I have answered this a number of times, and see that none have made it past neo.

Give this a read -

Carb overload/laminitis is a separate issue, but nowhere near as common as laminitis from metabolic problems.  Carb overload is a potential problem for all equines - that's why we lock up grain/grain products.

Carb overload from pasture continues to be thought to be a significant problem, since that was the initial focus years ago when researchers started looking into pasture associated laminitis.  With the exception of possibly rye grass, and perhaps a few unusually sensitive horses, it is quite rare.

Linda

EC Primary Response

West Coast

May 2004

Lorna asked:

>I'm just asking because of the low insulin.

I paused at that reading.   Vet was aware of the protocols and I'm sure he did his best to meet them.  Bounce was the last patient of the day and vet planned to go directly home.  His home office is 15 minutes drive from the barn, and samples were to be processed and frozen on arrival and out by courier the next morning.  Temps were Very Cold (-15C high) so not sure if that affects anything.   He had results back to me within 3 days, so I'm sure every effort was made.   Any other answer is purely speculative.

Leptin reading is slightly elevated as well - that's a "watch" warning.

He'll get a practice to do this again - on the second draw, and if necessary on the third draw.  I'm right now down about $922 for everything so far, but it is nice to have science based answers and a few more questions.

Ruth Vale and Whippoorwill Amulet (Bounce)
joined Sept 2013
Caledon, Ontario CANADA

 

On a local forum, there is a discussion about laminitis taking place and causes etc. and, of course, I've thrown in my two cents' worth (LOL!).  However someone's just come back with the fact that the info I've provided re IR etc is a different beast to carb overload and more geared around long term laminitis due to metabolic disorders.

My question here is:  if a horse without any metabolic issues at all ingests a carb overload, can/does this trigger a laminitic episode in an otherwise healthy horse?

I hope that's made sense.  I've been of the impression that there'd likely be an underlying disorder if an excess of grain triggered an episode in a horse that was considered to be healthy.  I'm thinking too of the horse out on lush pasture that doesn't develop laminitis.  There'd be a lot of carb in the grass too (?).

Just after some clarity as I don't want to be responding with wrong info :)

Lisa & Miami (Arab x RP)

Plus Condor & Woody (unchallenged)

Victoria, Australia – 2010

 

CH:   https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Miami%20and%20Lisa/

 

PICS:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHoof/photos/albums/846035640

Blood sample was taken 2014-02-25.  As a precaution, since November 2013, Bounce has been on 1mg/5cc of pergolide powder dissolved in water and administered by syringe, with emergency diet supplement and a handful of Brooks Un-Ti to convince him to eat it.:  Regular feed is grass hay and once daily of 1 scoop of MasterFeed Podium (picking my battles with the barn owner):

Insulin - 4.06 ulU/ML (normals 10-40)
Non-fasting Glucose -  80 pmo/L (normal 71-113 mg/dl)
ACTH 2.8 pmo/L (normal 2-10 pmo/L)
Leptin 5.15 (normal 1-4)
Radiographs  - no significant coffin bone rotation.

 

G:I ration 19.70 (normal >10)

Insulin resistance, RISQI: .50   (normal >.32)

Modified Insulin to glucose ration (MIRG): 4.4 (normal <5.6)

Now tapering off of the 1mg/5cc per day pergolide and will retest in a few weeks to validate whether ACTH levels are being held by the pergolide or whether they are otherwise normal without help.  If those are normal, we will return to  non-medicated mode and retest again in the fall.  Horse currently appears healthy, symptoms which displayed in the fall no longer evident (except the abscessing - which continues).   I'm taking him off Podium and the emergency diet now that I have these test results.

Moving to 2lbs daily of Brooks Un-ti - he really likes it, available locally  and I can control the amount he gets if I buy it in addition to board fee..

Your thoughts?

.

I actually have 3 rasps, I look at them once in a while, and have actually picked one up with intent and chickened out. I  think I could learn, its those clipper things they use to cut off the extra hoof that scare me...it would be difficult because of  a frozen shoulder as well as back issues due to a roll over in a truck  , but to quote Monty Python, 'I'm not dead yet." :)

I'll see how thing go Saturday.

Thanks for the confidence..

Julie

Oregon 06

Thanks Kim Halifax UK 2011 

The rehab trim is part theory, part feel, and part observe the horse.  Many of us trim because we could not find a farrier who could/would do "the rehab trim."  Is a rasp in your hands out of the question?

Bob

SW Washington, 2/13

I emailed the marked x rays to him, as well as the instructions that were written along with it, he has a couple of days to mull this over in his mind...he is not an old guy, just following in the foot steps of his dad, who retired so maybe he can be rehabbed himself..--- his little daughter loves this pony, and comes to ride when he is working, so perhaps that will be incentive for him to learn something new and improved..

Thank all

Julie

oregon 06

I don't seem to be able to trim excess text -

Anyway, raising heels to avoid DDFT pull is a long held belief that is almost impossible to shake from many folks who were trained in hoof care (including vets in school) up until the very recent pas.  Even now, it's dependent on how progressive the school is. 

If you've been using this gentleman for 10 years, he undoubtedly is of that belief.  You may or may not get him to believe you and he can readily point to a multitude of books that say this is what must be done if you are to save the horse.

West Coast

May 2004

The point is - there are many, many factors influencing the foot and not much is right or wrong - except for a correctly balanced foot in three dimensions!

Linda

EC Primary Response

West Coast

May 2004

I don't have results of ACTH yet.

But vet called this am and said CBC shows low counts and vet says likely ACTH is high and that he is severely anemic and to start red cell ASAP. She said white count moderately low nuetracils

and severe low lymphocytes. Red cell significantly low. She didn't give numbers... I know I should not give red cell... But what can I do for Serrano? He is very lethargic... And...

Serranos neck tumor is growing very fast and has more than doubled in last 2 months and near lymph nodes at base of neck. 

Should I start increasing pergolide ASAP or wait for test results? It takes time to adjust dosages

and tumor so very aggressive...

So far he doesn't seem to be suffering from cancer...

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