Date   

Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Hannah T
 

Hi Lavinia,There is no drylot at their stables and the stable manager is not willing to budge on it and give us an area to make one. I have found a new yard to move to that has all of our needs,but I don't want to move until I get the Prascend dosage built up and under control. He is not a good traveller and I am worried standing in the horsebox and the stress will make him go downill again.Hannah, 1/8/14,UkZiggy and Jaffa

Yahoo! Groups

 


Katie

Judy Slayton
 

Hi,
A long day and I am not sure I was clear in my previous posts. This is my routine testing, not done because of symptoms. The few mild ones she has disappear as soon as she is exercised. I thought maybe my insulin was up due to not enough exercise.It has been very hot here and dealing with issues with elderly parents, so 20 minutes 4 times a week of exercise is what I am managing. I expected better numbers all around just not sure I should attribute this to above or a warning to up dose before it is to late that I am seeing a false sense of wellness and lami is lurking. She is a thanksgiving crasher.
Thanks,
Judy&katie

Sent from my iPad


Stormy - need advice on perg. dose, please

Teri
 

Stormy (26yo mini -x mare. PPID/severe IR) continues to stump and confound me.  Needing advice.

Had ACTH drawn on Friday 8/8 because her appetite kept getting worse (her best/most reliable indicator) in spite of being on 20 mg Pergolide (compounded caps).   I was afraid to increase her dose any more w/o labs to confirm.  I was right...ACTH was 52.9!    Appetite got even worse over the weekend, so I am sure it has gone even higher since then!  (She does best when ACTH is under 20.)

I gave her an extra 1mg. yesterday and added another 1mg today.  ( For new people...I think because her dose is so high, I can increase her dose this quickly w/o her experiencing the veil. )  So she got 22mgs today! YIKES!   Her appetite had already improved this evening....not great, but better.      

After a real struggle, her ACTH was 17.3 on 14mgs perg last Nov.  Instead of going down in the spring, ACTH was 30.3 in May....still on 14mgs.   I have been chasing it ever since.   Like I said, once we got to 20, I got really nervous, did more labs and here I am...in very uncharted waters ...wanting to make sure I am doing the right thing.    Can I safely continue to go by her loss or increase in appetite to judge her increase in dose through the rise?  I would be shocked if she stabilizes this early in the season.  Is there an upper limit on the perg dose?  

I just now quickly updated her CH to include her labs and perg doses from this year.  There have been a few other minor changes (like adding Phyto-quench) but I really don't think they would affect her ACTH. 

She did show signs of anhydrosis/overheating earlier this summer.   She has been fine since I body clipped her, but she still does not seem to tolerate being out in the sun for very long.   I body clipped her for the 2nd time this year about a week ago.  Her feet continue to be tender in spite of great help/advice form Linda.  Trim is the best it has been in ages.  She is currently wearing Eponas.  

Thanks in advance for your help!

Teri and Stormy

IN 2012

groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory5/files/Teri%20Riley/Teri%20Riley%20-%20Indiana


Re: shawnee hoof pics

taxwizardsmel@...
 

Will send hoof pics of my mare. She is 21 years old. I have her on the same diet as Shawnee. I know you suspected her as IR when you saw her. Thank you again. I will send pics tomorrow

Melanie and Shawnee Aug 2013 Oregon


Re: Hedy crossed the rainbow bridge

Donna Coughlin
 

Fly free Hedy! I know you're joining many beloved horses over that rainbow. Five years ago, I lost a gray thoroughbred who also had melanomas and several seizures the last year of his life. I took him to the clinic when his appetite failed, actually several days before he died, and there were internal tumors everywhere. So I brought him home and he died while playing in the snow with my younger horse. I still feel blessed to have had him in my life for so long, and I know you'll feel the same about Hedy.
Donna Coughlin, Duke, Obi and Robin
CT 2009


Hedy crossed the rainbow bridge

vickimmartin
 

I haven't posted very often in the past couple of years because the information from this group so improved Hedy's quality of life that once we followed all the recommendations there was no need.  Unfortunately Monday we had to euthanize her.  She had developed what appeared to be seizures which seemed to be related to the angle of her head. In a period of about a week I witnessed two, and a third was likely when I went down to the barn in the morning and she had split her face open requiring 20+ stitches.   She had more medical issues than just her Cushings.  Typical of a grey pony she had melanomas that had grown out of control in the past year or so, and she also suffered from TMJ.  I understand her seizures could be attributed to any of these issues.   

