Date   

***NEW*** ECIR FILES - SEARCH-AND-CLICK TABLE OF CONTENTS

tomtriv <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>
 

New and easier to use! ECIR Files Table of Contents:
http://tinyurl.com/6lsvppq

To help members quickly find information in the files, the ECIR Group has posted a search-and-click Table of Contents (TOC) at, or near, the top of each of the Files sections in the ECIR groups.

The TOC is a listing of all documents in the all ECIR Groups so contents of folders can be viewed without you having to open folders. It is up-dated at least monthly. Case Histories, Hay Analysis, Member Work Sheets and Photos excluded.

Links to the files can only be made to folders, so after clicking on the title of the document you want to see you'll have to scroll to find and open that specific document.

File inquiries, comments, suggestions and reports of broken links or missing documents can be sent to LeeAnne at ThePitchforkPrincess <at> gmail <dot> com or posted in the ECIR Group.

Many of the ECIR Groups' files are in PDF format requiring Adobe Reader to view them. A free version is available at
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2_allversions.html

Some files are in Microsoft Excel format. A free reader is available at
http://tinyurl.com/2qyhx5

If you have difficulty opening files, contact
EquineCushings-owner@...

Thank you for your cooperation.

Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Teams of the Equine Cushings Lists


Seasonal high and bloodwork

mejrockft
 

Hello all: My horse, Surprise, has been doing well for the last couple years and I have not had to post. My vet has let me go without bloodwork for last 2 years and now insists I get some done on him before she will write another script for his peroglide. I am concerned about us being too close to seasonal high now and that the results will give us an incorrect indication of what his dosage should be. I did some searching on topics and bloodwork is recommended in spring.

Any input would be appreciated.

Torri & Surprise
Mequon WI
March 2007


Re: Diarrhea need help.

mjlegault <mjlegault@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Lorna" <briars@...> wrote:


My IR mare is in extreme diarrhea since sunday.
I meant to ask, is there any possibility of Potomac Fever where you live?

Hi Lorna,
I dont think its Potomac Fever because she never had a fever since it started.
I haven't change anything in her diet, I have the same hay. For the Insulin resistant condition, she is doing great, she lost a lot of weight, we can start to see slightly her ribs, she is not lame, no heat or elevated pulse, nothing and normaly she is full of vinegar....
Waiting for the result of the blood today and from the agronomist because I found a weird plant in my hay. I have been dealing with colics with my other mare since february and I had that mare for 7 years and she was never sick. So we are wondering if both of my horses are getting intoxicated for that plant in my hay.
Hope it gets better, because poor Cashmere, I have to wash her bum avery couple of hours and she is very lethargic.
Thanks for your help and if anybody have suggestion, please let me know.

Marie Josee
Morin-Heights, Qc. / Canada Sept. 2012
http://pets. groups.yahoo. com/group/ ECHistory6/ files/Marie% 20Josee/


Re: Serrano update - advice please?

Nancy C
 

It's going to be much easier to do this Karen, with compounded pergolide vs Prascend. My guy is currently on 8 mg.

Hopefully your blood went to Cornell.

Like Jaini says, don't despair. You can get this right and it makes all the difference for Serrano

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.

ECIR Group Inc. NO Laminitis! Conference, Jacksonville Oregon, September 27-29, 2013.

--- In EquineCushings@..., "merlin5clougher" <janieclougher@...> wrote:

Hi, Karen - don't despair. Many horses are on much higher doses - check out the database here:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/database?method=reportRows&tbl=11

I have one on 7.5, one on 5 and one on 2. It seems that when one is chasing the rise, it is harder to get the ACTH under control.


Bi Yan Pian for anti-biotic resistant sinus infection

Shari Starr
 

My horse had a molar problem that turned into a sinus infection with symptoms of a foul discharge from one nostril. The tooth was removed but the sinus infection was very difficult to treat. After 2 tries with SZM tablets each time the discharge with foul odor would return afer a month. The next treatment was Metronidazole & the same results. After a month the discharge & odor came back. Prior to an invasive surgical intervention I used Bi Yan Pian that I obtained from my local Chinese Herb store. I followed the intstructions from the very knowledgeable & helpful owner of the store & the infection was finally healed & did not return.

