Date   

Re: Karen/Taz

PapBallou@...
 

Hi Karen -

We don't have the luxury of seeing your horse or assessing any of the things that may be causing him problems.  I understand your need to trust your team on the ground, and that is fine.  When you post something like "meltdown", we can't just sit back, but will get into high gear to help you as best as is possible.  We all take this seriously.  We all have been there, done that, and know exactly what you are going through, and probably more!  It's what keeps us wanting to keep you and all others and your horse(s) from going through some of what we have been through.  If you want assistance from us, we need to know exactly what is happening as far as D - diagnosis, D - diet, T- trim, E- exercise as able.

So please do follow the steps Nancy listed for uploading the photos into your photo album...

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: Karen/Taz

Valletta Lochridge
 

> If he's not off the bute, taper off.  You can use Phyto Quench for pain instead.
First - Karen, sending thoughts of healing and support to you and Taz...........keep your spirits up - you're doing a good job for him.
 
Unsure as to whether to start a new thread..........Questions about PhytoQuench:  1) I see Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) and Grape Seed Extract.  So these are ok in these amounts for  IR horses?  2) Is there a benefit to giving this along with Mov-Ease for pain control?  3) How long can a horse be on the PhytoQuench for chronic pain?  (arthritis and navicular syndrome)
 
Valletta in CA
Jan 2012


Re: Karen/Taz

Nancy C
 

PS...Meant also to say Karen GREAT NEWS about the dry track. That will really help once in place.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.

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Re: Karen/Taz

Nancy C
 

Most of us shave the wedge off the purple pad or use flat pads.

Do not give him grass until you know his insulin is under control.  It was sky high in February.  Throw his hay around in various places so he has to move to eat.  Even small piles in a turn out can encourage movement.

His back legs are weak from having to compensate from the pain in the fores.  Do some muscle therapy on him, either yourself, or call a muscle therapist.

If he's not off the bute, taper off.  You can use Phyto Quench for pain instead.

http://equine.uckele.com/phyto-quench.html

Loading pictures is easy.  Take the pics of the feet as described at the link below, then go to the PHOTOS section of ECHisotry8 to load them.  It's just a few short clicks.
Here's how to take pics

http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html

Here's where to post them
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory8/photos/albums
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/non-profit-group



---In EquineCushings@..., <karenmaruszak@...> wrote :

I had  Farrier looked at the boots and she did not like them, too high in the heel.  I got the soft ride with the torquoise/purple pads. 


Re: Karen/Taz

Karen Maruszak
 


Sorry, forgot to sign post again.

Karen/Taz

Beverly Hills, FL

2/2014


Re: Karen/Taz

Karen Maruszak
 

Here's what I am seeing.  He does not move around. If I leave the muzzle off he will graze and move about. The MINUTE I put that muzzle on, he's down.  His back legs are so weak from lack of exercise he can hardly stand. So which is the lesser of two evils? Grazing (limited and very short grass in this pasture) and up moving  or down 90% of the day? I am managing to get him up to at least eat his hay and drink. I had the farrier out on the 3rd.  She is one of the most well known in the Ocala area, especially treating laminitis/founder.  I can take pictures of his feet but do not know how to download but I can text them to somebody. Farrier looked at the boots and she did not like them, too high in the heel.  I got the soft ride with the torquoise/purple pads.  I know this is not what you guys believe but I HAVE to trust this farrier and my new vet.  I am so confused. BTW, we are scraping grass off of large portion of pasture today and fencing going up Monday for a dry lot. Maybe that will keep him up if he doesn't have to wear a muzzle.


Karen/Taz

PapBallou@...
 

I tried to answer to your post, but neo won't take me there.

Please post photos of the feet.  We need to see what they look like after the trim.  The x-rays aren't that bad so I'm a little confused as to why his reaction.  Often when a horse has laminitis, the worst of it may come after the owner recognizes something is wrong.  IOWs, it hadn't peaked, and sometimes that will still happen (continue downward) even when diet changes are in place, or medication as appropriate.  Then a plateau and healing.

Does he have boots/pads on?

