Date   

Re: pictures

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Karen,

I added your pics to Bay Lady's album. Here's the link:


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1235401778


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team










Re: MIRG calculations

Nancy C
 

Hi KarenThe full IR Proxies paper is in the files.
Blood Testing for IR  Cushings Disease tinyurl.com/2kqu5v

Look for

IR PROXIES ORIGINAL

The PONY FIELD STUDY is also there.

 This is the equation listed

Proxies adapted for basal plasma
glucose (mg/dL) and insulin (mU/L) concentrations

HOMA25 = (glucose − insulin)/22.5
QUICKI15 =(log [glucose X insulin])–1
Glucose-to-insulin ratio = glucose/insulin
HOMA-BC%25 = (20 X insulin)/(glucose − 63)
Insulin-to-glucose ratio = insulin/glucose
RISQI = 1/√insulin = insulin–0.5
MIRG = (800 − 0.30 X [insulin − 50]2)/(glucose − 30)
HOMA = Homeostasis model assessment. QUICKI = Quantitative
insulin sensitivity check index. HOMA-BC% = Percent HOMA–betacell
function. RISQI = Reciprocal of the square root of insulin. MIRG
= Modified insulin-to-glucose ratio

Are you able to share the lab values, reference range, and which lab you are using?

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 




---In EquineCushings@..., <kfrogner@...> wrote :



We have a horse with normal G:I and RISQI, but symptoms all say IR.


Thanks, 

Karen CVT

Oregon, 2013


 


Re: Pergolide to give away

aet001@...
 

Diane, I'm so sorry for your loss.  How kind of you to "pay it forward" with your Pergolide.  Fly free, Rocky, green grass and blue skies forever.  Amy in PA '06ish (Herbie IR, Darby, lost beloveds on the HIH site Echo, Dylan, Pebbles, Cherry, Misty who was C/IR)
---In EquineCushings@..., <dianeschneider1@...> wrote :

My PPID horse, Rocky, had to be put down as a result of colic. I have
52, 2mg Pergolide capsules from Pet Health pharmacy that I will send to
someone who can use them.

Diane


MIRG calculations

k frog
 

My boss is trying to figure out the math behind the MIRG calculations. I gave him a copy of the calculations off the Freil site (copy below) but he does not see a valid equation here. Help?

MIRG
Horses that have elevated blood glucose, or abnormally low insulin responses, may have RISQI and G:I results that are normal because they have actually crossed the line from insulin resistance to actual diabetes.
MIRG = modified insulin:glucose ratio. It is calculated by: [800 0.3 x (insulin 50)2] /(glucose 30)]. If G:I ratio or RISQI are positive, there is no need to do this calculation, but if the horse has symptoms of IR and those equations are normal, you should check the MIRG, especially if blood glucose is elevated. A MIRG result greater than 5.6 means the horse is IR and at risk of laminitis


We have a horse with normal G:I and RISQI, but symptoms all say IR.


Thanks, 

Karen CVT

Oregon, 2013



Re: New Member from Colorado

Suzanne Mansolilli
 

Uhg! I just spent about an hour on an addendum to this post and it DISAPPEARED when I inadvertently swept my cursor over a link I included.  BEWARE you all don't make the same mistake!!!
Anyway, thanks to all of you who taught me how to search the files for the info I needed to convince my veterinarian to do Monty's IR bloodwork NON-fasting, we now have an appointment for next Tuesday.  However...as I mentioned in the previous post below, 2 weeks ago I changed Monty's hay from an 8.9% s/s that he had been free-feeding through a small-hole hay net for the last year, to a 1.9% s/s.  Also, at the same time, because of Monty's excess weight (body score 7) and per suggestion from my vet and this group, I am feeding 2 meals/24 hr at the rate of 1.5% of current body weight.  

But my concern is the marked change in his attitude toward his food. When he free fed on the old hay, he ate approximately 18 lbs/24 hr (2% of current body weight), eating for 15-20 minute periods and napping in-between.  Now, during the last 2 weeks on the limited feeding schedule, he'll eat his portion from a hay net, but he doesn't stop from the time it's given to him until it's gone (7am - 12pm with a forced 1-hr break somewhere in the middle when I clean his boots and re-wrap his abcess.  Then he eats manure and searches the dry lot for anything on the ground that resembles hay, taking a few breaks for napping, for the next 7 hrs until it's time for the evening meal.  So he eats over a pound an hour on the "meal" schedule, whereas he ate much slower free-fed. 

I know how important it is for him to reduce his weight, but I'm concerned that this new eating style directly contradicts the intentions of all the literature I gathered for my veterinarian concerning the advantages of the non-fasting test.  My test is scheduled for 1 week from today, and I just switched him back to the free-feeding to calm him down. What should I do?? Is this OK or should I go back to the meals?  

