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Re: Question about Equi-Analytical lab tests

meg_findhorse
 

Thanks. Knowing to use keyword NIR also helps me be able to go through the archives.

Meg


Re: Question about Equi-Analytical lab tests

Lorna <briars@...>
 

Hi Meg,

Looking at Equi-Analytical lab tests and that group says to use test #603. I'm curious why not use the other test that is cheaper?
The other test is NIR.

Here's a message from Sally,which is a good reason to use the wet chemistry,603 :

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/175919

Here's another message from Dr. Kellon:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/171056


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


Re: New test results: ACTH increased

Bonnie
 

I was asked what kind of compounded product I'm using.

Sorry: should have specified. I am using capsules from Island Pharmacy in B.C. Canada. Have been keeping the pill bottles inside a sealed plastic container at room temperature.

Each morning I put the required dose into a ziplock bag, then into a sealed plastic jar. It sits in the barn (temp. approximately 40 F) until the 5 PM feed. Capsules are placed in a peanut shell, handed to Lad. I watch to make sure they don't get dropped.

Is this appropriate care?

Bonnie Ivey, Ontario 12/08


Question about Equi-Analytical lab tests

meg_findhorse
 

Looking at Equi-Analytical lab tests and that group says to use test #603. I'm curious why not use the other test that is cheaper?

I have been soaking hay by default, as never get enough volume to do all the mineral balancing. I'd like to be able to just stuff small opening hay nets ahead of time to make easier for feeding.

What I need is just to see if my last hay batch of bales from feed store needs soaking or not. How badly sugary is the hay? I have a pet sitter coming to care for my critters while on a trip. Neighbors have also volunteered to help. They could could toss pre-stuffed hay bags over fence in afternoon between the 2 pet sitter daily visits, if isn't too sugary. I feed my horses 3 - 4 times a day normally, but they won't get that while I'm away.

I keep asking around for hay that is known to be lower sugar. I'm also working to get fully on the Ohio Dehy Balanced Timothy Hay cubes. Working on making money for more cost of the bagged feed and also just switching them diet wise.

Test 601: Equi-Tech - combines high tech near infrared and plasma spectroscopy for a complete nutritional profile. By utilizing this progressive technology, lab efficiency is maximized enabling us to offer you a complete hay or pasture analysis at a reduced cost. Includes moisture, dry matter, digestible energy, crude protein, estimated lysine, acid detergent fiber, neutral detergent fiber, lignin, Ethanol Soluble Carbohydrates (ESC), Water Soluble Carbohydrates (WSC), starch, non fiber carbohydrates (NFC), fat, ash, calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium, iron, zinc, copper, manganese, molybdenum.
Best use - best dollar value for frequent analysis of hay or pasture when a comprehensive profile is desired.
Price: $28.00

Test 603: Trainer - utilizes traditional analytical methods to determine protein, fiber, carbonhydrates and minerals. Includes moisture, dry matter, digestible energy, crude protein, estimated lysine, acid detergent fiber, neutral detergent fiber, Ethanol Soluble Carbohydrates (ESC), Water Soluble Carbohydrates (WSC), starch, non fiber carbohydrates (NFC), calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium, iron, zinc, copper, manganese, molybdenum.
Best Use- hays, pastures or grain where a fundamental overview of essential nutrients is required.
Price: $54.00

I know folks will say to just get the more expensive test because isn't worth it and not that much more, but if I have to do over and over and over for each new batch from feedstore then the cost differential will add up.

Is the #603 test that much better? Or is it just what has been used prior, so what works for all the prior calculation history and experience? They look by description to do same tests, but just by a different methodology.

Thanks,

Meg
north Texas
April 15, 2010 (2 Icelandic geldings)


Re: New test results: ACTH increased

Nancy C
 

What kind of compounded are you giving? In other words liquid, capsules, tablet, etc?

Keep at that case history! Yahoo is being way beyond a PITA. My response may not comet through or may come through 10 times.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Bonnie" <bon.ivey@...> wrote:

My Welsh sect.C pony Lad, 15 yrs, has been getting 1.25 mg of compounded pergolide. In November ACTH was 19.1 pmol/L. It is presently 24.7pmol/L.


New test results: ACTH increased

Bonnie
 

My Welsh sect.C pony Lad, 15 yrs, has been getting 1.25 mg of compounded pergolide. In November ACTH was 19.1 pmol/L. It is presently 24.7pmol/L.

