Date   

Bounce Blood test results

Ruth Vale
 

Hi all, responding from the digest
Gentpony wrote:
>Alton is very close to Guelph

Not so much.  I will get clarification on the sample handling.  FWIW, Alton is the municipality but it covers a lot of territory.  Both Vet & I are closer to Orangeville - which puts us on the outer periphery of the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) and the far end of the courier routes going in either direction.  As for how do I know that - had to drive 1.5 hours into the GTA for what was supposed to be a courier drop off and they took it back to the depot because I wasn't home (they knew that).  :(.  

Lavina wrote:
      >This is the second time I'm trying to reply - hope Neo lets it post.

Received.

>The most recent testing shows all the values have gone up from when the tests were done in Feb,
>which is troubling. The Leptin stayed about the same.
>Both sets of numbers calculate that Bounce is technically not IR, which is great, but as there is some question about the
>handling of the samples it would make sense to be cautious. The Leptin value says he is IR at baseline,

This has been my conclusion.  I need patience here.   It took some serious convincing to have the vet (whom I otherwise trust implicitly) do to non-fasting glucose test.  He is not convinced that IR is a valid medical diagnosis so we have a ways to go.  Currently he's agreed with me that treating him as IR is probably the safer way to go.

>which means that his work load and diet are the only things keeping him
>from becoming overtly IR and at risk for more laminitis.

Sorry this isn't clear to me.  Workload is minimal and you said diet is inappropriate (I didn't say I agreed, but that's a different point).  As far as I see it, workload and diet are at minimal levels - we are working upward but for now are relatively insignificant factors IMO.  He is outside every day on 1 acre dry lot shared with other horses.  He gets hacked at walk and a little trot on the quarter track, 3-5 times a week.   He used to be schooling 3rd level dressage, ridden or driven 6d/wk sand competed at least 7yrs in training level combined driving. By way of exercise, we're doing some lateral work at walk and trot but compared to what he used to do - muscle is building again but he's on R&R minimum work load.  He'll get more real hacking when the bugs go back to bed and we can get onto the bush trails again.

>he is a Lippitt Morgan.
Correction.  He has a solid Government and Brunk pedigree lines with only one line going to Lippitt breeding.  His confirmation and character looks nothing like Lippitt. He's just shy of 15.1h, and is built like a plow horse ("pocket Belgian" in Mennonite-speak).   He using a draft size neck collar in harness and a custom saddle wider than the two 17h Clydesdales in the barn.  That has everything to do with the size of his frame.  More so when he was fit and doing combined driving.

>The Brooks Un-Ti is not a suitable feed for him.
>Cannot seem to find an actual ingredient list for it,
 
Brooks Un-ti nutritional analysis:
http://www.brooksfeeds.com/pdf/products_UnTi.pdf

Brooks Ingredients - scroll to the bottom and download the .pdf.
http://www.brooksfeeds.com/products.php?category=performance+and+recreation+rations&id=2

>Better choices would be Ontario Dehy Balanced Timothy Cubes,
>soy hull pellets or r/s/r beet pulp as carriers for his supplements.

I started him out at 2lbs and he did not maintain weight. Worked up from there.  At 3.5lbs/day he is maintaining weight.   He has never been an air fern.  The only time he looked overly tubby was the year I was sidelined with a knee replacement and he did nothing but hang out in the barn and paddock from Dec through the winter. I was back on him without stirrup, 6 wks and 4 days after surgery - carefully. 

OTOH, He has been, shall we say, "way too short of food" twice in his life.    Of the incident where I have direct knowledge, (spring 2007) I hauled him out of the boarding stable under police escort and sued the barn owner (and won) for failure to meet contract terms.  This after the barn owner kept feeding me excuses through the very harsh winter as to why he wasn't being fed in the stall I paid for, was turned out with no hay or water in the paddock or worse-- and who kept leaving the lane un-plowed and closing the barn at erratic hours (If that isn't a red flag I don't know what is).  I moved him as soon as the roads cleared.  He was scary thin.  I still have the pics.  Seriously nutritionally compromised  - it took about a year to put him back into working condition.    Problem last year was not that he was obese (not) but rather he was carrying small fat pockets in the wrong places and otherwise looking ribby and unthrifty (definitely NOT morganish!).  Bigger issues with his disinterest in things and the recurring abscessing.   The "hay belly" look as disappeared and he is looking good. Pictures are scheduled.

