Date   

Re: Shawnee Relapse

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Melanie,


So sorry to hear Shawnee has had a relapse.


It would be great if you would post current hoof pics. That way we can see if there are trim issues that need to be addressed.


When was the last time you had blood work done? If it hasn't been recently then it would be a good idea. If they are in the budget, xrays would also tell us how well the trim is conforming to the internal structures. I know he is IR and tested neg for PPID last Aug. That he is having issues at this time could point toward a PPID component OR that the pasture is too much. IR is not cured, it is managed and unless a horse is testing solidly controlled and is exercising moderate to hard regularly the pasture is a real "Russian Roulette" situation. I am assuming he has been pulled from the pasture and being kept dry lotted? If the diet is balanced then there is no need to change that.


Good that you've stopped the J-herb for now. Cold hosing or icing his feet several times per day is also helpful. If he is very painful, bute for a day or two is fine to help control the inflammation - just don't let him get running around if he feels too good.


Here is the link to your case history. It helps if you would add that to your signature when you post so we can find the info quickly. Would also be helpful if you would please update it so everything is current.


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory7/files/Melanie%20Gebers/


Hang in there, we'll help you get this sorted out.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team


Re: Prascend vs Pergolide

ferne fedeli
 

I've used Thriving Pets for Pergolide for several years, also with good service, etc.  FWIT I only buy 30 days worth at a time and keep the capsules on the refrigerator door shelf...
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010


On Tue, Jul 22, 2014 at 7:22 AM, Beverly Meyer bmeyer@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
 

I just placed my first order with Thriving Pets.
They were very personable and attentive, and much cheaper than the
liquid pergolide my former vet prescribed.
I'm paying 1/4 for their compounded capsules than I was paying for
compounded liquid ($75/month).
They said the caps retain potency for 90 days but I know Dr. Kellon has
questioned that. I ordered 60 days and will refrigerate. Hope that's ok.
Beverly 5/14

--
Beverly Meyer, MBA
Clinical and Holistic Nutritionist
www.ondietandhealth.com
Facebook: Beverly Meyer on Diet and Health
Radio: Primal Diet - Modern Health



Worming

fionn@...
 

So I dewormed Fionn on the 14th, so just over a week ago. I used Equimax. He had always had clean fecals before but I actually saw a worm and he's been losing weight so I went ahead with the Equimax. Now we have dead worms coming out. Usually 5 or 6 per poop. That seems really bad Should I give him the 5 day Panacur? How long to wait between the Equimax and the Panacur if we are trying to get rid of them ASAP? Or should I test instead? How long should I wait after the Equimax to test?

Michelle Peck Williams & Fionn
Lexington, Kentucky USA
Fionn@...
June 2012

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory5/files/Michelle%20Peck%20Williams/


Re: slightly off topic.. anyone heard of ' Hops " in horses?

bigwhitevan2002
 

Just wanted to post one last time on this offtopicness,

did talk to  my Bo / friend about her horse and the possibility of sub-clinical laminitis, and looking at her insulin,etc, explained about insulin/glucose ratios, maybe testing her selinium levels, and what sub-clinical meant....and was met with a firm " No No No its not her feet her feet are fine, Vet says nothing wrong with her feet, but today its her hips, they are stiff and hot, and all blood  work came back fine"

 I explained that her hips  could be from her keeping her weight off her front feet due to underlying pain.." NO her feet are good, but after her trim on Monday she came of off on her left side the  vet noticed" !!!!,   
 (  incidentally she had a bone scan done on hips  two months ago as well as ultrasound and a huge needle injection of Legend or something similar, nothing was found amiss--- she also had the test where you exersise them and then take some blood or muscle tissue or something)

Is there such thing as Muncheons syndrome by proxy equine? .

..I guess I could address it with the vet next time I see her...but just don't feel like it anymore, will just shrug it off and go about my life.

anyway I am done worrying about it, i will just pet the pretty mare on the head and tell her I am sorry, or try not to go up to the big barn at all....

Thanks again moderators for indulging my need to vent....

Julie
irritated in Oregon.
06







>>>>just a quick answer for you is yes, she had the biopsy and the DNA test all came back negative, the vet 



>>>>The paint mare could have PSSM partially masked by the a)  large amounts of vit E she is receiving and b) small amounts of selenium in the California Trace PLUS being insulin resistant with laminitis. 








 


Re: Prascend vs Pergolide

beverly meyer
 

I just placed my first order with Thriving Pets.
They were very personable and attentive, and much cheaper than the liquid pergolide my former vet prescribed.
I'm paying 1/4 for their compounded capsules than I was paying for compounded liquid ($75/month).
They said the caps retain potency for 90 days but I know Dr. Kellon has questioned that. I ordered 60 days and will refrigerate. Hope that's ok.
Beverly 5/14

--
Beverly Meyer, MBA
Clinical and Holistic Nutritionist
www.ondietandhealth.com
Facebook: Beverly Meyer on Diet and Health
Radio: Primal Diet - Modern Health


Re: Omega 3 and Vit E

Nancy C
 

Oh I couldn't agree more! Thank you so much Joan for the confirmation and instruction for folks like me who don't have the units of measurement nailed down as well as you and Lars.  As I have stated, I was inaccurate in my one-third speculation and the use of  the link  to figure out how to configure mg vs IU.

