Date   

Re: Vetoryl for hoses?

sally.stork
 


 

 

Susan: My vet told me years ago that the vet at Michigan State that did prascend study told her prascend or any type of pergolide from Aug 1st--NOv does NOT CONTROL acth seasonal surges----that doubling prascend is not going to have much effect or even 5x at 5mg. So using liquid, powder pergolide is not going to drop numbers magically in aug,sept in middle of peak surge----as surge lowers in oct.nov, acth comes down normally---you might give the liquid/powder credit for something it will not really be doing. She also said a study in US had numbers jumping over 200 points in some horses in seasonal surge----Sally, Elkton,MD since 2009


Re: Vetoryl for hoses?

Nancy C
 

Hi Susan

You probably know this but just in case.....

Those of us going higher because Prascend did not control ACTH are using compound thanks to our great vets.

Check out recent posts on compounded.  You are not alone.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
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---In EquineCushings@..., <szingle@...> wrote :
My 500 +/- pound pony is not controlled on 5 mg of Prascend a day (given once in the morning in his feed).
Susan, with Pony from Chicago, 2003


Interaction with CTB

Lauren N
 

Hello again! Does anyone know if CTB interacts with any other supplements or medications? I feel like this is a good route to go but just want to make sure no interactions will occur in my horse! Thanks!


Lauren     

Arizona

Sept 2014


Re: L-lysine

Joyce/K-J Hollow Andalusians
 

Awesome, Thank you!


Re: L-lysine

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Lysine is about 10 grams/tablespoon.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com

EC Co-owner

Feb 2001


Re: Vetoryl for hoses?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Fourth attempt to answer this.  Message keeps disappearing!

Trilostane does not control pituitary enlargement or ACTH levels. It helps control cortisol release in response to ACTH.

Efficacy of trilostane for the treatment of equ... [Equine Vet J. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI

 

The 5 mg upper limit for pergolide (UK) or 3 mg (US) is *not* based on formal toxicity studies, only on dosages that have been reported in the literature.


Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com

EC Co-owner

Feb 2001





L-lysine

Joyce/K-J Hollow Andalusians
 

Was reading an article on L-lysine stating 10 to 20 grams/day.  My feed mill sell feed grade 99% L-lysine, but the tag does not have a grams per lb.  Any idea what it would be?

Thanks,
Joyce

June 2006



Re: Vetoryl for hoses?

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Susan,


See message 188335, from Lavinia:


"PPID in horses is different than Cushings in dogs. Different parts of the pituitary are involved so different drugs are used.


Lysodren isn't used in horses as its function is to destroy layers of the adrenals to lower the amount of cortisol being produced while Pergolide is used to replace the action of the lost dopaminergic neurons.Trilostane can be used but not much research available in horses and cost, if similar to that for dogs, would likely be prohibitive."




Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
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https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.igive.com/welcome/warmwelcome.cfm?c=65676

 





Vetoryl for hoses?

Susan Zingle
 

My 500 +/- pound pony is not controlled on 5 mg of Prascend a day (given once in the morning in his feed). He is fed ODTBD cubes exclusively, turned out in weedy paddock with grazing muzzle.   Trim is good, hasn't had a laminitis flare up in over a year (knock on wood).  Latest ACTH (about a month ago) 179.  In January, was 44.  Realize we are in seasonal rise, but 179 is way over the top of the Liphook seasonal graph.  Not sure the reasoning, but Prascend literature does not recommend more than 5 mg a day.  I know many on this list go much higher.  So, vet suggested we switch to Vetoryl.   Saunders Handbook of Veterinary Drugs discusses dosage of vetoryl for horses, and it stipulates it is for pituitary-dependent cushings.  Vet is checking on price.  Has anybody had any experience with Vetoryl (trilostane)?  Google search and search of The Journal didn't give me any articles or studies.  Thanks in advance.

Susan, with Pony from Chicago, 2003


Re: Pergalide and Chaste Tree

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Audrey(?),


Prascend is pergolide, but is the patented form of the medication. Chastetree berry will not control the ACTH although it helps many horses with some of the outward symptoms of PPID like not shedding, which doesn't always resolve even when the dose of pergolide/Prascend is correct. Either form of pergolide will need to be increased over time as PPID is a progressive disease. The manufacturer of Prascend does not acknowledge this fact. Would be great to know the details of your experiences - do you have a case history for your horse?


Could you be a bit clearer on "they are not compounding it correctly"?


Would you please add your name, general geographic location and year of joining to your future posts. We also ask that you delete most of the message you're replying to so the posts do not become reams of repeat info that make it difficult sift thru. Helps things run more smoothly on a list as large as this one. Appreciate your help with this.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team




Re: Feeding the IR horse

kansteen5545@...
 

