Date   

Where to send blood for titers

 

Last year I had my IR guy's titers pulled prior to vaccinating and I want to do the same thing now, but last year it was over $400.00 from the vet I was using then and it took forever.

The new vet is asking if I know what lab was used last year and I'd rather find out if you guys have any suggestions.  I'm in NC, not sure if that matters.

Thanks,
Wallene & Travis in NC Sept 2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Travis%20in%20NC


Re: Levothyroxine abstract, input please

Nancy C
 

Hi Teresa

I'm on the run, but try this.  Its about an older study but the info about use of Thyro-L may be helpful.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/topics/122591

If it helps there is likely more like this  in  the message archives. 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc



---In EquineCushings@..., <teresa@...> wrote :

Hi Everyone,
So, I questioned my vet about her recommendation to start Ollie on Thyro-L at 4x Label dose for his high insulin. Asked for studies and she sent me this abstract:

"Effects of pretreatment with dexamethasone or levothyroxine sodium on endotoxin-induced alterations in glucose and insulin dynamics in horses
Goth F1, Frank N, Geor RJ, Boston RC.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To investigate the effects of dexamethasone or levothyroxine sodium on endotoxin-induced alterations in glucose and insulin dynamics.
ANIMALS:
24 horses.

Teresa and Ollie
Lititz, PA


Re: devils claw flex

Nancy C
 

Hi Julie
Have you been pointed to the reading on jiaogulan and why we use it versus NSAIDs? 
You need to have your diet and trim in place for maximum effect but many, many members have born out the research that NSAIDs impede healing. this is a great post with a ton of good information on how to approach lameness and rehab, why NSIDs don't work, how to taper off them to avoid the pain of NSAID rebound and more.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/topics/58964
This is also a good one
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/topics/123633


Also see nitric oxide support info in the files

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Jiaogulan%2C%20Nitric%20Oxide%20Support%2C%20AAKG%20%26%20Supps/

Pretty sure James Hart has jiaogulan.

Need to think about the liquid pergolide you are using.  It is very unstable and losses efficacy quickly. Group recommends pergolide caps. Hopefully you are able to obtain them.
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc



---In EquineCushings@..., <equilog3@...> wrote :

Hi ever

 

Julie

Quorroblong NSW Australia

April 14


Shetland pony - possible Cushings

Michelle Le Grew
 

Hi everyone, I'm new here, just finding my way around. I have an aged Shetland pony mare, we suspect mid-late 20's. We rescued her four years ago, she was in the middle of a laminitic crisis with terribly long slipper feet. We resolved that with diet and correct trimming. She has always been laminitis prone, has had several further episodes, but I've been able to avoid laminitis all through last spring and summer using a lane way system with restricted grazing. She didn't shed her coat last summer, I clipped her and she grew her coat back in a month. She had a full winter coat by the end of summer.  She was also drinking more, and weeing more.  I have an old TB with Cushings so I was suspicious. About a month ago, at the start of our autumn, my pony looked a little sore also, but she had no grass in her paddock, and her diet hadn't changed. She is on a diet of low sugar native grass Hay, beet pulp, handful of Lucerne and a handful of rice bran. Ive now removed the rice bran. 2 weeks ago my vet did a Dex suppression test, he felt it would be safe, but the next day after the Dex shot she could hardly walk, and her feet were so hot they could have boiled water. The test came back negative. She has been in the stable ever since, and has been terribly sore, and on Bute. My vet has taken further bloods to test insulin/glucose levels, and also to do the ACTH test. I will have results in a few days. X-rays show a mild pedal bone rotation.  We started her on pergolide last Thursday. My trimmer came last Friday to slightly shorten her toes and lower her heels. Also to fit padded boots.  Saturday morning she was terrible, couldn't stand. Saturday night I could see an improvement, not so much shifting of her feet. Sunday morning showed a VAST improvement. She is walking almost normally on the rubber. Also noticed her drinking had tapered back to normal, same with her weeing, back to One or two a day, instead of 8-10. I'm delighted, but very puzzled.  Would this improvement be from the  Dex finally leaving her system, or can pergolide work that quickly???

