Date   

Re: Requirements for ACTH Testing?

ferne fedeli
 

Thanks to everyone for all the good ideas.  Since my (formerly) alternate vet said that she would do the draws for me, I guess I am okay for now anyway.  I will have some alternatives for the next time.  I will ask my small animal vet about the possibility of them doing the spin, etc. if I ever need to do that in the future.  I've been a customer of theirs for close to 20 years with lots of dogs and cats over that time, so they would probably be willing to help me out.  (Once I had to take a dog to this vet in the middle of the night and assist him in surgery...  Everything worked out just fine!)
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010


On Sat, Jul 12, 2014 at 8:20 AM, threecatfarm@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
 

You've gotten great experienced ideas Ferne.  Just wanted to add that it really made life easier for me when my vet taught me how to do the draw.  she is 90 minutes away from me.  I cn take it to the small animal vet  5 mins away and she will spin for me as a favor.  (I've been faithful to her for 14 years now).  I then freeze the serum and take to my equine vet for shipping to Cornell.


If you are not queasy about it, learning how to do it makes life a whole lot easier.


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc



---In EquineCushings@..., <bittersweetfarm@...> wrote :


Hi Ferne,
Any body can draw blood for you.   You,  a neighbor etc.  
 



Re: Saving soaked hay

Nancy C
 

Hi Melinda

Using the search box at the top of the web page window, I put in hay soak. Click SEARCH.  Int eh next window I chose ADVANCED SEARCH.  Then plugged in drkellon as the author with hay soak in the message body window.

This message from July 7th came up

Yahoo! Groups

 


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <hinecedark@...> wrote :

I'm sorry, I've searched and searched and can't find it.


Re: Requirements for ACTH Testing?

Nancy C
 

You've gotten great experienced ideas Ferne.  Just wanted to add that it really made life easier for me when my vet taught me how to do the draw.  she is 90 minutes away from me.  I cn take it to the small animal vet  5 mins away and she will spin for me as a favor.  (I've been faithful to her for 14 years now).  I then freeze the serum and take to my equine vet for shipping to Cornell.


If you are not queasy about it, learning how to do it makes life a whole lot easier.


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc



---In EquineCushings@..., <bittersweetfarm@...> wrote :

Hi Ferne,
Any body can draw blood for you.   You,  a neighbor etc.  
 


Re: Requirements for ACTH Testing?

Mandy Woods
 

Hi Ferne,
Any body can draw blood for you.   You,  a neighbor etc.    Do you have a local small animal vet that would spin the blood and separate it?   It would be even sweeter if THEY would send it off for you under their name/account.    That’s how I started with Asher.    My vet didn’t even own a centrifuge but the local cat/dog vet did!
 
Just a thought........
Mandy in VA
 


Re: Is this low grade laminitis?

Mandy Woods
 

Hi Melodie,
Here is the link to Amelia’s CH.  
Please cut and paste it to your signature so it is always available to the volunteers.  That really helps speed up an answer.  Add Md to your signature too!
 
Did you get xrays?  Please post them in your CH.  And pictures of her feet (sole, lateral and heel/toe angle) would help.
 
Regarding Remission:  Why not get a 50# bag of magnesium/oxide 54% at Southern States for under $20.  This will last you years.   There arent enough minerals in Remission.  Amelia is a big girl and will need more minerals when you get your hay analyzed.  Many of us on the east coast buy California Trace because its packed with minerals our east coast hays are deficient in.  Have a look at  www.californiatrace.com      The alfalfa hay you’re feeding may not be helping. Some horses become foot sore on alfalfa.  Stop the carrots temporarily because of the sugar in them.  Lets see what her bloodwork says.    IF you have a SS near you ~ get them to order Ontario Dehy Balance Timothy cubes.  These are completely balanced, safe low sugar/starch cubes.  All you add is Vitamin E,  Isalt,  and freshy ground flax seed.  They make excellent ‘treats’ too!
 
Lavinia is giving you sound advice on your mare’s feet.  Lavinia is one of our hoof people.  I use her too! 
 
Hang in there.  Take it one day at a time.  But remember for best results incorporate all 4 points of our philosophy ~ DDT/E.  
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003
ps:  just one more instruction ~ please delete the previous email you are responding to.  Our files are getting full with so many new members!   Thanks,M.
 


Re: Requirements for ACTH Testing?

ferne fedeli
 

The vet that does my dental work came through.  She said she could come and do the blood draws.  I need to try and find some other appointments for her down my way if I can--better for her and for me!  She now uses IDEXX for her lab work and I told her I wanted her to use Cornell and would help her with the process.  I did that for my other vet and we were both a little unsure about the first time, but it worked just fine...

Thanks so much for the advice/reinforcement of my thoughts, etc.
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010


On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:03 AM, shilohmom@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ferne,


Know how you feel - my trusted vet left the practice suddenly last year.


We do not recommend trailering for tests as that will influence your results. By how much is unknown.