Hi Lavinia -
Yes - I have looked at the various hoof supplements and they all seem to have a lot of other stuff in them.
Thanks for your reply.
Karen
Scarborough,ME
May 2014

-- "shilohmom@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

Hi Karen
If your hay is analyzed so that you can then supplement according to the specific excesses and deficiencies that it has then adding an additional hoof supplement is not necessary as you are already covering those bases.


Re: Gift of pergoiled

kansteen5545@...
 

Hi Nancy -
Thanks for your reply - I just finished reading the articles at the links you provided. Good information.
Karen
Scarborough,ME
May 2014



---- "threecatfarm@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

Hi Karen
Most hoof supplements are comprised of copper and zinc as well as biotin and methionine. >
Once you have your hay analyzed, you'll be able to finely target the copper and zinc to balance the iron and manganese.


Re: Pergalide and Chaste Tree

 

I order my CTB from Thriving Pets when I order my pergolide - it is just easier for me.

Jean and Amber
In South Carolina
August 2004


Re: Pergalide and Chaste Tree

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Lauren,


If your horse is showing some outward symptoms of PPID, like coat doesn't shed, that aren't resolving even tho the ACTH is well controlled by the pergolide dose then adding CTB may help those symptoms. Starting dose would be 1oz by weight. If you don't see improvement in 2 weeks, can raise the dose. You will need to keep using it daily throughout the summer to maintain the effects then stop it in the fall to allow the coat to grow in for the winter. There is a database for anyone who is trying this to add their info into:



I started two of my boys on the CTB to in addition to their pergolide to see if I could get them to shed. It worked really well on one of them - he shed nicely and didn't need to be shaved this summer to keep him comfortable. The other it worked somewhat - he shed more than he would have without the CTB but not fully.

I was using the powdered herb from:


You could also try the liquid extract from Emerald Valley, Evitex. The extract is a standardized concentration but is also quite a bit pricier than the powdered herb. It's a trade-off.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team




Re: Feeding the IR horse

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 


Hi Karen,

If your hay is analyzed so that you can then supplement according to the specific excesses and deficiencies that it has then adding an additional hoof supplement is not necessary as you are already covering those bases.

Most general hoof supplements target the deficiencies that are common in equine diets - copper, zinc, biotin and methionine - so they tend to show some positive results. They also tend to include other ingredients that aren't needed like iron. They'll never be as good as one tailored specifically for your circumstances.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team













Re: Pergalide and Chaste Tree

Lauren N
 

Jean and Amber,
Thank you so much for responding! My horse is on 3mg of pergalide and I would love to try CTB with it! Do you get yours from any place in particular? Thank you so much!

Lauren
in Arizona


Re: Is APF Pro safe to use if APF is unavailable?

Nancy C
 

Hi Sue

APF Pro is a different formula from APF.  At one time I was told that APF is what we need for PPID horses. If you call or write Auburn Labs, they are really good about answering questions.

If your source can get Pro, they should be able to get regular APF as well.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





-


Re: Gift of pergoiled

Nancy C
 

Hi Karen

Most hoof supplements are comprised of copper and zinc as well as biotin and methionine.

Once you have your hay analyzed, you'll be able to finely target the copper and zinc to balance the iron and manganese.

A lot of us add biotin and methionine as well.

Here's some research

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/163091

 



The benefit of analyzing is to get exactly what you need in an amount that helps your horse, vs one-size-fits-all in general hoof supplements.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <kansteen5545@...> wrote :

Hi Lorna -
It was more of a hypothetical question regarding the need for Biotin and Methionine for an IR/Cushings horse - however - here is my case history link:https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Karen%20and20%Bay%20Lady/
I


Re: Hay testing UK

Lesley Fraser
 

Thank you - I didn’t realise Forage Plus sent them over to Dairy One. Excellent.

Lesley & Omar
2012, UK


Re: Pergalide and Chaste Tree

Audrey Samilow
 

My horse did both and was not successful on the chaste tree. I had to switch him to the prasend because his cushings went out of control on the pergolide, I heard that they are not compounding it correctly. 
Audrey

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 9, 2014, at 5:46 PM, "laurenn1717@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

 

Hi! I have a horse who has both Cushings and Anhydrosis. Right now he is on Pergalide to control his Cushings and a supplement to help him sweat. He grows a coat like a polar bear and I have heard great things about Chaste Tree Berry but I am concerned it will interact with the pergalide. Has anyone ever had their horse on both pergalide and Chaste Tree? Thank you!

Lauren


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