Michelle L
Victoria, Australia


Levothyroxine abstract, input please

teresa@...
 

Hi Everyone,
So, I questioned my vet about her recommendation to start Ollie on Thyro-L at 4x Label dose for his high insulin. Asked for studies and she sent me this abstract:

"Effects of pretreatment with dexamethasone or levothyroxine sodium on endotoxin-induced alterations in glucose and insulin dynamics in horses
Goth F1, Frank N, Geor RJ, Boston RC.
Author information
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
To investigate the effects of dexamethasone or levothyroxine sodium on endotoxin-induced alterations in glucose and insulin dynamics.
ANIMALS:
24 horses.
PROCEDURES:
Horses were randomly allocated to 3 treatment groups and received 48 mg of levothyroxine mixed with 200 g of oats, 20 mg of dexamethasone plus oats, or oats alone (control) for 15 days, followed by IV infusion of lipopolysaccharide (20 ng/kg) while individually housed in stalls. Frequently sampled IV glucose tolerance tests were performed prior to pretreatment, after pretreatment, and 20 hours after lipopolysaccharide administration. Area under the curve for plasma glucose and serum insulin concentrations was calculated, and minimal model analyses were performed.
RESULTS:
Significant treatment-by-time effects were detected for insulin sensitivity (SI) and area under the curve for glucose and insulin in the 15-day pretreatment period. Insulin sensitivity significantly decreased over time in all treatment groups, with the largest decrease detected in the dexamethasone group. Administration of lipopolysaccharide further decreased mean SI by 71% and 63% in the dexamethasone and control groups, respectively, but did not affect horses in the levothyroxine group. Mean SI was the lowest in the dexamethasone group, but percentage reduction was the same for dexamethasone and control groups.
CONCLUSIONS AND CLINICAL RELEVANCE:
Insulin sensitivity decreased during the pretreatment period in all 3 groups, indicating that hospitalization affected glucose and insulin dynamics. Dexamethasone significantly lowered SI, and endotoxemia further exacerbated insulin resistance. In contrast, there was no additional effect of endotoxemia on SI in horses pretreated with levothyroxine, suggesting that this treatment prevented endotoxemia-induced insulin resistance."

I'm not sure how this is helpful since I'm not planning to give him endotoxemia...and the levothyroxine did not prevent decreased insulin sensitivity during Pre-treatment. Am I right in interpreting the decreased sensitivity from hospitalization would be caused by stress and perhaps diet, so is more similar to what we deal with in metabolic IR?

Trying to decide how to respond to the vet so I don't sound like an idiot...suggestions appreciated.

Teresa and Ollie
Lititz, PA


devils claw flex

Julie Lannen <equilog3@...>
 

Hi everyone, things are not going well at the moment for us but I am hanging in there. A new trimmer is hopefully coming tomorrow. I took Stones off bute last Friday but it was not successful – I tried the best I could to get devils claw powder in his feed but it just was not helping a great deal. I know there is a 24 hour window before things start to work but it did not seem to me that he was comfortable enough. Before I took him off the bute he was down to 2 mils twice a day.

 

Off bute he was very sore but also very sleepy – I know that the pergolide can do this for a bit as well but I suspect the devils claw had a say in it also. I also know that it is good for him to lay down but when he is up he has to be a little comfortable.  There has been no heat and no pulse really, except a slight pulse now and again in the foot that I suspect an abscess.  But he was finding it too hard to walk.

 

He may have an abscess I don’t know. But can I ask if anyone has tried the james hardy devils claw flex? http://www.equineherbals.com/products/devils-claw-flex.html

 

Cushings has been confirmed and I have been weaning him on to pergolide he had his first full 1 ml dose today. I will try and get the reports scanned and uploaded today

 

Julie

Quorroblong NSW Australia

April 14


Re: Cindy & Suz - Mini needing home

Cindy McGinley
 

     Well, even if we could get him someplace closer, I’d be willing to pick him up. As long as it isn’t farther than a day-trip.
 