Any comments?

My vet suggests raising the dose to 2 mg then retesting after a month.

She asked whether the group has noted a difference in response to compounded pergolide (assuming it is kept properly and not degraded) and "commercial brands". (Are there any others besides Prascend?) She asks because she has seen, in dogs, a different response between commercial and generic products.

I have tried to update my case history but it didn't "take." Will try again after sleep!

Bonnie Ivey, Ontario
Lad the wooley wonder
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Bonnie%20and%20Lad/


Re: Prascend/Cushings

pjhoof
 

Wow! Didnt connect that. I assume though this compound excluding cortisone can possibly help?
Ann
Nebraska
May 2007

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Linda <PapBallou@...> wrote:

My Vet & I have most recently placed my 18 year old Mtn gelding on Prascend, and will be getting him started on an antiinflammatory today as well as he is sore on all four and has been for a few days. I've also used DMSO on top of a combination of cortisone crm/anti-itch crm/antibiotic ointment mix on his lower legs and coronary bands and wrapping with cotton wraps.

Ann -

I would be very, very careful about using a steroidal medication, even a topical cream, on a horse that has PPID or is suspected of having it.

If I recall correctly, you are a nurse so - this might be familiar. Steroid has been found to suppress ACTH in normal horses, so heaven knows what it could do in a PPID horse, where excess cortisol can be the start of the tipping point into laminitis. I know this all too well.


<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19614843>

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: continuous heat cycle

capnmrgn2000 <capnmrgn2000@...>
 

      Does your mare exhibit the squeal/strike
and squirt behavior only when you  trailer her? My mare, Annie
HI Ellen,
This is getting bit off-topic for this group. You can move on over the ECHK if you'd like to continue. Also reminding you trim you posts (delete most of the post you are replying to) to help those on "digest".
Thanks so much!
CHeryl and Ollie in MA
Jan. 2004
EC list support


Re: Prascend/Cushings

Linda <PapBallou@...>
 

My Vet & I have most recently placed my 18 year old Mtn gelding on Prascend, and will be getting him started on an antiinflammatory today as well as he is sore on all four and has been for a few days. I've also used DMSO on top of a combination of cortisone crm/anti-itch crm/antibiotic ointment mix on his lower legs and coronary bands and wrapping with cotton wraps.

Ann -

I would be very, very careful about using a steroidal medication, even a topical cream, on a horse that has PPID or is suspected of having it.

If I recall correctly, you are a nurse so - this might be familiar. Steroid has been found to suppress ACTH in normal horses, so heaven knows what it could do in a PPID horse, where excess cortisol can be the start of the tipping point into laminitis. I know this all too well.


<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19614843>

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: Coat looks like a pig

Nancy C
 

Hi

What kind of compound were you using, ie liquid, caps, etc and in what amount?

Please don't forget to sign your posts and include your location and date of joining.

Thanks for helping things run smoothly and your contribution of data.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Sher" <sher@...> wrote:

We recently switched from compounded pergolide to Prascend. We tested in December and his ACTH was actually in the "normal" range! Any suggestions where I should look for Vitex?

Thanks so much! We've been doing so well (knock on wood) I didn't want to blow things because of his terrible coat.


Re: Coat looks like a pig

Sher <sher@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "drkellon" <drkellon@...> wrote:

Many PPID horses have coat issues like this. If you look in areas of friction, like behind the elbows, you may also see skin thickening, scaling and hyperpigmentation.

You need to check the ACTH to make sure your pergolide dose is adequate. Important to follow our sampling and testing guidelines to make sure that test result is accurate.

If ACTH is controlled (a good thing metabolically), it may be that dopamine activity in the hypothalamus, not the pituitary, is still not adequate. The coat is controlled by the hypothalamus, not the pituitary.

Some people have added Vitex agnus-castus (Chastetreeberry) to their pergolide to get better control of this symptom. We don't have enough data to know if this combination is good, bad or indifferent with regard to controlling ACTH so if you do it you need to monitor ACTH.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001
We recently switched from compounded pergolide to Prascend. We tested in December and his ACTH was actually in the "normal" range! Any suggestions where I should look for Vitex?

Thanks so much! We've been doing so well (knock on wood) I didn't want to blow things because of his terrible coat.


Re: Change in hoof growth rings pre and post pergolide in suspected PPID horses?

Nancy C
 

Hi Sarah

Would be really helpful to know more about your testing, what time of year, etc. Do you have a Case History?