For the ACTH there is a 4 hour window. Glucose really should be separated more quickly. My vet just brings a portable centrifuge so there is no issue. Then all the vet needs to do is keep the samples cold until s/he returns to the office to freeze and ship. A few cold packs and a cooler will do that nicely. If the vet doesn't have a centrifuge you could look into getting one yourself - my vet got one on ebay for $40.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team





Saving soaked hay

hinecedark@...
 

I'm sorry, I've searched and searched and can't find it. Do I remember correctly that Dr. Kellon recently posted that hay could be soaked and hung in a net for use later in the day? Was there a time or temperature limit on that? Just experiment and dig to the middle and sniff?

Thank you,

Melinda

IN    2010


Re: Requirements for ACTH Testing?

Bonnie
 

Hello Ferne,

My horse vet is more than 2 hours away. She only comes here once a year and trailering is not possible for me. I approached a small-animal vet who comes to our remote location monthly. He likes horses and is willing to do a blood draw per the group's instructions.

He does the draw early in the morning before his regular appointments. I drive to the horse vet's clinic with the chilled samples. Her staff then prepare and ship the blood samples for me, all within the 4 hour window. Now I am able to do several checks on Lad's numbers yearly.

Perhaps you can find someone to work with you in a similar way. Good luck with this,

Bonnie Ivey, Ontario 12/08
Lad, IR, PPID, shedding some hair!!! ;-)


Re: Medicating a picky horse

misyrabi
 

Thanks!

 

I will give it a shot.


Re: Medicating a picky horse

 

Buy a couple of these and use them instead of a turkey baster - much easier.

  60 cc Catheter Tip Syringe | KV Supply

 


Medicating a picky horse

misyrabi
 

 My mare has been on pergolide for the last 8 days and on chaste tree berry powder for over 2 weeks now.

 

I am having computer problems this week with uploading updates and pictures and hope to get things resolved over the weekend.  However here is our back history:  Yahoo! Groups

 

Bahj has no problems eating her normal food, but when I put her meds in her grain or in treats she wont eat.  She does not like chaste tree berry, but when I add some to her herd mates dishes, then she will eat it.

 

This last week she started dragging her front feet so this weekend I will take pictures to post.

 

Her behavior is fairly normal for her but I am concerned that she is refusing her treats.

 

I also noticed that she has a soft lump under the jaw.  I think it may be related to a lymph node acting up and have a call into the vet.  She also has a hard lump on the right side of her neck midway between her jaw and her shoulder.  It hasn't changed since I first found it a year ago, but with the added issues may have more significance.

 

My question today - how do you medicate a horse that refuses meds in treats?  Tonight I will try my standby apple sauce in a turkey baster trick.

 

Any ideas?

 

Marion Buntyn and Bahj Rha

Bennett, CO

May 2014

 

 

 


Re: Soy Hulls Availability?

gentpony
 

Hi Lorna,

 

Don’t know if this is helpful at all:

 

Roughly 7 years ago, while at a trade show, I saw soy hull pellets at the Agribrands Purina booth. However, last summer, when we contacted every feed store we could find in the area and beyond, looking for soy  them, no one had even heard of them, including the Purina stores.

The Purina rep who was recommending them at the show was Marc-Andre Blouin, Equine Technical Services Manager, Agribrands Purina Canada.

 You might try contacting him, as he should remember having them, and might know if there was a current source.   Sorry can’t find his current direct contact information….

 

http://equipurina.ca/eq/en/contact-us2/meet-the-team/

 

Eva

SW Ontario, far to the west of GTA

March 2005


Re: Requirements for ACTH Testing?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Ferne,


Know how you feel - my trusted vet left the practice suddenly last year.


We do not recommend trailering for tests as that will influence your results. By how much is unknown.


For the ACTH there is a 4 hour window. Glucose really should be separated more quickly. My vet just brings a portable centrifuge so there is no issue. Then all the vet needs to do is keep the samples cold until s/he returns to the office to freeze and ship. A few cold packs and a cooler will do that nicely. If the vet doesn't have a centrifuge you could look into getting one yourself - my vet got one on ebay for $40.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team




Re: Soy Hulls Availability?

Lorna Cane
 




Hi Sue,

Sorry.I don't have time to look up the analyses,but have done so before.
Equianalytical site would give an idea.

Profiles are very similar,and we are comfortable recommending them.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc



 


Re: Soy Hulls Availability?

Lorna Cane
 




Hi Sue,

Now I'm conversing with myself.

From my earlier message, MF says:

"I usually never recommend bagged ingredients usually because they are used by our mills for some of our products but are not quality controlled from our suppliers. That is why when you receive soya hull pellets there is not a proper tag on them with garenteed percent analysis. The other thing is we do not test this product for quality control to general public". 

In fact,the spokeswoman for Masterfeeds is wrong again.

According to the tag on the bag the Guaranteed Analysis is Crude Protein (Min %) 8.00, Crude Fibre (Max %)  40.00, Moisture (Max %) 13.00

INGREDIENTS: Soybean Hulls

No mention of corn,various seeds and other 'things'.

I'm going to point that out to her,when I tell her I now have over 1 pound of kernels,seeds,etc saved. And that we are still searching for another company.

