Date   

Re: Results from the Emergency Diet

palomino.1982 <palomino.1982@...>
 

Hi Marie Josee,

Great news for you and your girl!!

When you get the hay analysis, you will start on another journey...
having the hay balanced with necessary minerals.

The journey is priceless and wonderful seeing our horses bloom!

Susan
EC Primary Response
San Diego 1.07

--------------------------------------------------


My question : Is it possible that after only one week of been on the Emergency Diet, the result are already there and that is the reason why she is much better?


Im so HAPPY...Equi-Analytical told me I should have the result by next wednesday and hopefully someone from the group can help me to balance Cashmere diet.


Re: Radar - laminitic attack. HAY mixup. Soft Ride Question

taigabarks
 

Hi Lorna
Thanks. We haven't gone to capsules yet, but are working on it. Trying to determine his dosage right now.

I am not sure where to find Radar's history and all his photos now!! I think it was EC4 or 3.
Can you help me?

THANKS.
Kelsey
Cochrane, AB
RADAR
Nov 2011

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Lorna" wrote:

Hi Kelsey,

We have increased his pergolide hoping this will help combat, a wee bit from 5ml to 7.5 ml of 0.2 mg. We had been noticing his Cushing symptoms increasing
December, cresty neck, fat deposits, laminitis, thirst.

It sounds like you're using the liquid pergolide.If Radar were mine I would go to the capsules.The liquid has stability issues.

Can you attach his case history link to your signature when you post so that we can review it?

Sorry about this setback.
Hang in.It's really tough.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


Re: Results from the Emergency Diet

Lorna <briars@...>
 

It's been one week on the Emergency Diet and her feet are great. No heat at all, pulse is harder to find. And for the last week the weather here has been -4 degrees fahrenheit during the day....

Way to GO, Josee Marie!!

Happy dance for Cashmere. And you!


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


Re: Results from the Emergency Diet

mjlegault <mjlegault@...>
 

Wonderful news! And yes, changing the diet can, and usually does bring about observable changes very quickly.
Linda
Wow is that amazing, just after one week...
I am so grateful for this group and pray too god that Cashmere
continues to get better :)
Thank You
Marie Josee
Morin-Heights / Canada
Sept.2012


Re: Results from the Emergency Diet

Linda <PapBallou@...>
 

Hi!

Wonderful news! And yes, changing the diet can, and usually does bring about observable changes very quickly. I'm working with a friend whose horse felt hugely better after just three meals of soaked hay.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Results from the Emergency Diet

mjlegault <mjlegault@...>
 

Hi to all,
My mare has been on the Emergency Diet for 1 week (waiting for hay analysis from Equi-Analytical).
Before we started the Emergency Diet she was doing ok except at night she would have slightly warm hoofs and the pulse was more easily detectable. It bother me and I knew she wasn't stabilize.

It's been one week on the Emergency Diet and her feet are great. No heat at all, pulse is harder to find. And for the last week the weather here has been -4 degrees fahrenheit during the day....

My question : Is it possible that after only one week of been on the Emergency Diet, the result are already there and that is the reason why she is much better?

Im so HAPPY...Equi-Analytical told me I should have the result by next wednesday and hopefully someone from the group can help me to balance Cashmere diet.

Thank you so much for precious advises

Marie Josee
Morin-Heights / Canada
Sept. 2012


Re: exercise for IR when lethargic?

Teri
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., karen sremac wrote:

Will
try grass pellets instead of alfalfa
tonight, and see if he eats his pills...

My little 'picky princess' pony wasn't thrilled with Standlee's Timothy pellets, but she LOVED their Orchard Grass pellets. If your horse isn't crazy about the Timothy he might go for the Orchard grass.

Stormy has severe IR and the group advised me to stop giving them to her in case they were too high in s/s for her.
I'll leave it to the experts to advise if they would be safe for your horse.

