Re: Cory (IR) new test results, YEAH!

Lavinia Fiscaletti

Hi Paula,

Saw Linda's reply to you. One of us will get back to you shortly with more in depth comments. I've been having access issues with Neo :(

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

Re: Cory (IR) new test results, YEAH!


Paula -

I think the trim is pretty nice. 

I added two markups here:

 The toes can definitely come back so that they 'kiss' the white line.  There is a little bit of dead sole that has pushed forward into the small space the toe length has made, making it appear there is no room for more rolling or beveling of the toe.

The sole markup - follow the green line which is actually Cory's white line.  It disappears under a small 'ledge' of sole which is outlined in blue...a false toe callus.  Trim to this line with the toe up on a toe stand, and with the rasp, back the wall.  The red dots show how much wall can come off, both in the toe, and the heel/bar area.

It also appears that the heels are purposefully being left high above the sole.  There is a thought that this encourages sole depth, but only if the horse is in such squishy terrain as to let the heels sink to allow the coffin bone to achieve its more correct orientation with the ground.  Those feet look quite dry so this would not be a trim decision I would make.

Also on the topic of 'quite dry' - since I live in a wet, cold winter environment and a very, very dry, hot summer environment - the hoof capsule/sole/frog shrink as they lose winter moisture and they don't do it all in the same proportion.  I find that the sole/callus shrinks before the walls, often leaving a bit of a gap where the WL is, making it appear to be separated, just as what I see in your photos.  

I actually hate spring trims around here since this transition foot never quite looks the way I want it to.  Then come late May and all is well again when the horn structures are equally dry.

The toe- in - the DP x-ray from a few months ago demonstrates a M-L imbalance, as the arrows show from Lavinia's markups.  There also appears to be a deficit or remodeling of the outer aspect of the CB.  The orange lines highlight this.  I also think the x-ray is not quite perpendicular to the CB, so some of this appearance may be more technical than a magnitude of the problem.  

Purple circle shows small development of sidebone, which would be expected with a horse that is loading his foot/weighting to the outside as he breaksover toe-in.

Why he does this, certainly can't say.  Chiro, etc may relieve any discomfort that he has in the upper skeleton from walking a little 'out of kilter' but it is what it is.  There are so many, many toe-in, toe-out horses, (and people with conformational issues!)  and the worst thing anyone can do is try to correct this to appear to be 'normal' on a grown animal.  This is his 'normal'.

IMO, I would trim those heels to be more at the level of live sole plane so the CB can seek the loading pattern it naturally has.  Many feet with such a twist will begin to modify themselves.  I don't see a current photo of the RF sole, but in the photo from several months ago, he clearly is not wearing an odd pattern to his wall.  His foot works for him, and I suspect that it may only show a wear pattern when he gets too long. 

So, lots of words that really boil down to "looks pretty darn good!" and would suggest a few little tweeks.  Not twerks as I first typed in total error!  Darn keyboards!

EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Thyroid medication?-Really?


Hello group and hopefully Dr. Kellon too:

So once again my vet is recommending thyroid medication for my IR horse.   My horse, Baron, is very very IR. Despite correct, and believe me it is correct DDT&E, Baron has been Severe IR.   After a second bout of founder in 8 years, his G:I ratio continues to be severe.  He is a tough case and most horses on as strict of a regime as he is on would thrive.   He is rideable and has come through this last founder like a champ!  But, his insulin and glucose checks show that he is still at high risk.   They have been like that for years.  His hay is very low on carbs- about 5% and it is soaked, he has proper Vitamins and minerals, per Dr. Kellon.  His trim is excellent and he is exercised at least 1/2 hour daily.  So please please please do not tell me it is about his diet.  You can find his history in EChistory 3 under KrisandBaron

So, my vet is, once again,  suggesting thyroid medication.  Baron is a 4 on the condition scale, that is, he is NOT over-weight, in fact his ribs are showing.  Has anything changed regarding thyroid meds for IR horses that I need to be aware of?  Or is it still just something vets recommend because they don't know what else to do? 


Kris, Grass Valley, Ca 2005

Re: How long does it take to show results with pergolide?


Hi Michelle,

So good to hear that Shadow is making good progress.

