Date   

Probiotics

elitehptrim
 

A nurse told me that if we give the horse vitamins or probiotics they loose the ability to do without these. I seriously doubt this. I would like other opions on this though. Thanks


Re: 3 questions (hay analysis, ODTB, feeding pill) #nirwetchem

ignatowski90 <ignatowski90@...>
 

I will call and find out how to go about that. I just seen the prices went up. Now the trainer is $54.00.

Brittany and Mikey
2012 WI


exercise for IR when lethargic?

karen sremac <karenclarinet@...>
 

I am confused. Exercise is good for IR. IR causes lethargy. So should I
walk trot and canter
For an hour or so? Mostly walk? So confused and concerned I didn't ride
past 2 days. I have time Tomorrow but not sat nor Sunday. I am a musician
and work on weekends. After that I could go back to daily, or nearly daily,
at minimum
of 1/2 hour, if that is recommended?

Also confused about alfalfa -only a pound or two to get pills and walk
between feeders. The problem I understood with alfalfa was possibly
footsore which he is not, thank goodness. How else does it cause problems
in some IR horses? Are untested grass hay pellets better? I bought a bag to
try...

Sorry. Someone just got me an ipad... and no, I don't know how to do much
on it. Since I'm always on the run,
I thought I could try to use it to communicate...
Karen and Serrano
Sept 2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Karen%20%26%20Serrano%20in%20Calif/
update is that he is now eating balancing minerals

Thank you so much !
Karen and Serrano sept 2012


Re: Lack of energy - now on minerals to balance hay etc

karen sremac <karenclarinet@...>
 

"...trim post..."

Sorry. Someone just got me an ipad... and no, I don't know how to do much
on it. Since I'm always on the run,
I thought I could try to use it to communicate . It stopped raining now,
and I'm confused if I should ride or not
anymore. I thought we were both a little out of shape and that we should
try to increase rides, but Serrano
just poops out. I guess I'll take him out today. Didn't get out last 2
days, and I won't have any time next 2 days after
today. After that I could go back to daily, or nearly daily, at minimum of
1/2 hour, if that is recommended.

Karen and Serrano
Sept 2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Karen%20%26%20Serrano%20in%20Calif/


Re: chaste tree berry

Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

The horse I need assistance with now, Euprhates, is a 16 1/2 yr. old warmblood. No problems till Nov., 2012 when he started to pee excessively. I KNOW that symptom from Cabby. Since the symptom began in late Fall, I didn't want to do any bloodwork at that time, so I just started on the Evitex at 60 ml. twice a day. The excess peeing stopped after 4 weeks, so I reduced the dose to maintenance, 60 ml once a day. The peeing started again after 4 days, so I went back to once a day. He's shown no more signs since Jan. 3.
I should add that he displays no other signs of IR. Coat is normal, no laminitis, super orbital fossi are normal, no fat deposits anywhere, no cresty neck.
Hi Dee,
Sorry that you need to be here again but glad we can continue to help. It would be really helpful if you would fill out a case history for Euphrates on the latest case history site ECHistory7:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/echistory7/

With the onset of symptoms in late fall and resolving in January, this sounds awfully suspicious for PPID with possible IR as well. Need to do bloodwork for sure. ACTH, insulin, glucose and leptin sent to Cornell with sample pulled form a NON-Fasting horse would be the way to go. Testing during the Fall would have been a way to know if this is only an early, seasonal issue. If the ACTH comes back normal now, I would definitely plan on retesting this coming fall - Aug/Sept to see if there is an exagerated seasonal issue that would warrant pergolide only during the seasonal rise.
As Nancy mentioned, the Evitex can work well to control outward symptoms but won't keep an elevated ACTH is check. It is not for dealing with IR. Evitex contains a standardized extract of CTB while the dried herb itself is a guessing game as far as strength of dose is concerned - it will vary from batch to batch as well.
In the meantime, I would definitely work on getting hay tested and minerals balanced. Soaking the hay until you know the ESC + Starch numbers are below 10% would be a good idea. That excess peeing is usually a heads-up that IR is an issue.

