Date   

CONTRIBUTING YOUR INFORMATION - HELP US TO HELP YOU

ThePitchforkPrincess@...
 

This is a very large group of horse owners with the potential for having a large database of information.  Well-documented scientific data (your case history) helps the ECIR Group gain the trust of science-based equine professionals and shows patterns that shape the protocols that helps so many PPID and IR horses and owners. Sharing your information is the best way to thank the ECIR Group's volunteers for their help. Please take the time to add or update your Case History.

 

 

HELP US TO HELP YOU:

For faster and more relevant answers, please include a link to your case history, photos etc, in your messages – to properly answer any questions the volunteers need to see a case history for your horse.

 

 

POSTING YOUR HORSE'S INFORMATION:

1. NEW Case Histories should now be posted in ECHistory8.

 

2. Full instructions and templates can be found in the main files in the folder
9 Case Histories

 

3. Keep your case history safe! Avoid losing your information by following the simple instructions and tricks for posting and updating case histories in the document “Warning for Naming Folders”.   

 

3. If you are updating an old Case History but there is no longer enough space on older history groups, feel free to move your information to ECHistory8.

 

<<< IMPORTANT >>>

4. Photos of any sort - this includes photos of text such as lab reports - should be posted in the PHOTOS SECTION of the ECHistory Group where your case history is posted.   

 Links to all ECIR Case History Sites 

 

If you had or have to move your Case History, you don't need to move your photos. Just be sure a link to them is posted in both your case history and your message signature.

 

Photos Sections cannot be searched. It is the responsibility of the uploader to note the url and provide links whenever seeking advice from the volunteers. If you are unsure how to do this see the document "How to Make, Save and Post Signatures and Links".

 

5.  Please check if you can add any information to the various Databases and Polls.  

 

For Neo Yahoo users, buttons/links to these locations can be found just under the any of the group's cover photos.

 

For Classic Yahoo users these buttons/links are located in the top left-hand corner of the screen. Or you can click these links:

 

Database

http://tinyurl.com/yfahmda

 

Polls:

http://tinyurl.com/yzt5sdc

 

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Team of the Equine Cushings List


Re: Pergolide and colic

Lorna Cane
 




>>MacFarlane suggested that it is known that pergolide influences the appetite of the horse and may cause them to eat less and therefore to drink less than they normally would.  Especially the reduced intake of water could then possibly lead to colic.


Did anyone happen to mention the use of APF to help horses who react in this way to pergolide?



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc




Re: Pergolide and colic

jannepauli@...
 

May I chip in?

In the recent webinar with Diane MacFarlane and Marion Little (BI) for The Horse.com the question of the relationship between pergolide and colic came up as well. Although there seems to be no scientific studies on this subject yet, MacFarlane suggested that it is known that pergolide influences the appetite of the horse and may cause them to eat less and therefore to drink less than they normally would.  Especially the reduced intake of water could then possibly lead to colic.

In case anyone is interested to hear the webinar, you can find this following this link: http://www.thehorse.com/ask-the-vet/33389/managing-horses-with-ppid-equine-cushings


Marianne/ EC2011/The Netherlands


Re: Need updated sources for artificial sweeteners

 

Thank you....are the flavorings at Uckele okay to give to IR/Cushings horses or should I call them and ask?

June
Oregon
Dec 2013


Re: feet --boot-- heat-- ice question

Emily Phillips
 

Good question about the boots Julie...  And how long their feet stay warm for...  The heat went out of Cheyenne's about the same time as her digital pulse went down.

 

I have read that some people now think icing / cold hosing etc is actually contraindicated for laminitis?  Something to do with the fact that it offers temporary relief but can actually prevent blood flow to the hoof which is also required for healing?

 

??

 

Emily, Cheyenne, and Saxon

Springmount, Victoria, Australia

Jan 2014


First blood results (34 days after starting Prascend)

Claudia Goodman
 

I just ran Silhouette's test values through the IR calculator - indicating she is severely IR (3.13). I was surprised since both G & I are mid-range, according to Cornell values. I'm trying not to freak out!
Could this severely IR ratio be somewhat influenced by drawing blood 4 hrs after breakfast? (My vet wasn't scheduled to come for another hour - for once, he was early!)
I slowly removed the small portion of alfalfa pellets (2 qts daily) from her diet over the past month. I hope this will make a difference in her insulin regulation. She is otherwise eating ODTC and tested hay (<10%NSC) with 1-2 cups of LMF low carb stage 1 to sweeten up her late morning ODTC-supplement mash. Her weight is down and she looks good. I'm hoping the lower ACTH will help the insulin outlook. Her feet look really good, she moves well, no pulses. I'm so surprised about the G:I ratio.
 