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004  


meltdown

Karen Maruszak
 

This horse is breaking my heart. Please give me some words of encouragement.

Karen/Taz

Beverly Hills, FL

2/2014


Advice on Serrano please?

Kc <karenclarinet@...>
 

I don't have results of ACTH yet.

 But what can I do for Serrano? He is very lethargic... And...


Serranos neck tumor is growing very fast and has more than doubled in last 2 months and near lymph nodes at base of neck. 

Should I start increasing pergolide ASAP or wait for test results? It takes time to adjust dosages
and tumor so very aggressive...

So far he doesn't seem to be suffering from cancer...
Karen and Serrano
Sept 2012
update is test from cornel oct 30... Couldn't update history
ACTH 37.8
Glucose 110
Insulin 68

Sent from my iPad


Re: Carb overload question

PapBallou@...
 

Hi -

I have answered this a number of times, and see that none have made it past neo.

Give this a read -


Carb overload/laminitis is a separate issue, but nowhere near as common as laminitis from metabolic problems.  Carb overload is a potential problem for all equines - that's why we lock up grain/grain products.

Carb overload from pasture continues to be thought to be a significant problem, since that was the initial focus years ago when researchers started looking into pasture associated laminitis.  With the exception of possibly rye grass, and perhaps a few unusually sensitive horses, it is quite rare.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: Advice on Serrano please?

Nancy C
 

Hi Karen

Cannot comment on you blood work but I would not give red cell.

Would insist on getting the hard numbers from the vet and begin increasing pergolide slowly if it is warranted based on the numbers.

I would also think about adding APF or Ginseng as adaptogens but I want to flag Dr Kellon about adaptogen use with cancer patients.  It has come up before and I don't have a firm reference to check.  Don't want to use jherb but not sure if/how ginseng for example may differ.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/non-profit-group
 


---In EquineCushings@..., <karenclarinet@...> wrote :

I don't have results of ACTH yet.
But vet called this am and said CBC shows low counts and vet says likely ACTH is high and that he is severely anemic and to start red cell ASAP.

Serranos neck tumor is growing very fast

update is test from cornel oct 30... Couldn't update history
ACTH 37.8
Glucose 110
Insulin 68

Sent from my iPad


Re: History update

Lorna Cane
 


History update

JMF
 

I would like to update Miss Kittys history. She is doing fine. I have been swamped and just have not had two spare minutes to rub against each other.

I cannot find the link to get to her history. Could someone tell me how?

Thanks,

Jane Farmer and Miss Kitty

NEMS

10/09


Re: Farewell to my friend

aet001@...
 

Lisanne, I am so sorry for your loss.  I also apologize if this posts twice, yahoo black holes and moodiness.  I wish you peace and happy memories.  Fly free, Lacey, green grass and blue skies forever.  Amy in PA '06ish (Herbie IR, Darby, lost beloveds on HIH site Echo, Dylan, Pebbles, Cherry, Misty who was C/IR)


Re: Whippoorwill Amulet (Bounce) - test results

Ruth Vale
 

Lorna asked:

>Do you have any concerns about the handling of the sample at all? 
>I'm just asking because of the low insulin.

I paused at that reading.   Vet was aware of the protocols and I'm sure he did his best to meet them.  Bounce was the last patient of the day and vet planned to go directly home.  His home office is 15 minutes drive from the barn, and samples were to be processed and frozen on arrival and out by courier the next morning.  Temps were Very Cold (-15C high) so not sure if that affects anything.   He had results back to me within 3 days, so I'm sure every effort was made.   Any other answer is purely speculative.

Leptin reading is slightly elevated as well - that's a "watch" warning.

He'll get a practice to do this again - on the second draw, and if necessary on the third draw.  I'm right now down about $922 for everything so far, but it is nice to have science based answers and a few more questions.

Ruth Vale and Whippoorwill Amulet (Bounce)
joined Sept 2013
Caledon, Ontario CANADA
 


Re: Farewell to my friend

Donna Coughlin
 




What a beautiful tribute, and how wonderful that you shared your love for each other all those years. Fly free Lacey, along with all the others we have loved and who are dancing with the stars.