Shari & Snickers
Lifesong Farm


Items to donate for cushing's horses

Shari Starr
 

Due to the recent passing of my friend, Snickers that was being treated for cushing's disease I have a recently filled prescription of Pergolide 2 mg capsules, count 89 that I wish to give away. I also have a 1 pound bag of Jiaogulan powder, 1/2 pound approx. of chaste tree berry powder. I wish to give away. I haven't been able to find any local veterinarian offices that have any clients in need or local rescue groups. I am located in Graham, Wa. (Western WA- Near Tacoma/Olypia area).

Shari Starr
Lifesong Farm
lifesongfarm@...


Re: Serrano update - advice please?

merlin5clougher <janieclougher@...>
 

Hi, Karen - don't despair. Many horses are on much higher doses - check out the database here:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/database?method=reportRows&tbl=11

I have one on 7.5, one on 5 and one on 2. It seems that when one is chasing the rise, it is harder to get the ACTH under control.

The lack of energy can certainly be due to the high ACTH.

When increasing the pergolide, some horses can be very sensitive and lose their appetites with too quick an increase; better to increase by a quarter tablet every 3 days if that is the case. When the horses get to higher doses, though, going up by 1 pill at a time usually doesn't cause a problem. Give Serrano 4 mg; if his appetite decreases, or he seems a little spacey or disoriented, back it down to 3.25 pills.

As to the mini-seizure - it could have been that; or it could have been a muscle spasm or similar. All I can say here is to monitor.

You give him such good care - hang in there, increase the pergolide, and let us know how he gets on. Don't forget to breathe!

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC09
ECIR mod/support

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/

--- In EquineCushings@..., karen sremac <karenclarinet@...> wrote:

Hi,
I am sad to say that Serrano's ACTH test from last week was 60.4...

Karen and Serrano
Sept 2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Karen%20%26%20Serrano%20in%20Calif/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Fly Free Snickers

merlin5clougher <janieclougher@...>
 

Hi, Shari - your reply went to the group and to me as well. I am sure someone can use the pergolide, jiaogulan and ginger - thank you so much for wanting to send it on.

Please take care of yourself during this tough time.

I love the name of your farm.

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC09
ECIR mod/support

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/


.... I'm not sure hitting the reply sent it only to you or to the whole discussion group. I would like to send thank you's to the others that have sent condolences also........


Sincerely,

Shari
Lifesong Farm


Re: Fly Free Snickers

Shari Starr
 

Jaini, I thank you for the thoughtful note that you sent to me regarding the loss of my friend Snickers. I'm new to this type of communication in a group discussion so please let me know if this e-mail reply has been received by you. I'm not sure hitting the reply sent it only to you or to the whole discussion group. I would like to send thank you's to the others that have sent condolences also. I also plan on sending a note to the whole group to let them know that I have a presription of pegolide 2 mg caplets to donate & I also have a bag of jiaogulan that has a certificate of analysis & a full bag of organic ginger. The group moderator said it would be ok to post the information on the discussion group at least for the pergolide. I don't have a use for the others so I'll give that away also.

This group is such a blessing; I wish that I had found it sooner.

Sincerely,

Shari
Lifesong Farm
lifesongfarm@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., "merlin5clougher" <janieclougher@...> wrote:

Shari, thank you so much for thinking of others at this horrible time. You did the only thing possible, and were thinking of his welfare as always. What a great gift you gave him, what a lovely tribute you have written for Snickers - I am so sorry for his loss.


Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC09
ECIR mod/support

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/



Missing my once in a lifetime horse, soulmate & best friend Snickers, who has been by my side for the last 22 years. My heart is breaking. We were so close emotionally & mentally that I can still feel him with me by my side. "Doulos" love is the kind that could do this.

Shari Starr


Re: Jackie Decker & Tori Insulin Resistant High Glucose Laminitic Episode - Oregon

 

July 3, 2013

Thank you for your prompt responses to my inquiry on Tori. I have moved the hoof photos to the photo section of echistory7 and added some photos of Tori's body from the side and front and showing the bulges she has around her eyes. I noted that they have come down slightly since she went on the 6 grams of Metformin am and pm and Thyrol and the other supplements. I am reducing the quantity of bute as she is tolerating it, tonight giving her ½ gram.

Am I to understand that you recommend not giving her the 48 mg of Thyrol because the low T4 (.72 ug/dL where reference is 0.85-2.4) is a function of her high insulin and glucose and will come down of its own accord as we get insulin and glucose under control, but actually might not do as well if she is being treated with Thyrol?

I will ask the vet for copies of the X-rays of her hooves and add them when received. The vet had not mentioned sinking when reviewing the X-rays with me, just the rotation.

I am getting a shipment of grass hay in next Tuesday and will have it analyzed so I can balance her minerals.

