Date   

Easy Care Rx Boots

lorisurina@ymail.com <JABASKA@...>
 

I'm considering different boots for Majik. He's been in Deltas which are too big now. Thanks to Patti Kuvik's generosity, Majik was able to try Soft Rides but the pads are just too heavy. I'm considering Easy Care Rx Bootsas they're light weight and come up just below the fetlock (which will help to keep out dirt). It's obvious they won't hold up like the Delta which is a very solid trail boot, but since Majik's just hangin around, and they're lighter weight, I thought they'd be worth a try. I'd like to hear the opinion of others who've used these boots.

Lori Surina (Majik)
Tucson, AZ
12/12


Re: doxycycline trial -- request to Dr. Kellon

kshanna92
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., Lesley Fraser wrote:
I'm not a vet, I'm a person with chronic Lyme. I wondered if some of these links might of interest too.
Thanks for the links.  Definitely interesting information to have and will be sharing with my local vet.

Karen & Rianza in Illinois
2007


Re: WAS:Baileys LoCal Balancer & Dengie HI FI Lite/NOW: Weeping crud

 

Karen ~

You've started minerals and eliminated the alfalfa. Why not give that a chance to work first, keep the scheduled testing date and see if these changes are effective before jumping into yet another change.
If you increase the Prascend dosage now, you won't know which action caused a change or improvement. I would just keep the testing date you already have scheduled.

Patti Woodbury Kuvik
Vail AZ 2001
EC Support Team

That and the eye weeping... Serrano has it, just like September.
Should I increase the Prascend (how much?) or must I test first?
Many thanks,
Karen and SErrano Sept 2012


Re: 3 questions (hay analysis, ODTB, feeding pill) #nirwetchem

Elva J Mico
 

On 1/26/2013 3:14 PM, drkellon wrote:
I just got a message from Aurelio today that said they are having
trouble integrating the salt into the balancing mineral mix so for
the time being you need to add salt (but not iodine) separately.
I thought with the ODTB cubes we had to add 2 tablespoons of iodized salt, and 2 tablespoons of ground flax? Is that incorrect?

Elva and Angel Satin
NM/2004

--
Elva
I was a dancer. One night at a gypsy camp, I drank a potion meant for
another and lost my heart to a horse named Satin.


Re: 3 questions (hay analysis, ODTB, feeding pill) #nirwetchem

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "mary.clements@..." wrote:

Question do I need to add salt if they are only fed the ODTB cubes? I do Have white salt licks out for them.
I just got a message from Aurelio today that said they are having trouble integrating the salt into the balancing mineral mix so for the time being you need to add salt (but not iodine) separately.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: doxycycline trial -- request to Dr. Kellon

Lesley Fraser
 

Oh! Thank you for the information Dr Kellon.

Doxycycline seems to trigger encysted forms when it's used in human treatment. Another complication in humans is the biofilm defence that spirochetes create - I don't know if equine Lyme infections develop in a similar way, though. Eva Sapi is doing some interesting work in these (human) areas at the moment, which you may have come across.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Sapi%20E%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=21753890
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Biofilm Formation by Borrelia burgdorferi In Vitro#

I wonder how many different forms of borrelia are out there. The human Lyme tests used in the UK are fairly insensitive and miss a high percentage of Lyme infections, even for standard forms of borrelia. It's quite common for people over here to have their blood shipped to specialist US labs, as these tests seem to be much better at picking up signs of infection than the UK ones.

Lesley & Omar
UK, Dec 2012


On 26 Jan 2013, at 13:06, drkellon wrote:

Helpful, Lesley, thank you.
I actually wrote the second article, but do not endorse the links to products that are embedded in it now. They weren't in the original article.

Other considerations are that Lyme can exist in an encysted form that will not trigger the usual antibodies and human studies are now finding other forms of Borellia in ticks which cannot be detected by available tests.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: WAS:Baileys LoCal Balancer & Dengie HI FI Lite/NOW: Weeping crud

karen sremac <karenclarinet@...>
 

"...Here is a list of symptoms that a PPID horse may have:

Lethargy

Muscle loss, often most noticeable across the topline..."

