Date   

Paula's Cory, new hoof photos, new trimmer?

paulah@...
 

I uploaded a new set of photos for Cory, 6 YO Morgan with IR to get an evaluation of how his feet are doing.  Can someone help with that?  If I understand the mark ups from Lavinia and Linda done in February and May of this year, we are not where we need to be.


FYI: Results from Hoof Wear application done five weeks ago:


He was comfortable right after the trim (usually sore for at least a week and I need to use boots to keep him comfortable).

Trimmer scheduled next appointment for 5 weeks after application.

There was no traction applied to the Hoof Wear, so he slipped big on the berm of the driveway a couple of times,

The toe wore off as trimmer said it would.  

He started to feel not right under saddle after about four weeks, but was walking fine.

After 5 weeks, trimmer said it had helped stabilize his heel and the wall height could be trimmed more. Trimmer has left heel wall higher than this group recommended.

I did not have the Hoof Wear reapplied.


This trimmer will not be available to us going forward and we need to find another one.  Any advice, recommendations would be much appreciated.  You can email me at paulah@... if you have comments about specific trimmers.


Thanks much for all the help, support and information.

Sincerely,

Paula  (Cory IR and Onyx) in Bucks County, PA, USA

EC 2014     NCRplus2011  

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Paula_Cory/

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/275503778

Yahoo! Groups      




Re: Starting Pergolide without blood test

Ellen
 

> "Hi ,

    Just wanted to share my experience with two different vets and a farrier. My regular vet and my farrier recommended that I begin riding a month after  my mare suffered laminitsis, which resulted in a 6 degree rotation in one front foot and a 7 degree rotation in the other front foot. The fancy specialist ( in other words, obscenely expensive) told me to start riding after 10 days and to severely limit her hay. I listened to my regular vet and farrier and ignored the fancy vet. My mare has a stretched white line in both front feet, whether or not it was a result from the laminitsis or putting  her back to work too soon is something that I will never know.

Again. I wish I had known about this group and would have allowed my mare a full 6 month recovery  rather than be guided by  the vet or farrier. I just added my two cents to show how confusing it is to decide  the best course of action for our beloved horses.

Ellen

Long Island

March  2013

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To Dr. Kellon -

martha williams
 

Dear Dr. Kellon,
      This is to let you know that I sent you a longer email, a short
email, and rads and pictures a couple of hours ago.
  Many thanks.
     Williams/Dubrow NY. '08


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Mandy Woods
 

Hannah,
I did not explain myself very well giving the pergolide pill in quarters.   The bottom line is give Ziggy one quarter pill for 4 days ~ then one half a pill for 4 days ~ 3/4 pill for 4 days until you reach one whole pill a day.  That should help with the side effects.
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Hannah T
 

Sorry about that.

Hannah,Uk, 1/8/14

Yahoo! Groups

 

For some reason, my case history link never works?


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Mandy Woods
 

Hi Hannah,
You are experiencing the pergolide veil with Ziggy starting pergolide.   You need to taper on.  You can also give a product called APF  by  www.auburnlabs.com   to help him through the adjustment period.    To taper on,  break the pill into halves.   Put one  half in a syringe (3cc) of water,  let it melt and shake it up.   Give him one half the liquid.  Store the other half in the frig. This will give him .50 mg on day 2.....do this again until the 1 mg pill is in him.    Then when you have finished this pill  give half a pill at a time until you work up to one full mg a day.   You should avoid the veil by doing this. I would decrease the pill to one quarter tomorrow.  This would be better than stopping abruptly.    My horse responded by being very spacey.  He acted like he didn’t know where he was, he went off his feed as well.  His veil disappeared on its own .   Please try to give the pill at the same time every day.   I don’t know if his spooking is directly related to this.   I think you could play it safe and keep him in for a few days to get the medication in him followed by some food!
 
Its really very important ponies eat.  Try to get some speedibeet in him or chopped up hay – whatever combination he will eat.  Have  you read at the Laminitis Trust for some feeds that are safe for IR?  
 
And you can have something stronger than a cup of tea to get you through all this!    If I was closer I’d meet you at the PUB.  Take the photos when you can.
 
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003


Re: taking hoof pictures

kansteen5545@...
 

Thanks Maggie -
I ran off a copy of the photo instructions so I can take them to the barn for photo day.
Karen
Scarbprough,ME
May 2014


---- "spiral1957@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:



Hi Karen,

Phone pictures are fine, as long as you have a decent camera in your phone.  Have you reviewed the site on how to take good hoof photos?  Here's a link:   http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html

After you get the pictures into your computer, go to ECH8 and click on PHOTOS.  You are not going to put them in your folder with your CH, but in the PHOTOS section of ECH8.  Click on "new album", name it and upload your photos into that.  Let us know when you have them up!
 