---In EquineCushings@..., <claudiagoodman22@...> wrote:

Silhouette's insulin and glucose values (non-fasting) appear good, and her ACTH has improved. I would appreciate any responses as to whether to continue the current 1mg dose of Prascend or consider increasing at this time. These samples were sent to Cornell for leptin level, but as leptin is not reported. Iron panel from KSU also not yet reported. 
Blood drawn on 2/23, at 9:30am, 4 hours after she was fed her usual grass hay breakfast:
Glucose: 89 mg/dL (ref 71 - 113)
Insulin: 28.42 ulU/mL (ref 10 - 40)
ACTH: 33.9 pg/mL  (ref 9 - 35)    (ACTH was 50 when tested just prior to starting Prascend. Idexx labs.)
I will update our CH as soon as all results are in.
Also… should there be any concern that the blood was drawn on 2/23 and received at Cornell on 2/27?
Thank you,

Claudia & Silhouette 2014 California

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Claudia%20%26%20Silhouette/



Re: feet --boot-- heat-- ice question

fionn@...
 


Has my directions for making your own ice boots using bell boots, polo wraps and ice bags from the grocery store. Might be easier than the peas???

Michelle Peck Williams & Fionn
Lexington, Kentucky USA
June 2012



 , trying to keep Ponys heat and thus inflammation down in her feet requires ice cold hosing etc. this makes, I have been vet wrapping frozen peas to her feet and legs e

.


Re: Need updated sources for artificial sweeteners

Mandy Woods
 

Ethlyn,
Try this:
Mandy in VA
 
 

Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2014 9:10 PM
Subject: [EquineCushings] RE: Need updated sources for artificial sweeteners
 


I think that Uckele continues to provide these products?
 
Ethlyn in Michigan
2007


Re: Need updated sources for artificial sweeteners

Ethlyn Vogler
 

I think that Uckele continues to provide these products?

Ethlyn in Michigan
2007


Re: Can't access CH

Mandy Woods
 

Karen,
I just opened your file.   Make sure this is the address:    https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/%20Karen%20Maruszak/   Give it time to load.   Try clicking on  FILE if it doesn’t open.
Mandy in VA


OLD: Newly confirmed PPID Morgan mare NEW: First blood results (34 days after starting Prascend)

Claudia Goodman
 

Silhouette's insulin and glucose values (non-fasting) appear good, and her ACTH has improved. I would appreciate any responses as to whether to continue the current 1mg dose of Prascend or consider increasing at this time. These samples were sent to Cornell for leptin level, but as leptin is not reported. Iron panel from KSU also not yet reported. 
Blood drawn on 2/23, at 9:30am, 4 hours after she was fed her usual grass hay breakfast:
Glucose: 89 mg/dL (ref 71 - 113)
Insulin: 28.42 ulU/mL (ref 10 - 40)
ACTH: 33.9 pg/mL  (ref 9 - 35)    (ACTH was 50 when tested just prior to starting Prascend. Idexx labs.)
I will update our CH as soon as all results are in.
Also… should there be any concern that the blood was drawn on 2/23 and received at Cornell on 2/27?
Thank you,

Claudia & Silhouette 2014 California

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Claudia%20%26%20Silhouette/



Need updated sources for artificial sweeteners

 

I've read old posts where people could purchase artificial flavorings but some of those sources are no longer active.  Can anyone give me any sources where I can find artificial cherry flavoring or others to entice a picky eater to eat her supplements?

June
Oregon
Dec 2013


Re: Feeding the picky hard keeper with PPID

Maggie
 

I am so sorry.  I don't know how I missed that your horse is a MARE!  Please think "her" and "she"  in all the spots that you see "him" and "his" in the note below!  Thanks!

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


From: spiral1957@...
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Saturday, March 1, 2014 8:01:50 AM
Subject: Re: [EquineCushings] Feeding the picky hard keeper with PPID

>New to this site......