That and the eye weeping... Serrano has it, just like September.
Should I increase the Prascend (how much?) or must I test first?
Many thanks,
Karen and SErrano Sept 2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Karen%20%26%20Serrano%20in%20Calif/
update is that he is now eating balancing minerals


WAS:Baileys LoCal Balancer & Dengie HI FI Lite/NOW: Weeping crud

palomino.1982 <palomino.1982@...>
 

Hi Sara,

Here is a list of symptoms that a PPID horse may have:

Lethargy

Muscle loss, often most noticeable across the topline

Weight loss and pot belly appearance are common and may be seen with
patchy fat deposits developing in the neck and around the tail head

Excessive drinking and urination

Laminitis often occurring in the Fall

Either excessive sweating (hyperhidrosis) or failure to sweat (anhidrosis)

Skin darkening, often with thickening and scaling

Increased susceptibility to infections

Poor resistance to internal parasites

Development of allergies and hypersensitivities (e.g. vaccinations,
flies)

Infertility

Slow spring shedding with long, coarse & sometimes curly coat with
failure to shed completely occurring in advanced cases


Susan
E Primary Response
San Diego 1.07
-----------------------------------------------------------




Does anyone know if weeping crud,from the eyes is a a sign of cushings


Re: New Diagnosis- Baileys LoCal Balancer & Dengie HI FI Lite

Lorna <briars@...>
 

..... but as it contains alfalfa and the group does not recommend alfalfa, I am too am a bit confused, especially as it is approved by the laminitis trust.

Hi Rebecca,

Please take another second before hitting Send and delete the old messages from your new one,in the future.


Not all of our horses have a reaction to alfalfa but some do.Enough cases have been mentioned of foot soreness/heat that we need to keep it high on the list of items to watch out for.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


Re: New Diagnosis- Baileys LoCal Balancer & Dengie HI FI Lite

Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

Hi Sarah,
The weeping/runny eyes can be either PPID(Cushings) or IR. Do you have a case history up for Jenny yet? I'm trying to remember if there has been bloodwork done on her.
The Liquiflex supplement you were considering for her stiffness issues would NOT be suitable for an IR horse as it has a sugary base (dextrose) and contains MSM and vit C. All of these are contra-indicated for IR.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: WAS New Diagnosis- Baileys LoCal Balancer & Dengie HI FI Lite/NOW weeping eye crud

Maggie
 

And SOMEWHERE there is a great list of other Cushing's symptoms. I am searching the messages unsuccessfully for it, and if I find it I will post it
Found it!  http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/111988

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


Re: WAS New Diagnosis- Baileys LoCal Balancer & Dengie HI FI Lite/NOW weeping eye crud

Maggie
 

Does anyone know if weeping crud,from the eyes is a a sign of cushings

Yes, it is.  And SOMEWHERE there is a great list of other Cushing's symptoms.  I am searching the messages unsuccessfully for it, and if I find it I will post it.  Anybody else know where it is?

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 3 questions (hay analysis, ODTB, feeding pill) #nirwetchem

mary.clements@rocketmail.com <mary.clements@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "drkellon" wrote:


No need to add mag. They also have a maintenance level of salt.


Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001
Question do I need to add salt if they are only fed the ODTB cubes? I do Have white salt licks out for them.
Mary and Darlin' Dixie in Mo.
12/11


Re: doxycycline trial -- request to Dr. Kellon

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., Lesley Fraser wrote:

Hi Karen

I'm not a vet, I'm a person with chronic Lyme. I wondered if some of these links might of interest too.

http://liphookequinehospital.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/LymeDiseaseinHorses.pdf

http://www.equisearch.com/uncategorized/lyme-disease-horses-requires-health-treatment/

http://www.bada-uk.org/petsproblems/pet-diseases/borreliosishorses.php

http://thelaminitissite.org
Helpful, Lesley, thank you.

I actually wrote the second article, but do not endorse the links to products that are embedded in it now. They weren't in the original article.

Other considerations are that Lyme can exist in an encysted form that will not trigger the usual antibodies and human studies are now finding other forms of Borellia in ticks which cannot be detected by available tests.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: Mineral Balancing - Scarlet and Little Red (2nd Posting)

Mandy Woods
 

Hi Diane,
Welcome to the group. The list philosophy is DDT/E.