I posted the analysis for both the old and new hays here:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/SuzanneM/ 

 

The old hay is the "Terry Porter ..." and the new is "Delta Hay Company's North End Middle" sample. Maybe from this you could tell me if he'll get as fat on the new stuff as he did on the old, or maybe it just depends on how much he eats of the new stuff.

At the same time, could you advise on which hay out of the 3 analyses from the Delta Hay Company I should purchase for the upcoming year?  I purchased a bit from the North End Middle cut as an emergency measure to get him off the stuff that disagreed with him so this last year.  Then I'll need help with mineral balancing.

I thank you for your support, or otherwise I'd be crazy by now.



---In EquineCushings@..., <suzannemansolilli@...> wrote :

I must mention that just this past week I changed Monty's hay from one that was 8.9% combined ESC + starch (which is what he'd been eating since last summer)  to a new hay that is 1.9% ESC + starch and 14.2 NSC.  I'm hoping it's OK to change his diet before the bloodwork???  I felt it was necessary to get him off the old hay ASAP, as I felt it was tipping him over the edge in regards to his foot soreness and rotation and the barn I'm at won't soak hay.  
 

SuzanneM and Monty

Western Colorado -- July, 2014

Case History:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/SuzanneM/

Photos:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1794323561

 

---In EquineCushings@..., <gentpony@...> wrote :

Hi SuzanneM

 

 

 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/160091

  

(sorry link not working for me right now):

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Blood%20Testing%20for%20IR%20%26%20Cushings%20Disease/

 

 

You already see physical signs of crestiness and patchy fat.  We use the IR test results (remember to get leptin, too) to monitor how effective the current diet is for controlling insulin resistance and to what degree, so the fact that Monty is eating prior to the blood draw is important.   If also PPID, that can complicate things, since PPID can also lead to insulin resistance, even if the ACTH is within the lab normals.  You may need tighter mineral balancing, lower s/s, more exercise, or even higher levels of pergolide to control IR, depending on the circumstances.   You will have a clearer idea where you stand with these persistent symptoms and the degree of IR / PPID control if you test, and at the same time will get a basis for evaluating any future changes.

 

Eva

SW Ontario,  Mar 2005

 


Re: pictures

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Karen,

Send them to me and I'll post them.


shilohmom "at" outlook "dot" com


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team








Re: Baron and Prascend

 

Thanks so much Mandy:
I thought that there was a recommendation  to use the compounded capsules because they work better than the Prascend.  Baron is still stiff.

The laminitis has cleared up but Baron continues to be a tad stiff.  Since he has tested positive for chronic lyme disease, I will be starting on the months worth of IV Oxy in September.  I haven't been able to start him sooner as I have been traveling and need to be here to do it properly.

Just want do cover all my bases--IR, Cushings, Lyme Disease ----- So hard to sort things out.
Kris,2005  Grass Valley, Ca


Re: pictures

kansteen5545@...
 

Hi Lavinia -
I tried it - when I click on the pics on my computer - and then open the pictures - nothing happens after that. The picture just sits there. If I right click on the opened picture, and then click on "open with windows",ect - it disappears for a second - but nothing gets loaded up - when I close out and click on the purple box - nothing happens - when I check the "photo" it says there are no photos.
Karen
Scarborough,ME
May 2014






---- "shilohmom@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

Hi Karen,

To add photos to your album first open the album. Then click on the purple icon on the upper right side of the screen "Add Photos". A box will come up titled Add Photos. Click on the small box with the arrow in it "add photos", which will open a screen to your computer. Find the pics on your computer, click on them and then hit "open". This will send them to the album. Once they have uploaded, click Post Photos in the purple box and they will be added to the album.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team



Re: pictures

kansteen5545@...
 

Thanks Lavinia! I'll give it a try!
Karen
Scarborough.ME
May 2014

---- "shilohmom@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

Hi Karen,

To add photos to your album first open the album. Then click on the purple icon on the upper right side of the screen "Add Photos". A box will come up titled Add Photos. Click on the small box with the arrow in it "add photos", which will open a screen to your computer. Find the pics on your computer, click on them and then hit "open". This will send them to the album. Once they have uploaded, click Post Photos in the purple box and they will be added to the album.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team



Re: Baron and Prascend

Mandy Woods
 

Hi Kris,
Prascend is pergolide.   
Prascend is a tablet in a blister pack.  The drug is the same in compounded pergolide as Prascend.
Prascend costs a lot more than compounded pergolide.  It seems to average $2 a pill.
 
If your vet will write you a script ~ many of us use Pet Health. 1-800-742-0516    The web site is   www.pethealthpharmacy.com
 
You’ll pay about $30 for 30 pills at Pet Health.
 
