Date   

feeding ODTB

beverly meyer
 

Thanks for responding Lorna to my private email. Still trying to figure how to ask questions, and how to access files on questions like this. 
I requested to join the ecir group so no history yet.
Meanwhile, question!  I got ODTB cubes for my laminitic mostly-toothless senior mare Ginger. She eats no hay.
When moistened/wet it makes a solid mush in the bucket as she presses her muzzle in to eat. How do you keep it fluffier so she can get into it?? 

I tried different amounts water and less is better but still mushes to the bottom.
She won't eat it straight yet so am mixing with Alfalfa/Timothy pellets and BR.  Thanks for any ideas.  Bigger bucket?  Spread out on a platter? 


Beverly Meyer
April 2014
Ginger       



Re: Movement in a Foot Tender Horse (was Stumped and Concerned)

larkstabatha
 

Hi Lorna... here is Tabby's Case History

Sally in N. AZ
April 2013


Re: Ofeig

s.coombes1@...
 

thanks Lavinia,

I agree that is what she had. I called it stress diarrhoea (like IBS) and she used to sweat up too like she's all soaped up in the shower in a trailer. I got her loading up nicely at several times but the journey makes her ill. I can't imagine what it must be like to be imported. I am going to try again but very slowly with short journey and me in the trailer with her. I'll get some APF from forage plus.

Sue Coombes and Ofeig

Yahoo Groups

 


Re: Cory's blood results

Deb Funderburk <hawkhilldeb@...>
 


Re: Movement in a Foot Tender Horse

Lorna Cane
 



Hi Sally,

>Grateful for her improvement and thankful for your thoughts....

Can you link her case history in your signature?

Glad she's improving.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc




Movement in a Foot Tender Horse

larkstabatha
 

Hello All...

From earlier posts, you may have seen that my mare recently had an inflammatory reaction, exact cause unknown.... possibly to her recent West Nile Vaccination.

After three days, her one swollen udder is 90 percent back to its normal size, and she once again has hollows over her eyes.

My question... she still seems to be a bit tender footed on hard ground.  At the same time, seems to move without pain on soft ground.  This being the case, is it okay to exercise her on soft ground and/or wearing her Renegade hoof boots with gel pads?

Grateful for her improvement and thankful for your thoughts....

Sally in N. AZ
April 2013



Re: Cory's blood results

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 


Hi Deb,

You are correct about the ACTH driving insulin. The vet has it backwards.

The hay is technically OK at 9.9 Esc + Starch but some horses would need that soaked. The problem may be that the starch is a whopping 6.1% in this hay and starch is converted 100% to glucose. The sugars are only 3.8. Starch doesn't soak out. The iron is a bit high at 118 - we prefer it to be under 100.

Any way you could possibly find some other hay?

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Ofeig

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Susan,

Here is a link to a brief description of Maladaptive Stress response in Humans:

Swedish Medical Center Seattle - Classes & Resources

Here is a more detailed one:

http://anthropology.ua.edu/bindon/ant570/Papers/Robertson/Robertson.htm

And more from Dr. Kellon:

In horses, the depression (which is chemically caused by cortisol) and increased susceptibility to infections and/or development of allergies are virtually identical. These horses are often misdiagnosed as EPSM, put on a high fat diet and the diet aggravates the mild IR from elevated cortisol enough to produce mild laminitis. I've seen this often enough that the first question I asked when I hear the story is “Was the horse imported?”. This horse is now doing very well on a low sugar starch diet and APF.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


 


Help with Tryggur diet and feet

barbaraa16
 

My second Icelandic, Tryggur Jarl, has been diagnosed as Compensated IR.  I have posted his Case History in ECHistory8.  His blood work was normal last September, but abnormal this spring.  The difference I believe is the amount of exercise he was getting last September as compared to this spring.


We have started soaking his hay and continued his SmartPak supplements (except the joint supplement) consisting of Ultra Calm and Vitamins.  He is not always eating the supplements.  I tried ground flax, salt, and AZ Copper complete but he turned his nose up at it.  He is also not thrilled with Beet Pulp.  I thought about using the Mountain Sunrise pellets we give our older IR Icelandic as a carrier, but wanted to check with the group.  Ontario Dehy Timothy Pellets are not an option as this point--it is not available through the area feed stores in quantities I could use.  Unless I can find someone to split an order, Stabul 1 is also not an option.


Also would love comments on his feet (photos posted today).  The farrier should be coming sometime this week.


My horses are boarded.  The folks there are very accommodating but there is a limit to what they can do.  They do not have storage for large amounts of hay so hay analysis would probably not be worthwhile.


Barbara

N. Arizona, 3/2014

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/echistory8/files/Barbara%20and%20Tryggur/

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/echistory8/photos/album/70422086



Cory's blood results

Deb Funderburk <hawkhilldeb@...>
 

Hello everyone-- I just got Cory's blood results. The blood was drawn four weeks into his laminitic episode. I am disheartened by the ACTH since we had raised the pergolide from 2 mg to 4 mg after his November blood draw when the ACTH was 89.8. These are his results: ACTH 69.7, Insulin 93.4, Leptin 5.4, Glucose 84. These are Cornell numbers.

The vet thinks the ACTH is elevated because of the high insulin, but I thought I remembered reading that high ACTH could drive insulin. Anyway, I talked him into raising the pergolide to 5 mg and testing in one month. Cory is on tested hay right now. I uploaded the hay analysis. He hasn't been out on grass at all since April 20, no treats, just the hay and approximately 2 cups of Triple Crown Lite a day (he thinks he will die without this). Is this hay not good enough? He won't eat it soaked. Do I need to cut out the TC Lite? I am afraid to tweak his food too much since I don't want him to stop eating completely like he did last summer.