DIAGNOSIS is by bloodwork. To confirm Cushings aka PPID, you would need an eACTH test. Cushings is controlled by the drug pergolide. To confirm IR ~ you need Insulin/Glucose/Leptin on a NON fasting horse with the samples sent to Cornell. You will know how severely IR the girls are. IR is managed by DIET.

DIET is low sugar/starch forage with minerals balanced to its assay. The minerals for this Diet can be purchased at Walmart or any drugstore. Get Vitamin E natural and feed her 2000ius a day. Get the gel cap that has soy oil in it. It’s a very low amount. This vitamin is excellent for oxidative stress. Then add magnesium, Freshly ground flax and loose iodized table salt. The recipe is in the Start Here file. Pull her off pasture no matter how deep the snow is. Horses paw the snow away to get to the tasty sweet roots. You don’t know how much or little sugar she gets that could make her foot sore That can be a critical factor. We've had horses turn around in days. You can double the smhn's to really slow her eating down thus reducing the chance of an insulin spike. Feed at least 4 meals a day. Yes, your water could be high iron. Send a sample to www.dairyone.com I’m pretty sure they test water too.

TRIM is a balanced foot with toes backed from the top and heels lowered. Boots/pads if foot sore.
EXERCISE is a great way to reduce IR. Let the mares tell you what they can handle. Handwalking is great - long straight lines - sweeping curves so you don’t put any pressure on the walls. No pivoting. Never force a laminitic horse to move. They'll tell you what they can handle.


Diane, IF you ordered the Trainer at EA # 603 you don’t need to soak your hay. If you paid for any other test (601) I would do it over. There could be a big difference in the results.

I would blood test both mares for IR but you can manage that by DIET balancing!

There is a file with a list of ladies that help with balancing. I cant think of the name right now but maybe one of them will email you.

Thank you for being so up to date with your signature and testing! IT is appreciated!

Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003


Re: Mineral Balancing - Scarlet and Little Red (2nd Posting)

Maggie
 

I joined in November 2012 and am posting for the first time.  My two 10-year-old BLM-adopted Mustang mares (Scarlet and Little Red) were visually diagnosed as insulin resistant late last summer/fall, when Scarlet experienced an episode of laminitis.


Hi Diane,



Welcome!  Sorry we missed you the first time around.  Good to repost if you don't hear back within a couple of days.  Great that you got your CH's done on both of your horses!  And great job on your signature--thanks for the link!  Looks like you've been doing some reading already, but I will give you the details of this group's philosophy and answer your questions.  The groups' philosophy is DDT+E.  That's Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

 

Diagnosis:  Both of your mares are approaching 10 years of this year, which is when we really start to get concerned about PPID.  It's not unheard off under 10, just not as common as in horses over 10.  The reason that making the diagnosis is so important is that the treatment for insulin resistance (IR) and PPID (Cushing's) is different, IR being treated with DIET, and PPID being treated with medicine(pergolide), and a combination diagnosis of IR and PPID treated with both diet and pergolide.  You state in your CH that they both have an aversion to needles.  How do you sedate them to do their feet?  Could you get labs drawn while they are sedated for that?  The labs we recommend to make the correct diagnosis are ACTH, insulin, glucose and leptin sent to Cornell.  The labs require special handling, so have a read here for the details:  http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-diagnosis   There's LOTS of great information on that site, so more reading :)

 

Diet:  I see that you have your hay analysis and the sugar + starch is great at 3.5+1.1=4.6, so no you do not need to soak! The Nutrena Empower Balance has 8%starch and 6%sugar, so that's not a safe feed for IR horses.  There are some other safer feeds that you can use as a carrier or taste temper.  One is Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes (ODTB's).  You can add warm water to them to fluff them up and then add your minerals. You can also prepare r/s/r beet pulp in larger quantities and store in little baggies in your freezer for your sitter's use when you are traveling.  Are you adding the emergency minerals?  They are:

Iodized salt - 1 to 2 oz. a day (approximately 1 to 2 heaping Tablespoons,

Magnesium 1.5 grams/day per 500 lbs body weight,

Vitamin E 1000 IU/day per 500 lbs body weight (human supplement may be easiest, i.e. soft gel caps added to beet pulp)  and 

2-4 oz fresh ground flax seed or use stabilized flax

You should be using these until one of the hay gurus can balance your hay for you.  Have you tried to contact anyone yet to do that?  There's a list of members that do the balancing in the files.  Look here: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/7%20Help%20with%20Mineral%20Balancing/   It's the 4th file down.  Great that you already got your water analyzed.  They can take that into consideration when doing your balancing. 

You should not be letting them graze, snow or no snow.  The occasional peanut is OK, but no apples, carrots or sugary treats.  The ODTB's make great treats too! You removed the red salt blocks. We recommend that you provide plain white ones in addition to the loose salt that you add to their carrier.



Trim:  This is an extremely important part of the program and often the last thing to fall into place.  A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof casule closely hugs the coffin bone. You mentioned in Little Red's CH that she doesn't "self trim" any longer.  Domestic horses RARELY get enough exercise to self trim, like the wild mustangs do.  If you can join ECHoof, one of our sister sites, you can post pictures of Little Red's and Scarlet's feet and one of the hoof gurus can take a look and see if you have a proper trim in place. Once you join, look for the file on how to take good hoof pics.



Exercise:  The BEST IR buster there is!  But a laminitic horse should never be forced to move.  If they are able, you can hand walk in long straight lines with no tight turns.  It takes committment too hand walk them, or work them in the round pen (if they are able) everyday, but if they are "pasture ornaments" like stated in your CH, they are not getting enough exercise to help beat IR!



You'll surely have lots more questions as you make this transition to a new way to manage your horses.  Just ask!  We are here to help you help them! 

 
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: New Diagnosis- Baileys LoCal Balancer & Dengie HI FI Lite

Rebecca Marment <r_marment@...>
 

Hi Sarah

I feed my boy Dengie HiFi Lite which I was told to feed by my vet. In the UK the feed of choice seems to be HiFi Lite for horses with laminitis. My boy seems to be doing ok on it, but as it contains alfalfa and the group does not recommend alfalfa, I am too am a bit confused, especially as it is approved by the laminitis trust. I was going to swap him to the molsasses free one, but then noticed that this feed contains 6.5% soya oil, whereas the lite is only 1.5%. I am trying to keep my boy at the weight he is, so think (but could be wrong) that I will be increasing his calories by feeding the molasses free. The molasses free is also higher in digestible energy.

Why are feeds so difficult!?

Rebecca and Hutch
United Kingdom
September 2012

-----Original Message-----
From: zoma
Sent: 26/01/2013 03:08
Subject: Re: [EquineCushings] New Diagnosis- Baileys LoCal Balancer & Dengie HI FI Lite

-----Original Message-----
From: sezzie22
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 6:44 AM
To: EquineCushings@...
Subject: [EquineCushings] New Diagnosis- Baileys LoCal Balancer & Dengie HI
FI Lite

Hi All,

I am very new here so apologise in advance if I am doing this incorrectly!!!

I will upload a case history as soon as possible but will give some
background information here first!

My 22/23 year old Irish Sport Horse Jenny has recently been diagnosed
(bloods confirmed 2 weeks ago) with Cushings.
Up until rencently she was in a loan home (due to my financial constraints)
and when I went to visit in early November noticed a number of things which
led me to believe she was beginning to show symptoms of Cushings.
As such I now have her in a local Stables boarding.

She is over weight with a compromised immune system (WBC 2.4 (should be
between 7-9) and platelets at 58 (170-190 range) These results are from her
initial bloods I had carried out in NOvember which produced a FALSE NEGATIVE
in relation to her cushings.
I did however immediately put her on a low starch low sugar soaked hay diet
as i felt sure this was a false result.
SHe is currently on Dengie HiFI LITE and Baileys Lo-CAL Balancer twice daily
as a feed and soaked hay. She is turned out daily in the sand ring with HI
FI LITE to nibble on.