>minerals properly balanced to the major portion of his diet - his hay.
Will balance when I get the hay measures.  Haven't been able to corner the barn owner yet for the results.

Somewhere in the wars between "what can I eat" and "what will I eat", This Morgan put his foot down.   No matter how hungry, he will not touch Dehy cubes or beet pulp - or anything soaked (bran being the exception).  In addition, nor will the barn owner feed beet pulp due to the complexities and risks associated with soaking.  This is a boarding situation we all have to find something we/he/I can live with.

>The new hoof wall growing in directly below the coronary band may be coming in
>at a steeper angle than the older growth down below. It would point to here having been some rotation/founder occurring.

Xrays (taken in February 2014) are posted.  Vet & Farrier saw no sign of rotation.  More recent photographs are scheduled.  More xrays are not in the budget.

Ruth Vale
Whippoorwill Amulet (Bounce)
joined September 2013
File:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory7/files/Ruth%20and%20Bounce%20Case%20History%20-%20Ontario%2C%20Canada/
Photos
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory7/photos/albums/841667078



Re: Requirements for ACTH Testing?

Nancy C
 

Amen.  This work is too important.

Thanks for the uplift Ferne.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc



---In EquineCushings@..., <fedelif@...> wrote :

Don't let Neo get the best of you, Lavinia!!!!
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010



help with pony trim..

bigwhitevan2002
 

Hey all,

I am back online after a brief hiatis. Pony's feet have been a bit neglected and am looking for some help with what to do next , would like to post some pics later this week if anyone is game to have a look see.

she is behind on trimming due to family stuff so want to get back on track.


Thanks 

Julie

Oregon, 06


Re: Is this low grade laminitis?

PapBallou@...
 





2 weeks after that abscess broke she abscessed on the left fore.  She was getting better (just a little ouchy) and she was trimmed and went totally sore on both fronts. That was 4 weeks ago.  My trimmer feels Amelia has laminitis and suggested this website.  Friday she was trimmed again and immediately went sore on both fronts again, though much less ouchy as after the trim 4 weeks ago. (the June pics).

Hi Melodie -

Lavinia is having neo problems so will pop in in case she's having a meaningful discussion with her computer...

My trimmer is not aggressive. She shows where the "toe wants to be" and it is quite far back and is getting there slowly. I'm wondering if the toe trim is making Amelia sore?  I know she doesn't touch the heels.

 Unless Amelia is dealing with Lyme, it is highly unlikely she has laminitis.  Highly unlikely...regardless of an abscess track up through the coronet band.  Even that should cause minimal damage that would easily be able to repair itself.  Suspect the abscesses may be due to the bad form you describe finally getting under control, so the feet have been able to start cleaning  up after whatever happened on the track.

It will be good to see the x-rays.  Strongly suspect she has some descent, based on what the hoof capsules look like, her history, and her current symptoms.  So very, very common.  And if that's the case, the x-rays are the best investment you can make.   That will really dictate what should and should not be done as far as the trim.  Main thing is to keep her comfy, with boots/pads or casts, or similar.

Linda
EC  Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004




Re: Is this low grade laminitis

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Melodie,


Thanks for the additional pics. As the vet is coming tomorrow for the xrays, will wait until you have a chance to upload those as well so that we have all the info in hand before making recommendations.


Your hubby sounds an awful lot like mine :) As long as the labels are consistent it's fine.


Good that there is no hollow sound - it's pretty unmistakable when it's there.


While they can quite painful and awful to watch, abscesses are the body's way of expelling nasty stuff that shouldn't be where it is. They are a form of clean-up crew. It can be necrotic tissue, foreign objects, collections of bacteria. Generally, they will follow the path of least resistance so exits thru the coronary band and heel bulbs are common. It is quite possible that there were collections of material sitting within Amelia's feet from before you got her that are now being mobilized because her hoof form is moving in a better direction. Better hoof form will allow her to move more correctly and use her feet in a different, more beneficial way and this movement causes the hidden secretions to be pushed to the outside (a good thing).


What let loose from sole of the LF was probably not toe callus but compressed, exfoliating dead sole that had run forward conveyor-belt style as the toes shot out in front of where they should have been. As the trim has shortened the toes back, this excess material also came loose. Toe callus is dense, thickened sole formed under the leading edge of the coffin bone as protection. It doesn't form until the toe length is correct.


