Date   

Re: Looking For Any Suggestions-Cannot Afford Horse Anymore

PapBallou@...
 

Where are you at?


Linda

EC Primary Response

West Coast

May 2004



Looking For Any Suggestions-Cannot Afford Horse Anymore

mrsmoriarity <torgo7@...>
 

I was hoping someone could think of an answer to this terrible problem. I have had Rocky since he was 3. He lived with us until we were forced to move for economic reasons to a different part of the state. He had very mild Cushings at that time. Since then, he got worse and was put on Pergolide. As everyone knows here, it is a very expensive medication.

I'll try to condense this--my hubby and I are both ill now with medical bills etc. Rocky's board is $300 a month (cheapest in the area) but his extra feed and medication brings it to around $500. All the rescues are full. No one wants a 33 yr. old horse, even if he was healthy.

I had a vet look around and try to find someone to take him with no luck. When he gets Pergolide he is fine except for occasional diarrhea. Never foundered, never had colic. The only sign of Cushings is his curly coat and muscle changes, which have improved greatly on the medication.

The only option now is euthanasia. I can't bring myself to do it, but there is nothing else. He's happy, calls for his food etc. He has been my buddy for 30 years, but because we have lost almost all our money we cannot maintain him.

I was wondering if anyone else has gone through this or has any ideas whatsoever. I am at my wit's end. Thanks just for reading this.


Re: Elevated insulin

Nancy C
 


Hi Martha

Try this post post which has further links in it.  


Short answer is no on resveratrol.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.


Check out the FACTS on Facebook

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc







Re: Whipoorwill Amulet - due for a trim - requesting review by hoof gurus

Ruth Vale
 

Apologies for the very long delay in response.  I've been offline due to a lengthy power outage.  Due to massive damage of several days of ice storms north of Toronto, I've been having a pioneer Christmas (no hydro, wood stove ablaze, and drawing water from the surface well, since last Saturday night.   Hydro just came back on and I'm jumping in here before (and if) it goes off again.  Trimmer is coming on Saturday afternoon.

I will reload thumbnail pics again - tomorrow if I can. 

Linda asked;
>Trimmer working to get him more upright...does that mean she's
>adjusting the hoof capsule to get a different stance?  Before anything
>is done to make something into something it's not, I would invest in a
>set of x-rays, at least of the fronts.

His frogs have been a mess with all the abscesses.  She leaves the heels alone, trying to let the heels grow and raise them a bit more (hence standing more "upgright").  She thinks he is still standing back a bit.  She does the "mustang roll" on his toes.  She has been moving very slowly - aggressive trimming isn't possible with him (I fired 3 farriers over that, now working with a trained barefoot traimmer) so he's generally done with a rasp rather than nippers.    Xrays coming in January.  Vet says he has a "short horn" - not sure what that means.  He's 15h, but feet are proportional to his size and weight with good quality horn.

>I see from the history that we don't have a definitive answer as yet as to if Bounce
>is IR, PPID or both.  Is the diet being addressed with low
>s/s hay, or soaked hay?

I have him scheduled for blood work in January 2014.  Diet has been somewhat addressed and I have him on 1mg/day compound pergolide.   Diet - removed all treats, moved to a low-starch feed and hay is low starch grass hay.  Not yet soaking - Bounce is boarded out, and the Barn Owner (whom I trust with my life otherwise) seems to think I've lost it. :}  Test results will bring her around if they fall where I think they will.

On the pergolide, I am seeing an improvement.  He's much more cheerful, interested and interacting rather than standing there with a glazed expression in his eyes and looking tired.   This week -- He's been his stall since last Sunday due to dangerous ice conditions (2" of solid, hard ice covering Everything), they've been cut off all grain, feed other than hay since then.    They'll be in for a few more days - the tractor isn't heavy enough (!!) to break the ice crust, so they are in until it is safe.  He's been a sensible boy and barefoot, so in search of a little safe exercise, I've been risking a trip across the barnyard to the arena and turned him out for a little free longing.   Lots of happy bucking but he isn't losing his head.

I'm glad to see his personality again, also the bucking and playing around when he is turned loose on good footing.  I have renewed the pergolide RX and continuing that until we get the blood test results.


Ruth Vale and Whippoorwill Amulet (Bounce) joined Sept 2013
Caledon, Ontario CANADA
 


Re: Twitter.. pergolide for non-cushings?