In the mean time, I'm soaking the grassy alfalfa that I do have, and will stop free feeding it to her, limiting her to 18 pounds of pre-soaked hay in the hay net a day divided into 3 or 4 feedings. She did drop weight during the first two weeks of her laminitis episode, with her ribs becoming visible. Her ribs are now covered, but she is still thin to my eye.

I am also rinsing and soaking the pelleted beet pulp I'm using to give her her CA Trace and Metformin. I'll increase the iodized salt to a couple of tablespoons per day, give her 3 grams a day of magnesium and 2,000 IU/day of vitamin E and 3 oz of flax seed. I will cut out the Remission and MMP Stop.

I hope I'm on the right track here or that you will let me know what corrections I should make to help my mare.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/echistory7/files/Jackie%20Decker%20%26%20Tori/
Jackie Decker and Tori, Jackson County, Oregon
July 2, 2013


Serrano update - advice please?

karen sremac <karenclarinet@...>
 

Hi,
I am sad to say that Serrano's ACTH test from last week was 60.4...
Very high at this time when it should be low.
And he has not been doing well with gas colic, a possible mini seizure,
lameness in RH and no energy.
The vet said to go up one pill, and that that is how it is done, one pill at
a time. Is that true when you are already at 3 and it is not working? I am
very concerned that he needs so much already, after just being diagnosed
in Sept... and felt like he was behind the rise since then. And the seizure
has just got me really upset. I was cleaning his right eye in his hot stall,
and he was standing and cooperating, as he always does. Then he raised
his head just a little, and got stuck. His whole body went stiff and jerked
for
a short time before he could bring his head down. Then he seemed just
fine after. I have not seen this before with him ever before, EXCEPT that
when he colics from gas pain, he looks like he is having mini seizures too.
He lies down and suffers through it and then gets up and shakes the dust
off to get on with life. When he has gas pain it looks different. He closes
his
eyes and twitches and then stretches out and farts. He is very stoic, so I
worry. I read that Cushings can cause seizures and now I know his ACTH
is still not controlled, and I am very scared.
Please advise and/or reassure me!
Many thanks,
Karen and Serrano
Sept 2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Karen%20%26%20Serrano%20in%20Calif/


Re: Diarrhea need help.

Lorna <briars@...>
 

My IR mare is in extreme diarrhea since sunday.
I meant to ask, is there any possibility of Potomac Fever where you live?


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


Re: Diarrhea need help.

Lorna <briars@...>
 

Hi Marie Josee,

I'm sorry Cashmere is having problems.
I've checked her case history to get the full picture.
Is it up to date?

Did you just recently change her hay?

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


Diarrhea need help.

mjlegault <mjlegault@...>
 

Hi,

My IR mare is in extreme diarrhea since sunday. She was only eating hay
and balance minerals and vitamins with DEHY cubes to carry minerals and
is doing very well and her insulin in controlled.

The vet came out today and waiting for result of bloodwork and there is a possibility of intoxication from my hay. Waiting for a response from a agronomist.

The last three morning she has colic, the vet makes me give her 5CC of
Banamine by injection and then it helps her for the rest of the day.

If anybody can help, my poor horse is so sick.

Thank You

Marie Josee
Morin-Heights, Qc. / Canada Sept. 2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Marie%20Josee/


Re: Pushing the lethargic horse?

 

You don't want "dl-alpha tocopherol" - that is synthetic vitamin E. If the capsules only have glycerin but no oil, it won't be absorbed as well.
I ordered some 1000IU capsules with oil now. It said natural and d-aplha tocopherol, so it should be OK then. Thank you!


Does Mahjiino try to eat all his hay as soon as he gets it? Feeding him in small mesh hay nets to slow down his eating can modulate the spikes that come from eating all his food at once.
Soaking/draining the hay to lower the sugar is important - if you can spread the hay to dry, you could soak several meals at one time. It's looking for little tricks like this which can make dealing with all this a bit easier.

No, he's actually a very picky eater (thankfully!), and doesn't think much of his soaked hay, so he eats it slowly and grudgingly. With 10-12 kg/day through nets, he has food available most of the day. I can only soak one meal at a time, as I don't have a place to spread it out to dry. It's working out OK for now, but I have to get hold of something that doesn't need to be soaked when i start work in august!

Stine, Norway, april 2013
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/echistory7/files/Mahjiino/


Re: Pushing the lethargic horse?