Can you please take a moment more before hitting send to delete most of the post you are replying to. It helps keep messages from becoming reams of repeat info that buries the current questions. Makes the lives of people on digest and of your volunteers infinitely easier. Appreciate your help with this.


You're doing a great job. Don't forget to breathe (exhale too).


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team


>>>>>>>



Re: Requirements for ACTH Testing?

ferne fedeli
 

Don't let Neo get the best of you, Lavinia!!!!
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010


On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 2:26 PM, shilohmom@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ferne,


Sorry about that. Meant to post that to Elva  :(


Been arguing with Neo and lost my train of thought.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team









Re: Is this low grade laminitis?

melodie miller <mellow_miller@...>
 

Thank you so much for your offer to look at more pics of Amelia's hooves. 
The vet is coming tomorrow to take x-rays.  The IR results combined with the x-rays should give a good idea of what is *really* going on.

I posted pics I took today. My husband mislabled the hooves - he labeled the hooves backwards.. LF = "our" LF, Amelia's RF. Sorry, he barely knows which end eats and which end kicks.
Also, the one "confirmation" pic is from last year July.  The current trimmer began in November 2013. I included that picture as a baseline. BTW.. yes, she really is an OTTB, I know she is "built like a warmblood" but she came right off Penn racetrack.

I tapped the hoof and could not distinguish any "hollow" sound from a "solid" sound. Could be I'm not experienced enough but I could not discern a difference.

A bit of background.  Off the track her feet were a mess and she couldn't hold a shoe. She is also unbalanced (though less now) with her right hoof flared and larger and her left hoof smaller and more upright.  I have been working on that under saddle and she has come a long way. 

I pulled her shoes in August 2012 (5 months after purchasing her) to let her feet rest and never went back to shoes. She was doing well with a pasture trim but after doing some research decided she should be trimmed by a barefoot trimmer. Beginning November 2013, a trimmer (with rave reviews) began trimming Amelia, following the Pete Ramey style trimming. She was doing great until May (we even jumped barefoot) when Amelia abscessed on her right fore.  2 weeks after that abscess broke she abscessed on the left fore.  She was getting better (just a little ouchy) and she was trimmed and went totally sore on both fronts. That was 4 weeks ago.  My trimmer feels Amelia has laminitis and suggested this website.  Friday she was trimmed again and immediately went sore on both fronts again, though much less ouchy as after the trim 4 weeks ago. (the June pics).

My trimmer is not aggressive. She shows where the "toe wants to be" and it is quite far back and is getting there slowly. I'm wondering if the toe trim is making Amelia sore?  I know she doesn't touch the heels. Also, the toe callus on Amellia's LF just recently let loose and is gone!

I read that when the abscess breaks through the coronet it can cause the laminea to loosen. So.. is this laminitis due to the abscesses or are the abscesses due to laminitis? I guess that is the million $$ question.

Again,
Thank You for your support and understanding,  it really helps. Especially since Amelia is the only barefoot horse at the stable.

Melodie, Chesapeake City, MD. member since  July 2014
 


On Monday, July 14, 2014 12:55 PM, "shilohmom@... [EquineCushings]" wrote:


 
Hi Melodie,

This isn't your fault and Amelia is lucky to have you as such a caring owner so no more self-flagellation - OK :) . You have very good instincts, which is a huge plus for your girl. It is highly likely you "inherited" these issues as they are common in the TB racing world and also the broodmare scene. We see them here on an almost daily basis. What matters is that the issues have been identified and that you are working to clarify and correct them.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team




---In EquineCushings@..., <mellow_miller@...> wrote :

Oh My,  this is very disturbing. I felt something was wrong this past trim (2 days ago) as this is the second time she is very sore AFTER the trim.  I feel terrible thinking I have hurt my poor horse, I love her so.... I took her off the track at just-turned-5 and have taken the "slow route" building her confidence and trust




Re: Requirements for ACTH Testing?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Ferne,


Sorry about that. Meant to post that to Elva  :(


Been arguing with Neo and lost my train of thought.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team








Re: Requirements for ACTH Testing?

ferne fedeli
 

That was Elva's horse with the Leptin of 2, my Magic was 4.
Ferne Fedeli,
No. California
4/2010


On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:41 AM, shilohmom@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ferne,


A leptin of 2 is a fantastic number - I'd be ecstatic over that. Normal is 1-4. Higher Leptin is not something you want to see.


Has he always been this picky, uninterested in food or is this something new?