Teri and Stormy
IN 4-2012


Re: chaste tree berry

mileslie <Mileslie@...>
 

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: Lavinia <dnlf@...>
Date:
To: EquineCushings@...
Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: chaste tree berry


The horse I need assistance with now, Euprhates, is a 16 1/2 yr. old warmblood. No problems till Nov., 2012 when he started to pee excessively. I KNOW that symptom from Cabby. Since the symptom began in late Fall, I didn't want to do any bloodwork at that time, so I just started on the Evitex at 60 ml. twice a day. The excess peeing stopped after 4 weeks, so I reduced the dose to maintenance, 60 ml once a day. The peeing started again after 4 days, so I went back to once a day. He's shown no more signs since Jan. 3.
I should add that he displays no other signs of IR. Coat is normal, no laminitis, super orbital fossi are normal, no fat deposits anywhere, no cresty neck.
Hi Dee,
Sorry that you need to be here again but glad we can continue to help. It would be really helpful if you would fill out a case history for Euphrates on the latest case history site ECHistory7:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/echistory7/

With the onset of symptoms in late fall and resolving in January, this sounds awfully suspicious for PPID with possible IR as well. Need to do bloodwork for sure. ACTH, insulin, glucose and leptin sent to Cornell with sample pulled form a NON-Fasting horse would be the way to go. Testing during the Fall would have been a way to know if this is only an early, seasonal issue. If the ACTH comes back normal now, I would definitely plan on retesting this coming fall - Aug/Sept to see if there is an exagerated seasonal issue that would warrant pergolide only during the seasonal rise.
As Nancy mentioned, the Evitex can work well to control outward symptoms but won't keep an elevated ACTH is check. It is not for dealing with IR. Evitex contains a standardized extract of CTB while the dried herb itself is a guessing game as far as strength of dose is concerned - it will vary from batch to batch as well.
In the meantime, I would definitely work on getting hay tested and minerals balanced. Soaking the hay until you know the ESC + Starch numbers are below 10% would be a good idea. That excess peeing is usually a heads-up that IR is an issue.

Would you sign your posts with your name, general location and year of joining (2004) and please delete most of the post you are replying to. With the list having grown as large as it has this all helps to keep things running more smoothly. Appreciate your help with this.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


doxycycline trial -- request to Dr. Kellon

kshanna92
 

In discussion of issues I'm dealing with re my mare, Rianza, one of the things you mentioned was speaking to my vet about a trial of doxycycline for possible tick borne complications. I brought this up to my local vet, but was told they absolutely didn't think this was necessary -- in other words, not agreeing to prescribe. Any "ammunition" or information you can give me to try and persuade otherwise??

Karen & Rianza in Illinois
2007
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Rianza%20%26%20Karen%20in%20Illinois/


Re: Alfalfa stems bad?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "luvmyapbt" wrote:

Hello all,

I was wondering if alfalfa stems, stripped of the leaves, are also bad for IR horses?
We don't know enough about the issue with alfalfa and some horses to really answer that for sure but members in the past have fed stems or old/stemmy alfalfa with no problem.

I would suggest don't obsess about these left over stems but keep a close eye on your horse for any indication they are causing a problem.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: Probiotics

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "elitehptrim" wrote:

A nurse told me that if we give the horse vitamins or probiotics they loose the ability to do without these. I seriously doubt this. I would like other opions on this though. Thanks
Nope. Absolutely not true.

Probiotics are live bacteria that are believed (but not often proven) to have positive health benefits. When you put bacteria into an intestinal tract or a culture dish, their survival depends on whether they have enough food specific for their needs, and other factors that would not inhibit their growth and survival, like pH.

Foals populate their sterile guts at birth with everything their mouth touches - from dirt and manure to mom's body and teats. Horses continue throughout their lifetime to come in contact with surfaces with bacteria (virtually everything) and retain the ones that can flourish in their intestinal tract. They don't need a supplement source.

Vitamins come from both diet and those synthesized inside the gut by bacteria. Supplementing them doesn't change that. There can be vitamins that always need to be supplemented because their level is inadequate, but supplementing those vitamins doesn't change how much they use from other sources.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: 3 questions (hay analysis, ODTB, feeding pill) #nirwetchem

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "ignatowski90" wrote:

I called and the lady told me there is no difference.
The AOAC, background here:

http://www.aoac.org/about/aoac.htm

sets the internationally accepted standards for **validated** testing methods for forage testing. NIR is not an accepted method for sugar or starch:

http://www.aoac.org/omarev1/948_02.pdf

http://www.aoac.org/omarev1/988_12.pdf

The AOAC does give guidance information for NIR for minerals, but it is recognized the error may be as high as 17%.

