Date   

Re: Need updated sources for artificial sweeteners

Ethlyn Vogler
 

Yes, the Uckele products are safe.

Ethlyn in Michigan
2007

Sent from my iPad


Re: Trouble finding your way around the ECIR Group lists?

bizzibizzigirl
 

Hi Lorna

Just a quick question about the brown winter pasture over there (I'm in Australia).  Why is it higher in sugar?  Does the sugar become 'locked' into the plant once your temperatures drop really low?  Our winters are reasonably mild by comparison over here (I'm in Victoria).  Our grasses remain green throughout, although dormant as far as growth.  We don't have too many nights below 5 deg celcius (where I am anyway).  

It was just interesting to see the reference to "brown, winter grass" - not something we see :).

Thanks

Lisa & Miami (Arab x RP)

Plus Condor & Woody (unchallenged)

Victoria, Australia – 2010

 

CH:   https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Miami%20and%20Lisa/

 

PICS:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHoof/photos/albums/846035640


Re: Whippoorwill Amulet (Bounce) - ACTH test results and radiographs

Ruth Vale
 

Correction - from the container - 1 scoop = 1mg/5cc daily.

Sigh.

Spring can't come soon enough.

Ruth


Re: Trouble finding your way around the ECIR Group lists?

Lorna Cane
 


Hi,

> I have 3 horses, 2 have had bouts of founder in the past. Have taken them off all feed and grain and am feeding only hay, salt, flax, and brown winter pasture. 

Please take them away from the brown, winter pasture. It can  high in sugar ,and  easily bring on laminitis.

Can you sign your posts,adding your location and date of joining the group to your name?
Add the link to your Case Histories,too.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc



Re: Trouble finding your way around the ECIR Group lists?

gloriaearnhardt@...
 

I am not computer smart and I cannot seem to be able to find the Hay Analysis Calculator. Soon I will be getting new hay so can't justify spending money on balancing this small amount of hay I have left to feed. I do know the values of this hay and would like to improve them. I have 3 horses, 2 have had bouts of founder in the past. Have taken them off all feed and grain and am feeding only hay, salt, flax, and brown winter pasture. Would so like to improve their diet until this new spring hay comes in. Can anyone help me find the Hay Analysis Calculator?


Re: Pergolide and colic

Nancy C
 

June, I would not dose the mare every other day, but rather titrate the daily dose as you have done with your gelding. Maybe you have other info.  If you do please share.  The  half life of pergolide, IMO, would make an every other day dosing ineffective and maybe harmful.

Hope Dr Kellon will also speak to this.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org

Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/non-profit-group



---In EquineCushings@..., <tjnishi6@...> wrote:

 I think I am going to taper her dose to every other day instead of every day and see if some of her symptoms subside.  I was not told to titrate her dose at the beginning so we went for the full dose.


Re: Pergolide and colic

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

---In EquineCushings@..., <jannepauli@...> wrote:

They did mention titrating in general; a good point - I thought - was their warning that smaller races ( such as minis, shetlanders and such) have been proven to be more sensitive to Prascend....

= = = = = =

Should just point out here that if there is any actual "proof" of that statement it sure hasn't been published anywhere. Specifically, there is no evidence to suggest that ponies, minis, etc. are more likely to have side effects on dosages correctly adjusted for size - at least not for pergolide in general. If Prascend per se, because of the way it dissolves and is absorbed, is a specific problem compared to other forms of pergolide, that would need to be determined.

This group is the largest clinical database for PPID/IR in the world. If there was an increased prevalence of colic in horses on pergolide I think we would have seen it by now.  The only thing even remotely approaching a study of pergolide side effects is the long term data submitted to the FDA for Prascend. There, the incidence of colic was no different than what has been reported in several studies for the equine population in general.


Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: Pergolide and colic

 

oh thank you...I was not aware that the Prascend could be more sensitive to minis.  I think I am going to taper her dose to every other day instead of every day and see if some of her symptoms subside.  I was not told to titrate her dose at the beginning so we went for the full dose.  My other mini has also been diagnosed as Cushings and for him, I have been titrating his dose and so far no problems.  Live and learn!