We loved her so much, this has left a huge hole in our hearts.  

I have a partial box of Prascend that I would be happy to sell at a discount to anyone that can use them.  I also have a bag of J-Herb, iodized salt (unopened), flax seed, and an almost new bottle of vitamin E, all of which I am happy to give to anyone that could use it.

If anyone can use any of these just drop me an email at vicki6236@....

Vicki and Hedy

 VA 2012 


Re: New Katie test results & Neo problems

Judy Slayton
 



Sent from my iPad


On Aug 13, 2014, at 6:23 PM, "threecatfarm@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> Hi, tried that. My computer on,y shows one pic from 14. I don't see her feb14 X-rays. I will reload next week after trimmers.

.Agree something is driving her glucose and insulin. It may help to know leptin.Yes, and I believe it will be the highest yet. She has actually done pretty well with that.
Agree her IR symptoms are starting again. Does she cycle regularly? She is cycling regularly for the first time in years.
Have you thought about iron overload? Yes, I think she probably is. I have never tested for it as I am having a hard enough time with the vets and since there is nothing to do other than what I am doing I have not pushed it.
I think you have tested and balanced your hay?Yes
Not clear with your supplements. What is ESC and starch? 5.5, the best we've ever found. This years is 6.3. Hay is weighed out and fed in buckets and bags. Except for our time together she never goes more than 2 hours without food, maybe 4 hours during the night if she pigs out.
Not more if she is currently getting enough calories to meet her needs, just different placing to slow her down?She is getting more calories than she needs. She does not handle adaptogens well so I do not use them or jherb. It has been a battle to get her to this place and except for tiny things that scare me, I have not seen her feel this well in years. Thanks for the help. Much appreciated.
Best,
Judy

  Nancy C in NHECIR Moderator 2003Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.www.ECIRhorse.orgCheck out the FACTS on Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroupSupport the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR GroupEquine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 


Re: New Katie test results & Neo problems

Judy Slayton
 



Sent from my iPad


On Aug 13, 2014, at 6:36 PM, "shilohmom@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
Thanks Lavina, I will try that with the pics. I am not even going to try my history until the leptin comes back. I don't use word so I have a tricky but workable way to update it with pages.  Will do next week after trimmers come so I can upload the most current pics. I think her feet are looking pretty good.

The Feb 2014 photos are all there - Neo just arranges in them in an order that makes sense only to Neo. If you click on the "actions" 


If the blood pull was just done you are looking at a seasonal rise influence starting. She is still in a generally pretty good place but obviously it looks like that is not a good enough place for her. Uncontrolled ACTH will drive insulin up, not the other way around.

Blood testing was done on Monday and except for the few things mentioned, she is feeling and moving better than she has in years.

I also have one who drools so understand the med dosing dilemma. Assuming you can't get a script for the 1.75mg capsules so that you aren't trying to juggle all those tiny bits and trying to make sure she actually consumes them? Are you dissolving the entire dose in a syringe or ??

I use prasend so 1 1/2 pills go in the carrot-that goes down, then we dissolve .50 and split it. Fridge the rest for next day.
Thanks. I'm thinking I need to go up. Harder on the pocketbook but easier on the routine.
Best, Judy


Re: New Katie test results & Neo problems

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Judy,

The Feb 2014 photos are all there - Neo just arranges in them in an order that makes sense only to Neo. If you click on the "actions" tab on the top right of the screen it will bring up a drop-down menu of ways to arrange the pictures. Choose "date" and it will rearrange them in a more sensible fashion.