When you were increasing the pergolide, were you increasing slowly, by 0.25 mg every 3 days?   This method decreases the chance of side effects like loss of appetite and dopiness.  APF helps with this too, so good you have added that, but will still need to change the pergolide dose slowly.


(Should you decide to try to withdraw the APF at some point, do that very slowly too.  Do not just stop it abruptly.)


If you were increasing pergolide in small amounts every 3 days, and he was still going off feed, Shadow may need to be increased even more slowly, and may need to remain on each small increase a few more days or a week before going up to the next level.   If you notice going off feed again, then go back to the last dose for a bit longer until he has stabilized, then try the increase again.


Thanks for the link to your case history. I noticed a few things that could be adding to Shadow’s problems…..


If you did not know, ACTH results from MSU have been found to be unreliable by a member on this list.   For years, her horse was testing normal at MSU, but began having symptoms of uncontrolled Cushings.  Then she sent identical samples to MSU and Cornell –  ACTH normal from MSU, but high outside the upper range at Cornell!!!  This scenario was also confirmed by Dr Kellon from other sources. 

    The CliniLab used for ACTH by your vet could send out the sample to another lab.  There is no harm in contacting that lab directly yourself and asking if they perform their ACTH tests in house or if they send out the samples to another lab, and which lab would that be.   Cornell is the lab recommended on this list since it has been the most reliable for test results and reliable results are vital to keep the Cushings under control.  There is free shipping to Cornell.  We hope you can convince your vet to use this lab next time. 


An IR horse on pasture, especially “grazed nubs” where the highest sugar is, needs a taped muzzle.


If this hay is not tested for sugar/starch, are you soaking it?


If “black oiler seeds” are black oil sunflower seeds, these are not recommended because they are much higher in the omega 6 fatty acids than the omega 3, and can promote inflammation, so it would be best to eliminate these.  High fat diets are not recommended either.  Now that Shadow is eating better, he may be interested in more hay for those calories, or you could increase the flax by a small amount if needed, but try using your other feeds first.


The recommended NRC daily iodine intake for a 1000 lb horse is 3.2 mg.  Using the full scoop found in the Source will provide 14 g of minimum 660 ppm product containing a MINIMUM of 9.2 mg iodine. This is 2.8 times the NRC recommendation, and likely contains even more.   Using 5 g of Source would contain at least 3.3 mg of iodine, and likely more, since this product is not standardized to provide a defined amount.


We add 1 to 2 ounces (28-56 grams) table salt to the daily ration to meet the minimum sodium needs  for optimum health.  We do not assume that a horse will consume enough on his own to prevent dehydration.  When on a hay diet, it is especially important to make sure they drink enough, and adding salt to the ration will promote this.  As well, if a horse does not drink well, he will also not eat.  So adding the salt to your  mineral mix might help his appetite and low weight as well.

If providing enough kelp (Source) to meet the iodine requirement, do not feed iodized salt.   


When you get in your new hay, make getting a good core-sampled analysis and a “Dr Kellon/ECIR style” mineral balanced diet with appropriate calories a priority.  Shadow really needs it.



SW Ontario

March 2005,   NRC Plus

Tooth extraction and sedation


I've scoured the messages for this topic and I've come up with quite a few but they are all over the board on context so here's my question --


Justin is getting a fractured molar extracted next week and he will be under sedation (standing) for as long as three hours. He's PPID/not IR and is on pergolide, J-Herb, MovEase, L-glutamine and balanced minerals. Currently he is also on Uniprim and pre/pro-biotic. He's also due for his Flu/Rhino shot but I'm not sure when to give it -- now or after the procedure?

When we did the Xrays last week, he seemed to handle the sedation "cocktail" (not sure what it was) fairly well but just wondering if it would be best to discontinue any of the above prior to this procedure?

Any advice on which sedatives would work the best would also be great. My vet is very cautious and I'd like to give her any info that may help. 

Thanks in Advance,

Alice & Justin

CO 2007

Case History update pending

Re: Introduction


>>No questions, really! Just hoping I am on the right track...