Donna Coughlin, Duke, Robin and Duke
CT 2009

---In EquineCushings@..., <lisanne@...> wrote :

Farewell my dear friend, beautiful soul. My life was forever changed by you and will be forever changed with your passing. May you run free now, without pain, through green pastures. You deserve that and so much more.

Melody's Merry Lace aka "Lacey"
05.08.1990-02.25.2014


 

Lisanne in Oregon

09/2010


Carb overload question

bizzibizzigirl
 

Hi all

On a local forum, there is a discussion about laminitis taking place and causes etc. and, of course, I've thrown in my two cents' worth (LOL!).  However someone's just come back with the fact that the info I've provided re IR etc is a different beast to carb overload and more geared around long term laminitis due to metabolic disorders.

My question here is:  if a horse without any metabolic issues at all ingests a carb overload, can/does this trigger a laminitic episode in an otherwise healthy horse?

I hope that's made sense.  I've been of the impression that there'd likely be an underlying disorder if an excess of grain triggered an episode in a horse that was considered to be healthy.  I'm thinking too of the horse out on lush pasture that doesn't develop laminitis.  There'd be a lot of carb in the grass too (?).

Just after some clarity as I don't want to be responding with wrong info :)

Lisa & Miami (Arab x RP)

Plus Condor & Woody (unchallenged)

Victoria, Australia – 2010

 

CH:   https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Miami%20and%20Lisa/

 

PICS:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHoof/photos/albums/846035640




Re: Whippoorwill Amulet (Bounce) - test results

Lorna Cane
 



Hi Ruth,

Do you have any concerns about the handling of the sample at all? 
I'm just asking because of the low insulin.

>Insulin - 4.06 ulU/ML (normals 10-40)
>Non-fasting Glucose -  80 pmo/L (normal 71-113 mg/dl)
>ACTH 2.8 pmo/L (normal 2-10 pmo/L)
>Leptin 5.15 (normal 1-4)


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
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Whippoorwill Amulet (Bounce) - test results

Ruth Vale
 

Blood sample was taken 2014-02-25.  As a precaution, since November 2013, Bounce has been on 1mg/5cc of pergolide powder dissolved in water and administered by syringe, with emergency diet supplement and a handful of Brooks Un-Ti to convince him to eat it.:  Regular feed is grass hay and once daily of 1 scoop of MasterFeed Podium (picking my battles with the barn owner):

Insulin - 4.06 ulU/ML (normals 10-40)
Non-fasting Glucose -  80 pmo/L (normal 71-113 mg/dl)
ACTH 2.8 pmo/L (normal 2-10 pmo/L)
Leptin 5.15 (normal 1-4)
Radiographs  - no significant coffin bone rotation.

 

G:I ration 19.70 (normal >10)

Insulin resistance, RISQI: .50   (normal >.32)

Modified Insulin to glucose ration (MIRG): 4.4 (normal <5.6)


Now tapering off of the 1mg/5cc per day pergolide and will retest in a few weeks to validate whether ACTH levels are being held by the pergolide or whether they are otherwise normal without help.  If those are normal, we will return to  non-medicated mode and retest again in the fall.  Horse currently appears healthy, symptoms which displayed in the fall no longer evident (except the abscessing - which continues).   I'm taking him off Podium and the emergency diet now that I have these test results.

Moving to 2lbs daily of Brooks Un-ti - he really likes it, available locally  and I can control the amount he gets if I buy it in addition to board fee..

Your thoughts?

Ruth Vale and Whippoorwill Amulet (Bounce)
joined Sept 2013
Caledon, Ontario CANADA
 
.


Re: Pics of Ponys feets.

bigwhitevan2002
 

Ha! Thanks Bob,
I actually have 3 rasps, I look at them once in a while, and have actually picked one up with intent and chickened out. I  think I could learn, its those clipper things they use to cut off the extra hoof that scare me...it would be difficult because of  a frozen shoulder as well as back issues due to a roll over in a truck  , but to quote Monty Python, 'I'm not dead yet." :)

I'll see how thing go Saturday.
Thanks for the confidence..
Julie
Oregon 06

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