Date   

Re: Seasonal Rise

 

>>If he were here I would test through Cornell in the next few weeks, prior to the time he gets lethargic lethargic. Work with your vet on pergolide increase, but in general you want to make sure your ACTH and symptoms are controlled.
I don't believe there was any Mag listed in your CH.  Testing the balancing the hay makes a huge difference for these horses.< <

I do get my hay tested and balanced by Valeree. In the past, I have given Mag, but with this hay, it was not recommended.

So, do you think, I need to retest even if I just did it a few weeks ago? I do go through Cornell. I do trailer my horse to the clinic for the blood draw. Would this cause a problem?

When I have mentioned to my vet that I would like to consider increasing his dosage during the seasonal rise this year, he didn't think I needed to. However, he didn't have any answers to why Tucker becomes lethargic during the winter months and said he would work with me.
 
Cynthia Boriskin from CA
Tucker 10/10 







        





Re: Seasonal Rise

Nancy C
 

Hi Cynthia

Seasonal Rise

 



If he were here I would test through Cornell in the next few weeks, prior to the time he gets lethargic lethargic. Work with your vet on pergolide increase, but in general you want to make sure your ACTH and symptoms are controlled.

Make sure you double check for other areas that might give lethargy, adequate calories and protein, salt.   I don't believe there was any Mag listed in your CH.  Testing the balancing the hay makes a huge difference for these horses. I'm sure you know an adaptogen (APF) may help too. For others, see info in the FILES on Adaptogens

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc


---In EquineCushings@..., <cboriskin@...> wrote :

I have never increased the pergolide during the seasonal rise, but have always noticed my horse becoming extremely lethargic to the point where he is barely walking on the trails.



        


Re: Seasonal Rise

 

I have never increased the pergolide during the seasonal rise, but have always noticed my horse becoming extremely lethargic to the point where he is barely walking on the trails. I had planned on increasing his dosage this year. I had him tested last July and it showed that the .75mg dosage was working and his numbers were in the normal range. I had increased his dosage by .25mg in April after the ACTH test showed his numbers were out of the range. 

The past few weeks, I have noticed he is drinking and urinating a lot more. Of course we have been having high 90's - 100+ degree weather and I am not sure if this is the reason for the extra drinking and urination.

Would this group suggest that I do another ACTH test? When? And, how much, if needed should I increase the pergolide? Is it best that I try to catch it early or wait until he is lethargic?
 
Cynthia Boriskin
from CA
Tucker 10/10

Case History: EC Case History 3

 







        


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

It sounds like you would be better off moving them. Just get pergolide dose stabilized first.

It's not that long of a haul and stress is directly proportional to distance traveled.  If you get them on the APF, that will further help manage any stress.  You can get it here:

http://forageplus.co.uk/?s=apf&post_type=product

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001




Re: To Dr. Kellon -

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I got it. Will get back to  you today.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: Seasonal Rise

Nancy C
 

Hi Michelle

I can see it in my boy's muscle tone and other symptoms. Have already begun to see these issues.  Will be testing blood this week.

When it ends can vary from horse to horse.  Some are acclimated in early winter.  Others, need more help through the season into spring.

An over view of seasonal rise is here

http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/cushing-s-disease/seasonal-rise

 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc



---In EquineCushings@..., <fionn@...> wrote :

How do you know when the seasonal rise has started? and when it ends?



Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Hannah T
 

Ok, thanks Mandy.
Will start the quarter pill today and try handfeeding him his speedibeet. He was still acting 'crazy' this morning,like he is scared of his own shadow. Hopefully this gradual dosing will help. He gets his pill at midday every day.
I also wanted to ask your advice on something else. The stables where my ponies are kept used to be lovely and quiet.But a few new people have arrived and it has become a very noisy place, which Ziggy doesn't like.  We don't have a field any more (as they dont go out on grass now so someone else was given my field). The yard does not have a drylot, and there is not potential to make one due to the design of the yard. Certain areas also flood in the winter, so any hopes of making a drylot are dashed! So I am concerned  about their quality of life. THey are both sound now, and being walked in hand every day to start slowly on a fitness program. But I would like them to be able to go out in a drylot with their haynets and be 'horses'.
The stables are 2 mins from my house which is great in case of any probs.
I have found a new place about 20min drive from my house. It has everything I need, but I am worried it is too far in case of probs. But more importantly, I am worried whether travelling the horses (Ziggy in particular) will make them downhill due to the stress of it, and the stress of getting used to a new home. I think their quality of life will be better at the new place in the long term though. What would you advise in this situation? Should I wait for Ziggy to get comfortable on his pergolide? Should I even risk moving them?