She has suffered with a bad foot abscess in November (at the time the bloods
were taken) but she was fully sound until last week again when she lamed
again having been shod 2 days before.

Does anybody know if these feeds are ok for her??! I read the Emergency Diet
file but I am concerned about giving her Beetpulp as in my head as she is so
overweight (left out to grass with no restriction in loan home......)it may
not be suitable for her??

She has lost weight- but still has a significant belly which i know is also
a symptom of cushings also......I do hand walk her in the arena a few times
a week but as she is lame again it is difficult for me to help her lose
weight whilst being recurrently lame! Vet has said this is not a laminitic
situation. I feel it may be a recurring abscess and we are in works to get
this out via both Vet and Master farrier.

She is also quite stiff the poor old lady and I would like to commence her
on a joint supplement to help her be more comfortable and have found one
available with no glucosamine

http://www.copa-ireland.com/Liquiflex.html
Your opinion would be much appreciated in this as I am reading so much
information in relation to conflicting information about what is safe and
not safe for her I have confused myself!!!
The vet has commenced her on a herbal alternative for the cushings called
ACTH & Quercus Robur I have found limited clinical research in relation to
this but did find this particular paper with results:

http://www.bahvs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Cushings-Research.pdf

She has now been on this diet since November and the ACTH & Quercus Robur
for 2.5 weeks.

Could anyone please steer me in the correct direction in relation to what I
should be supplementing her with? Vitamin E Magnesium Oxide Flax etc? Should
I move her to the Emergency Diet components? Can I give her a supplement for
her joints as linked above??

Please help as a newbie I am literally drowning in a sea of information!!

your help would be hugely appreciated.

Sarah & Jenny
IRELAND
Diagnosed January 2013



[The entire original message is not included.]


Re: NIR vs. Wet Chemistry Hay Tests: Was 3 questions (hay analysis

Lorna <briars@...>
 

Thanks for this,Sally.
Saving money is especially important when we are caring for horses who have so many needs.But obviously we have to pay attention to the details,so that our savings don't end up hurting the ones we are trying to help.

Good for you for double checking those numbers.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

My hay grower travels to find low sugar grass hay every year. He sends the samples to Equi-analytical, and for the sake of economy and fast results he has always used #601 (equi-tech) which uses NIR for sugars and starch. He was very happy to find some nice looking hay that tested 1.1% ESC and .2% starch. I didn't think that looked right, so I asked him to have the lab retest the sample using wet chemistry. The results with wet chemistry came back as 6.6% ESC and .3% starch. That's over 5% difference in ESC.


Re: doxycycline trial -- request to Dr. Kellon

Lesley Fraser
 

On 25 Jan 2013, at 20:51, kshanna92 wrote:

In discussion of issues I'm dealing with re my mare, Rianza, one of the things you mentioned was speaking to my vet about a trial of doxycycline for possible tick borne complications. I brought this up to my local vet, but was told they absolutely didn't think this was necessary -- in other words, not agreeing to prescribe. Any "ammunition" or information you can give me to try and persuade otherwise??

Karen & Rianza in Illinois
2007
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Rianza%20%26%20Karen%20in%20Illinois/


Re: 3 questions (hay analysis, ODTB, feeding pill) #nirwetchem

Sally Hugg
 

Just wanted to share our experience with NIR vs wet chemistry testing for ESC/starch last summer.

My hay grower travels to find low sugar grass hay every year. He sends the samples to Equi-analytical, and for the sake of economy and fast results he has always used #601 (equi-tech) which uses NIR for sugars and starch. He was very happy to find some nice looking hay that tested 1.1% ESC and .2% starch. I didn't think that looked right, so I asked him to have the lab retest the sample using wet chemistry. The results with wet chemistry came back as 6.6% ESC and .3% starch. That's over 5% difference in ESC. From now on, we will be using wet chemistry to make our final selections on which hay to buy.

Sally Hugg
N. California
2003

--- In EquineCushings@..., "drkellon" wrote:

NIR determinations are estimates only, not measurements. They are not as accurate as direct measurement of sugar and starch. If the lady can prove differently, she needs to present the studies that show it or their data in detail. Your horse's welfare depends on it.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001

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