Would you sign your posts with your name, general location and year of joining (2004) and please delete most of the post you are replying to. With the list having grown as large as it has this all helps to keep things running more smoothly. Appreciate your help with this.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Riley in AZ Update - Case History Files Issue

ryslady
 

I seem to still be having issues uploading the update to Ri's files in
CH#6 Group, so maybe I need to be added to Group#7? In the mean time I
have uploaded the info in a folder in the Main Group photo folders:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/photos/album/925249494/pic/\;
list
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/photos/album/925249494/pic\;
/list>

I thought I had a folder in this group previously, but maybe I was
confusing that with the ECHoof group where I know I have a folder... So
many groups, so little time!

* Indi & Riley - who's Rockin' Rehab
* Cottonwood AZ 6/12


Re: chaste tree berry

Nancy C
 

Hi Dee

Here's a good message from the archives re: herb vs Evitex and where to start

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/79032>


Not sure about using it for suspected IR. There have been some narrative reports here but no real data. Will defer to Dr Kellon.

It will be helpful to have you fill out a Case History, especially going forward. Need to join ECHistory7

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory7/>

When it's done, put the link to your CH in your signature. Makes it hugely more easy for the volunteers.

Thanks for the reintroduction. I sure do remember you and Cabby and that you were so instrumental in pointing out seasonal rise.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...


Re: Update: have posted case history and xrays

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "dressagecoco" wrote:


Does anyone have any advice? Even just to say we are on the right track.
You're doing great with controlling him metabolically. An intake of 20 lbs soaked hay/day probably isn't enough to hold his ideal weight though, and protein intake could also be low.

Bone/hoof wall alignment looks good. Heels may still be able to come down a bit and personally I'd roll the toe to bring it back a bit. Looks like you have some medial-lateral imbalance.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: Radar - laminitic attack. HAY mixup. Soft Ride Question

mjlegault <mjlegault@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "taigabarks" wrote:

Hi Team
I hate to tell you the news, but Radar is in acute laminitic attack since Dec 15th. I was blaming the -40 c weather, warming his feet, legs, body and thinking it was reaction to cold, and also the dewormer. Little did I know the barn had given him a bale of hay that he isn't supposed to get - with higher NSCs than his great 8%er. FOUR weeks he ate this night and day! OMG. I noticed that even laminitic, he'd RUN to this hay, which clued me in. So the mixup sorted, back on his great mineral and NSC balanced diet. But I'm left with a horse back to almost founder and acute laminitis. My heart. We had gotten SO FAR this year. Full weight bearing, riding, cantering, no boots, tremendous health, pergolide and diet in balance and all.

We have increased his pergolide hoping this will help combat, a wee bit from 5 ml to 7.5 ml of 0.2 mg. We had been noticing his Cushing symptoms increasing December, cresty neck, fat deposits, laminitis, thirst. So we did that. We did emerg diet and increased mg. We are buting and booting. I have been so happy with our FUSION boots and homemade pads of various thicknesses over the year. HOWEVER I have been directed towards SOFT RIDE BOOTS to help Radar with this very acute attack. He cannot walk more than a few steps in boots even after two weeks of boots/bute. If I go ahead and buy these expensive boots, do you recommend I buy the purple / turq GEL pads, or just use the standard ones.

THANKS.
And ANY OTHER ADVICE would be welcomed. Also, is there a home for cushing horses near Calgary, Alberta ? Any dear heart out there wanting to help us house this most beautiful and worthy saddlebred, in his 20th year of life, while I continue rehabing. Looking for soft ground, people happy to control his diet, LOW STRESS environment for him and NO GRASS.

THANKS
Kelsey
Radar, Cochrane
Nov 2011
Hi Kelsey,

My mare foundered in april 2012, severe rotation, could not walk. I ordered the Soft Ride Boots and it gave her instant relief and she could walk again. I love those boots and to this day she still wear them.
If interested you can call Debbie, she is very helpful.
Good Luck Kelsey

Marie Josee
Morin-Heights / Canada
Sept. 2012


Re: New to feeding ODTB cubes

Chanda
 

If you are switching to an all cube diet, you might be figuring a bit low, as many horses need 2% (or more) of their body weight per day in feed to keep condition. the cost of the cubes is why many use them as a carrier or only part of the daily diet. But, yes, otherwise at 1.5% your math is right (I got $430/month at 41#/day). [If it helps, at $17.50/bag, that's $700/ton.] Don't forget, the cubes still need vit E, flax and salt to complete the diet.
How does that compare to how much it costs you each month to buy: hay (and have it tested - if you buy hay for the year, then you'll have to do a little math to figure out your monthly costs)), beet pulp (or whatever you are using for carrier), all your supplements to balance your hay and the flax, vit E and salt?
Chanda
MT 9/04