If you want to update her history file, download the one that is currently in there to your computer, make changes, save them, then delete the one that is in the Yahoo case history file before uploading the new version.

If the blood pull was just done you are looking at a seasonal rise influence starting. She is still in a generally pretty good place but obviously it looks like that is not a good enough place for her. Uncontrolled ACTH will drive insulin up, not the other way around.

Your feed protocol sounds good - there is no fasting (more than 6 hours without food). You don't need to skip minerals on test day, just don't want to give hard feed within four hours before test as that can spike insulin more than hay.

I also have one who drools so understand the med dosing dilemma. Assuming you can't get a script for the 1.75mg capsules so that you aren't trying to juggle all those tiny bits and trying to make sure she actually consumes them? Are you dissolving the entire dose in a syringe or ??

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05,RI

EC Support Team 


Re: New Katie test results & Neo problems

Nancy C
 

Hi Judy...I can see her photos up to February 2014. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory4/photos/albums/2107429846Try playing with the choices under ACTIONS in the upper right hand corner.Agree something is driving her glucose and insulin. It may help to know leptin. Agree her IR symptoms are starting again. Does she cycle regularly? Have you thought about iron overload?  If you were in the  northeast, I’d be worried about lyme disease.I think you have tested and balanced your hay? Not clear with your supplements. What is ESC and starch? Weighing the hay?IR does not drive ACTH but lack of control of ACTH can drive IR. She may need to be more tightly controlled, ie with ACTH lower in the so-called normal range. I *think * your feeding is okay on test day but it might help to make sure she has a longer trickle feed.  Maybe another bag of hay?  Not more if she is currently getting enough calories to meet her needs, just different placing to slow her down?Getting the pergolide in is important.  If she has problems with Pergolide increases, look to ADAPTOGENS (see info in FILES) ie, APF.Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

  Nancy C in NHECIR Moderator 2003Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.www.ECIRhorse.orgCheck out the FACTS on Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroupSupport the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR GroupEquine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 

---In EquineCushings@..., <doghorsemom@...> wrote :
Hi Everyone,
I just had Katie re tested and received results today. I went to review my pics and all of 2014 is gone even though it shows account updated in Feb.
 


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Hannah,
You aren't doing anything wrong with posting your links. They are fine when you click on them even though Yahoo puts a note on them saying there is an error. It is a Yahoo issue so nothing we or you can do to change it :(
Your xrays are not in your case history folder - they are in the Photos section of ECHistory8, please see the links I included before. If he is sound then you don't need boots for the walks - only if he seems in any way sore or uncomfortable. I agree with you that he needs to get out - we do not recommend locking horses/ponies into stalls. Is there an area where he can be turned out that doesn't have grass and is small enough that he won't get to running around too much? That would be ideal in addition to the hand walking. He can also go out with companions if everyone stays relatively calm.
Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


New Katie test results & Neo problems

Judy Slayton
 

Hi Everyone,
I just had Katie re tested and received results today. I went to review my pics and all of 2014 is gone even though it shows account updated in Feb. Does this mean Neo has eaten them? They were there before. Her history file was there but said the group was out of space? Does that mean I have to move all her stuff again? Help?

All came back except leptin (pending) Blood pull went well, the best ever and she is feeling well. I have been riding some, taking her on walks, trimming monthly, eating well and yet her acth climbed from 16.8 to 24.7. Insulin 142.33 up, glucose 104. Has been running 95-97. Her diet is good, even found a flax she will eat, finally! just beginning to switch supplements and hay for the upcoming feed season. Her feet are looking pretty good. If they were there you could see them, grrrr. Thought we were good and just needed the heat to calm down so we can get more exercise but yet in the last couple weeks, she has been very hungry and after the last few years of being a hard keeper is becoming an easy one again, some fill on bottom of jaw line, very slight stocking up on rr leg that goes away with movement, some drooling (not dental related) and wants her boots more again-we had gotten several days without. Those are the start of her IR symptoms. I read the files and ecirhorse on the seasonal rise but am still confused and unsure. I think I need to increase my dose. We are at 1.75 prascend and we always worry how much of the .25 actually goes down the hatch because of the wet mouth. She is like pavlovs dogs and actually waits with mouth open for her syringe and carrot piece of pink pills.