- Cin
 
 
 

Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 3:46 PM
Subject: [EquineCushings] Cindy & Suz - Mini needing home
 


FWIW, there are hundreds of horse trailers heading north from FL right now as show season is done or winding down.  Don't know if you could get a good deal from one of the transporters to stick a mini (call it a rescue?) in a corner of a trailer that might not be full, but could try Brookledge or Johnson's (both based out of PA). 

Also, if anyone would know anyone hauling their own horses north from the show grounds.......?

Vicki
SE/PA 11/02


Re: Still confused about how to wean off of Thyroid medication

Carla
 

Hello Nancy,
Crystal clear now...thank you so much! :)
Carla and Cupcake
Dec.12/WI

Sent from my iPod

On Apr 19, 2014, at 10:27 AM, <threecatfarm@...> wrote:

 

Hi Carla.

Recommendations from the group are to slowly reduce the amount over six to eight weeks.  

.


Re: touch me nots..?

bigwhitevan2002
 




-Thanks for that info Dr. K,
She has been vetted through and through cant find a reason for the behavior,as far as pain...
But when we got the little mare a year or so ago , we had to keep her separated from our established herd for months, one gelding would have killed her i think, she is only 13hh, she was beyond the low horse on the totem pole , attacked constantly by all, mares and gelding,  we took it slow with turn out with the others, now she is with the herd and on occasion the gelding will attempt to go after her but she is as fleet as the wind and 10 acres is a lot of ground..for a big guy he gives up quickly .
  
she was not in a herd before we owned her but kept in a stall or separate turn out, Plus she was an orphan foal rejected by her mother and bottle fed ..

if you tell her to quit in a firm voice she does , she is not a raging maniac...I think she is like you say bullied and frustrated....

Thanks for the insight,!!! and the explanation of  "touch me nots", I am trying not to buy myself trouble waiting for this lil mare to come up metabolically challenged.
Julie
Oregon 06


>>>>>>>>>>Aversion to touch is definitely NOT a specific symptom of IR or anything else.

It often indicates irritability in a horse that is uncomfortable/in pain, but can also just be a personality trait, a token defiance of authority. A horse in a low position in herd dynamics may also transfer their frustration to their human handlers in this way.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Cindy & Suz - Mini needing home

reypunky
 

FWIW, there are hundreds of horse trailers heading north from FL right now as show season is done or winding down.  Don't know if you could get a good deal from one of the transporters to stick a mini (call it a rescue?) in a corner of a trailer that might not be full, but could try Brookledge or Johnson's (both based out of PA). 

Also, if anyone would know anyone hauling their own horses north from the show grounds.......?

Vicki
SE/PA 11/02


Re: touch me nots..?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Aversion to touch is definitely NOT a specific symptom of IR or anything else.

It often indicates irritability in a horse that is uncomfortable/in pain, but can also just be a personality trait, a token defiance of authority. A horse in a low position in herd dynamics may also transfer their frustration to their human handlers in this way.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: EquineCushings

Cindy McGinley
 

    I’d take him, but I’m in central NY.
 
- Cindy & Alf’s Entourage in NY
ECIR Support
May 2006
 
 
 

Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 12:41 PM
Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: EquineCushings
 


Thanks, Chanda,

I've done all that and more - it's just not in the cards.  sometimes i think i'ts better to just euthanize him rather than give him to a home that won't follow his diet and have him suffer a slow and painful death. 


Re: Still confused about how to wean off of Thyroid medication

Nancy C
 

Hi Carla.

Recommendations from the group are to slowly reduce the amount over six to eight weeks.  I know you are on only a small amount but it's better to be safe after you have worked so hard to get to where you are.

I would take a calendar and calculate I need to get to zero by week seven.  Measure out what each week is going to look like.

If you have a weight scale you could weight it in grams or milligrams.  A simpler approach might be to divide the current dose into quarters and use that amount for two weeks each, keeping an eye on her overall health as you go.

So for the next two weeks give her 3/4s of the current dose.  Then half dose for two weeks, then one-quarter dose for two weeks.  By week seven you'll be at zero.