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team





Re: Requirements for ACTH Testing?

ferne fedeli
 

His Leptin wasn't borderline low, it was borderline high.  the range is 1-4 and he was 4...
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010


On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 10:00 AM, ejm ejmico@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
 

On 7/14/2014 10:26 AM, Ferne Fedeli fedelif@... [EquineCushings]
wrote:


> Mercy! Good thing I'm skipping Glucose. I'm just doing ACTH,
> Insulin & Leptin... My guy has consistently higher insulin than he
> should, but the Leptin has been within limits the last couple of
> times (barely). Ferne Fedeli No. California 4/2010

Ferne, I think be glad his leptin isn't too low. Beau's is very low and
I guess he thinks he is full and I have serious problems getting him to
eat at all. I can't find his last reading, it's here somewhere but I
think his leptin level was 2.something....can't remember the numbers of
something, maybe like 72. Will try to find the last blood report.

Elva and angel Satin
2004/NM
Beau and Whiskey



Re: Help! Romifidine as sedative?

Nancy C
 

Hi Caryn

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory7/files/Caryn-%20Washington/

It sure looks like a slightly different version of sedivet. One of the side effects is decrease in gastric emptying and possible mild colic. I don't know for sure if you should be panicked.  Did not see insulin/glucose values in your CH.

If this were my very IR gelding, I'd be thinking about the following:

Tighten Magnesium and Calcium ratio.

Make sure he's drinking well and pooping.  Probably add more salt.

If he's not been trimmed in the last week, call farrier/trimmer to have that done.  Pull the shoes if he's in them.  You want to give him no where to go if he does get laminitis.  Put him in boots and pads for the time being.

If his feet are HOT then ice him.

Hand walk him.

Try to keep breathing.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc




---In EquineCushings@..., <caryn.darmer@...> wrote :

My horse broke a canine and had to have it looked at, I researched and researched and told her the sedatives he could not have xylazine and sedivet but so she gave him romifidine.


Help! Romifidine as sedative?

Caryn Darmer
 

My horse broke a canine and had to have it looked at, I researched and researched and told her the sedatives he could not have xylazine and sedivet but so she gave him romifidine. I am hauling him home now... Should I be panicked about laminitis flare up? When I google romifidine, sedivet comes up. He is on 1 mg prascend. Cannot attach my file history since I am on cell phone but will once I get home. Caryn and narco Sept 2013 Washington


Re: Requirements for ACTH Testing?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Ferne,


A leptin of 2 is a fantastic number - I'd be ecstatic over that. Normal is 1-4. Higher Leptin is not something you want to see.


Has he always been this picky, uninterested in food or is this something new?


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team




Re: Bounce - blood test results

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Ruth,


This is the second time I'm trying to reply  - hope Neo lets it post.


Agree completely with Eva on the possible issues with the samples being thawed and the time lapses between sending and receipt of the samples. This calls all the results into question as these are issues that could result in the actual numbers being higher than the tests would indicate.

The most recent testing shows all the values have gone up from when the tests were done in Feb, which is troubling. The Leptin stayed about the same. Both sets of numbers calculate that Bounce is technically not IR, which is great, but as there is some question about the handling of the samples it would make sense to be cautious. The Leptin  value says he is IR at baseline, which means that his work load and diet are the only things keeping him from becoming overtly IR and at risk for more laminitis. This is no surprise as he is a Lippitt Morgan.

The Brooks Un-Ti is not a suitable feed for him. It has an extremely high fat content of 10% (yikes!) that is of the wrong type and protein on the high side at 12%. Cannot seem to find an actual ingredient list for it, however. Better choices would be Ontario Dehy Balanced Timothy Cubes, soy hull pellets or r/s/r beet pulp as carriers for his supplements. He doesn't need 3.5lbs of a hard feed, esp of this type. Also needs at least 2 TBS of iodized salt daily and minerals properly balanced to the major portion of his diet - his hay.

The stretched lamina means that there has been an assault to the tissues that connect the hoof wall to the coffin bone. This connection point is probably wider than it should be. The new hoof wall growing in directly below the coronary band may be coming in at a steeper angle than the older growth down below. It would point to here having been some rotation/founder occurring. The trim needs to address this if it exists. Can't be more specific without seeing current hoof pics.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team



Surpass recall update - Boehringer unresponsive

Joan and Dazzle
 


On June 26th, I posted the information below regarding the recall of Surpass.