 

I don't know your relationship with your vet.Mine usually lets me give the dose I think is needed. He doesn't treat a LOT of PPID horses,but some.
I am feeding 10 mg, 9 mg, and 6 mg to 3 of my PPID horses.
I've talked to another vet now, who seems to have some more experience with PPID. She told me to increase to 1 mg (one whole pill) of Prascend for three weeks, and then to get new blood work done. I'm excited to see if that helps. :)



Stine, Norway, april 2013
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/echistory7/files/Mahjiino/


Re: Pushing the lethargic horse?

 

OK, thank you, I will see if they will send the supplement you linked to to Norway.

Stine, Norway, april 2013
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/echistory7/files/Mahjiino/


Re: Pushing the lethargic horse?

 

Iodized salt in Sweden contains 5 mg iodine per 100 g salt, i.e. 0.05 mg/g. It's probably the same in Norway. If not, Swedish "JOZO" salt is probably available in Norway.
"JOZO" is a regular salt brand here, I'll check the iodine content in the store, they might have changed the product here to fit Norwegian diets?


Another thing to consider is that Norway has a long coastline and most Norwegians live close to the Norwegian Sea which is part of the Atlantic. The average iodine content in Swedish timothy hay is 0.3 mg/kg DM and it's probably much higher in Norway. I don't know where Stine lives and where her hay is grown but there is a chance that her hay contains quite a bit of iodine. However, I'm not sure what will happen to the iodine when the hay is soaked. It's probably better to not factor in any iodine in soaked hay or assume a low value if she doesn't want to test her hay for iodine.
The hay I'm feeding ATM is produced along the coastline. They don't even seem to test for iodine in Norwegian labs. Will get the proper analyses abroad when I get the hay I will be using for a while!


Stine, Norway, april 2013
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/echistory7/files/Mahjiino/


Re: Jackie Decker & Tori Insulin Resistant High Glucose Laminitic Episode - Oregon

Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/echistory7/files/Jackie%20Decker%20%26%20Tori/

Hi Jackie,
Thanks for putting all the info into a case history and for the pics - it is so helpful. Would you be able to add the xrays that were done as well? In looking at your photos it seems that Tori's soles are fairly flat yet she appears to have a fair amount of foot. This makes me wonder if there is sinking along with the rotation that was showing up. If so, will need to be careful of how much of that excess hoof wall should be removed. There is some flaring and forward heel migration but overall not as bad as many that we see here.

In addition to the points Maggie made, want to add that using bute AND banamine simultaneously is dangerous. The combination becomes highly toxic to the colon. See here:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/124235

A great post explaining the rationale for weaning off bute here:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/114598

Are you just soaking the beet pulp or rinse/soak/rinsing? The r/s/r is so that excess iron is first rinsed away, then excess sugar is soaked out, then the final rinse washes everything away.

At 14h and 900 lbs Tori sounds like she is at a good body condition score, which normally is considered a 5. Here is a link to how to assess BCS:

http://ryanpaulthompson.com/clients/still/bray-horse-body-condition.html

Can you post a few body shots of her as well?

Primary hypothyroidism is quite rare in horses so the low T4 reading is most likely due to dietary imbalances and/or uncontrolled IR issues. Correct the actual cause and the thyroid straightens itself out. Low iodine and selenium intake are the most likely dietary components.

With Tori's glucose being above high normal values, making her actually diabetic, and her very high insulin numbers the diet needs to be addressed. Even tho it tends to test low ESC+Starch, alfalfa causes foot issues in many horses. Plus, it has excessively high protein and a very skewed mineral profile that is difficult to correct. Can you get Ontario Dehy Balanced Timothy cubes in your area? Check with your local feed dealers - if they carry Triple Crown products they have/can get these. The ODTBC are a guaranteed low s/s hay cube that is minral balanced and can replace your hay. All you need to add is ground flax, salt and vit E gelcaps. Stabul 1 by NUZU Feeds is another safe option to replace part of your hay.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Magnesium supplements Suggestions. James decided he HATES Metabolease

gypsylassie
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "baymare1962@..." <baymare1@...> wrote:

Hi everyone, looking for suggestions regarding Mag supps. James started turning up his nose at his PM feed in Feb. 2013. Following suggestions on the "picky eaters" article I tried all the tricks in the book.
Hi Angela,
Recently Dr. Kellon posted that Cocosoya oil from Uckele is safe at up to 4oz/day. You could try a drizzle of that over the supps. Most horses love it so maybe it would work for James. (Love his name!)
Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL.2011

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