Aurelio? You reading? I know you would have a clean product,if you carried it.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc




Re: Is this low grade laminitis?

melodie miller <mellow_miller@...>
 

Hi Mandy,

I joined the group and made a folder, Amelia.
But I can't seem to find the case history file/document. Or do I just build that myself?
Vet coming in about an hour... so the process has begun.

Thank You for your help and support,
Melodie


On Thursday, July 10, 2014 2:48 PM, "shilohmom@... [EquineCushings]" wrote:


 
Hi Melodie,

Welcome to the list. Our philosophy is DDT/E, which is shorthand for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.  

DIAGNOSIS: Thoroughbreds are not a breed that is routinely IR unless there is something else driving it. If anything, they tend to need more calories than the average horse just to maintain good condition. Bloodwork is the best way to know for sure. Send a sample drawn from a NON-FASTING horse to Cornell for Insulin, Glucose and Leptin. At 7 yo, PPID (Cushings) is not a likely component here. As she has been away from the track for several years she has had time to "decompress" from the schedule, training and possible drug issues that can accompany that lifestyle so those are also not likely sources of the problems. Testing her for iron overload would be something to consider as iron supplementation is quite prevalent (and unnecessary) at the track. Iron overload could factor into some of Amelia's issues. The sample would need to be sent to Kansas State University as they are the only lab capable of doing the serum iron/ferritin/TIBC tests that are required to properly diagnose this.

DIET: Forage based with the hay tested and supplements mineral balanced to the assay. All hays have excesses and deficiencies and testing shows you exactly what is missing/excessive so you can supply the necessary nutrients in the correct amounts for the healthiest horse at the best value for you. Until you can have your hay tested, we recommend adding in the emergency diet items as they are meant to address the most common deficiencies. In Amelia's case, I don't think you need to soak her hay as she is a young TB who has trouble holding her weight so excess sugars are not likely to be a factor here. You can use rinsed/soaked/rinsed beet pulp as a good way to add safe, extra calories and as a supplement carrier. No red or Himalayan salt blocks (contain iron and aren't correctly mineral balanced).

TRIM: Toes backed and heels low so the  hoof capsule tightly hugs the internal structures. Is she shod or barefoot? Either way, the trim must be correct first or shoes will only make the situation worse. Putting up pictures would be a real help for us. You can add them to the Photos section:


Here is a link to how to take good hoof pictures:


The trim could be the source of many of your girl's hoof issues. Coming from the track almost guarantees that her toes were long, heels underrun and hoof walls may nave been shelly. Flat soles would go along with this scenario. The time of year itself could be the issue rather than the consumption of grass. Depending on where you are located, weather changes and ground surface changes can cause bruising over the winter that then shows up as the weather warms and ground softens. The abscess path is usually a channel rather than a dishing effect. That dished configuration and her soreness could strictly be due to mechanical forces rather than metabolically induced laminitis. Agree that there is more to this than randomness as it has happened two years running at the same time of year.

EXERCISE: Bets thing for any horse as long as they are sound and willing. Never force a sore horse to move. Boots and pads may be in order if she is barefoot. I wouldn't recommend working her any harder than a walk until you know for sure what is causing the soreness.

We ask that you sign your posts with your name, general location and year of joining. This helps us to help you better. Also ask that you fill out a case history for your girl on our sister site ECHIstory8 so we have all the pertinent information in one place for the volunteers to refer to. You'll need to join but approval is quick.


Ask any questions as they come up, we're here to help.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team



 



Re: Hay problem

PapBallou@...
 

Sue -

Can you drop me an email at my usual email addy?

Thanks -

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: Soy Hulls Availability?

Sue
 

Hi Lorna,

Are the beet pulp shreds, no molasses okay to use instead of the soy hulls? 
Do they have more sugars and starches or are they the same?


Sue and Busy
Kingston, ON
October 2010


Re: Hay problem

Sue
 

Hi Linda,

I have asked the BO to hold off giving Busy any of the new hay until I asked what amount of this hay would you recommend I give to Busy right now?

His blood work numbers were just over the limit this spring and indicated that he was  at a severe risk of laminitis so I  feel I need your advise and expertise  before I move forward.

Is it safe to give him this hay or should I wait for the second cut and just feed him ODTBC?

When the seasonal rise kicks in at the end of this month will that add to the risk factor?

Thanks

Sue and Busy
Kingston, ON
October 2010


Requirements for ACTH Testing?

ferne fedeli
 

I just had a terrible shock.  My great vet told me that he is "Hanging up his Stethoscope" and pursuing some other interests!  I just had him all trained too!!!

Anyway, he lives only about a half hour away and testing was no problem.  Now the nearest vet will be 2+ hours away and am having trouble even getting one to return my emails.  I will call tomorrow.  The other vet that I sometimes use says that she is too far away to do the ACTH testing, but I see that you now say that there is a 4-hour window to spin, etc. so seems it should be okay. 

Another possibility might be to trailer my horse 1 hour to the north where I might be able to get one of the vets that visit there once a week to do the testing.  I'm thinking that the trailer stress might cause an inaccurate test--or is that mainly for Insulin testing?  I was just looking at the Table of Contents and couldn't seem to find what I wanted.
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010

98081 - 98100 of 282327