My vet had informed me that he had received notification from his pharmaceutical supplier that there was this recall. There was no way to determine who received the Surpass from the lot that had an improper amount of phospholipid content.

I was one of those that had received the Surpass from this lot, as was another person from our barn.

My vet contacted his pharmaceutical supplier who originally notified him. They informed him that he would have to contact Boehringer directly. He called Boehringer, was transferred repeatedly, placed on hold, then after an hour, they hung up on him. He has since tried 3 more times to get in touch with Boehringer, but has been unsuccessful.

I am appalled that Boehringer has put my horse's welfare in danger, has never implemented a tracking system of who has received which lot numbers, and has made it impossible to contact them to correct their error. 

This is not the first time that they have had issues:

This is the same Boehringer that manufactures and markets Prascend (the brand name for their pergolide).

I just wanted to give everyone an update. I never thought that *I* would personally have a horse product that would be recalled. I must say that I am very disappointed in Boehringer and how this is being handled.

Buyer beware.

Joan and Dazzle
Anaheim, CA 2006




******************

Post from June 26th:
I received this announcement today:



"Boehringer Ingelheim Vetmedica, Inc. is initiating a recall of one lot
#130502 of Surpass Cream (124 gram tube). This recall is being initiated as
a result of an out of specification result related to phospholipid content
testing. Phospholipid is an excipient in the product formulation to enhance
the skin permeation of the active ingredient, diclofenac. This recall is
specific to Surpass Cream, lot 130502 *only* and has *no* effect on other
lots of this product.



Product: Surpass Cream (124 gram Tube)

Lot: 130502



This recall is being made with the knowledge of the United States Food and
Drug Administration. We appreciate your assistance in this recall and
apologize for any inconvenience."



If you have purchased Surpass Cream, please check your lot numbers. If you
find that you have cream from the affected lot, please contact the person
from whom you purchased it, or contact Boehringer directly.



Joan and Dazzle

GS
 


Re: Requirements for ACTH Testing?

Elva J Mico
 

On 7/14/2014 10:26 AM, Ferne Fedeli fedelif@... [EquineCushings]
wrote:
Mercy! Good thing I'm skipping Glucose. I'm just doing ACTH,
Insulin & Leptin... My guy has consistently higher insulin than he
should, but the Leptin has been within limits the last couple of
times (barely). Ferne Fedeli No. California 4/2010
Ferne, I think be glad his leptin isn't too low. Beau's is very low and I guess he thinks he is full and I have serious problems getting him to eat at all. I can't find his last reading, it's here somewhere but I think his leptin level was 2.something....can't remember the numbers of something, maybe like 72. Will try to find the last blood report.

Elva and angel Satin
2004/NM
Beau and Whiskey


Re: Is this low grade laminitis?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Melodie,


This isn't your fault and Amelia is lucky to have you as such a caring owner so no more self-flagellation - OK :) . You have very good instincts, which is a huge plus for your girl. It is highly likely you "inherited" these issues as they are common in the TB racing world and also the broodmare scene. We see them here on an almost daily basis. What matters is that the issues have been identified and that you are working to clarify and correct them.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team





---In EquineCushings@..., <mellow_miller@...> wrote :

Oh My,  this is very disturbing. I felt something was wrong this past trim (2 days ago) as this is the second time she is very sore AFTER the trim.  I feel terrible thinking I have hurt my poor horse, I love her so.... I took her off the track at just-turned-5 and have taken the "slow route" building her confidence and trust


Re: Side Effects of Prascend (pill form of pergolide)

PapBallou@...
 

Marion -

I am sorry to hear your mare has had some issues.  

Must say that colic from pergolide is not a common occurrence, if at all.  Not to say your mare didn't have these problems.

I don't understand some vets' thinking about the introduction of a medication known to cause what we call the pergolide veil.  Why blast the horse with a full dose, and then if the horse has some issues, back off?.  I ws told to do this as well.  I did not and had not issues with my then two horses on pergolide.

A more reasonable approach is to start off at a lower dose for a few days, and then increase as the horse tolerates.  That is what is done with many human medications that may have some unwanted side effects.

IMO, I would think the colic is not necessarily due to the pergolide, but to the changes in her gut as she had food, and then long periods without out food...a common set up for colic in some horses.  Too bad that the literature or stats regarding colic/pergolide don't parse out the method of introduction of the medication.

