Date   

Re: Supplements

Lorna <briars@...>
 


I'd like to hear of the various supplements people are using who feed only bermuda hay.
Hi Lori,

That would depend on the hay analysis.

Can you add a case history link to your signature when you post ?

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


Re: Question about Equi-Analytical lab tests

lars_a_swe
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "meg_findhorse" <meg_findhorse@...> wrote:

What I need is just to see if my last hay batch of bales from feed store needs soaking or not.
If you only are interested in sugar and starch values you can ask for a custom package. This will be $28 or choose the Carb Pack (644) for $30.

Lars
Sweden, July 2008


Re: Dr. K. Or anyone's ideas need help to keep Rani calm.

gypsylassie
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Leanne" <nallyhole@...> wrote:

...... suggestions with what might work for them with regards taking the edge of any stress for my mare Rani ( cushings and IR.)
Our daughter is getting married later this year in our/Rani's back paddock ie. Marquis,150 people, bands etc..
Our neighbors across the field have been getting fireworks lately, actual, real fireworks, have a big party and put on a pretty big display on the fourth. I save some of the boys early evening hay to feed as soon as the "show" starts. I shut them in their stalls and turn on the barn lights so the flashes don't show up so much. Depending on how late it goes, I have their late night hay ready too. They take it all in stride with this set up. It could be one thing to try with your girl. Or, if Rani can see all the goings on, maybe if a few horse friendly attendees came up to her with a safe treat that she likes, like a peanut in the shell, she might see the party as less frightening. Hope it all goes well.
Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL.2011


Pill stuffed carrot

lorisurina@ymail.com <JABASKA@...>
 

For those who've had trouble getting their horses to take their pergolide capsules, I wanted to share my success. I cut a 1" piece of carrot, put a nail through it and stuff the capsule inside. Hooray - success!! Be sure to keep the carrot as small as possible as they're a forbidden vege for IR horses. Finally, no more morning ughs.

Lori Surina (Majik)
Tucson, AZ
12/12


Prascend vs Compounded Pergolide

lorisurina@ymail.com <JABASKA@...>
 

My vet says she's seeing better results with Prascend than compounded pergolide - and says it's much more stable than compounded. I'd like to hear the experience/feelings of others.

Lori Surina (Majik)
Tucson, AZ
12/12


Supplements

lorisurina@ymail.com <JABASKA@...>
 

I'd like to hear of the various supplements people are using who feed only bermuda hay. Majik has rejected one already, so I'd like to hear what's been helpful to those on the group.

Thanks

Lori Surina (Majik)
Tucson, AZ
12/12


Re: Dr. K. Or anyone's ideas need help to keep Rani calm.

 

Please if Dr. K. Or anyone can give me any suggestions with what might work for them with regards taking the edge of any stress for my mare Rani ( cushings and IR.)
Our daughter is getting married later this year in our/Rani's back paddock ie. Marquis,150 people, bands etc.. Is there anything safe I can give Rani and her miniature companion to take the edge off any stress that this might cause them. I have bought ear plug thingos which I will attempt to use I am concerned as I do not wish to sedate them as such as on a previous occasions Rani suffered colic after requiring it for routine scan. Thanks in advance for any ideas and help.
Leanne n Rani.
Aust 2009.


Re: Dr. K. Or anyone's ideas need help to keep Rani calm.

 

Please if Dr. K. Or anyone can give me any suggestions with what might work for them with regards taking the edge of any stress for my mare Rani ( cushings and IR.)
Our daughter is getting married later this year in our/Rani's back paddock ie. Marquis,150 people, bands etc.. Is there anything safe I can give Rani and her miniature companion to take the edge off any stress that this might cause them. I have bought ear plug thingos which I will attempt to use I am concerned as I do not wish to sedate them as such as on a previous occasions Rani suffered colic after requiring it for routine scan. Thanks in advance for any ideas and help.
Leanne n Rani.
Aust 2009.


Re: Question about Equi-Analytical lab tests

meg_findhorse
 

Thanks. Knowing to use keyword NIR also helps me be able to go through the archives.

Meg


Re: Question about Equi-Analytical lab tests

Lorna <briars@...>
 

Hi Meg,

Looking at Equi-Analytical lab tests and that group says to use test #603. I'm curious why not use the other test that is cheaper?
The other test is NIR.

Here's a message from Sally,which is a good reason to use the wet chemistry,603 :

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/175919

Here's another message from Dr. Kellon:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/171056


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


Re: New test results: ACTH increased

Bonnie
 

I was asked what kind of compounded product I'm using.