Let me ask again, perhaps you have a good conversion link for us?

To the original question as previously stated, my point, although not made as clearly as possible, was that the product in question was not a good delivery of the amounts needed. I was as accurate as I could be at the time but thank you for your observation.

Again, the resulting conversation brought us full circle: rule of thumb recommendation for Vit E is 500 IU per 250 lb of body weight. Please see emergency diet.

Thanks again Joan.  As I said to Lars, I always appreciate being kept honest for the benefit of our members.

Look forward to seeing you more often.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 






 


---In EquineCushings@..., <horsies4luv@...> wrote :



I also think that it's very important that when we make recommendations on the list, that we attempt to be as accurate as possible. At that point, the horse owner can make up their own mind as to their course of action, based on accurate information.






Shawnee Relapse

taxwizardsmel@...
 

Hello

I joined the group about a year ago and by November/ December he was running and bucking and feeling great. All winter and into the spring he was out on pasture for 2 to 3 hours a day with a best friends  grazing  muzzle. He seemed to be able to tolerate it. His only lameness was from an abscess that he had in early April of this year. I began to let him graze without the grazing muzzle starting him at 1/2 hour a day and had him up to 3 hours a day. He was still running and bucking and playing. I was lightly riding him. On his last  trim.. he immediately stopped running and playing, but was still walking soundly. A couple of weeks passed and he was dead lame again. Seemed to be only in his right front. At first we thought it might be an abscess, but now I am 100% sure that he is having another bout of laminitis. I have his hay balanced etc... and have his soft rides on. I have not given him bute and have taken him off of the Jherb.

Should I have xrays and bloodwork done again to see where he is at? Should I post new hoof pics to see if my farrier is trimming him properly? Do I make any changes to his balanced diet?

Thank you for you help.

Melanie and Shawnee

August 2013 Oregon



Re: Where to purchase compounded Pergolide

Marilyn Mannino
 

Wedgewood Pharmacy in Swedesboro,NJ is a good place to have your vet order Pergolide Mesylate from. I get mine in capsule form.

  Marilyn & Bud in MI

2013


Re: Prascend vs Pergolide

Sharon Egan <egans20191@...>
 

I'd like to add Thriving Pets at www.thrivingpets.com for compounded Pergolide. I have used them for years with never a problem.
Sharon and Lacey
Virginia
2011

---
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Re: grazing muzzles

kansteen5545@...
 

Hi Leslie -
My mare was like that - I didn't think she would ever get the hang of that muzzle. I enlarged the hole and then just kept putting it on her day after day - it took about a week, but she finally did figure out how to use it!
Karen
Scarborough, ME
May 2014

Leslie wrote:

I agree with the findings but also the muzzle itself makes a difference. How it fits, size of the hole and the horse's ability to deal with it.


Re: Is this low grade laminitis?

sally.stork
 

STOP blaming yourself! I had the same thing with my horse years ago and my vet told me its not a bad trim you did(or from farrier doing it) in these type horses---they have lots of nerve damage intheir feet like diabetic people get intheir feet and whoever trimmed it is going to get a slight sore horse---most have high insulin and need it lowered and the feet protected in boots. Sally, Elkton,MD, since 2009


Re: Omega 3 and Vit E

Joan and Dazzle
 

I think this is an important topic. Lars is right.

1 iu = 1 iu

This already takes into account the differences in biological activity between synthetic vitamin E and the natural vitamin E.

I also think that it's very important that when we make recommendations on the list, that we attempt to be as accurate as possible. At that point, the horse owner can make up their own mind as to their course of action, based on accurate information.

Great catch, Lars.

Joan and Dazzle
Anaheim, CA 2006





Re: chia

Nancy C
 

Hi Marilyn

Check the Spread Sheet link as Lorna has reminded and be amazed!

Flax has both 3 and 6s in the correct proportion.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <midnightexpressb_27@...> wrote :

So should we not worry about feeding our horses the Omega 6s then and just feed the flax seed? I though we needed to get both of the omegas into them?

  Marilyn & Bud in MI

2013


Re: help with pony trim..

PapBallou@...
 

Julie -

Had a chance to take a look.  Actually looks like the trim needs general housekeeping to get it back to where it was...heels, toes and some side wall length and they should look like they did before these recent sad events.  Trimming toes is usually the biggest concern, but don't bring them back until you lower heels.  IOWs, don't focus on the toes, which were the main problems in the past and not lower heels at the same time.

Back to the red/blue line, careful with how much you roll the red area, and then lower to the blue dots/line on the sole view.  I think if you look at some of your past photos, you can see exactly what you need to do.