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003
 
 
 


Baron and Prascend

 

Hello group:

I am completely overwhelmed and cannot seem to sort through all the information.   I just want to know if I should give my IR/Cushings horse prascend or pergolide.  Please let me know or direct me to the appropriate information.  

Baron was just recently diagnosed with Cushings, via Cornell.   He is now on 1mg a day   


Thanks so much,

Kris, 2005  Grass Valley Ca

EC Case History 3



Re: Shawnee and Carrera markups

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Melanie,

I would hope he would understand. You can also print out the message I posted with the description of what the mark-ups are:


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/188591


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team


Re: ACTH results

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Maureen,

Glad to hear she is feeling better. The lingering soreness could be due to the uncontrolled PPID, IR, trim or a combination of all of theses. I posted the Cornell results in McKenna's file:


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Maureen%20and%20McKenna/


Did you also request Glucose, as that was not included? The dates on the report say the blood was drawn on 8/5 (Tues) but not received until 8/8 (Fri). Do you know when the sample was shipped?


When you plug her insulin value into the IR calculator McKenna comes up severe IR, laminitis risk. Check out the calculator here:


http://www.freil.com/~mlf/IR/ir.html


With that ACTH she needs to start/increase her pergolide dose. How much will depend on the form and whether she is already on the drug or not. We recommend compounded capsules. I would plan on at least a 2mg dose as you are battling the seasonal rise effects now as well as where the ACTH was already at. Need to titrate up to that dosage.


Can you post some current hoof pics for her?


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team 







Shawnee and Carrera markups

taxwizardsmel@...
 

Thank you Lavinia for the markups. The farrier comes today. We he understand what to do from the orange and pink lines?

I will start a folder for Carrera and Shawnee in echistory 8 today

Melanie and Shawnee

Aug 13 Oregon


Re: Shawnee Labs

taxwizardsmel@...
 

Hi Kathleen

Thank you so much.

I did have the vet draw blood for iron on Aug 11. Since that goes to Kansas it take I think she said a week and half?? to get the results back. I will post it as soon as I do.

I am going to take him for hand walks with his softrides to provide him some exercise.

I do not have him on bute.

Do I keep him off of the bute?

Melanie and Shawnee

Aug 13 Oregon


Re: Soaking hay

Sheri Becker
 

Also other than dirt,you have to remember, if you make tea for yourself it is usually yellow or darker and many of those leaves are green .You are essentially making 'hay tea' when you soak .
Sheri in PA
2007


Re: Pergolide to give away

Nancy C
 

I am so sorry, Diane. Thinking of you and Rocky.

Thank you for thinking of others.


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc

 


Re: Soaking hay

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Susan,

Yes, that is normal. Sugar is colorless but dirt on the hay is not and that is what you are seeing. If the water turns really dark, you might consider giving the hay a rinse before submerging it to soak so that you start the soak in clean rather than iron-rich water.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team





Re: Stormy - need advice on perg. dose, please

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Teri,

Yes, it's probably a Neo thing on the link - although it did attach to your reply so who knows. When you have a moment, it would be helpful if you deleted the older history, as long as all the info in it is also in the updated version.


I'm with you on trying to wrap my head around a difficult case. One of my boys is currently on 16mg pergolide, which controlled his ACTH perfectly well during the rise last year but then his ACTH just started climbing again. At last check in April 2014, it was 225pg/ml (Cornell) and probably still climbing. That doesn't make sense as that is not a PPID driven rise. That was the same scenario as a year previous, when he had been on 12mg pergolide with solidly controlled ACTH during the rise but then lost it during the late winter and early spring.


His symptoms are an enlarged crest, more pu/pd and increased smegma production. His insulin and glucose are on the rise although diet is tight. But it doesn't appear to affect his attitude or soundness - yet. I'm terrified that laminitis is lurking around the corner.


I agree that as the base dose of pergolide gets higher, increases can be made more quickly and with larger increments, although my boy has never had an issue with pergolide veil. When I first tested him, his ACTH was 1088pg/ml. He went from no pergolide to 9mg in 6 weeks.


It's wonderful when you have a vet who will work with you and who trusts that you know your horse well enough to see changes that are red flags for trouble brewing. I am also lucky to have a vet that is willing to work with me.


You sound like you are extremely in tune with what Stormy needs. Obviously, frequent testing is the Gold Standard for monitoring status but that isn't always possible due to logistics and/or finances. We all do the best we can. Knowing your animal well is the best thing that you can do and is a legitimate substitute to use when balancing the costs and logistics with the need to provide top notch care.


Lavinia, DAnte, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team







Re: Pergolide to give away

Diane Schneider
 

Thanks everyone for the condolences.  The pergolide I have has been spoken for.Diane

97461 - 97480 of 282373