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Lorna Cane
 


>I think I am having one of those totally overwhelmed moments with this. Trying to take deep breaths!

Please help your volunteers help you by signing your posts.
And do keep breathing.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.igive.com/welcome/warmwelcome.cfm?c=65676

 



Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Hannah T
 

I think I am having one of those totally overwhelmed moments with this. Trying to take deep breaths!


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Hannah T
 

Hi again group,hi Mandy,
I haven't managed to take the hoof photos yet. It's proving to be quite difficult. I should have someone to help hold the feet up tomorrow so I will try again.
Ziggy was started on pergolide 3 days ago.  1mg pill per day. Previous to starting them, he was very lethargic and depressed. Within 3 days he have become almost completely different and I am now very concerned.
He has always been an excellent eater and loves his food, especially his hard feed. In the last 3 days he has been eating gradually less and less. This eve he didn't want his hard feed at all, and is only picking at his hay slightly. Also,his character has changed. He doesn't seem very lethargic and has gone very spooky and skittish. I am not sure if pergolide causes neurological signs, but this eve he was acting very strange. Every time he put his head outside the stable door, he was spooking and darting back into the stable as if something just hit him or he couldn't see very well. He did it several times.Has anyone else had worrying signs like this? I cannot get my vet on the phone this eve but plan to call her tomorrow morning. Do you think I should stop giving him his pergolide for a few days and gradually re-introduce it at a lower dose?


Re: taking hoof pictures

Maggie
 

Hi Karen,

Phone pictures are fine, as long as you have a decent camera in your phone.  Have you reviewed the site on how to take good hoof photos?  Here's a link:   http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html

After you get the pictures into your computer, go to ECH8 and click on PHOTOS.  You are not going to put them in your folder with your CH, but in the PHOTOS section of ECH8.  Click on "new album", name it and upload your photos into that.  Let us know when you have them up!

 
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


Re: Laminitis related issue?

Maggie
 

Hi Kelly,
 
Sounds like you are getting a good plan in place for Buddy.  Yes, I would send the blood early in the week.  That way it won't be sitting around over the weekend waiting to get done. 
 
As far as exercise goes after a bout of laminitis, we recommend only hand walking in long straight lines with no tight turns and letting the horse move about freely as he will, with boots and pads if needed. Better safe than sorry, right?  I do agree that xrays would be a wise investment prior to any more rigorous exercise.  Best to know just what's going on and adjust the trim/treatment accordingly.  My personal choice as far as getting the xrays done would be to wait until the regular vet is back in town.  Xrays are not necessarily diagnostic for navicular and the actual inflammation of laminitis does not show up on xray, but the rotation/sinking/gas pockets will.  So no harm in waiting and the quality and availability (to you) of the digital is better/easier.  Might try to schedule him early in the week when he returns and have everything (labs+xrays) done at one time.
When you get your hay, and are ready to test it, you might call your local coop or county extension agent and see if they have a hay probe you can borrow. Save you from buying one, for now.
 
You'll like the vinegar/salt/soap weed solution.  It works within hours!  Works best on a sunny day.  Don't know if you saw it in that discussion, but someone else mentioned an action hoe as well.  Here's a link to one.  It works really well, but is a little (ok, a LOT) more labor intensive than the spray, and the grassy stuff with deep roots is hard to get with it.  http://www.lowes.com/pd_94329-302-1866378_0__?productId=3356584&Ntt=action+hoe&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Daction%2Bhoe&facetInfo
 
I looked at the pics that are posted of Buddy's feet.  I am not a pro trimmer, just do my own 2 boys, so will leave the advice there to the experts. 
 
The links you added to your signature did not work.  Here's a link to your CH:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Kelly%20%26%20Buddy/ 
Copy and paste those into your signature.  And don't forget to add your date of joining and location each time as well.  It's easiest to make your signature somewhere, like in a word document, and then you can just copy and paste it each time you post.  I promise it all gets easier!
 
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


 


Re: taking hoof pictures

kansteen5545@...
 

Hello -
I finally have a person to help take hoof pictures. Are phone pictures O.K. or do they need to be taken by a digital camera.
Also - after I have them how do I get them to my folder.
Thanks
Karen
Scarborough,ME
May 2014


WAS: Starting Pergolide without blood test NOW:Exercise

Nancy C
 

For folks following along, wanting to know more background info on bring a horse back to work and feeding a working recovered laminitic horse, please see two docs on ecirhorse.org

http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-exercise

http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/feeding-recovered-laminitics

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc


Re: Starting Pergolide without blood test

Lorna Cane
 



Thanks,as usual,for your clear,well thought-out message,Jaini.