June
Oregon
Dec 2013


Re: Pergolide and colic

jannepauli@...
 

You are so right - thank goodness the information on ECIR is so available!

No mention of titrating - just a kind of 'hang in there' response in the sense of 'it will probably pass and get better..' at least regarding the colic problem...

They did mention titrating in general; a good point - I thought - was their warning that smaller races ( such as minis, shetlanders and such) have been proven to be more sensitive to Prascend and they did say that if their was an adverse reaction to Prascend, one should lower the dose for a couple of days and then try to get back to the required dose.

Marianne/ EC2011/The Netherlands 



Re: Pergolide and colic

jannepauli@...
 

No Lorna, they did not. My impression is that they were rather against all kind of supplements and were just prepared to speak about Prascend/pergolide.  The webinar was ofcourse sponsored by Boehringer Ingelheim.

Marianne/EC 2011/The Netherlands


Re: First blood results (34 days after starting Prascend)

bigwhitevan2002
 




---In EquineCushings@..., <claudiagoodman22@...> wrote:

.>>>>>>>>>>> Her feet look really good, she moves well, no pulses. I'm so surprised about the G:I ratio.
 

I have the exact same situation with my " non IR " mare at least she was until I- on a hunch- had the vet pull blood on her while she was out testing my foundering pony, the ONLY reason I did was cause she is 20yrs and her hair shed out differently last year but still shed out , just kind of like short rabbit fur instead of slick horse coat.

her G:I ratio has her in the sever IR range also, 3.4 , I did freak out a bit, but then logically thought it through, all this is telling us is that our horses are at high risk not that they are lamanitic , but they can be quickly and easily

,my mare is in heavy work right now, so I am looking ahead to when my kid is no longer on the equestrian team she *wont be worked so much, that's a factor to consider,-- her *ACTH was slightly above normal, another factor,--- she eats* what ever hay we have another factor,-- I give her Beet pulp, but *don't rinse it another factor,--- and the worst factor against her , is the * wonderful 5 acres we now own of lush Oregon grasses, that we had been turning them out on all summer to save the hay bill...

all of these factors will contribute to her risk and all of them I can change and have been changing so as to prevent the onset of what she is so high at risk for,
I think this is what the proxies are for , like a warning from your DR. that you are high risk for heart disease so change your life style

..I sound really brave in all of this but not allowing her access to her wonderful tree filled grassy field with an ugly taped muzzle is the worst...SIGH.,,,,ignorance was bliss....
just my 2 cents.
Julie 
Oregon 06

--


Re: CONTRIBUTING YOUR INFORMATION - HELP US TO HELP YOU

Angie Jansen <angie.j@...>
 

I won't be updating this horses file as I no longer own her.
But if I remember this Email address belongs to LeeAnne, is that correct?  If so, I'd love to take you for a ride in the Vivian when you have time.  I hear your horse is just a pasture puff these days so I'd be happy to lend you one of mine.

Angie
From Zephyr


To: EquineCushings@...
From: ThePitchforkPrincess@...
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2014 05:13:16 -0800
Subject: [EquineCushings] CONTRIBUTING YOUR INFORMATION - HELP US TO HELP YOU

 

This is a very large group of horse owners with the potential for having a large database of information.  Well-documented scientific data (your case history) helps the ECIR Group gain the trust of science-based equine professionals and shows patterns that shape the protocols that helps so many PPID and IR horses and owners. Sharing your information is the best way to thank the ECIR Group's volunteers for their help. Please take the time to add or update your Case History.

 

 

HELP US TO HELP YOU:

For faster and more relevant answers, please include a link to your case history, photos etc, in your messages – to properly answer any questions the volunteers need to see a case history for your horse.

 

 

POSTING YOUR HORSE'S INFORMATION:

1. NEW Case Histories should now be posted in ECHistory8.

 

2. Full instructions and templates can be found in the main files in the folder
9 Case Histories

 

3. Keep your case history safe! Avoid losing your information by following the simple instructions and tricks for posting and updating case histories in the document “Warning for Naming Folders”.   