Hi Ali,

It does sound like you are on the right track, but you are right, there are some things you can do to tweak Oreo's diet. Sounds like Oreo is very lucky to have been given to you for "free".  Gotta love Craig's list, but we all know there is no such thing as a "free" horse :), as they usually cost you a bundle right from day one! 

Let me start by saying that case histories are more than just the "history" (as in past tense) of the horse.  They are like a "chart" on a patient, as well, where you record your diet, labs, management, etc, so that the volunteers can have quick access to the details when you have a question.  Here's a message that explains just why they are so important:  We are on ECH8 now and here's a link for you to join that group:  It shouldn't take long to get approved and then the instructions for filling out your CH on Oreo are right on that main page.  I might also add that joining the history group(s) allows you to read other members case histories so that you can follow along when other members are asking questions. You will learn so much from doing that!

So a couple of suggestions I have for you based on your initial message about what you are currently feeding.  And this is one of the things that I love about this group--I learn something new every day, and today it's about the Haystack Farms Low carb/low fat feed, which I had never heard of before.  I love the picture of the pony on their website!  And I love that they actually put the guaranteed sugar, starch and fat content in their guaranteed analysis.  The only other really important thing that I do not see there is the iron content. Since iron overload is quite common in our IR/PPID horses, that is some information I would want to know before I fed this product.  Horses get enough iron from their hay, actually more than enough, and we don't want any iron added to any of the products that we feed.  Also, they list rice bran and alfalfa in their ingredients list--2 products that we normally try to stay away from.  Alfalfa can cause foot soreness in some horses and rice bran has an upside down Omega 3:6 ratio.  But it also contains flax seed, which is what we do recommend to add omega 3's and 6's as it most closely resembles the ratio found in grass ~4:1.  Here's a site you might like:  You can plug just about any food into the search bar and find out all the information you'd ever want to know about it!

Now, for the Pounds supplement.  Here is their ingredients list:  Soybean meal, dehydrated alfalfa meal, linseed meal, dried cane molasses, cottonseed meal, brewer's dried yeast, wheat bran, Lime stone flour (Calcium carbonate), yeast culture, honey, lecithin, pasteurized whole eggs, coconut, coconut oil, ferrous carbonate, Zinc sulfate, Manganous & Iron oxide, Copper sulfate, Mineral oil, Calcium iodate, Cobalt carbonate (mineral salt), dried kelp, dried whey, cultured buttermilk, skim milk, almond oil, wheat germ, L lysine, and Vitamin C, ascorbic acid, natural orange oil(ascorbic acid)
LOTS of no-no's on that list!  So you are using that to build her topline, yes?  You should see improvement in her topline just with getting her on the pergolide and making sure it's controlling her ACTH.  If that doesn't improve her topline, we have some better (safer) suggestions for you.  But that brings me to another question--what was her ACTH?  Did you also do insulin, glucose and leptin levels?  Many PPID horses are also IR (insulin resistant) so we recommend all 4 tests to get a complete diagnosis.  If Oreo is just PPID, then her diet doesn't have to be as strict as if she also tests positive for IR, but it is something you will always want to be careful with.  A high ACTH can drive the insulin up and then the IR diet becomes extremely important as well.

So the diet that we recommend is this:  A balanced low sugar starch (under 10% sugar + starch), low fat (4% or under) diet.  So that consists of low sugar starch hay (tested to be under 10% sugar + starch) with minerals to balance the hay to the analysis, plus iodized salt and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost during the hay curing process, we use Vitamin E and ground flax seed.  The amounts of those ingredients can be found on our  website that Linda provided for you.  I hope you have taken the time to read the information on that website, as there is so much valuable information there!  Once you get your hay tested, one of the balancing folks can help you to get your minerals balanced to your hay analysis.  This is really the best way to feed any horse!  Here's a link to Equi-analytical where we like to have the hay analysis done.  You want the #603, trainers package for $54.

So I've touched on the first  2 parts of our philosophy, which is called DDT/E (Diagnosis, Diet, Trim, and Exercise), Diagnosis and Diet.  The next 2 parts are the Trim and Exercise.  You had mentioned that her hooves were long when you got her.  You are welcome to post pictures of her feet in the PHOTOS section of ECH8 so one of the hoof gurus can look and see how your trim is coming along.  We don't recommend any one trim, but to quote Dr; Kellon, "a proper trim is one where the hoof capsule correctly conforms to the bones within it."  Here is a website that shows how to take good hoof photos:

And Exercise is the best IR buster there is!  But a laminitic horse should never be forced to move!  You didn't say if Oreo was foot sore, but that you are looking for tips on how to make her more comfortable.  If that does mean she is footsore, then boots and pads may be in order until you can get her feet in better shape. 

