Date   

Re: Sweating

Mandy Woods
 

Caryn,
 
PPID is a progressive condition.  We are in the seasonal rise now.  His ACTH could still be climbing or you never reached the correct amount of pergolide to control his ACTH value.   There is no exact date when the seasonal rise begins to drop off as each horse reacts in his own way to the rise.  The only way to know is to test.  Sweating in odd places is a symptom of uncontrolled PPID.  It is also a symptom of pain.
 
Your boy should not be in work yet.  IF he ‘’major foundered’’ in August he should still be on stall/dry paddock rest and in rehab boots and pads.  IT takes  9 months to a YEAR to grow out a hoof.  Even then you may need to wait for two or three hoof growths to see if the attachment of the laminae to the coffin bone is tight.     I would not be putting any weight on his back.  Front feet carry more weight of the rider/tack.  He should be hand walked quietly  in straight lines with very large half circles to turn around.  He should not be lunged.  He should not be trotting. 
 
I would test his ACTH to see if he needs more pergolide.   Give him the time off he needs to heal. Are his minerals balanced to his hay?
 
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003
 


Sweating

Caryn Darmer
 

HI! I have a cushings, previous founder, IR horse who had a major founder episode on August 27, he has been on Pergolide (1 tablet) once a day for two months and has been great and had great results in his updated blood test. He has gone back to light work (walking under saddle) and light trotting on a line for a few minutes and has been very wild and very sound. 

However, two days ago he was super crazy on the line and took off galloping and bucking and I am wondering if he may have overdone it. He was sound the next day, as well as today but he is walking a bit guarded and is not as peppy. Would it be possible, even two months later in November that his Pergolide dosing is not correct? He is also sweating (the last two days) while he eats his dinner soaked hay. No changes in feed, no pulse changes, just walking more guarded in his paddock and the sweating. I am trying to rule out if his ATCH levels can change this time of year (novemeber) and his Pergolide may not be correct (needs more), or if he overdid his workout on the line which made him footsore and the sweating is just weather related since he does have a winter coat and its 51 degrees out while eating. Any opinions, or personal experience would be appreciated!


Caryn 
Spet 2013
Washington State


Re: High Protein

jgpigger
 

 Hi Kathleen


>Hays that test with unusually high protein - in the mid to upper teens for crude protein - might be worth testing for nitrates if the hay is known to be fertilized and nitrate accumulation can be a problem for pregnant mares.


I asked Dr. K about the protein in grass hay on her e-mag group but never got an answer, so I am wondering if you knew.


The hay that I was wondering about is grass hay, 12% protein (I have tested alot of hay around my area and have never seen grass hay higher than 6.5%) so I was wondering how this hay could be so high.


Do you think its the nitrates? that would make this hay more higher than the others? thanks candy 2013 MI



---In equinecushings@..., <katmando@...> wrote:

I wouldn't consider it dangerous - definitely too strong a word. First, it depends on what you're feeding. If you're feeding a hay with low protein, you may need to supplement - some use dried split peas for example - great source of protein and has some crunch. 


Hays that test with unusually high protein - in the mid to upper teens for crude protein - might be worth testing for nitrates if the hay is known to be fertilized and nitrate accumulation can be a problem for pregnant mares. 


Bottom line, you should know the protein content of your forage (6.3% in January 2013?) and then factor in your TC 30. If you're still using that hay, then the TC 30% should be fine.


Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)

Director, ECIR, Inc.

Missouri - Dec 2005






There was recently a post that said high protein is dangerous to IR horses.  I've recently had to switch to TC 30%.  Can someone tell me why high protein is dangerous?


Debbie, Cooper, Butterscotch and Beau
CT, October 2012

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Cooper%20and%20Debbie/


how to feed hay in cold weather

goldencowgirl2468@...
 

I am wondering what others do for their hay feeding in cold weather. Currently I am soaking my hay, 2 horses, 18lbs each, feeding them about 6 different portions throughout the day. I live in Northern Wisconsin, so very soon my hay soaking season is going to come to an end. My ESC level on my hay sample was 9.0 so I don't necessarily have to soak but they tend to eat it slower if I do it this way. I need some advice on how to feed them so they won't gobble down their dry hay and someway to eliminate me from having to go out there 6+ times a day to feed when it gets 22below here. Thank U

 

Amanda, TerraCotta, Orianna

Wisconsin

April 2013


Re: Stabul 1 can be ordered at Tractor Supply

gypsylassie
 

 

---In EquineCushings@..., <equinecushings@...> wrote:

Do you have any idea about the shelf life of Stabul 1???  If I ordered 10 bags, it would be lasting me for 3-4 months and I'm worried that it might get bugs in it by then...  Guess I should call them and ask.  
>>

Hi Ferne, Valletta's post mentions 8 mnths, but that Randy said the flavoring could lose strength before that.  So may depend on how "picky" each horse is.  Is there anyone nearby who could share a shipment with you?
Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL.2011


Re: Hold off on Move-Ease?