Lorna Cane
 

Not Nancy here,but it is Case History.




Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup


Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc






Re: Twitter.. pergolide for non-cushings?

bommenede72@...
 

Hi,


you wrote : What to do about it depends on the CH of the horse. 


What is th CH of the horse , what does CH mean ? Oops sorry for asking !


Greetings,

Zonne

the Netherlands


Re: Xrays - need advice

PapBallou@...
 

Susan -


Don't know specifically what the symptoms are with Colleen, but the x-rays show heels that are too high.  This could easily make any horse tender, especially if walking across hard pack, or frozen ground.  If that is the concern, would definitely have the farrier lower those heels.


I need to say that little feet seem to really shake the confidence in some folks when it comes to trimming.  It's as if they know the foot is not balanced, but then another part of the brain kicks in and says - can I really take that much off?  There's no foot left!


Sometimes the fear about lowering heels is due to an excessive amount of periople that has grown down onto the heels...seems to be a little foot issue more than the bigger feet.  When that happens, it appears as if the heels are right where they should be.  


But, periople is like our cuticle, and if not managed, can indeed extend way too far onto the heel.


Linda

EC Primary Response

West Coast

May 2004




Re: Twitter.. pergolide for non-cushings?

Nancy C
 

Hi Zonne


As well as the reading previously sent, do an archive search on seasonal rise.  Lots of posts from August-October. 


Some horses can be outside the so-called normal range at that time and return o so-called normal range in the spring. What to do about it depends on the CH of the horse. 


Hope you are not receiving private emails.  The group requests these conversations be kept on the list. If you have the question Zonne, many others do as well.


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.

www.ECIRhorse.org

Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc


Elevated insulin

martha williams
 

Can someone please advise:  Can resveratrol be useful, either
alone or adjunctively, to control EMS and high insulin? Can it
also provide anti - inflammatory function in laminitis?
  If so,  at what dosage/form?  Thanks.
              Williams/Dubrow. '08


Re: Twitter.. pergolide for non-cushings?

bommenede72@...
 

Or shouldn't be the reference value be much higher in september and october ? Here in Holland reference becomes 47 pmol at most in september and october.  But I have read some german articles in which they say reference is up to 235 pmol in those months.


Xrays - need advice

ThePitchforkPrincess@...
 

This message is being posted on behalf of Susan in CT, 7-2012For some reason she cannot post a message in the group.  I believe she is still getting the daily digest and I can post messages for her as long as is needed. 

Susan uploaded xrays of Collen's (her mini-Shetland) front feet and needs opinions/advice.  
Exrays are located here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/photos/album/191802520/pic/list?prop=eupdate 
Case History is here:

- LeeAnne, Newmarket, Ont
ECIR Archivist 03/04


Re: Twitter.. pergolide for non-cushings?

bommenede72@...
 

I will read the articles form the links.

So you did know that testing in september and october can give many false possitive results  on cushings ?

But then it is really not done from the pharmaceutic industry who makes prascend to give free testing during september and october isn't it ? They just want all the horses to have cushing, so they can sell prascend ???


I allready got 1 reaction from somebody that her horse had a high ACTH in september and in maynext year every thing was right again, without medication.


Re: What to say about this article ?!

Nancy C
 

Here re a few more posts.  Thinking especially about horses who have issues in August: ouch feet, top line loss, muscle issues, changes in work tolerance, running eyes, crest increase, etc.  It's not use about the coat as is well explained in the lsat link below.


http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/122832

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/124580


This is an excellent post


http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/topics/105638


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.

www.ECIRhorse.org

Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc



---In EquineCushings@{{emailDomain}}, <threecatfarm@...> wrote:

Hi Carol (I think it's Carol)


Don't for get to sign your posts.  Take a look at ecirhorse.org, specifically the page on seasonal rise. 


http://www.ecirhorse.org/index.php/cushing-s-disease/seasonal-rise


Re: What to say about this article ?!

bommenede72@...
 

Hi,


I am so sorry I forgot to sign my name under the reaction.


I know about the seasonal rise. But I didn't know that a rise is possible to above 200 pmol, and still having a horse without cushing for the rest of the year. I thought the rise was maybe 30 pmol or so.

But these group (39) of horses all but one tested positive on cushing in september and in may next year  none of them had cushing. With some having result above 200 pmol in september , and below 30 in may.