Make sure she is getting adequate iodine and selenium.

Use Patti's scale of symptoms post to help you keep track of  how Cupcake is doing.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/111988

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc


---In EquineCushings@..., <joseywhales34@...> wrote :
Carla and Cupcake
Dec.12/WI


Re: my mini needs new home immediately

Chanda
 

Check with your vet, feed store and such places and see if they know of anyone, even a private barn that might be willing to take him on.  I'm sure you've probably done these things, but I'd hate to see you lose him, so just throwing out suggestions.  

So sorry you have to even think about rehoming Mocko.

Chanda

MT 9/04



Still confused about how to wean off of Thyroid medication

Carla
 

Hello,
My pony is on 1/4 of a teaspoon of a thyroid medication.  How do I specifically wean her off?  Do I just simply give her a little less each day...for how long?  Her numbers are great and she is sound.  She has been on a balanced diet since this group...MUCH THANKS! :-)
Thanks!
Carla and Cupcake
Dec.12/WI


Re: Can Horses with Cushings have problems with beat pulp?

PapBallou@...
 


Normally I am a huge believer in feeding beat pulp.  However I have noticed a change in how Stanlee products are having the pulp processed and the chunks are smaller and there is a lot more mollasses in it.  I contacted Stanlee and reported the change and the customer service folks were less than ambivalent about the issue.


Marion -


Beet pulp is probably the safest feed you can give your horses as far as low sugar/starch levels, but you have to process it to make it that way, although much of the sugars have been removed during the extraction process.  


If you are feeding shreds, first rinse the dry shreds to remove any residue, soak in clean water for at least half an hour, and then put shreds into a colander and rinse until the water runs clear.  This rinses away additional sugar that has soaked out of the shreds.  Feed.


If feeding pellets - you need to soak them until they fall apart into individual small pieces of beet pulp.  This can sometimes take awhile!  Hot water can hurry the soak time.  Also put into a colander and rinse until the water runs clear, and then feed.


Have never seen it reported here that beet pulp is a cause of ulcers.  If you read the emergency diet info, you'll see we highly recommend it.  BP is also the main ingredient in many bagged products.

 

 >>>My mare is doing fine and has no problems other than the hair coat and pot belly, but was curious if the added sugars could add to her problems if I were to start feeding it again.


Process it as above to minimize the sugars.  As with everything, there are exceptions to every rule, but BP shouldn't cause any problems.


Have you had the tests done to get a firm diagnosis of cuahings?


Linda

EC Primary Response

West Coast

May 2004

 



Re: Was New bloodwork, now NuZu

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Talk to your local feed stores to see if any of them would be willing to bring it in. If you can find one that is, then contact Randy at Nuzu to set up the details.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Was New bloodwork, now NuZu

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Vicki,

We are seeing about the same price here in RI. Anything in the 1-10 bag order is in the $35/bag range. We've been ordering 20 bags (half a pallet) and cost has dropped to $29.34/bag. Unfortunately, still quite pricey. Full pallet (40 bags) would be less per bag but still not great.

We're trying to see if we can get TSC to actually stock the product instead of it being a S/O to see if the price would be better but need more local interest before that can ahppen.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Was New bloodwork, now NuZu

Chanda
 

If you use enough bags, why not contact Nu-Zu (Anderson feeds) direct and see about drop shipment of a whole pallet (1 ton), probably worth checking the price (product plus freight).  http://www.nuzufeed.com/    The freight is usually what gets you.  [I had a pallet of Standlee hay pellets drop shipped from a store 200 miles from here a few years ago, freight was almost as much as the feed, but I needed it (at the time, I didn't have time nor a means to haul a whole pallet, so drop shipment was good).]

Chanda

MT 9/04




Re: Was New bloodwork, now NuZu

martha williams
 

I have talked to Mr. Anderson several times.  He is a very nice
man,  but the issue is cost of transporting the product from
Illinois to NY State.
     Dubrow/Williams. '08

97781 - 97800 of 280437