Date   

Re: Sad news

Shari Starr
 

Michele, I am so very sorry to hear of the passing of Bea into spirit. My thoughts & prayers are with you. I'll light a candle for Bea tonight from my NW Washington porch in Bea's honor. It's been a little over a year of my love, Snickers passing to spirit. I'll pass on this quote to you that was helpful for me.The Hoofbeats In Heaven yahoo support group has helped me greatly & there is a lot of helpful links there also. 

 

"....The answer to the mystery of existence is the love you shared, sometimes so imperfectly. And when the loss wakes you to the deeper beauty of it, the sanctity of it, you can't get off your knees for a long time; you're driven to your knees not by the weight of the loss, but by gratitude for what preceded the loss. ..The ache is always there, but one day not the emptiness, because to nurture the emptiness , to take solace in it, is to disrespect the gift of life." - Dean Koontz

 

Shari Fly Free, Snickers mom

ECIR June, 2013

Western Washington State

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Possible early PPID symptoms

Nancy C
 

Hi Paula

Your numbers from April show an elevated insulin that I would be concerned about.  If it was very cold that day it could also have raised his insulin. His goopy eyes are a symptom of IR and of PPID.  Your ACTH is high normal. He my or may not be PPID.

Both my horses - one metabolic, one not - took forever to shed out this year. 

If you can, I would get combined ACTH, leptin, insulin ($60.00 Cornell cost last time I checked) and serum glucose ($8.00 last time I checked) Make sure you do not test him fasted.  It will skew results.

Other ideas as for loosing weight:  If he was not gettingenough hay, well, he'd loose weight.  He may like this new hay better because of the taste.  Is it higher in sugar or starch than the last batch?  Fiber content - ADF and NDF - could also affect his wanting to eat the old hay, if it was later cut and more stemmy.

Assume he is dewormed regularly and his teeth are up to snuff.

When you next do your minerals I would make sure your CA:Mag and trace mineral ratios are nice and tight.

It's good you are working him. If you have no foot symptoms, no rings, nice tight trim and growth, I would enjoy the rest of the summer and test late August or so.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





Re: Sad news

Nancy C
 

I am so sorry to her this Michele.  It's a hard time.  Thank you for thinking of others.

Thinking of you.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc




 

 


Re: Possible early PPID symptoms

Chanda
 

I understand the denial, I've been there.   It's easy not to believe it, and for some reason that second horse diagnosed is harder to deal with or believe than the first; I don't know why.  

Chanda

MT 9/04


Re: Possible early PPID symptoms

paulah@...
 




---In EquineCushings@..., <claudiagoodman22@...> wrote :

Hi Chandra and Claudia,
Thanks for sharing your perspective.  I am at the point of disbelief, denial and dismay, and for some reason this is hitting me harder than my other horse Cory's diagnosis.  We'll run the full panel in September and see where we stand at that point.  
Thanks again,
--Paula



In hindsight, I should have tested her again in Aug/Sep 2013 to see where she was going. I regret not knowing and treating her 6 months earlier, but grateful she was able to rebound. I think it's important to not count on seeing multiple symptoms - I used it as a reason to not act sooner. 

Best of luck,

Claudia & Silhouette 2014 California

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Claudia%20%26%20Silhouette/




Tallulah 23 yo Welsh X PPID diagnosed 07-15-14

agtedgerly@...
 

Hello All!  We are very new to this.  My daughter's 23 yo Welsh X pony has recently been diagnosed with Cushings Disease (PPID) and we are trying to get a handle on this.  She is on costal bermuda pasture when not working, and has been changed onto Nutrena Safechoice Special Care post diagnosis; prior, she was on Nutrena Safechoice Maintenance so we have decreased her NSC 10%.  We have done a CBC, Chemistry, ACTH, and TRH Stimulation test 07-15-14.  She had a parasite count of 750 and was dewormed with Ivermectin on 06-20-14.  She does have polyuria, but her weight loss has subsided and she is at a Body Score of about 7.  She has had a profound positive change in mentation and activity level subsequent to her deworming, then again post feed change.  I would like to leave her on pasture, should I just cut out her pellets?  She has no history of laminitis, or sore feet, she is barefoot and our barefoot trimmer comes every 4 weeks to trim.  Our veterinarian recommends beginning Pracend at a dosage of 1mg.  Other than polyuria, all of the other indicators have subsided since the fecal and the feed change, I would like to hold off Pracend if we don't need it yet, or put her on during spring and fall.  I posted her Case History in her file and would appreciate any and all recommendations.  Thank you so much for your time,  Alison


Re: ODTC labels

Lorna Cane
 



Hi Megan,

Maybe the feed store can tell you the batch that your bag came from? They're probably working through a skid.Maybe?