Nancy C
 

Hi Laura

You can always check with the company, but no, nothing in Movease has been reported to cause stomach upset.

 

It's not like NSAIDs typically used for arthritis.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.

www.ECIRhorse.org

Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup



Re: Stabul 1 can be ordered at Tractor Supply

Nancy C
 

Hi Ferne

When first bringing it here to NH, the company said six months. 

We went through it much faster than that.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.

www.ECIRhorse.org

Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup


Re: Iron and Leptin Testing in the UK

dnlf@...
 

Hi Ange,
Will be interesting to see if they now have the equine ferritin test available.

Thanks for the update.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

 


Re: Iron and Leptin Testing in the UK

Lesley Fraser
 

I was hoping Liphook might have completed the work on the Leptin test by now, but hopefully it won't be too much longer before it's available to us. Good news about the iron, though - thanks for the update.
Best wishes
Lesley & Omar
UK, 2012

On 1 Nov 2013, at 14:04, <angemoore100@...> <angemoore100@...> wrote:


Hi, thought I'd just post to let those of you in the UK know...


Liphook can now test Iron levels (still waiting for my results to see exactly what they cover in their test) and are also working on a Leptin test, although it's not yet commercially available from them.


Not sure how long they've been doing Iron, so some of you may already know about it, but thought I'd post, just in case, as my vet didn't know about it until he asked them.


Cheers,

Ange and Millie Moore

UK, joined Sept 2013



Re: Stabul 1 can be ordered at Tractor Supply

gypsylassie
 

 



---In EquineCushings@..., <equinecushings@...> wrote:

One more bit of clarification........I just spoke with Randy at Anderson Feed.  The 10 bag minimum is for the store - not the individual.  In other words, the store must commit to 10 bags, not you.  If you can line up a couple of people in your area.....
>>

Stabul 1 is also still available at any local feed store that is willing to order for us.
Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL.2011


Re: Got some questions

dnlf@...
 

Hi Kathy,

No, you need the ESC+Starch numbers for anything that you are going to feed. NSC was the old method used to measure sugar/starch before the testing was able to differentiate between the various sugar fractions. The NSC number is still being used by many feed companies but doesn't provide the best information you need.


Would you please remember to add your year of joining to your signature. Helps us know where you are in your "journey". Appreciate your help with this.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team





Re: Stabul 1 can be ordered at Tractor Supply

Valletta Lochridge
 

One more bit of clarification........I just spoke with Randy at Anderson Feed.  The 10 bag minimum is for the store - not the individual.  In other words, the store must commit to 10 bags, not you.  If you can line up a couple of people in your area who are interested in using the Stabul 1, the TSC manager might be more comfortable ordering the 10 bags.  The manager can call the TSC corporate office or Anderson Feed for assistance placing the order.  The shelf life of the bagged feed is 8-10 months but Randy says that the flavoring will start to lose potency sooner than that.  Woo Hoo!  My sample is on the way!

Valletta with Dot, Roscoe and Nick in central CA
Jan 2012


Re: Stabul 1 can be ordered at Tractor Supply

ferne fedeli
 

Do you have any idea about the shelf life of Stabul 1???  If I ordered 10 bags, it would be lasting me for 3-4 months and I'm worried that it might get bugs in it by then...  Guess I should call them and ask.
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010


On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 5:05 AM, <kathbrink@...> wrote:
 

Hi Jennifer,


I spoke with Anderson Feed yesterday (Thursday, 10/31) and I was told that one could order Stabul 1 through any Tractor Supply store across the country.  I was, also, told it was a 10 bag minimum. 


Laura's suggestion to get a free sample from Anderson Feed is a good idea.  



Kathy Brinkerhoff


SE/WI  10/12






---In EquineCushings@..., <equinecushings@...> wrote:

I was just talking to Anderson Feed and they said we can now get Stabul 1 at Tractor Supply.  It's a special order item and requires a 10 bag order, but it definitely is now available.  Just have to talk to the store manager and if they're hesitant, they can call Anderson Feed to set up delivery.  Probably a good idea to get the free sample of Stabul 1 from Anderson Feed just to be sure the horse likes it. 
Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL.2011



Hold off on Move-Ease?

lauramollrich
 

I had my vet come do a check-up on P about two weeks ago because he has been really grumpy.  (She also does acupuncture with stimulus.)  We didn't want to scope him because of stress.  He has been on a course of two weeks of UlcerGard and is feeling much happier--not so girthy. 