Ali, it sounds like you are doing a great job with Oreo!  So glad to hear that she is improving under you care!  And happy that you found this group so that you can continue to tweak things for her so she can continue to improve.  Let us know if you do have any questions.  We are just a keystroke away!

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response


Re: Cory (IR) new test results, YEAH!


Help with feet, please:  I posted hoof photos to get an evaluation of how we are doing with that.  I tried to compare these latest ones with the mark ups that Lavinia had kindly done for us.  I think we are much closer than three months ago but not sure if we are there.  Trimmer says the coffin bones are in proper alignment now.  She is frustrated with his tendency to toe in and roll over the side of his hoof instead of the front.  

Paula -

Lavinia did your last markups.  I'm not certain she's readily available so will take a look a better look tomorrow.

About the toe -in...Cory has medial-lateral imbalance and remodeling of the coffin bone.  It may simply be that that is the way he uses that foot because of the internal changes.  Will post more tomorrow when I can look more closely.

EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: Cory (IR) new test results, YEAH!


---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote :

Hi Paula

I would want to talk with the vet about the handling of the April labs.  The reference range for glucose at Cornell is 71-113 mg/dL. Your glucose is low 

Nancy C in NH

Vet say she had to get new strips for the glucometer and that sometimes gives spurious results (!?!?).  I had not told her I was interested in the ratio of glucose and insulin.  She said the samples for Cornell were handled according to protocol and indicate that the diet changes have Cory in the normal range.
She did not detect pulses when she was out April 15th to do the blood work and vaccinate against rabies and flu/rhino.  When I mentioned that Cory gets sore on the stone driveway after a trim, she said he did not have much foot.
When trimmer was here on May 2nd, she felt pulses in all four feet, not bounding but there.  She said it indicated systemic inflammation.  I felt them too that day and for the next couple days.  Wasn't sure today...  I scraped the grass further back along the paddock fence line.  With all this rain, the grass is growing where it doesn't normally.  He is turned out with a taped muzzle for 45 minutes while I clean stalls and paddocks, so we walk a couple minutes down the drive, he often runs around a little in the pasture, trot and canter, looks sound and comfortable (and he is no stoic!), and I hand walk him every other day for 30 minutes (haven't been able to fit it in every day).  
Help with feet, please:  I posted hoof photos to get an evaluation of how we are doing with that.  I tried to compare these latest ones with the mark ups that Lavinia had kindly done for us.  I think we are much closer than three months ago but not sure if we are there.  Trimmer says the coffin bones are in proper alignment now.  She is frustrated with his tendency to toe in and roll over the side of his hoof instead of the front.  She thinks I should use a new chiro/acup/vet instead of my regular chiro as she thinks the problem is further up in his body.  She thought I could add some lateral work in-hand to keep us entertained and maybe open up his body after all this time on the paddock with little exercise and no work.  Still no tight circles or lungeing.  Would someone please give us some feedback on the feet?
Thanks so much to everyone for all the information and encouragement.  I get discouraged sometimes, but we have made a lot of progress.
"When going through hell, keep going."  --Winston Churchill

Paula  (Cory IR and Onyx no ECIR) in Bucks County, PA, USA

EC 2014     NCRplus2011 

Yahoo Groups


Re: Soft Ride Boots

Christine shelley

SoftRides have saved my boy last year and this year. Mine like the other above, patiently waits while I clean them out then relaxes into them when I put them back on. Even with shoes on!  He loves his boots. We keep them on all 4 feet as he s worse n the back than the front. Yes, I said that correct. His x-rays were worse in the back.  

Mine are no way for sale!  But I would recommend them in a heart beat!

Re: How long does it take to show results with pergolide?