I especially like this part,for people like me,who are better with a concrete marker to help make decisions. It gives us something to look for,as opposed to remembering how long it has been:

>No riding until at least 1/2 hoof growth cycle, and preferably 2/3 hoof growth cycle; minimum 6 months.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.igive.com/welcome/warmwelcome.cfm?c=65676

 



Re: Starting Pergolide without blood test

janieclougher@...
 

"Riding was at a walk, straight line down the trail, in boots and pads and the trail was soft dirt, for about an hour.  The week before that I took him to an arena with new composite footing and he worked at liberty well with no boots.  I firmly believe in exercise and movement to increase blood flow and therefore increase growth.  I would not tell someone else to ride a previously laminitic horse, but I feel I myself am qualified to determine how much exercise and how to apply that exercise and at what point.  I have been rehabbing foundered and laminitic horses for some years now.  I will be cautious with his work, as I usually am, and monitor his progress carefully.  I do appreciate the comments and will err on the side of caution with him as I do not want a relapse. "

"Recently when he started showing such improvement, I took him to the arena with the great footing and for the first half hour let him move at liberty, which he did very well.  I did notice slight hesitations in tight turns to the right, the more affected front hoof.  For the second half hour, from the ground, I asked for some movement putting him thru his liberty exercises, which he did quite willingly and what almost seemed to be happily.  At this point I was mostly asking for direction, not speed.  He walked or trotted as he choose.  I merely pointed in the direction or around which obstacle I wanted him to go.  The last half hour I got on with a bareback (double padded) pad and let him move at liberty.  At no time while I was on him did I request speed or direction. "


I am sorry, Debora, but I must most vehemently disagree with these activities in a recently laminitic horse.  By recently, I mean a laminitic attack within the last 6 months, that actually ended after the triggers were removed - ie, the triggers were discovered (PPID, IR, Lyme disease and/or other) and removed, so that healing could begin. So, no riding within 6 months after cessation of a laminitis episode.  Brief and gentle ground work is certainly indicated, preferably in boots if necessary, but no turns, or at least very gently turns, and never more than 20 minutes a day, at the walk, at the beginning, increasing gradually over a period of many weeks.  Yes, movement is very important; but it is equally important to allow the horse to dictate the movement in the dirt paddock or dirt paddock track system. Actually asking the horse to do any liberty work or  ground work is totally different. Totally. Often the best plan is to allow free movement outside in boots.

I am qualified to make these assertions because I am a veterinarian (although not the idiot kind - very few of us are) who has spent a lot of time researching the pathogenesis and mechanics of laminitis.

Coles notes version:  Once active laminitis has ceased,triggers removed,  and healing has begun, free movement, often with boots, is best.

Gentle in-hand walking can commence 4 to 6 weeks after the episode. No turns.  Boots or very soft ground a must. Gradually increase duration.

No riding until at least 1/2 hoof growth cycle, and preferably 2/3 hoof growth cycle; minimum 6 months.



Jaini (BSc, BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy and now Eddy
BC09
ECIR  mod/support

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/

 





Re: Competing FEI USEF Drug Rule Pergolide

alikern@...
 

I have found that the USEF drug hotline  phone is amazingly available and helpful for "A" h/j shows,
 don't know about FEI but I would call  and present your Prasend problem, and see what they suggest....   Alison


Re: Starting Pergolide without blood test

PapBallou@...
 


I am sorry if I did not elaborate on the relationship.  My job is more than to trim the hooves.  I am responsible for this horses daily care, exercise, training and in the future, sale or rehoming.  The owner is not here.  I have a care/custody/control agreement.  The owner has made all the decisions.  

I am ending this here  The ultimate question/point is that pergolide, from an unknown source, IOWs not a bonafide RX for this particular animal obtained from a licensed vet, was given, and publicly flaunted by referring to the vet with demeaning names.  I don't have the authority to treat any of my horses for PPID except for Pap and the mini within the guidelines my vet and I have agreed on. 

Anything else is practicing medicine.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004



Re: Starting Pergolide without blood test

 

Thank you Dr. Kellon.  Good point all, and well taken. 

Debora


Re: Need help to post history

Maggie
 

>>Hello, I am new to the group and trying to post my history as well.....
 
Hi Kathy,
 
Welcome to the group!  You should be able to type in those spaces what Dancer was doing and what he is doing currently.  I know the space looks small that you can type in, but it expands as you go!  You can always use the free form space at the bottom of the form to type in Dancer's history and any other details you want to add.  Let us know when you get it filled out and don't forget to add a link in your signature.  Makes it so much easier for the volunteers to find it!  Looking forward to the details about Dancer so we can give you some more specific information and answer any other questions you have!  In the meantime, you may find our website helpful.  http://ecirhorse.org/
 
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


 

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