If I were you, I would reintroduce the pergolide, say 1/4 dose for a number of days, and then increase to 1/2 for a number of days, etc, until you get to the prescribed dose.  Would also strongly suggest using an adaptogen called APF, from Auburn Labs.  It has a very strong track record of mitigating, if not eliminating, the initial side effects of pergolide.

Would also suggest you and your vet submit a report to the FDA about the possible colic/Prascend connection.  

Yahoo! Groups

 


Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: Requirements for ACTH Testing?

ferne fedeli
 

Mercy!  Good thing I'm skipping Glucose.  I'm just doing ACTH, Insulin & Leptin...  My guy has consistently higher insulin than he should, but the Leptin has been within limits the last couple of times (barely).
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010


On Sun, Jul 13, 2014 at 12:54 PM, gentpony@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ferne,

 

Not sure if the following will apply.

If also doing glucose, and there will be a 1 hour delay in separating the cells, the vet needs to use a grey top tube, not a red top tube for the glucose sample.  Also keep it chilled with the lavender top tube to slow bacterial growth. The grey top tubes might need to be ordered so make this request to your vet well ahead of time. 

 

To avoid confusion, mark on the submission form that the grey top is for the glucose test.

The additives in the grey top tube can interfere with other tests, so use this one just for glucose. 

For labs that require serum for insulin, use a red top tube for that. 

(Cornell uses the lavender top plasma for both ACTH and insulin).

 

We have a plastic ice cream container with refrigerated water plus ice that goes out to the barn when the vet arrives for the blood draw.  After gentle inversion to mix, all the tubes go into the ice water bath immediately, then the whole container with lid is transported in a pre-cooled (refrigerated) cooler bag, even though the vet’s office is only a few minutes away.

 

The following posts are by Dr Kellon:

 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/64951

“…sample should be kept cool (not frozen) and if they won't be able to process the blood within an hour (serum) or even sooner (plasma), should use a grey topped tube (fluoride) for the glucose test. This tube stops the red cells from eating up the glucose giving you a falsely low result.”

 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/87294

“One big problem though is that glucose levels will tend to degrade for as long as the blood cells are in contact with the serum, and over time because blood is not collected sterilely and some bacteria inevitably get into the sample. If you get a low reading, first to do is probably repeat it. Either borrow a human glucometer if you can, or request a glucose be run using a grey top collection tube (oxalate - stops the red cells from "eating" the glucose).”

       [*my note for newcomers- need BOTH Glucose and Insulin from the SAME blood draw]

 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/62888

“Just a quick note here on glucose testing. Unless you are doing a complete chemistry panel (which needs serum), ask your vet to take the sample for glucose into a grey top tube (oxalate). This will give you more accurate glucose readings.”

 

For Info on tubes:

http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/customer-service/faq/specimen/collection-tubes

 

On rates of glycolysis:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK248/

“Both red cells and leukocytes contain glycolytic enzymes. Therefore glucose will be consumed and the concentration of glucose in a sample of whole blood will decline with time. The rate of loss is generally said to be approximately 5% per hour, but may be as rapid as 40% in 3 hours. Consumption of glucose in whole blood samples can be prevented by adding sodium fluoride to the specimen to inhibit the glycolytic enzymes.

 

Rapid separation of the sample or cooling will also prevent glycolysis and will allow the sample to be used for other determinations. Unhemolyzed samples that have been separated within 30 minutes of drawing are generally considered adequate. Rapid cooling of the sample followed by centrifugation is even more effective in preventing glycolysis. “

Eva

SW Ontario,  Mar 2005



Side Effects of Prascend (pill form of pergolide)

misyrabi
 

 On July 3 I started my mare on Prascend (sp?) at 1mg per day.  By day 6, she was showing signs of inappetence.  I chatted with my vet and we agreed to drop her down to 1 mg every 3rd day until she got used to the dose and then gradually increase it.

 

On Saturday evening (5pm), I gave her another dose after 2 days of no meds and she coliced pretty bad Sunday.  I gave her some bute to help settle her tummy. 

 

On Saturday morning I noticed she had diarhea and I noticed the same from Sunday morning.

 

From my reading and discussions with the emergency vet, that while rate, pergolide/prascend can cause diahrea and colic.

 

My question is this - Once a horse colics on the meds, if you continue to treat, will the horse continue to colic and will it get worse over time?

 

In my mind, I am thinking the risk of laminitis is not as bad as risking a bad bout of colic.

 

Anyone experience this?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Marion Buntyn

Bennett, Colorado

May 2014

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