Hi (?),

Welcome to the group!  Can you tell us your first name so we know what to call you?  We have a very specific protocol for PPID (Cushing's)and IR (insulin resistant) horses that we have found to be the most effective way to manage these metabolic issues.  It's called DDT/E and that stands for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.  So you have a diagnosis of Cushing's (PPID) but we need to know some more details.  Though PPID and IR are 2 distinctly separate conditions, they share some common and sometimes overlapping symptoms.  Additionally, a horse can have just PPID, just IR, or both, and then would need treatment for both.  The treatment for PPID is medicine (pergolide) and the treatment for IR is diet.  Those horses with both PPID and IR, and that is really not uncommon, must be managed with both pergolide and diet.  Your horse age of 19 makes him a prime candidate for PPID and his breed, Morgan makes him a prime candidate for IR.  We need to get some more details from you and we do that by having you fill out a case history on him.  What's his name too, by the way?  You fill out a case history at one of our sister sites here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/info  You will need to join that group but it shouldn't take long to get approved.  

 

In the meantime, a bit more information about our philosophy of DDT/E.  Diagnosis:  Is made through blood work.  To get a full diagnosis, we recommend having an ACTH, insulin, glucose and leptin levels drawn.  I guess you already had at least an ACTH drawn, since you already know that your horse had PPID.  There will be a place in the CH that you are going to fill out to tell us about the lab work you've had done.  We need to know where it was done, or at least the units and normal values, and you'll see a place to fill that in. The blood requires special handing, and more details can be found here:  http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-diagnosis  That's our website and contains a wealth of information on PPID and IR, so you should explore that website for lots more great information!

 

Diet:  Now, from what you've told us so far, this is the part I already know that you are going to have an issue with, so I'll explain the "why" of our recommendations..  The diet we recommend is a forage based diet--grass hay diet tested to under 10% sugar (ESC) + starch with minerals balanced to the hay analysis and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost in the hay curing process, ground flax seed and Vitamin E.  Now, that said, some PPID horses that are not IR can tolerate grazing.  But until you get a full diagnosis,  we recommend you start him on the emergency diet which can also be found on our website here:  http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-diet  What you DON'T feed in the diet is as important what you do feed.  No pasture,  no grain, no high sugar starch hay, no sugary treats, no apples, carrots, no molasses, NO OIL!!!  The total diet should be under 10% sugar + starch and under about 4% fat, which is about the fat content of grass.  The 2-6 oz of ground flax seed in the emergency diet most closely mimics the fat in grass as far as Omega 3:6 ratio.  Lots of us use rinsed/soaked/rinsed beet pulp to carry our supplements--the balancing minerals, flax and Vitamin E.  Some horses don't like BP (mine, for instance!) and a different "safe" carrier must be used.  I, and many others, use a product called Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes, which we refer to as ODTB's.  They are tested low sugar starch Timothy hay cubes balanced by Dr. Kellon.  If you add a little warm water to them, they fluff up and the supplements stick to them.  If your horse does like beet pulp, it's a great way to add weight to a horse.  It has about 1.5 times as many calories as hay, but a nice low glycemic index, so will not cause an insulin spike.  You can replace up to 1/3 of your horses diet with it to help safely add weight.  Not knowing where you are located I don't know if you can get Nuzu 1, but that's another great low sugar/starch way to add safe calories.  Anyone who carries Triple Crown products can get ODTB's and any Tractor Supply Store can order the Nuzu 1.  You can get a sample of Nuzu1 from Randy (815-732-3338) to see if your horse will eat it. And you could also use the ODTB's, which also have more calories than hay, to safely add weight.   Now, you are probably thinking that your horse is not IR because he's skinny.  Not all IR horses are fat!  Sometimes they are skinny because they are IR, and cannot properly utilize  the calories that they take in.  So the only way to know is to do the above testing.  Also, we know that a high fat diet can actually induce IR!  Also, alfalfa can cause footiness in some horses, so caution is advised there.

 

Trim:  Toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs the internal structures of the foot.  You are welcome to post pictures of your horses feet in the PHOTOS section of ECH8 and one of the hoof gurus can take a look and see if you've got a proper trim in place. 

 

Exercise:  The best IR buster there is, but a laminitic horse should never be forced to move!  You didn't mention if you've had laminits/founder issues, but please let us know and we can help you with lots of ideas.  