 

He has been getting Move-Ease for a long time (over a year) because I believe in it.  I notice a difference if I don't give it to him for a week because I forgot to order.

 

My question is, during the healing time of his ulcer(s) should I hold off on giving him the Move-Ease?  I know that the ingredients are proprietary (don't care because it works!), but is there anything in there that can make his stomach irritated?

 

Thanks,

 

Laura

Laguna Beach, CA

1/2012

 

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Laura%20Mollrich/


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ThePitchforkPrincess@...
 

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2) Limit your signature to 3 or 4 lines.

3) Delete all but the part of the message you're replying to before posting.  Keep who is saying what clear by leaving the chevrons (>) in front of the text you are answering then type your response in a new paragraph below.

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Iron and Leptin Testing in the UK

Ange Moore
 

Hi,  thought I'd just post to let those of you in the UK know...

 

Liphook can now test Iron levels (still waiting for my results to see exactly what they cover in their test) and are also working on a Leptin test, although it's not yet commercially available from them.

 

Not sure how long they've been doing Iron, so some of you may already know about it, but thought I'd post, just in case, as my vet didn't know about it until he asked them.

 

Cheers,

Ange and Millie Moore

UK, joined Sept 2013


Re: Stabul 1 can be ordered at Tractor Supply

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Jennifer,


I spoke with Anderson Feed yesterday (Thursday, 10/31) and I was told that one could order Stabul 1 through any Tractor Supply store across the country.  I was, also, told it was a 10 bag minimum. 


Laura's suggestion to get a free sample from Anderson Feed is a good idea.  



Kathy Brinkerhoff


SE/WI  10/12





Re: Got some questions

KC
 

I guess I'm a little confused then. Is the number you looked for to check for starch & sugar
different for hay/grass vs grain? I have been looking at the NSC when evaluating grain
and thought it was the same for hay/grass. It sounds like it might be different numbers that I need
to look at for each.
 
Kathy in Ohio


Re: Requesting Blanketing Guidelines for Apron-Clipped Horse

gypsylassie
 

 



---In EquineCushings@..., <equinecushings@...> wrote:

Can someone please give me some guidelines for when to sheet, blanket, and neck cover my horse?

 

Hi Dana,

A few thoughts to add to the ideas you've gotten so far.  With my boys I don't rush to blanket because the horse's hair coat insulates well and is meant to "stand up" when it gets really cold. The blanket just mooshes the hair down and negates its insulating effect.  But with an older, thinner horse that is clipped,and has health issues,  a blanket may very well be needed.  I would just keep an eye on Lil Bit, (he looks like a sweet old guy) to see if he's shivering, or looks "all tucked up" trying to get warm. Especially if it's windy &/or wet.  As has been mentioned, I also watch the temps. When my old guy Cheech was still alive I did blanket him when the temps and wind chill got bad. (I can't remember the exact temps)  One time Cheech lay down in the snow (not blanketed that day) and fell asleep long enough to get very chilled, to the point where he was quite "out of it".  I got him to his stall and put a wool cooler on him, and once he warmed up, he started to eat and was fine.  But after that, I kept an even closer watch on him and the temps and wind chill.  I also would run my hand under the blanket to be sure he wasn't too hot under there either.  Any blanket or sheet should be waterproof and breathable.  

I haven't been blanketing my 2 current boys much,  but I do like using wool or fleece coolers to put on them when they come in wet and I have to feed their hay inside.  The coolers wick a lot of moisture off and speed drying time.  They should usually only be used indoors, you don't want a wet cooler on them, in the weather, and I have more than one for each boy, so I can change them if they get pretty damp.  I love coolers.  They come in contoured shapes that cover the neck, and are better than the square ones that cover the neck, but also hang down and can be stepped on if they're eating hay from the floor.   

Laura K Chappie & Beau

N.IL.2011



Re: Got some questions

PapBallou@...
 

Gad - I just had a message typed out and then it was gone.

NSC really doesn't tell us much.  It is water soluble carbs (WSC) + starch.  We need to know simple sugars (ESC) + starch since there are plant fractions in the WSC that do not play a role in glucose/insulin response.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004

 



---In equinecushings@..., <kmc_26101@...> wrote:

<Snapshot, yes. Sugar and starch, no> Linda, I went back and look at the reports again after I thought about your message a little more. The NSC values are there just not listed in the main part of the report.
 
1st Cutting - 15.37
2nd Cutting - 13.03
Pasture - 6.60
 
Kathy in Ohio

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