Yahoo! Groups

 



Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: grazing muzzles

leslie davis <lestop80@...>
 

I agree with the findings but also the muzzle itself makes a difference. How it fits, size of the hole and the horse's ability to deal with it. I had one completely shut down - the mare was SO frustrated with it, that she gave up trying to eat at all until I took it off. Then I have her daughter who just mows right on like 'no big deal'.
Leslie in TX


Re: slightly off topic.. anyone heard of ' Hops " in horses?

bigwhitevan2002
 


Hi Nancy,


just a quick answer for you is yes, she had the biopsy and the DNA test all came back negative, the vet still has her on the high VIT  E dosing, but nothing about selenium, so she is just getting the 2mg in the cal trace which is minimal, as she is feeding the same hay as me and it tested very low in selenium. 


I will go with the idea of trying for getting an insulin test and see if they will test her selenium levels also   ==,hopefully my friend will consider this..I hope we can find out what is wrong with this horse, she is related to my IR/PPID mare not closely but have the same Paint lines...


sorry for the off topicness....moderators thanks for indulging me..


Julie

and pony in Oregon

06





>>>>>>>>>Julie,
??????????At the risk of making the mods unhappy,  I am wondering if the paint mare has PSSM (aka EPSM) from low selenium plus  IR as evidenced from the fat pads, crest, etc? Has she been tested for PSSM with a muscle biopsy and DNA plus selenium and vit E levels? 

The paint mare could have PSSM partially masked by the a)  large amounts of vit E she is receiving and b) small amounts of selenium in the California Trace PLUS being insulin resistant with laminitis. 

Here is some info on PSSM/EPSM (Dr Kellon is quoted in it and a low sugar/starch diet is recommended too):

And here is a link to Dr Valberg's web site.  Muscle biopsy and DNA analysis go to her:

I may be totally off base with this, but having walked this path the story of the paint looked so familiar to me.  I hope this helps in some way. 






 


Effectiveness of grazing muzzles

Susan Zingle
 

From the Journal of Equine Veterinary Science, Volume 34, Issue 7

Abstract 

The impact of horse preference and grass morphology on grazing muzzle effectiveness has not been investigated. The objective of this study was to determine the effectiveness of grazing muzzle use at reducing forage intake when horses grazed grasses with different morphology and preferences. The study was conducted in 2012 and 2013. Four horses were grazed in 2012, and three horses were grazed in 2013. Four species of perennial cool-season grasses were grazed in 2012 including Kentucky bluegrass (Poa pratensis L.), meadow fescue (Schedonorus pratensis Huds.), perennial ryegrass (Lolium perenne L.), and reed canarygrass (Phalaris arundinacea L.). In 2013, only Kentucky bluegrass and reed canarygrass were grazed because of winter kill of other species. Horses were allowed to graze a small pasture seeded with an individual species for 4 hours each day in June and August of 2012 and August and September of 2013. Horses grazed the same grass species for two consecutive days, one day with a muzzle and one day without. Before and after each grazing, a strip was mechanically harvested to determine initial and residual herbage mass. The difference was used to estimate forage intake. The effectiveness of a grazing muzzle was not affected by forage species (P ≥ .05). Use of a grazing muzzle decreased the amount of forage consumed by an average of 30% compared with not using a grazing muzzle (P < .0001). Results will aid horse owners and professionals in estimating forage intake of muzzled horses on pasture.
(I added bold - think you have to subscribe to get the whole article.)

Susan, with Pony, in Chicago, member since 2003  


ACTH Testing ?

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Mods and All,


A friend and fellow Board member is having  Neo issues and asked me to post the following question for her. 


Thank you,


Kathy Brinkerhoff


SE/WI 10/07


Gelding, 15 years old, draft/shire
 
Ulysses was tested for ACTH/Insulin/Glucose/Leptin  December 5, 2013.
According to the IR calculator he is IR...Intermediate
Compensated IR, laminitis risk
 
RISQI 0.31
MIRG 6.47
 
His labs were:
 
ACTH  29.2 pg/ml
Insulin 10.69 ulU/ml (can't quite read the letters. Numbers clear)
Glucose 82
Leptin 5.04 ng/ml
 
My question is...If his ACTH was 29.2 in December should I be doing/watching/whatever something as the seasonal rise is beginning or after it has started or at the height of the seasonal rise?  I do not have the resources to test every time I need to.  And if I really need to test probably could only afford one time for a check. Of course if the check came back positive I would scramble around to do a second check after he is on meds.
 
Donna Powell
Beaufort, SC

ECIR May 2011



Re: chia

Lorna Cane
 

>So should we not worry about feeding our horses the Omega 6s then and just feed the flax seed? 



Hi Marilyn,

Did you have a chance to check out Nancy's message link?

"There is a comparison chart in the files that shows the how Flax, Chia, Rice Bran, BOSS, hemp, and split peas compare in various areas. "

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/%203%20%20CORE%20DIET%2C%20ANALYSIS%2C%20NUTRITIONAL%20NEEDS/Omega%203%20%26%20Omega%206%20Info/

 


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc







 


Re: chia

Marilyn Mannino
 

So should we not worry about feeding our horses the Omega 6s then and just feed the flax seed? I though we needed to get both of the omegas into them?

  Marilyn & Bud in MI

2013

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