 

So that about sums up our philosophy!  We have over 11,000 members, some with multiple PPID and/or IR horses.  We know the DDT/E works!  BUT it's a paradigm shift for most people in their horse keeping practice.  The learning curve can be steep, but eventually, it becomes a new way of life.  You're a bit ahead of the game as compared to lots of other new folks in that you at least have a partial diagnosis, and it sounds like you've tested your hay, and you're already using flax and zinc.  You can also post your hay test in your ECH8 file, and one of the balancing folks can help you to get your minerals balanced--the excesses and deficiencies in the proper ratios.  Again, welcome to the group!  Looking forward to seeing your horse's CH!  Oh, and one more thing!  We ask everyone to sign their name (first is fine), their date of joining, and their general location to each post.  It really helps the volunteers to know who's who and also the location helps us to help you source products.

 

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


Re: Harvey

Emily Phillips
 

30 years Leslie! That is inspirational for us newbies still sometimes struggling to see the light at the end of the tunnel! Rest in peace Harvey. You are one loved and lucky pony.. xxx Emily, Cheyenne and Saxon Springmount, Victoria, Australia Jan 2014


Re: Feeding the picky hard keeper with PPID

janieclougher@...
 

Hi - as it happens, I have a little story about that exact thing.  My PPID/IR horse, Merlin, started dropping weight last spring.  I can't get Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes here; he was refusing his beet pulp; he was occasionally quidding, so had the dentist out.  Teeth touched up - no major issues.  I thought perhaps he was no longer able to efficiently chew long hay (happens due to lack of jaw strength in the older guys), so I spent  a lot of time chopping hay for him with our electric lawn mower (and a very tedious job it was!). Because weight loss, or lack of weight gain, can also be caused by a host of other things (kidney or liver issues, for example), or caused by uncontrolled IR or PPID, I ran a full panel.  Lo and behold: the ACTH was above normal!  Dang!  Increased from 10 mg pergolide to 12 mg; re-tested and it was still just a hair high.  Increased to 15 mg pergolide, and, like magic, the weight started going back on. He also started eating his beet pulp again.

So - the moral of that story is to search out the actual cause of the lack of ability to keep weight on. Feeding high fat foods will actually be counter-productive, because high fat diets can exacerbate already uncontrolled IR, and cause even more weight loss.  Test to make sure the ACTH and insulin are under control, and feed lots and lots of safe calories: low sugar/starch forage (with minerals balanced to the hay), rinsed/soaked/rinsed beet pulp and/or soy hull pellets; or Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes or Nuzu Stabul 1.

Ulcers can also cause picky eating and weight loss, but the ONLY way to heal ulcers is to use properly formulated omeprazole: either the hideously expensive GastroGard;   or Abprazole:
http://www.abprazole.com/       Other items can help prevent ulcer recurrence, but once the ulcers are there, omeprazole is the way to go.
 For good information about ulcers, go here:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Ulcers/
and click on the first pdf about gastric ulcers.

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC09
ECIR  mod/support

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/




-how do I add weight to a picky horse?  .......  I know if I get her ulcers in line it will help, but even that is causing me problems.


Re: Pergolide and colic

janieclougher@...
 

Hi - I am just a little confused by the wording in your post.  Did she colic more frequently when she was on the pergolide?  Or did she colic less frequently once she started the pergolide?


Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC09
ECIR  mod/support

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/



  Interested to hear if anyone has had problems of colic on Pergolide.


Re: Harvey

janieclougher@...
 

Oh, Leslie - I am so sorry.  Fly free, sweet Harvey, green fields and blue skies for you.

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC09
ECIR  mod/support

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/


 Harvey is happily in heaven without the darn muzzle!

Leslie and Harvey

VA 2011


Can't access CH

Karen Maruszak
 

I am new to the group.  When I pull up my group and click my name, a blank screen with only the headings pops up.  What am I doing wrong?

Karen - Taz

Beverly Hills, FL

2/2014


Re: Whippoorwill Amulet (Bounce) - ACTH test results and radiographs

Ruth Vale
 


That would be 1 tsp. (small scoop in the container)   .5 mgs.


Re: Whippoorwill Amulet (Bounce) - ACTH test results and radiographs

Lorna Cane
 



Hi Ruth,

>.  He has been on a pergolide (5mg/day) prescription since last November as a precaution.  

Here's a clickable link to Bounce's CH:

Just to clarify is he actually getting 5.0mgs of pergolide? Could it be 0.5mgs, by any chance?

I wouldn't feed Podium to a horse I suspect of being IR (or even one not suspected of being IR,actually).
The fat number is higher than we recommend,at 8%. It also contains molasses, oats, soybean meal - my memory has timed out, but these are not good ingredients for an IR horse.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc



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