 So IR driving acth or acth out of control driving IR? She does not do well with dose increases so do not want to do that if I can avoid it but certainly do not want to go backwards again. Advise? please.

Could someone confirm that I am testing correctly? They are fed all day, last meal and bag at 10pm. I think she runs out of food about 2-3am. We feed again 6:30am. Give prascend and no minerals on test day. 8am I put out more food which lasts until vet comes at 10am. Is this the correct way?

Thanks very much for the help. I will update her file when leptin comes in and will hope the pics suddenly reappear.
Best,
Judy&Katie


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Hannah T
 

Hello,Yes, they were both re-xrayed afterwards.But the only ones that have come through from the vets so far are Ziggy's 2 front feet after the trim.These are in the link to the photos also.The other post-trim xrays from the rest of the feet I had to see in person at the vets because something went wrong when they were trying to send them to me. For some reason, every time I try to post the links to my folder in a message, it keeps saying 'error'. Sorry, I am not quite sure what I am doing wrong with copying and pasting it. For these inhand straight lined walks,do you think I should get some cushioned 'equi boots' to pop on him as well? He is getting quite wound up in his stable because he has been in since January, so I am hoping some short walking will calm him down and make him feel he has a purpose.Hannah,1/8/14,UkZiggy and Jaffa

Yahoo! Groups

 


Re: shawnee hoof pics

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Melanie,

It really isn't you - it's the new Yahoo format that is driving everyone crazy - so take heart.

I'll get some mark-ups done for you for Shawnee and let you know when I get them posted in his album.

As I recall, there were some milder hoof form issues with your mare. Has she had blood work done for IR/PPID? That she is sore now is suspicious for a PPID component and I know we had touched on her being a likely candidate for IR. Is she following the same diet plan as Shawnee? You can post some pics for her as well and I can take a look.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team

---In EquineCushings@..., <taxwizardsmel@...> wrote :

Thank you Lavinia. Thank you for the links. I guess I am "yahoo Group Challenged" and have a hard time navigating. I am getting a bit better.

Yes if you can do markups. He comes on August 19th.

Most likely the grass was causing the ripples. I know now he is a dry lot horse. I thought he could tolerate some pasture. He was running out every morning bucking and playing and feeling great. I was using his neck as a measure to tell me if he was getting too much grass. When he got too cresty I would keep him in. That obviously did not work.

My Morgan mare is sore now as well, so he now has a buddy to keep him company.

Melanie and Shawnee

Aug 2013 Oregon


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Hannah,

Here are the links to Jaffa and Ziggy's albums:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/286128498

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1291696720

I believe you had said that the farrier had made some changes based on the xrays. Were you able to get some pics of their feet after the changes were done? Agree completely with Mandy that starting Ziggy back to work would be hazardous at this time as there were some serious form issues on the xrays. Even if those were correctly addressed, he would still need time to grow out tight, new connections before it would be safe to consider a formal exercise program that consisted of anything more than straight lines and gentle turns.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team

Yahoo! Groups

 


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Hannah T
 

Hi Mandy,The photos of the hooves themselves I haven't managed to take yet. It's proving to be difficult on my own, but I will keep trying.  The links to the xrays are here:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/286128498

Yahoo! Groups

These xrays were taken before the correct trim and they had long toes. However, there are 2 of Ziggy's xrays in there that were taken after the trim.They are the two front feet,which show his feet as they are right now. I will start walking him inhand on straight lines on soft ground and try to sort these hoof photos out. I have worked so hard at getting them both to this point, there is no way on earth I am going to rush this if you think it is too soon.