Greetings,

Zonne

the Netherlands


Re: What to say about this article ?!

Nancy C
 

Hi Carol (I think it's Carol)


Don't for get to sign your posts.  Take a look at ecirhorse.org, specifically the page on seasonal rise. 


http://www.ecirhorse.org/index.php/cushing-s-disease/seasonal-rise


The members here have found that ACTH fluctuates throughout the year, rising as fall approaches, first reported here in 2004. The group field info has been confirmed by researchers in the ensuing years.


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.

www.ECIRhorse.org

Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc



---In EquineCushings@{{emailDomain}}, <bommenede72@...> wrote:

I have just read a part of this article and I am in shock, kind of.

http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/equinebehavior/publixs/Papers/Donaldson_et_al_2005.pdf What is true in this article ?


What to say about this article ?!

bommenede72@...
 

I have just read a part of this article and I am in shock, kind of.

http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/projects/equinebehavior/publixs/Papers/Donaldson_et_al_2005.pdf What is true in this article ?

Do I understand it right that the same horses all have normal ACTH values in may and 38 of the 39 tested horses have elevated ACTH in September ?


Re: Duke Wishes Everyone HAPPY Holidays!

Elva J Mico
 

On 12/24/2013 4:31 PM, dwcoughlin@att.net wrote:
Duke just wanted me to write to everyone in the ECIR group and thank
them for all the support, advice and love he's received from you
cirhorse.org/images/Success_Story_11_-_Donna_and_Duke.pdf
This was so delightful to read and thank you for being so imaginative and clever to write this. And of course many thanks to Duke for giving you the idea.

Elva and Angel Satin
2004/NM


Re: Duke Wishes Everyone HAPPY Holidays!

ferne fedeli
 

How wonderful Donna!  Just loved the video of Duke.  He looks just great!
Ferne Fedeli


On Tue, Dec 24, 2013 at 3:31 PM, dwcoughlin@... <dwcoughlin@...> wrote:
 

Duke just wanted me to write to everyone in the ECIR group and thank them for all the support, advice and love he's received from you these past FIVE years. For those who haven't "met" Duke, he is a feisty rescue mini, probably in his mid to late 30s (he's been here 16 years this month). He came to be a "babysitter" for his two big brothers, Obi and Robin (IR). Little did I know how much he would teach all of u--and what a roller coaster ride it would be. His success story is posted on ecirhorse.org: http://ecirhorse.org/images/Success_Story_11_-_Donna_and_Duke.pdf

This winter the miracles kept happening: He was the "banner child" on the ECIR Conference banner, which was posted on the ECIR Facebook page. We struggled for the first time with high glucose, once again fine tuning diet, turnout and continuing to work on those little feet. Special thanks to Dr. Kellon for suggesting a slightly different calcium/magnesium ratio, to Nancy for hay balancing and to Lavinia for never giving up on his correct trim--and for sharing 50 bales of low s/s hay when my year's supply came in at 10.4% (yes, I'm both steaming AND soaking Robin's, but I knew Duke's would freeze to the ground before he ate it all!) And for my vet, who now listens to me ("whatever you want"), for agreeing to increase his Pergolide twice without any questions. Glucose is now in the normal range.

All these changes had major and fabulous results: Duke's appetite increased enormously, (best ever) and now he can't get enough ODTB cubes (which didn't interest him much before; he inhales all his supplements). The slight footsoreness in the fall has totally disappeared--in the youtubes below (taken today), he is running on FROZEN ground!!!! He rummages through everything when he gets into the barn, tipping over anything he reaches to cause a racket. He goes careening through the "field" (our backyard) for no apparent reason, stamping his little front foot (Mr. Studmuffin) and tossing his mane wildly. He did a "whirligig" behind my husband and then tried to kick him in the butt, his back feet at belt level (luckily husband thought it was funny, too!).

I am writing this not to just to say the most heartfelt thank you, but to encourage all of you who are still struggling, still figuring things out. It's so hard to see our beloved horses in pain, so hard to persist when vets and blacksmiths won't listen and when experienced horse people question why you don't just give up., and intimate that you are crazy or inhumane.

Hang in there! Follow this group's advice. The joy of watching things slowly fall into place is worth every difficult moment. I never dreamed Duke would continue to improve, but it as if he's 5 or 10 years younger this winter--and Dec. is when he typically would get laminitis.