Hannah, Uk, 1/8/14
Ziggy and Jaffa

Yahoo! Groups

 


Seasonal Rise

fionn@...
 

How do you know when the seasonal rise has started? and when it ends?

Michelle Peck Williams & Fionn
Lexington, Kentucky USA
Joined June 2012
fionn@...

Case history:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory5/files/Michelle%20Peck%20Williams/

Photo album: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/photos/album/867903845/pic/list

Foot Photo album: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHoof/photos/album/1767999070/pic/list







Paula's Cory, new hoof photos, new trimmer?

paulah@...
 

I uploaded a new set of photos for Cory, 6 YO Morgan with IR to get an evaluation of how his feet are doing.  Can someone help with that?  If I understand the mark ups from Lavinia and Linda done in February and May of this year, we are not where we need to be.


FYI: Results from Hoof Wear application done five weeks ago:


He was comfortable right after the trim (usually sore for at least a week and I need to use boots to keep him comfortable).

Trimmer scheduled next appointment for 5 weeks after application.

There was no traction applied to the Hoof Wear, so he slipped big on the berm of the driveway a couple of times,

The toe wore off as trimmer said it would.  

He started to feel not right under saddle after about four weeks, but was walking fine.

After 5 weeks, trimmer said it had helped stabilize his heel and the wall height could be trimmed more. Trimmer has left heel wall higher than this group recommended.

I did not have the Hoof Wear reapplied.


This trimmer will not be available to us going forward and we need to find another one.  Any advice, recommendations would be much appreciated.  You can email me at paulah@... if you have comments about specific trimmers.


Thanks much for all the help, support and information.

Sincerely,

Paula  (Cory IR and Onyx) in Bucks County, PA, USA

EC 2014     NCRplus2011  

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Paula_Cory/

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/275503778

Yahoo! Groups      




Re: Starting Pergolide without blood test

Ellen
 

> "Hi ,

    Just wanted to share my experience with two different vets and a farrier. My regular vet and my farrier recommended that I begin riding a month after  my mare suffered laminitsis, which resulted in a 6 degree rotation in one front foot and a 7 degree rotation in the other front foot. The fancy specialist ( in other words, obscenely expensive) told me to start riding after 10 days and to severely limit her hay. I listened to my regular vet and farrier and ignored the fancy vet. My mare has a stretched white line in both front feet, whether or not it was a result from the laminitsis or putting  her back to work too soon is something that I will never know.

Again. I wish I had known about this group and would have allowed my mare a full 6 month recovery  rather than be guided by  the vet or farrier. I just added my two cents to show how confusing it is to decide  the best course of action for our beloved horses.

Ellen

Long Island

March  2013

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To Dr. Kellon -

martha williams
 

Dear Dr. Kellon,
      This is to let you know that I sent you a longer email, a short
email, and rads and pictures a couple of hours ago.
  Many thanks.
     Williams/Dubrow NY. '08


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Mandy Woods
 

Hannah,
I did not explain myself very well giving the pergolide pill in quarters.   The bottom line is give Ziggy one quarter pill for 4 days ~ then one half a pill for 4 days ~ 3/4 pill for 4 days until you reach one whole pill a day.  That should help with the side effects.
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Hannah T
 

Sorry about that.

Hannah,Uk, 1/8/14

Yahoo! Groups

 

For some reason, my case history link never works?


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Mandy Woods
 

Hi Hannah,
You are experiencing the pergolide veil with Ziggy starting pergolide.   You need to taper on.  You can also give a product called APF  by  www.auburnlabs.com   to help him through the adjustment period.    To taper on,  break the pill into halves.   Put one  half in a syringe (3cc) of water,  let it melt and shake it up.   Give him one half the liquid.  Store the other half in the frig. This will give him .50 mg on day 2.....do this again until the 1 mg pill is in him.    Then when you have finished this pill  give half a pill at a time until you work up to one full mg a day.   You should avoid the veil by doing this. I would decrease the pill to one quarter tomorrow.  This would be better than stopping abruptly.    My horse responded by being very spacey.  He acted like he didn’t know where he was, he went off his feed as well.  His veil disappeared on its own .   Please try to give the pill at the same time every day.   I don’t know if his spooking is directly related to this.   I think you could play it safe and keep him in for a few days to get the medication in him followed by some food!
 
Its really very important ponies eat.  Try to get some speedibeet in him or chopped up hay – whatever combination he will eat.  Have  you read at the Laminitis Trust for some feeds that are safe for IR?  
 
And you can have something stronger than a cup of tea to get you through all this!    If I was closer I’d meet you at the PUB.  Take the photos when you can.
 