Hannah,1/8/14,Uk

Ziggy and Jaffa

Yahoo! Groups

 


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Mandy Woods
 

Hannah,
That’s great news about Ziggy and Jaffa going sound.   However I must caution you that ridding Ziggy so soon after founder with 8% rotation is playing with fire.   We recommend at least one whole new hoof growth.    That is 9-12 months from the start.    If Ziggy was here,  I would be hand walking him in long straight lines.   Tight turns, pivots and circles are hard on their walls.    Can you borrow a friends horse to pony Ziggy off of?   Then he will not carry any extra weight on his front feet which are still mending.    I could not find your photos.  Will you send me a link to them?   Lets make sure you are ready to move to the next step.   Exercise is a very important part of the DDT/E’s but we need it controlled with a good alignment trim.
 
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003


Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Hannah T
 

Great news here today Mandy!Both Ziggy (IR and Cushings) and Jaffa (IR) have been signed off by the vet and farrier as being fully sound and can start a proper exercise program! Just need to get Ziggy's Prascend dosage increased gradually now to control his ACTH. Am getting them both re-blood tested in a month to check all levels of everything again and make sure this is working.Any advice in an exercise program? I was going to start them both off with walking for 2 weeks in soft ground and some hill walking. Then start short periods of trot for another 2 weeks, then short periods of canter after 2 weeks again, and generally build up the schooling.Hannah, 1/8/14,UkZiggy and Jaffa

Yahoo! Groups

 


Re: To buy or not to buy a Cushing's horse

Mandy Woods
 

Hey ~
 
If you have a read at www.ecirhorse.org   you’ll have many questions answered.    The bottom line is you need to know going in to this journey that you will have a supportive vet and a competent farrier.   You will need to invest in Pergolide.  Some vets only sell Prascend which is pergolide in a fancy wrapper.  Most of use compounded pergolide  for a fraction of the cost.   Make sure your vet is a member of Cornell where we send out labs and that he/she will write you a script.  One mg is about $27 a month including s/h.   Since PPID is a progressive condition,  plan on your pergolide dose increasing eventually.   
 
Many Cushings horses become IR.   IR is managed by DIET.   We recommend good forage with the minerals balanced to it.  IR horses cannot be turned out on pasture.    The Cushing horse will benefit from this very Diet.  He may or may not be able to handle grass.    IR  needs no medication. 
 
Their quality of life is great if you can control their ACTH level by testing and giving the right dose of pergolide.  Some horses continue to show  and participate in  pleasure rides.   The negative outcome is laminitis/founder  if these  conditions are not controlled. 
 
You mention that this horse has a bulge for a crest and thick coat/sweats.    You would be doing this horse a favor if you tested him for ACTH,  Insulin/Glucose and Leptin  today.   Again, these are  progressive conditions  so *IF* he’s positive PPID/IR now,  you will have saved him from a lot of pain! 
 
Lots of members here have taken in horses/ponies that are PPID/IR.   Tell us the details as you get closer to adoption.   We will be able to advise you more closely then.   Thank you for thinking about offering this horse a safe retirement home.   You’re an angel!
 
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003


Re: shawnee hoof pics

taxwizardsmel@...
 

Thank you Lavinia. Thank you for the links. I guess I am "yahoo Group Challenged" and have a hard time navigating. I am getting a bit better.

Yes if you can do markups. He comes on August 19th.

Most likely the grass was causing the ripples. I know now he is a dry lot horse. I thought he could tolerate some pasture. He was running out every morning bucking and playing and feeling great. I was using his neck as a measure to tell me if he was getting too much grass. When he got too cresty I would keep him in. That obviously did not work.

My Morgan mare is sore now as well, so he now has a buddy to keep him company.

Melanie and Shawnee

Aug 2013 Oregon

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