Michelle Riley

Thank you, Eva.  I will put him on a once a day dose.  All last fall whenever I tried to increase his dose, he’d go off his feed.  His appetite hasn’t been the best for a couple of years.  Hard to get minerals and such into him.  He has been eating very well, it seems, since the first dose of APF.  I don’t know if that stuff works that fast or if it was just a coincidence.
There has been some improvement – small amount of weight gain, eyes still have goop, but about half as much.  Since, we’re using APF, hopefully he’ll be ok with the 3 mg once a day.  Maybe, he’ll show more improvement with the whole dose at once.  Thanks for your response.  I’ve been wondering about dosing.
Michelle & Shadow
NW Indiana
August 09

Re: Repost: advice on Mill's skin condition


Hi Nancy C,

I noticed the skin problem on 4-26 and started the antibiotics on 4-28. It will be interesting to see how things look after the antibiotics are done. Fortunately the weather is warm so bathing frequently is not a problem. Thank goodness this didn't happen in the winter.

Mill was getting 2/3 c of Omega Max through the winter when she was eating soaked ODTBC and more bp. Since feeding her Stabul 1, it has been harder to get the flax in. Wet and she won't finish it and dry it falls to the bottom of the bucket. I wish she would just eat what I put in front of her because I know best:)

I looked at the L-glutamine and that looks like it is worth a try.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Jennifer & Mill in TN

Jan 2011




Re: Introduction

Alissa Read

No questions, really! Just hoping I am on the right track. I can't believe how fast she has turned around with the things I have already done with her. She is really shedding out now and that is so exciting! And it is nice to have others who can give advice and understand how huge it is when you can change your horse's stall every other day instead of twice daily (whoo hoo!). More like, I am looking for feedback on what I am doing and conformation I am on the right track, and any other tips I can use to make Oreo more comfortable. As I don't really know her history there isn't much I can contribute to the case history file, I don't think. 

So yeah, suggestions appreciated and thank you for the welcome!


Re: LeAnne! help load a file... Introduction, Help w/loading history, Vet Search

Rita Creitz

Thanks!  That's not much at all!  Then that may be a good alternative for him.  

Rita and Houdon
Gaithersburg, MD
Sept 2013

Re: LeAnne! help load a file... Introduction, Help w/loading history, Vet Search

Rita Creitz

Yes, sorry, I knew that but wasn't clear in my response.
Rita and Houdon
Gaithersburg, MD
Sept 2013

Re: Sand or Pea Gravel?


FarmTek sells a non-woven "underliner," to quote the catalog, "constructed from 8 oz. gray non-woven fabric with 100% staple polyester and polypropylene." It is recommended for cattle and horses, for stables and paddocks and around water troughs. 1-800-327-6835.
We had so much mud during our very cold and wet winter here in Virginia, I am thinking of ordering this product to construct a mud-free dry paddock for year-round use.
Virginia/April 2014
In a message dated 5/2/2014 11:41:24 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, claudiagoodman22@... writes:



>So sorry it took me this long to get back to you. I had to take a sample of my fabric to the guy >who installed it so he could tell me the precise name of the material, and it took until today to do >that. It's called "stabilization cloth" (possibly stabilizing cloth). 

Claudia & Silhouette 2014 California

Antibiotic for IR, PPID horse

Sara Gooch

I need some help. My computer is old and the new Yahoo makes it nearly impossible to search conversations or the files. My IR PPID mare Felina is acutely, nearly non-weight-bearing lame on one front foot apparently from an abscess in the heel region.  The vet recommended giving her Bute and Ulcer-Gard and soaking in Epsom salts. She's in a padded EasyBoot on the abscess foot, but cannot bear weight on it long enough to get a padded boot on the other foot. I'm very concerned about causing laminitis in the weight-bearing foot--or both.  Right now she has pulses in both fronts, the vet said from the abscess and the excess weight-bearing. She had laminitis a year ago  after a pasture breakout from her dry lot.

The vet wants to put her on antibiotics when the abscess breaks and suggested trimethoprim sulfa or Exceed. Am I correct that neither is recommended for an IR horse? I've read the prohibited list in the file section.   How risky is the trimethoprim sulfa for an IR horse? What is the preferred antibiotic for an IR horse?  From what I understand, doxy is prohibitively expensive.  Are antibiotics even necessary when the abscess breaks?   