Controlling PPID is important. The first sign of PPID is often fall laminitis. A big player in the issue could also could be things in your diet. Again, knowing the details is really important to give you the best answer.

Here's the link to ECHistory7

pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory7

Please help us out by adding you location and date of joining the list.

Thanks very much.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., "flintfootfilly" <hollytreesarah@...> wrote:

I have a 16 year old pony mare who has become footy late summer the last two years. A nutritionist considers her to be her ideal weight, and I agree. ACTH tests have come back normal both times, and a post-TRH ACTH test earlier this year also came back within reference (although only 7 units below the new upper reference limit that Liphook are adopting).


Re: uploading hay analysis file

Nancy C
 

Hi Stephanie

I rearranged a few things, took out a couple of analysis to try to make room. Unfortunately I deleted your empty folder too. Please accept my apologies!

If you try again, creating another folder, you may find there is enough room now but that filing cabinet is pretty full.

If there is not enough room, go to ECHistory7 and upload there. You could move all your files there for convenience in the future.

Don't forget to add your location and date of joining to your signature. It really helps your volunteers.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., "stephsharpless@..." <stephsharpless@...> wrote:

Hi,
I am trying to upload a recent hay sample analysis to my file in ECHistory 2, and I keep getting a message that my file is too large,


Re: Prascend/Cushings

Mandy Woods
 

Hello PJ's Mom,
Welcome back to the group. We still recommend DDT/E. That’s Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

We recommend bloodtesting so we know what we are dealing with. To confirm Cushings aka PPID we recommend the eACTH test. This is a single blood pull but it does require special handling which you can read up on in the Bloodtesting File. I disagree with your vet regarding tests being "Not worth the time or the $". The results of the eACTH will tell you how severely PJ's Cushings could be which will tell you how much pergolide to adminster which is based on ACTH results, not the weight of the horse. I would also have your vet pull an Insulin/Glucose and Leptin sample to see if he's IR. Please use Cornell. Since PJ is a Mt Horse, he could easily be IR . Cushings is treated with Pergolide and IR is managed by DIET>

The DIET we recommend is a low sugar/starch/fat forage with minerals balanced to the assay. Please test your hay for sugar and starch. We recommend www.equi-analytical.com and get the Trainer # 603 for $54. This will give you the trace minerals major and minor as well. In the meantime I would start him on the Temporary Emergency Diet. This is soaking his hay, feeding the ER minerals of Vitamin E, iodized salt, freshly ground flax seed and magnesium until you get your analysis back. This diet will help any horse. The recipe for the ER diet is in the Start Here file as well as at www.ecirhorse.com This is critical if he's IR> IF you can feel a crest on him, heat/pulses in his feet or see fat deposits on his tail head and behind his shoulders, you should pull him off pasture 100% and start soaking his hay. Many horses have both Cushings and IR>

Trim is a balanced foot with heels lowered and toes backed. IF he's foot sore, boots/pads/wool socks and polo's would be appropriate this time of year. Some horses suffer from Winter Laminitis. Keep their legs/feet warm.

Exercise is best IR buster we know of. Hand walking if he's able. Never force a laminitic horse to move.

Yes, 11,000 people are here because of their horses. You are not alone. If you are committed to helping PJ and follow the DDT/E's - all of them at the same time - He has a very good chance of a happy outcome. What we'd like you to do first is join the ECH7 group, fill out the questionnaire because that paints a bigger picture for the volunteers to help you faster. Then, every time you write to the list, sign your name, state,date of joining and the link to PJ's Case History. You can add photos and xrays as well as his hay analysis to his CH. Everything at a finger tip!

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/echistory7


We’ve come along way since you were here last. Have a read at www.ecirhorse.org There are success stories as well as 'how to's for your vet'.

Mandy in VA
EC PRimary Response
OCT 2003


uploading hay analysis file

stephsharpless@bellsouth.net
 

Hi,
I am trying to upload a recent hay sample analysis to my file in ECHistory 2, and I keep getting a message that my file is too large, even though I delated two hay analyses that were in my file. This analysis was sent to me in pdf form by equi-analytical. Any suggestions on what to do?
Thanks!
Stephanie


Re: Hay Probe

 

I would definitely go with the drill probe from EA. Don't forget the free
analysis that comes with it. The free test is not the test we use here, so
I called EA and it is fine to upgrade to the 603 and just pay the
difference.