Also note that NFTA certification (Dairy One's certifying body) does not include sugar or starch, by any method:

http://www.foragetesting.org/files/2013SignupForms.pdf

=================

The bottom line take home message here is that when you need information on the validity of some statement, go to an independent source.

NIR determinations are estimates only, not measurements. They are not as accurate as direct measurement of sugar and starch. If the lady can prove differently, she needs to present the studies that show it or their data in detail. Your horse's welfare depends on it.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: exercise for IR when lethargic?

karen sremac <karenclarinet@...>
 

"...Our horses are like any other in that they need to be built up slowly.
There are more considerations for PPID/IR horses. Here's a link to a good
message Jaini did on this subject.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/164481>

Alfalfa raises insulin in some horses. Insulin is what you need to worry
about. Insulin attacks the feet...."

Thank you for this! That helps clarify things in my overwhelmed head. Will
try grass pellets instead of alfalfa
tonight, and see if he eats his pills...

Am I right that I have to retest ACTH again now? Or wait on that? Last test
Nov 19.


http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Karen%20%26%20Serrano%20in%20Calif/
update is that he is now eating balancing minerals

Thank you so much !
Karen and Serrano sept 2012


Alfalfa stems bad?

 

Hello all,

I was wondering if alfalfa stems, stripped of the leaves, are also bad for IR horses? My gelding is IR and I put him in his "diet pen" for his meals, and then feed my hard-keeper mare in the big pasture. She gets some alfalfa along with the tested orchard grass that my gelding gets. Problem is that she is picky and will often times leave some of the alfalfa stems laying around - they make a small pile if I rake them up together. I let my gelding out after meals to join her in the pasture (dry lot) and have been trying to pick up all the stems before I let him out...but is it necessary? Seems like all the bad stuff might be in the leaves..? I'd sure love to not have to rake and pick up my mare's cast offs. :)

Thanks,
Jennifer & Shahtahr
Clovis, CA 2012


Re: Probiotics

Nancy C
 

Hi Linda

It is Linda, right?

I'm with you. Again, not from opinion, from tons of work done here based in science.

Please help us run things more smoothly by signing your name, general location and date of joining the group (2010)

Thank you!

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., "elitehptrim" wrote:

A nurse told me that if we give the horse vitamins or probiotics they loose the ability to do without these. I seriously doubt this. I would like other opions on this though. Thanks


Re: exercise for IR when lethargic?

Nancy C
 

Hi Karen

Our horses are like any other in that they need to be built up slowly. There are more considerations for PPID/IR horses. Here's a link to a good message Jaini did on this subject.

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/164481>

Alfalfa raises insulin in some horses. Insulin is what you need to worry about. Insulin attacks the feet.

Will say again as we've been saying since September - stop the Transfer Factor.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., karen sremac wrote:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Karen%20%26%20Serrano%20in%20Calif/
update is that he is now eating balancing minerals

Thank you so much !
Karen and Serrano sept 2012


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 3 questions (hay analysis, ODTB, feeding pill) #nirwetchem

Nancy C
 

Hi Brittany

Need to clarify we don't work from opinion here, but from the facts as we know them from science and going on 14 years of doing this work.

Go to the Equi-Analytical web site

<http://www.equi-analytical.com/>

Go to the "Services" window and download the sample information sheet

You want a CUSTOM PACKAGE (not 644). Go to page two. Check off

(154) Ethanol Soluble Carbohydrates (ESC) $10.00

and

(34) Starch $11.00

You will note on page one there is an additional fee of $7.00. Total will be $28.00

Good luck!

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...


Re: 3 questions (hay analysis, ODTB, feeding pill) #nirwetchem

ignatowski90 <ignatowski90@...>
 

I called and the lady told me there is no difference. I explained what everyone has told me and she said no. What test do I do to just test the esc and sugar. Is it 644? There is so many diffrent opnions.

Brittany and Mikey
2012 WI


Probiotics

elitehptrim
 

A nurse told me that if we give the horse vitamins or probiotics they loose the ability to do without these. I seriously doubt this. I would like other opions on this though. Thanks


Re: 3 questions (hay analysis, ODTB, feeding pill) #nirwetchem

ignatowski90 <ignatowski90@...>
 

I will call and find out how to go about that. I just seen the prices went up. Now the trainer is $54.00.

Brittany and Mikey
2012 WI

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