--- In EquineCushings@..., "kshanna92" wrote:

I want to make sure I'm figuring this correctly on the amount to feed. One horse is currently about 730 lb., would like to get her down to 700. Figuring 1.5 % body weight from the 700, 10.5 lb. of the cubes per day? Is that how I figure it?
Also, I have two other horses, one that is compensated IR. If I make the transition to ODTB cubes for them also and I use the 1.5% of body weight calculation for them, it comes to 14 lb. for one horse and 16.5 for the other. That comes to a total of 41 lb. per day. With a 50-lb. bag of the cubes and this calculation, I would be feeding almost a bag per day. I've been given a price of $17.50 for a 50-lb. bag (buying a pallet of 40 bags). All this calculates to about $500 each month?? Am I figuring this right?

Karen & Rianza & Glory & Smokey in Illinois
2007


Re: Vet reluctance to order pergolide

ryslady
 

Hi Lori, yes, my vet in California ordered compounded pergolide for me
once, then was directed by his boss not to do it again because the
compounded pergolide is not FDA approved/regulated/whatever blah, blah,
blah... Maybe you can call the compounding phamacy and ask if they have
the name & number for a vet in your area that prescribes the pergolide?
Worth a try.

* Indi & Riley - Rocking the Rehab
* Cottonwood, AZ 6/12


Re: Radar - laminitic attack. HAY mixup. Soft Ride Question

ryslady
 

Sorry, hit send before adding signature etc. Hopefully your guy will
start feeling better shortly.

* Indi & Riley - the TB Rehab SupaStar
* Cottonwood, AZ 6/12


--- In EquineCushings@..., "ryslady" wrote:


Re: Radar - laminitic attack. HAY mixup. Soft Ride Question

ryslady
 

I recently bought both the dual density and the plain turquoise - the
purple & turquoise are more firm (and I believe a little taller @ the
heel) at the heel and I think they tend to put them in a more toe down
position. After having used them both I prefer the more "neutral"
turquoise pads if I'm going to put them on.

A couple things to be aware of with SoftRides:

* the pads are quite heavy.
* If you've removed the frog support and the horse is twisting
(pivoting) on one or both front feet when turning (instead of lifting
the foot up and taking a step) the whole boot is likely to twist and end
up at odd angles.
* You can improve the fit by stuffing the heel, toe and sole with
sponges - we've been using the large car washing sponges that come in
different colors from Walmart. They are easy to cut/slice and cheap to
replace once they're crushed beyond use.
* You can also turn down the cuff at the back so that it doesn't rub
or put excess pressure on his pastern, fetlock etc. depending on your
horse's situation.
* I know the others on the list have removed the frog support when
there's been too much pressure on the frog, we also removed the lip at
the toe so that we could get his feet further into the boot and have
less heel bulb hanging off the back. My gelding has very odd shaped
feet.
*


New to feeding ODTB cubes

kshanna92
 

I have finally found a source for the ODTB cubes somewhat near my area (2 1/2 hours one way). I have tried searching the files & have found some posts, but want to make sure I'm figuring this correctly on the amount to feed. One horse is currently about 730 lb., would like to get her down to 700. Figuring 1.5 % body weight from the 700, 10.5 lb. of the cubes per day? Is that how I figure it?
Also, I have two other horses, one that is compensated IR. If I make the transition to ODTB cubes for them also and I use the 1.5% of body weight calculation for them, it comes to 14 lb. for one horse and 16.5 for the other. That comes to a total of 41 lb. per day. With a 50-lb. bag of the cubes and this calculation, I would be feeding almost a bag per day. I've been given a price of $17.50 for a 50-lb. bag (buying a pallet of 40 bags). All this calculates to about $500 each month?? Am I figuring this right?

Karen & Rianza & Glory & Smokey in Illinois
2007


Re: Radar - laminitic attack. HAY mixup. Soft Ride Question

kshanna92
 

"HOWEVER I have been directed towards SOFT RIDE BOOTS to help Radar with
this very acute attack. He cannot walk more than a few steps in boots
even after two weeks of boots/bute. If I go ahead and buy these
expensive boots, do you recommend I buy the purple / turq GEL pads, or
just use the standard ones."