 

3. If you are updating an old Case History but there is no longer enough space on older history groups, feel free to move your information to ECHistory8.

 

<<< IMPORTANT >>>

4. Photos of any sort - this includes photos of text such as lab reports - should be posted in the PHOTOS SECTION of the ECHistory Group where your case history is posted.   

 Links to all ECIR Case History Sites 

 

If you had or have to move your Case History, you don't need to move your photos. Just be sure a link to them is posted in both your case history and your message signature.

 

Photos Sections cannot be searched. It is the responsibility of the uploader to note the url and provide links whenever seeking advice from the volunteers. If you are unsure how to do this see the document "How to Make, Save and Post Signatures and Links".

 

5.  Please check if you can add any information to the various Databases and Polls.  

 

For Neo Yahoo users, buttons/links to these locations can be found just under the any of the group's cover photos.

 

For Classic Yahoo users these buttons/links are located in the top left-hand corner of the screen. Or you can click these links:

 

Database

http://tinyurl.com/yfahmda

 

Polls:

http://tinyurl.com/yzt5sdc

 

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Team of the Equine Cushings List


Re: Pergolide and colic

Nancy C
 

Marianne -

Thanks for this.  I could not listen to the presentation and hope to catch up this week.  The report on the lack of studies and linking colic to appetite and water intake does not surprise me in the least. Just one more area where this group has been leading the way in real time experiences.  We've known this for years.

I would add to Lorna's adaptogen question, "Do they titrate the starting dose?"

Probably not.
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/non-profit-group


---In EquineCushings@..., <jannepauli@...> wrote:

 Although there seems to be no scientific studies on this subject yet, MacFarlane suggested that it is known that pergolide influences the appetite of the horse and may cause them to eat less and therefore to drink less than they normally would.  Especially the reduced intake of water could then possibly lead to colic.


CONTRIBUTING YOUR INFORMATION - HELP US TO HELP YOU

ThePitchforkPrincess@...
 

This is a very large group of horse owners with the potential for having a large database of information.  Well-documented scientific data (your case history) helps the ECIR Group gain the trust of science-based equine professionals and shows patterns that shape the protocols that helps so many PPID and IR horses and owners. Sharing your information is the best way to thank the ECIR Group's volunteers for their help. Please take the time to add or update your Case History.

 

 

HELP US TO HELP YOU:

For faster and more relevant answers, please include a link to your case history, photos etc, in your messages – to properly answer any questions the volunteers need to see a case history for your horse.

 

 

POSTING YOUR HORSE'S INFORMATION:

1. NEW Case Histories should now be posted in ECHistory8.

 

2. Full instructions and templates can be found in the main files in the folder
9 Case Histories

 

3. Keep your case history safe! Avoid losing your information by following the simple instructions and tricks for posting and updating case histories in the document “Warning for Naming Folders”.   

 

3. If you are updating an old Case History but there is no longer enough space on older history groups, feel free to move your information to ECHistory8.

 

<<< IMPORTANT >>>

4. Photos of any sort - this includes photos of text such as lab reports - should be posted in the PHOTOS SECTION of the ECHistory Group where your case history is posted.   

 Links to all ECIR Case History Sites 

 

If you had or have to move your Case History, you don't need to move your photos. Just be sure a link to them is posted in both your case history and your message signature.

 

Photos Sections cannot be searched. It is the responsibility of the uploader to note the url and provide links whenever seeking advice from the volunteers. If you are unsure how to do this see the document "How to Make, Save and Post Signatures and Links".

 

5.  Please check if you can add any information to the various Databases and Polls.  

 

For Neo Yahoo users, buttons/links to these locations can be found just under the any of the group's cover photos.