Sorry: should have specified. I am using capsules from Island Pharmacy in B.C. Canada. Have been keeping the pill bottles inside a sealed plastic container at room temperature.

Each morning I put the required dose into a ziplock bag, then into a sealed plastic jar. It sits in the barn (temp. approximately 40 F) until the 5 PM feed. Capsules are placed in a peanut shell, handed to Lad. I watch to make sure they don't get dropped.

Is this appropriate care?

Bonnie Ivey, Ontario 12/08


Question about Equi-Analytical lab tests

meg_findhorse
 

Looking at Equi-Analytical lab tests and that group says to use test #603. I'm curious why not use the other test that is cheaper?

I have been soaking hay by default, as never get enough volume to do all the mineral balancing. I'd like to be able to just stuff small opening hay nets ahead of time to make easier for feeding.

What I need is just to see if my last hay batch of bales from feed store needs soaking or not. How badly sugary is the hay? I have a pet sitter coming to care for my critters while on a trip. Neighbors have also volunteered to help. They could could toss pre-stuffed hay bags over fence in afternoon between the 2 pet sitter daily visits, if isn't too sugary. I feed my horses 3 - 4 times a day normally, but they won't get that while I'm away.

I keep asking around for hay that is known to be lower sugar. I'm also working to get fully on the Ohio Dehy Balanced Timothy Hay cubes. Working on making money for more cost of the bagged feed and also just switching them diet wise.

Test 601: Equi-Tech - combines high tech near infrared and plasma spectroscopy for a complete nutritional profile. By utilizing this progressive technology, lab efficiency is maximized enabling us to offer you a complete hay or pasture analysis at a reduced cost. Includes moisture, dry matter, digestible energy, crude protein, estimated lysine, acid detergent fiber, neutral detergent fiber, lignin, Ethanol Soluble Carbohydrates (ESC), Water Soluble Carbohydrates (WSC), starch, non fiber carbohydrates (NFC), fat, ash, calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium, iron, zinc, copper, manganese, molybdenum.
Best use - best dollar value for frequent analysis of hay or pasture when a comprehensive profile is desired.
Price: $28.00

Test 603: Trainer - utilizes traditional analytical methods to determine protein, fiber, carbonhydrates and minerals. Includes moisture, dry matter, digestible energy, crude protein, estimated lysine, acid detergent fiber, neutral detergent fiber, Ethanol Soluble Carbohydrates (ESC), Water Soluble Carbohydrates (WSC), starch, non fiber carbohydrates (NFC), calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium, iron, zinc, copper, manganese, molybdenum.
Best Use- hays, pastures or grain where a fundamental overview of essential nutrients is required.
Price: $54.00

I know folks will say to just get the more expensive test because isn't worth it and not that much more, but if I have to do over and over and over for each new batch from feedstore then the cost differential will add up.

Is the #603 test that much better? Or is it just what has been used prior, so what works for all the prior calculation history and experience? They look by description to do same tests, but just by a different methodology.

Thanks,

Meg
north Texas
April 15, 2010 (2 Icelandic geldings)


Re: New test results: ACTH increased

Nancy C
 

What kind of compounded are you giving? In other words liquid, capsules, tablet, etc?

Keep at that case history! Yahoo is being way beyond a PITA. My response may not comet through or may come through 10 times.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Bonnie" <bon.ivey@...> wrote:

My Welsh sect.C pony Lad, 15 yrs, has been getting 1.25 mg of compounded pergolide. In November ACTH was 19.1 pmol/L. It is presently 24.7pmol/L.


New test results: ACTH increased

Bonnie
 

My Welsh sect.C pony Lad, 15 yrs, has been getting 1.25 mg of compounded pergolide. In November ACTH was 19.1 pmol/L. It is presently 24.7pmol/L.

Any comments?

My vet suggests raising the dose to 2 mg then retesting after a month.

She asked whether the group has noted a difference in response to compounded pergolide (assuming it is kept properly and not degraded) and "commercial brands". (Are there any others besides Prascend?) She asks because she has seen, in dogs, a different response between commercial and generic products.

I have tried to update my case history but it didn't "take." Will try again after sleep!