Kim Lee in NW PA
3/2010

On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 10:24 AM, Angela <aprenosil@...> wrote:

**


Okay so I'm biting the bullet and buying a hay probe for my personal use
probably sampling 1/yr or less as I get hay from the same source year after
year.
My choices are (without breaking the bank) the equi-analytical one for
$120 (goes on drill with free hay test)or the push type for Sierra Hay
Testing for $55....
Is it worth it to pay twice as much for the drill type...?
Thanks all,
Angela
Thorndike, MA
member since ?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


boarding in Stafford VA

eastvirginian
 

Hi I am new to the site but all the other sites I look at refer to this one! Anyway, I hope it is ok to post this boarding available:
owner doesn't mind putting grazing muzzle on and stuffing slow hay feeder nets. Water is good, pastures are limed & cleaned... 24 hour turnout w 2x day feeding, stall doors open, or as desired by boarder.
VERY reasonable. Other horses in the neighborhood, and your horse would be with mine, who is a barefoot gelding. Exercise option may be available.
write for more info
Thanks !
Liz
lizehrich@...


Thoughts on Nutrena Empower Balance for my Laminitic Cushings gelding

pjhoof
 

Empower Balance is or has been the only supplement that my gelding has been able to tolerate. What are you thoughts on this product? Thx! Ann


ECIR PERGOLIDE DOSAGE DATABASE: INPUT NEEDED!

tomtriv <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>
 

"The only "correct" dose of pergolide is the one that controls his ACTH."
- Dr. Kellon, ECIR Message #132610, Sep 2, 2009.

Ever wonder what the highest dosage of pergolide in the group is? The longest amount of time a horse has been on pergolide? How many horses’ ACTH is controlled? Who is on compounded or a brand name? Now you can find out by looking in the ECIR Pergolide Dosage Database:
http://tinyurl.com/yfahmda

The ECIR Pergolide Dosage Database can be sorted by clicking on a column heading. Use the arrows that appear in the sorting column's heading to sorting direction of the table. For instance if you click in the Current Dosage Column heading, the database automatically sorts from lowest dosage number to highest. If you click the arrow you can change it from highest to lowest. Through case history links, you can see how these horses are responding, their ACTH history, the pergolide formulations and administering details. Information you gather from these sources can be helpful when considering and discussing pergolide types and dosages with your vet.

If your horse is on pergolide and you haven't yet added your information or recorded dosage changes, RUN, don't walk over to http://tinyurl.com/yfahmda and enter your information. It won't take long and your information will help other PPID horses. Currently most of the data is old, with links to Case Histories that are no longer accessible. However, thanks to recent entries, the number of viewable case histories is rising and dosages amounts are starting to reflect today's numbers.

IMPORTANT: To ensure your data is useful and correctly processed by Yahoo's fixed sorting parameters,PLEASE FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS POSTED IN THE COLUMN HEADINGS AND REFRAIN FROM ADDING EXTRA INFORMATION. Extra information is what your case history is for. If you absolutely must add something please keep it brief and use the Added Information Column. THANK YOU! to those who have fixed your entries!

DATABASE STATISTICS â€" Feb 3, 2012
From 468 Horses:

1 Horse on 17.0mg
1 horse on 15.0mg
3 horses on 12.0mg
1 horse on 10.5mg
2 horses on 10.0mg
2 horses on 9.0mg
2 horses on 8.5mgs (one is a pony)
2 horses on 8.0mg
4 horses on 7.0mg
8 horses on 6.0mg
1 horse on 5.5mg
5 horses on 5.0mg
3 horses on 4.5mg
1 horse on 4.25mg
11 horses on 4.0mg
4 horses on 3.5mg
18 horses on 3.0mg
1 horse on 2.75mg
13 horses on 2.5mg
2 horses on 2.25mg
32 horses on 2.0mg
4 horses on 1.75mg
32 horses on 1.5mg
3 horses on 1.25mg
3 horses on 1.2mg
4 horses on 1.05mg
134 horses on 1.0mg
16 horses on 0.75mg
1 horse on 0.7mg
1 horse on 0.6mg
33 horses on 0.5mg
7 horses on less than 0.5mg
130 horses have been omitted from the above table due to incorrect data entry. Thank you to those who fixed your entries!

Thank you for your cooperation.
Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Team of the Equine Cushings List


Re: Riley in AZ Update

Lorna <briars@...>
 

I will do the insulin as well and send the whole batch off
to Cornell.
Be sure to do Glucose,too.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

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