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc



Re: Sad news

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

I'm so sorry for your loss, Michele. Thank-you for thinking of others at this difficult time.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team

---In EquineCushings@..., <minpinmom1130@...> wrote :

I had to put Bea down this week.  I have a new order of pergolide granules that I just ordered for her from Wedgewood, not opened...just be arriving today.  Pergolide Mesylate 3 mg/5cc scoop Granules 100 Scoop Apple  If anyone is interested, please email me at minpinmom1130@...




 


Re: Sad news

Carla
 

I am so very sorry for your loss of Bea.
Carla and Cupcake
WI/ Dec.12

<<


Re: ODTC labels

Megan Vogel
 

Thanks Lorna, that's what I get for thinking at work. Can't even get the right cubes written down. The husband accidentally ripped the label off the current bag. I was hoping I was wrong even though that is the most logical.

Megan
August 2003
Frederick, MD/Lovettsville, VA


Sad news

minpinmom1130@...
 

I had to put Bea down this week.  I have a new order of pergolide granules that I just ordered for her from Wedgewood, not opened...just be arriving today.  Pergolide Mesylate 3 mg/5cc scoop Granules 100 Scoop Apple  If anyone is interested, please email me at minpinmom1130@...


Michele and Bea

Colorado



https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Bea%20and%20Michele/





 


Re: ODTC labels

Lorna Cane
 




HI Megan,

I *think* you mean the ODTBC?
Not the ODTC - straight Timothy cubes? The company makes both.

The lot number should be there on the tag.I know you know that .
It has always been at the top of tags on bags I have purchased. Nothing there at all?


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc. Shop For Charity, Donations, Fundraising, Online - iGive

 



Re: Cory and Deb need help

janieclougher@...
 

Deb, I second Linda's observation about the ACTH.  I would continue to increase Cory's pergolide, in .5 mg increments.  If Cory were mine, I would aim for 8 mg final dose; but that may or may not be enough.  If you get to 7 mg and he is suddenly full of beans again, that would be not so bad; but then the ACTH will continue to rise through December (possibly January for him), so you may need to go higher.

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC09
ECIR  mod/support

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/


ODTC labels

Megan Vogel
 

Ok someone please tell me if I am having one of those moments. Where is the lot number on the tag of the Ontario cubes?

Pepsi normally loves her cubes. The bag I purchased a week ago, she won't eat. She sticks her head in, takes one and spits it out. Bought a new bag this weekend, same story. Pony really loves her cubes but something isn't right. The other non-Cushings horses are eating Pepsi's cubes as if there isn't anything wrong with them.

Megan
August 2003
Frederick, MD/Lovettsville, VA


Re: Potential problem(s) with suddenly stopping Pergolide?

Nancy C
 

Hi Betty

Sorry you had this NEO issue.  I *try* to remember to compose in other software then coy and paste.  Don't always remember.  Very frustrating.

Stopping suddenly is not a good idea.  Would try to get another vet on board or call the pharmacy for other ideas.

Quick review here:

Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc



---In EquineCushings@..., <lucke@...> wrote :

The scrip for two horses I have on Pergolide is about to run out this week and I am having difficulty getting in contact with the prescribing vet to get the repeats renewed. June bloodwork has both of them just under the upper end of the ref range at Cornell for ACTH. 



Re: Fresh Spreadsheet

Nancy C
 

Hi Carol

Some two years ago, Dr Kellon pulled the spread sheets. Unfortunately,  folks who were not trained in understanding their use were using them incorrectly. You can read her message here Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.



Re: New Member from Colorado

Mandy Woods
 

Hi Suzanne,
What a mess you came home to!
 
Hopefully we can help you.   I would have a 14 yo tested for ACTH,  Insulin/Glucose/Leptin on  NON fasting.   At his age he could have Cushings starting.  We are going into the seasonal rise now.   If he is over the lab normal you should start him on pergolide at least  through December.
Here’s the link you’re looking for.     http://tinyurl.com/2kqu5v     Scroll down to Insulin/Glucose.   We have added the Leptin test which is more sensitive.   Cornell bundles these tests,  ACTH, I/G and Leptin.    Your vet can also order shipping labels from Cornell to help with the cost of overnight air.  Please use Cornell.  They are the most consistant lab for this work.
 
   I would feed low s/s hay or soaked hay the night before and the morning of the test.  No bucket feed.   Just before the vet was to arrive I”d rake up the hay.     Horses are not made to fast.  You will get a false low value on an empty stomach.   You want to see how his body handles low s/s.   Tweaking his diet will become more important.   Like no grazing!   No grains! etc.
 