   I'm going through laminitis issues too with my horse and I just purchased a pair of Soft Ride boots and put them on my mare yesterday.  Call Soft Ride and talk to one of their reps.  I spoke with a gentleman first and then also Debbie.  They are VERY helpful with sizing information and can help you decide on the gel pad.  I went with the turquoise myself to start out with.  My mare was kind of right on the edge with sizes, so they were kind enough to send me two sizes, only charging me for one, so I could try them both on her and return whichever one didn't work.   Good Luck and definitely hang in there.  I know I am. 

Karen & Rianza in Illinois
2007

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Lack of energy - now on minerals to balance hay etc

Lorna <briars@...>
 

Hi Karen,

Can you attach the case history link to your signature so we can see the whole picture?
With almost 11,000 members here it's hard to keep it all in our heads.Mine anyway.

Please remember to trim the old messages from your post before hitting Send.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


Re: Radar - laminitic attack. HAY mixup. Soft Ride Question

Lorna <briars@...>
 

Hi Kelsey,

We have increased his pergolide hoping this will help combat, a wee bit from 5ml to 7.5 ml of 0.2 mg. We had been noticing his Cushing symptoms increasing
December, cresty neck, fat deposits, laminitis, thirst.

It sounds like you're using the liquid pergolide.If Radar were mine I would go to the capsules.The liquid has stability issues.

Can you attach his case history link to your signature when you post so that we can review it?

Sorry about this setback.
Hang in.It's really tough.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


Re: Lack of energy - now on minerals to balance hay etc

Kc <karenclarinet@...>
 

I am confused. Exercise is good for IR. IR causes lethargy. So should I walk trot and canter
For an hour or so? Mostly walk? So confused and concerned I didn't ride past 2 days. I have time Tomorrow but not sat nor Sunday. I am a musician and work on weekends.

Also confused about alfalfa -only a pound or two to get pills and walk between feeders. The problem I understood with alfalfa was possibly footsore which he is not, thank goodness. How else does it cause problems in some IR horses? Is untested grass hay pellets better?

Thank you so much !
Karen and Serrano sept 2012

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 24, 2013, at 7:00 AM, "plwoodbury" <DesertHorses@...> wrote:

Hi Karen ~
I understand the dilemma in trying to get meds in - just be aware that many IR horses are very sensitive to even small amounts of alfalfa. If he likes Timothy pellets/hay that might be a better choice.

If you're close to sixty days from the last pergolide increase (in November, right?), yes - go ahead and retest. Make sure the "timing" is right - either before his concentrate meal (but with normal hay available all night, not fasting) or at least 4 hours after a concentrate meal.

You can get Jiaogulan from http://www.mybesthorse.com/productinformation/jiaogulan.html
It works best if you can give it twenty minutes or so before meals (I've mixed it in a small amount of moistened beet pulp and flax and my horses lapped it up while I did chores).

APF http://www.auburnlabs.com/html/eqAPF.html
Thriving pets seems to have the best prices http://www.thrivingpets.com/index.php/apf-advanced-protection-formula.html
I don't have personal experience using APF but you can just put a few mL from the dropper on the feed.

Patti Woodbury Kuvik
Vail AZ 2001
EC Support Team

--- In EquineCushings@..., karen sremac wrote:

Thank you Patti!
I will try to answer & explain my situation, and maybe you will have
suggestions?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Update: have posted case history and xrays

dressagecoco
 

Does anyone have any advice? Even just to say we are on the right track.

Louise and special
Fife, Scotland
Nov 2012

--- In EquineCushings@..., "dressagecoco" wrote:

I first posted in Nov 2012 after my boy had been diagnosed with EMS. I have finally managed to post my case history and xrays (well hopefully I have).

It should be here

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Louise%20and%20Special/

Any advice would be great!

Louise and Special
Fife, Scotland
Nov 2012


Re: Vet reluctance to order pergolide

Linda <PapBallou@...>
 

.  She nicely told me that my horse must have done better on the compounded pergolide, b/c the dose was inaccurate and she was probably getting a higher dose on the compounded.


Oh my! Now that's a new one! The reason behind the development of Prascend was in part due to the supposed instability of compounded...being lower than dispensed dose.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004

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