 

For Classic Yahoo users these buttons/links are located in the top left-hand corner of the screen. Or you can click these links:

 

Database

http://tinyurl.com/yfahmda

 

Polls:

http://tinyurl.com/yzt5sdc

 

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Team of the Equine Cushings List


Re: Pergolide and colic

Lorna Cane
 




>>MacFarlane suggested that it is known that pergolide influences the appetite of the horse and may cause them to eat less and therefore to drink less than they normally would.  Especially the reduced intake of water could then possibly lead to colic.


Did anyone happen to mention the use of APF to help horses who react in this way to pergolide?



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc




Re: Pergolide and colic

jannepauli@...
 

May I chip in?

In the recent webinar with Diane MacFarlane and Marion Little (BI) for The Horse.com the question of the relationship between pergolide and colic came up as well. Although there seems to be no scientific studies on this subject yet, MacFarlane suggested that it is known that pergolide influences the appetite of the horse and may cause them to eat less and therefore to drink less than they normally would.  Especially the reduced intake of water could then possibly lead to colic.

In case anyone is interested to hear the webinar, you can find this following this link: http://www.thehorse.com/ask-the-vet/33389/managing-horses-with-ppid-equine-cushings


Marianne/ EC2011/The Netherlands


Re: Need updated sources for artificial sweeteners

 

Thank you....are the flavorings at Uckele okay to give to IR/Cushings horses or should I call them and ask?

June
Oregon
Dec 2013


Re: feet --boot-- heat-- ice question

Emily Phillips
 

Good question about the boots Julie...  And how long their feet stay warm for...  The heat went out of Cheyenne's about the same time as her digital pulse went down.

 

I have read that some people now think icing / cold hosing etc is actually contraindicated for laminitis?  Something to do with the fact that it offers temporary relief but can actually prevent blood flow to the hoof which is also required for healing?

 

??

 

Emily, Cheyenne, and Saxon

Springmount, Victoria, Australia

Jan 2014


First blood results (34 days after starting Prascend)

Claudia Goodman
 

I just ran Silhouette's test values through the IR calculator - indicating she is severely IR (3.13). I was surprised since both G & I are mid-range, according to Cornell values. I'm trying not to freak out!
Could this severely IR ratio be somewhat influenced by drawing blood 4 hrs after breakfast? (My vet wasn't scheduled to come for another hour - for once, he was early!)
I slowly removed the small portion of alfalfa pellets (2 qts daily) from her diet over the past month. I hope this will make a difference in her insulin regulation. She is otherwise eating ODTC and tested hay (<10%NSC) with 1-2 cups of LMF low carb stage 1 to sweeten up her late morning ODTC-supplement mash. Her weight is down and she looks good. I'm hoping the lower ACTH will help the insulin outlook. Her feet look really good, she moves well, no pulses. I'm so surprised about the G:I ratio.
 


---In EquineCushings@..., <claudiagoodman22@...> wrote:

Silhouette's insulin and glucose values (non-fasting) appear good, and her ACTH has improved. I would appreciate any responses as to whether to continue the current 1mg dose of Prascend or consider increasing at this time. These samples were sent to Cornell for leptin level, but as leptin is not reported. Iron panel from KSU also not yet reported. 
Blood drawn on 2/23, at 9:30am, 4 hours after she was fed her usual grass hay breakfast:
Glucose: 89 mg/dL (ref 71 - 113)
Insulin: 28.42 ulU/mL (ref 10 - 40)
ACTH: 33.9 pg/mL  (ref 9 - 35)    (ACTH was 50 when tested just prior to starting Prascend. Idexx labs.)
I will update our CH as soon as all results are in.
Also… should there be any concern that the blood was drawn on 2/23 and received at Cornell on 2/27?
Thank you,

Claudia & Silhouette 2014 California

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Claudia%20%26%20Silhouette/



Re: feet --boot-- heat-- ice question

fionn@...
 


Has my directions for making your own ice boots using bell boots, polo wraps and ice bags from the grocery store. Might be easier than the peas???

Michelle Peck Williams & Fionn
Lexington, Kentucky USA
June 2012



 , trying to keep Ponys heat and thus inflammation down in her feet requires ice cold hosing etc. this makes, I have been vet wrapping frozen peas to her feet and legs e

.

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