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003


Re: taking hoof pictures

kansteen5545@...
 

Thanks Maggie -
I ran off a copy of the photo instructions so I can take them to the barn for photo day.
Karen
Scarbprough,ME
May 2014


---- "spiral1957@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:



Hi Karen,

Phone pictures are fine, as long as you have a decent camera in your phone.  Have you reviewed the site on how to take good hoof photos?  Here's a link:   http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html

After you get the pictures into your computer, go to ECH8 and click on PHOTOS.  You are not going to put them in your folder with your CH, but in the PHOTOS section of ECH8.  Click on "new album", name it and upload your photos into that.  Let us know when you have them up!
 
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Lorna Cane
 


>I think I am having one of those totally overwhelmed moments with this. Trying to take deep breaths!

Please help your volunteers help you by signing your posts.
And do keep breathing.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.igive.com/welcome/warmwelcome.cfm?c=65676

 



Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Hannah T
 

I think I am having one of those totally overwhelmed moments with this. Trying to take deep breaths!


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Hannah T
 

Hi again group,hi Mandy,
I haven't managed to take the hoof photos yet. It's proving to be quite difficult. I should have someone to help hold the feet up tomorrow so I will try again.
Ziggy was started on pergolide 3 days ago.  1mg pill per day. Previous to starting them, he was very lethargic and depressed. Within 3 days he have become almost completely different and I am now very concerned.
He has always been an excellent eater and loves his food, especially his hard feed. In the last 3 days he has been eating gradually less and less. This eve he didn't want his hard feed at all, and is only picking at his hay slightly. Also,his character has changed. He doesn't seem very lethargic and has gone very spooky and skittish. I am not sure if pergolide causes neurological signs, but this eve he was acting very strange. Every time he put his head outside the stable door, he was spooking and darting back into the stable as if something just hit him or he couldn't see very well. He did it several times.Has anyone else had worrying signs like this? I cannot get my vet on the phone this eve but plan to call her tomorrow morning. Do you think I should stop giving him his pergolide for a few days and gradually re-introduce it at a lower dose?


Re: taking hoof pictures

Maggie
 

Hi Karen,

Phone pictures are fine, as long as you have a decent camera in your phone.  Have you reviewed the site on how to take good hoof photos?  Here's a link:   http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html

After you get the pictures into your computer, go to ECH8 and click on PHOTOS.  You are not going to put them in your folder with your CH, but in the PHOTOS section of ECH8.  Click on "new album", name it and upload your photos into that.  Let us know when you have them up!

 
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


Re: Laminitis related issue?

Maggie
 

Hi Kelly,
 
Sounds like you are getting a good plan in place for Buddy.  Yes, I would send the blood early in the week.  That way it won't be sitting around over the weekend waiting to get done. 
 
As far as exercise goes after a bout of laminitis, we recommend only hand walking in long straight lines with no tight turns and letting the horse move about freely as he will, with boots and pads if needed. Better safe than sorry, right?  I do agree that xrays would be a wise investment prior to any more rigorous exercise.  Best to know just what's going on and adjust the trim/treatment accordingly.  My personal choice as far as getting the xrays done would be to wait until the regular vet is back in town.  Xrays are not necessarily diagnostic for navicular and the actual inflammation of laminitis does not show up on xray, but the rotation/sinking/gas pockets will.  So no harm in waiting and the quality and availability (to you) of the digital is better/easier.  Might try to schedule him early in the week when he returns and have everything (labs+xrays) done at one time.
When you get your hay, and are ready to test it, you might call your local coop or county extension agent and see if they have a hay probe you can borrow. Save you from buying one, for now.
 
You'll like the vinegar/salt/soap weed solution.  It works within hours!  Works best on a sunny day.  Don't know if you saw it in that discussion, but someone else mentioned an action hoe as well.  Here's a link to one.  It works really well, but is a little (ok, a LOT) more labor intensive than the spray, and the grassy stuff with deep roots is hard to get with it.  http://www.lowes.com/pd_94329-302-1866378_0__?productId=3356584&Ntt=action+hoe&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Daction%2Bhoe&facetInfo
 
I looked at the pics that are posted of Buddy's feet.  I am not a pro trimmer, just do my own 2 boys, so will leave the advice there to the experts. 
 
The links you added to your signature did not work.  Here's a link to your CH:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Kelly%20%26%20Buddy/ 
Copy and paste those into your signature.  And don't forget to add your date of joining and location each time as well.  It's easiest to make your signature somewhere, like in a word document, and then you can just copy and paste it each time you post.  I promise it all gets easier!
 
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


 

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