Bonnie Ivey, Ontario
Lad the wooley wonder
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Bonnie%20and%20Lad/


Re: Prascend/Cushings

pjhoof
 

Wow! Didnt connect that. I assume though this compound excluding cortisone can possibly help?
Ann
Nebraska
May 2007

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Linda <PapBallou@...> wrote:

My Vet & I have most recently placed my 18 year old Mtn gelding on Prascend, and will be getting him started on an antiinflammatory today as well as he is sore on all four and has been for a few days. I've also used DMSO on top of a combination of cortisone crm/anti-itch crm/antibiotic ointment mix on his lower legs and coronary bands and wrapping with cotton wraps.

Ann -

I would be very, very careful about using a steroidal medication, even a topical cream, on a horse that has PPID or is suspected of having it.

If I recall correctly, you are a nurse so - this might be familiar. Steroid has been found to suppress ACTH in normal horses, so heaven knows what it could do in a PPID horse, where excess cortisol can be the start of the tipping point into laminitis. I know this all too well.


<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19614843>

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: continuous heat cycle

capnmrgn2000 <capnmrgn2000@...>
 

      Does your mare exhibit the squeal/strike
and squirt behavior only when you  trailer her? My mare, Annie
HI Ellen,
This is getting bit off-topic for this group. You can move on over the ECHK if you'd like to continue. Also reminding you trim you posts (delete most of the post you are replying to) to help those on "digest".
Thanks so much!
CHeryl and Ollie in MA
Jan. 2004
EC list support


Re: Prascend/Cushings

Linda <PapBallou@...>
 

My Vet & I have most recently placed my 18 year old Mtn gelding on Prascend, and will be getting him started on an antiinflammatory today as well as he is sore on all four and has been for a few days. I've also used DMSO on top of a combination of cortisone crm/anti-itch crm/antibiotic ointment mix on his lower legs and coronary bands and wrapping with cotton wraps.

Ann -

I would be very, very careful about using a steroidal medication, even a topical cream, on a horse that has PPID or is suspected of having it.

If I recall correctly, you are a nurse so - this might be familiar. Steroid has been found to suppress ACTH in normal horses, so heaven knows what it could do in a PPID horse, where excess cortisol can be the start of the tipping point into laminitis. I know this all too well.


<http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19614843>

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: Coat looks like a pig

Nancy C
 

Hi

What kind of compound were you using, ie liquid, caps, etc and in what amount?

Please don't forget to sign your posts and include your location and date of joining.

Thanks for helping things run smoothly and your contribution of data.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Sher" <sher@...> wrote:

We recently switched from compounded pergolide to Prascend. We tested in December and his ACTH was actually in the "normal" range! Any suggestions where I should look for Vitex?

Thanks so much! We've been doing so well (knock on wood) I didn't want to blow things because of his terrible coat.


Re: Coat looks like a pig

Sher <sher@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "drkellon" <drkellon@...> wrote:

Many PPID horses have coat issues like this. If you look in areas of friction, like behind the elbows, you may also see skin thickening, scaling and hyperpigmentation.

You need to check the ACTH to make sure your pergolide dose is adequate. Important to follow our sampling and testing guidelines to make sure that test result is accurate.

If ACTH is controlled (a good thing metabolically), it may be that dopamine activity in the hypothalamus, not the pituitary, is still not adequate. The coat is controlled by the hypothalamus, not the pituitary.

Some people have added Vitex agnus-castus (Chastetreeberry) to their pergolide to get better control of this symptom. We don't have enough data to know if this combination is good, bad or indifferent with regard to controlling ACTH so if you do it you need to monitor ACTH.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001
We recently switched from compounded pergolide to Prascend. We tested in December and his ACTH was actually in the "normal" range! Any suggestions where I should look for Vitex?

Thanks so much! We've been doing so well (knock on wood) I didn't want to blow things because of his terrible coat.


Re: Change in hoof growth rings pre and post pergolide in suspected PPID horses?

Nancy C
 

Hi Sarah

Would be really helpful to know more about your testing, what time of year, etc. Do you have a Case History?

Controlling PPID is important. The first sign of PPID is often fall laminitis. A big player in the issue could also could be things in your diet. Again, knowing the details is really important to give you the best answer.

Here's the link to ECHistory7

pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory7

Please help us out by adding you location and date of joining the list.

Thanks very much.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., "flintfootfilly" <hollytreesarah@...> wrote:

I have a 16 year old pony mare who has become footy late summer the last two years. A nutritionist considers her to be her ideal weight, and I agree. ACTH tests have come back normal both times, and a post-TRH ACTH test earlier this year also came back within reference (although only 7 units below the new upper reference limit that Liphook are adopting).

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