What you could do right now to help us is join the ECH8 group and fill out the questionnaire.  This paints a broader picture for the volunteers to help you faster.   It takes a minute to join but a few more to figure out the details in the questionnaire! 
Here’s the link:
 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/info
 
 
Our philosophy is DDT/E.  That’s DIAGNOSIS,  DIET,  TRIM AND EXERCISE.
 
You are working on your bloodwork.  Send us the results when you get them.   Get a hard copy of the results from your vet.
Cushings is treated  with pergolide.  It is supported by the DIET.   Insulin Resistance is managed by DIET.   You should start the Temporary Emergency DIET today.  Soak his hay for one hour in cold water.  Pour off the water where he cant get to it.  Feed him 4 small meals a day to keep food going through his system.  Weigh the hay dry. Feed him 1.5% to 2% his body weight a day in dry hay.  Starvation diets backfire on the horse.   Don’t try it.  Read the ER DIET in the Start Here file and at   www.ecirhorse.org     NO pasture.  NO grains.  NO apples, carrots, treats, red salt blocks, commercial feeds or supplements.  The ER minerals can be purchased at Walmart.  So can a hanging scale in the sports department!   Put him in a drylot or muzzle him taping the holes shut if needed.
 
TRIM is a balanced foot with heels lowered and toes backed.  There is place in ECH8 to post your xrays and photos of his feet.  I’llsend a link to taking good foot photos.  Boots and pads.  Soft Rides are the best rehab boot.  Bed him deeply in sawdust so he can ball it up to suit himself. 
 
EXERCISE.  Never force a laminitic horse to move.  DO NOT RIDE him.   IF he’s willing to walk at liberty,  taking him for a short walk with no tight turns or pivoting will help his mind and body.  No lunging.    Plan on one year of this care.   You will need to grow out a new hoof or two.
 
http://www.freil.com/~mlf/IR/ir.html
 
 
 
www.equi-analytical.com
 
 
http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html 
 
 
You have a great understanding of what happened and what comes next.   Keep us posted.   Ask questions.   
 
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003
 
 


Fresh Spreadsheet

Carol Hamilton
 

Hi, I've been a member here for a few years, and after getting wonderful help from Kat, I have been balancing my hay for several years.  I don't even lurk here anymore because my IR horses are thriving, and the older gelding is still hanging in there on 4 mg of Pergolide.  Today I wondered (as I was balancing this year's hay) if there was a revised spreadsheet in the last several years.  I remembered that it has been tweaked over the years, but I couldn't find it in the files.  Can anyone post the link to it, please?

Carol and Casey, and Jesse too
Yucaipa, CA
2008



New Member from Colorado

Suzanne Mansolilli
 

Hi--I have a 14-hand 12-yr-old Peruvian Paso that I aquired last fall before leaving the country for the winter with the intention of coming back in the spring to do lots of trail riding.  He was a little on the heavy side, so I bought grass hay at 8.9% ESC + starch and had Dr Kellon do the mineral balancing. I hired a farrier to trim monthly for low heel/short toe. However, he got no excercise all winter long and upon my return in May, I found that the farrier let the heels go very long and took down the sole at the toe! He seemed to be very slightly tenderfooted on some, but not all days, so I booted him for daily excercise to get him in shape.  


Last week he was actually sore, so I had the vet do X-rays which showed rotation.  The vet suggests limiting his hay to 13 lbs/day divided into 2 meals (he now eats free choice out of a small mesh hay net) and testing for IR & Cushings, but she wants him to fast before the blood draw.  


From perusing this site I know fasting before the blood draw is not recommended. I listened to her reasons, which made sense to me, but I couldn't remember the reasons this group sites against fasting.  I need help!  How do I follow the group's protocol and not alienate my veterinarian?


Any guidance would be appreciated!


Suzanne Mansolilli & Monty

Western Colorado


 


Potential problem(s) with suddenly stopping Pergolide?

Betty Ann
 

I had an entire message finished...Chrome had an issue and closed, loosing my message just before it was sent.....not typing all that again.... :(

The scrip for two horses I have on Pergolide is about to run out this week and I am having difficulty getting in contact with the prescribing vet to get the repeats renewed. June bloodwork has both of them just under the upper end of the ref range at Cornell for ACTH. 

Just wondering what, if any concerns there may be if Pergolide is stopped suddenly. (They are on 1mg and .75mg)

Betty Ann
Mar 08
ON CAN

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