HAPPY NEW YEAR from our little barn to yours. And heartfelt thanks to ECIR.

Donna Coughin, Duke, Robin and Obi
Dec. 2009

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory3/files/Donna%20Coughlin%2C%20CT/Duke%20Coughlin%20Case%20History/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEk3xvqykng&feature=em-upload_owner

p.s. Couldn't get the videos to post in the photo files in Duke's album. What was I doing wrong??



Re: Duke Wishes Everyone HAPPY Holidays!

Cindy McGinley
 

He looks great, Donna! Yay! Happy Holidays indeed!


- Cindy & Alf (with Entourage) in NY
ECIR Support
May 2006
www.blackhorseconsulting.com

-----Original Message-----
From: dwcoughlin@att.net
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 6:31 PM
To: EquineCushings@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [EquineCushings] Duke Wishes Everyone HAPPY Holidays!

Duke just wanted me to write to everyone in the ECIR group and thank them for all the support, advice and love he's received from you these past FIVE years. For those who haven't "met" Duke, he is a feisty rescue mini, probably in his mid to late 30s (he's been here 16 years this month). He came to be a "babysitter" for his two big brothers, Obi and Robin (IR). Little did I know how much he would teach all of u--and what a roller coaster ride it would be. His success story is posted on ecirhorse.org: http://ecirhorse.org/images/Success_Story_11_-_Donna_and_Duke.pdf

This winter the miracles kept happening: He was the "banner child" on the ECIR Conference banner, which was posted on the ECIR Facebook page. We struggled for the first time with high glucose, once again fine tuning diet, turnout and continuing to work on those little feet. Special thanks to Dr. Kellon for suggesting a slightly different calcium/magnesium ratio, to Nancy for hay balancing and to Lavinia for never giving up on his correct trim--and for sharing 50 bales of low s/s hay when my year's supply came in at 10.4% (yes, I'm both steaming AND soaking Robin's, but I knew Duke's would freeze to the ground before he ate it all!) And for my vet, who now listens to me ("whatever you want"), for agreeing to increase his Pergolide twice without any questions. Glucose is now in the normal range.

All these changes had major and fabulous results: Duke's appetite increased enormously, (best ever) and now he can't get enough ODTB cubes (which didn't interest him much before; he inhales all his supplements). The slight footsoreness in the fall has totally disappeared--in the youtubes below (taken today), he is running on FROZEN ground!!!! He rummages through everything when he gets into the barn, tipping over anything he reaches to cause a racket. He goes careening through the "field" (our backyard) for no apparent reason, stamping his little front foot (Mr. Studmuffin) and tossing his mane wildly. He did a "whirligig" behind my husband and then tried to kick him in the butt, his back feet at belt level (luckily husband thought it was funny, too!).

I am writing this not to just to say the most heartfelt thank you, but to encourage all of you who are still struggling, still figuring things out. It's so hard to see our beloved horses in pain, so hard to persist when vets and blacksmiths won't listen and when experienced horse people question why you don't just give up., and intimate that you are crazy or inhumane.

Hang in there! Follow this group's advice. The joy of watching things slowly fall into place is worth every difficult moment. I never dreamed Duke would continue to improve, but it as if he's 5 or 10 years younger this winter--and Dec. is when he typically would get laminitis.

HAPPY NEW YEAR from our little barn to yours. And heartfelt thanks to ECIR.

Donna Coughin, Duke, Robin and Obi
Dec. 2009

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory3/files/Donna%20Coughlin%2C%20CT/Duke%20Coughlin%20Case%20History/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEk3xvqykng&feature=em-upload_owner

p.s. Couldn't get the videos to post in the photo files in Duke's album. What was I doing wrong??




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Re: Duke Wishes Everyone HAPPY Holidays!

gypsylassie
 




---In EquineCushings@{{emailDomain}}, <dwcoughlin@...> wrote:

Duke just wanted me to write to everyone in the ECIR group and thank them for all the support, advice and love he's received from you these past FIVE years. 


Great Christmas video!!  Yipee, Go Duke!!  I love this little guy and love seeing how he's doing.  So cute how he jumps the walkway boards!!   Thanks for sharing this.
Laura K Chappie & Beau
N.IL.2011













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