In a lifetime of owning horses, I've never had to deal with the acute lameness of an abscess.  Is there anything else I should or shouldn't be doing? I respect the veterinarian, but she isn't very experienced.  

Many thanks for answers to these questions.  

Sara, 2011

NE California

Re: Case history for Babe (old horse with PPID)

Lydia Lawson

Babe had her bloodwork in April and the vet said "it was normal" now. I asked for a copy but they have not emailed it so I'll ask again so I can let you know the numbers. She is doing well. I have a new issue however: She decided she does not want to eat the Timothy balance Cubes any longer. I hate wasting them as they are quite expensive. I wet them for her but if she doesn't eat them I have to throw them out since they were wet! She still eats the pellets fine but I know they do not have all the minerals she needs. Honestly I am leary of mixing minerals because of time and the shear complicatedness of it. Is there any other feed that has the minerals already in i that you all recommend? I would mix if I thought it was not too difficult to do a batch and I do it for the other horses too if it was less expensive. I just get brain dead when I read about it :-)

Re: 2 Pairs Soft Rides for Sale - OT

Nancy C

Hi Wendy and all members

Selling of items is not allowed on the main list. Not sure which hoof boot exchange you are referring to.  As far as I am aware, ECIR Group does not have one. 

You can post your boots here though

That may be where you have posted them.

I hope you can appreciate that with almost 12,000 members we'd quickly get bogged down in things for sale.

Thanks for your help with this.


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group

---In EquineCushings@..., <nobst@...> wrote :

I've submitted these today for listing in EC hoofbootexchange,

Re: Repost: advice on Mill's skin condition

Nancy C

Hi Jenni fer

I'm sorry Mil is having this problem.  I cant help but wonder about the sulfa antibiotic starting and the skin issues at almost the same time. Sulfa *may* interfere with copper and zinc, which are huge for skin. Hoping things will calm down once that dose is over.

In the meanwhile I think you can up your flax amount. Three to Four ounces is 1 full cup.  Some members, myself included have been recommended to give even more.

You could also look at L-glutamine.  Here's a message  mostly about bugs but relates to skin.



Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group

---In EquineCushings@..., <millionairess1989@...> wrote :


Are there any suggestions on what else I can try or any feed and/or supplement changes/additions that may be beneficial? I have uploaded two photos of the problem.


Jennifer & Mill in TN

Jan 2011



Repost: advice on Mill's skin condition


Advice is needed regarding Mill’s current skin condition. She is my pacemaker dependent PPID/IR 25 year old Arabian mare. I noticed Saturday that she was losing hair in front of her hip and beside her tail on one side. This is not a typical shedding pattern for her.


Now it has spread from her withers and down her spine with some flaking in her mane. The hair comes out with skin attached but the remaining skin looks fine. There is no crusting, oozing or anything like that. Mill is usually in the barn when the weather is inclement so I don’t think that it’s rainrot. She had her first spring bath the week before and I don’t know if that stirred things up.


My vet was out Wed for floating, vaccs and blood work. The cbc/chemistry was normal except:

Wbc                             low      5.2  (5.5-12.5)            

Lymphocytes              low      884 (1500-7700)

Fibrinogen                   high     297 (76-230)


Cornell labs from April 6th were:

Acth                            19.6     (9-35)  on 8 mg Pergolide

Insulin                         17.45   (10-40)

Glucose                       86        (71-113)


She was already on Trimethoprim/Sulfa antibiotics for the floating due to her pacemaker. The vet wants me to continue that for another week. His other recommendations were to bathe every other day in chlorhexadine shampoo and to deworm again. I gave ivermectin in February.


Mill is being fed timothy/orchard grass hay, 2.5 lbs Stabul 1, 3 cups r/s/r beet pulp with the following supplements:

2 T                   salt

1/2 T                Move-ease

1/2 T                chondroitin

1 T                    lysine

1 1/2 scoop      GI Conditioner

2400                Vit E  400iu

1/3 c                 omega max



Are there any suggestions on what else I can try or any feed and/or supplement changes/additions that may be beneficial? I have uploaded two photos of the problem.


Jennifer & Mill in TN

Jan 2011



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