On a brighter note, I did start trimming back his toe today. Will post photos in a few days. Thanks for everyone's help.

Deb and Cory in NC
July 2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Deb%20Funderburk%20in%20NC/
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory5/photos/albums/1275105710


Re: To pergolide or not to pergolide

Lorna Cane
 



:   KrisandBaron in History 3

Here's the link


 

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc




Re: To pergolide or not to pergolide

 

Thanks, 
my case history is:   KrisandBaron in History 3

Thanks,Kris 2005 Grass Valley, Ca


The hardest part is at the start and becoming a warrior

paulah@...
 

The hardest part for me with the IR journey was at the start, when I was trying to figure out who to believe and what to do.  It took some time and some unfortunate mistakes following vet's advice, to realize how much this group could help me help Cory.  There was a lot of information and some of it at odds with what I have done and have been taught over the years.  I just kept saying to myself, if ECIR group is wrong about needing to do all this stuff, and my vet is right, it won't hurt my horse.  If it is the other way around, following the vet's advise could kill him.  That kept me motivated when friends and family were kindly suggesting maybe this was a little extreme, like soaking hay when it was 8 degrees F...

Probably the hardest part of the four bases for IR treatment to accept was the trim.  I had worked with the same internationally known farrier for 25 years and he was so much better than other farriers I had seen, I was sure he was the best I could do for my horses. It was a real leap of faith to to switch to a trimmer but the radiographs and advice from this group, made that possible and Cory is doing much better.


It is hard to be a warrior for your horse until you are confident in what you are doing. The data driven approach and the number of horses this group has helped should give us the confidence we need so we can effectively work to get the service we need from the professionals we hire.  I don't know which is worse, the bullying professionals or the quietly condescending/undermining ones, but it takes confidence and courage and persistence to get the right help to bring these horses to good health and soundness.  The inspiring music and stories help!


"Most people are more comfortable with old problems than with new solutions". ~Author Unknown


Paula  (Cory IR and Onyx no ECIR) in Bucks County, PA, USA

EC 2014     NCRplus2011         

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Paula_Cory/

Yahoo Groups



Re: Prune Question & Blood Work Update

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Rita,

The safest way to add a link is to use the "insert" icon at the top of the reply box and then don't go anywhere near it again with your cursor or Neo uses that as an excuse to hijack you to the link - and your post goes POOF! You can type a reply into a word document and then copy/paste it into a reply so you have a safe backup in case Neo eats it.

I have one who's ACTH has been doing a similar thing for 3 years now. It's driving me crazy. I can get the numbers dead-center of the normal range during the seasonal rise but then it goes up during the late winter and spring. That is not PPID-induced rise but what IS causing it is a mystery. Haven't quite figured out what to do as it just continues to rise form there and then jumps again during the rise period. Not much help but know you're not alone in this. My boy's insulin won't come down tho, so you are ahead of the game there. Great that the Lyme is also negative.

Good job getting things together for Houdon.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team



Equus article "Genes vs Obesity in Laminitis Risk"

paulah@...
 

There is brief article in June Equus "Genes vs Obesity in Laminitis Risk" describing a small study by Simon Bailey, University of Melbourne.  They conclude that certain breeds are genetically prone to Insulin Resistance, even when not showing outward signs of EMS (Equine Metabolic Syndrome).  The final paragraph could have been stronger in stating how carefully some of these horses need to be managed, but it was still nice to see this published.


Paula  (Cory IR and Onyx no ECIR) in Bucks County, PA, USA

EC 2014     NCRplus2011         

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Paula_Cory/

Yahoo Groups



Re: Ofeig

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Susan,

You can either upload the entire lab report as a document or you need to ad the lab result numbers to your copy of the case history then upload the new version and delete the old one. You can't make changes to the copy in the file.

The photos are all there, just not showing up in theoverall  album/photostream view. If you click on the blank space it will enlarge the photo that is there. Why??? Only Neo knows for sure....

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team



Re: Ofeig

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Susan,

Do you subscribe to Dr. Kellon's e-zine The Horse's Mouth? There was an article in the Sept 2013 issue on the maladaptive chronic stress response. Adaptogens are the go-to: APF (Auburn Labs) or Jiaogulan were the two mentioned.

http://www.drkellon.com/thehorsesmouth.html

The trim is pretty nice overall. I can totally see why she would prefer leaving the heels higher - they are too low in relation to her toe height. When you look at the dorsal hoof wall and it appears to have a bull nose configuration - sorta bulges a bit, then moves back in, as it travels from the coronary band to the ground - that indicates that the rear of the coffin bone may be sitting lower than the leading edge. This is not what you want happening. Need to drop the height in the front or get the heels back up to the correct, relative height. It's a balancing act. Here's the link to your photos:

Yahoo Groups

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team



Yahoo Groups

 


Re: Ofeig

Lorna Cane
 



Hi Susan,

>I have loaded up photos of the whole horse and the hooves. 

Don't forget to sign your messages, adding the photos link  so we know where to find them.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc




Re: Magnesium

Lorna Cane
 

Kristin,check out the Getting Help With Mineral Balancing folder- https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/7%20Help%20with%20Mineral%20Balancing/ .

Scroll down to the last entry.

This will tell you about magnesium oxide.
The label probably won't tell you the dose.But it will tell you the percentage of magnesium in the entire product.Usually it is 56% magnesium.
This file explains where to go from there to figure out how much to use.

HTH.

Lots of good stuff in our Files.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc




Re: Magnesium

kristin@...
 

Thank you, Lorna.
will the label tell me how many grams per measurement?
Kristin
Colorado 2012

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