Date   

Re: NuZu Stabul Nuggets online store

gypsylassie
 




---In EquineCushings@..., <nuzufeed@...> wrote :

We have had a number of requests for a nutritional reward that is modeled after the Stabul 1 protocol.

The Stabul Nuggets are 3/4" in diameter, 10% min protein, 2.5% fat, 23% fiber and balanced for vitamins and minerals. Fenugreek flavoring for now but we have banana, licorice, peanut butter and peppermint in mind. To make it easier for everyone we created a online store that you can purchase them through.  shop.nuzufeed.com



Just tried the Stabul Nuggets and the boys love them.  It's nice to have another option for when we want to treat our IR horses.  ( s/s under 10% )  They're a nice size and texture too.  About the size of a small thumb, firm but breakable, so they are ok in a pocket, easy to break in half and easy to chew.  Nice to share with friends' horses on our little group trail rides too.  Often those horses look at me like I'm nuts when I offer a peanut in the shell or a piece of celery.  

Laura K. Chappie & Beau

N.IL.2011


Re: MIkado Update and looking for advice

Nancy C
 

Hi Jana

It would not surprise me that his glucose is low after work. When you are stumped you need to think about DDT+E

It appears your PPID is controlled.  Looks like other blood work is good, but I could be wrong.

Check the file on putting our metabolic guys back to work here. 

Feeding Recovered Laminitics

With Sandra, check protein and amino acids.  You might need to add Lysine and Leucine.


But most importantly check his salt.  You report he is sweating and that will have a huge impact if salt is not increased to accommodate loss.


Quick loss of "weight" during hot days could be dehydration.


Anemia could be from copper deficiency due to excess iron (has his water been checked?) or an uncontrolled disease, like PPID. 


If his trim is not right or he is foot sore, that could also contribute (hence the request for pics)


No magic answers, I am afraid.  Just some places to go to try to tweak.


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.






Re: Torfi and Fengur, Icelandic geldings need home

 

Sorry, folks, I forgot to sign my message about Torfi and Fengur.

Jannalee
Jannalee Smithey, EDO
Talent, Oregon
2006


Torfi and Fengur, Icelandic geldings need home

 


Dear Group,

I am posting this for a client of mine, who has two icelandic geldings needing a new home together. Donna Brownfield in Southern Oregon (541-821-4799) writes:

"My 23-yr-old Icelandic gelding,Torfi, has been diagnosed with IR and Cushings. He does not have any lameness now and has never been lame in the past. From bloodwork sent to Cornell, his Glucose result is 114 and his ACTH is 90.0. He needs low-carb feed, exercise, medication, clipping, and blanketing.

I have made the decision to find him a new home as we are retired and do a lot of traveling. I can’t expect a boarding facility to take the proper care that he needs now.
He competed in 5-gait and one of the highlights of his career was Reserve Champion in 5-gait at the Icelandic West Coast Championship in 2001.

He is a wonderful trail horse and can be ridden away from the barn with no argument and does not spook. I got him from the friend that showed him. They moved to Florida and it turned out that he is allergic to the biting bugs there. His ears have permanent edema from that experience, and one of them flops over, but it has not given him any trouble.

Torfi has a very good buddy, Fengur, who must go with him. Fengur is 22-yrs old. They have lived together for many years and are very close. I can’t separate them. Fengur has not been tested but I don’t think he has IR or Cushings. He is also an excellent riding horse and has been in the Tournament of Roses Equestrian Festival and Night of the Horse Del Mar.

The Icelandic Horse is renowned for being hardy, athletic, independent, spirited and sure footed. Both geldings are around 13 hands.

They would need their own space, as they can be very aggressive to other horses.

We are in Southern Oregon. Please contact me at 541-821-4799 for more info."
***
I will try to post their photos now.

Thanks, everyone. I'm sure hoping that someone has room for these sweet boys. 

Jannalee



Re: Prascend and Spookiness?

Rebecca Marment <r_marment@...>
 

Hi

My boy also became spooky, to the point where he actually scared me. He would spook, spin and bolt. He has always been a bit nutty (warmblood cross), but never that bad. I asked my vet if it was the Prescend but he said no. A friend's horse, also on Prescend, has been equally as spooky!

Rebecca and Hutch
September 2012
UK

Sent from my Windows Phone

From: nblase56@... [EquineCushings]
Sent: 23/09/2014 01:18
To: EquineCushings@...
Subject: [EquineCushings] Prascend and Spookiness?

 

Hi 

My 21 year old warmblood gelding was diagnosed with Cushings about two years ago. He has been well controlled on Prascend. Over this period of time he has become increasingly spooky. My vet has been very engaged and has pretty much exhausted all potential issues (feet, teeth, ears, back, hocks, cannons, Lyme Disease). He was never spooky before but it has become an increasing problem. Is it possible he is having some reaction to his medication? He takes one tablet of Prascend per day along with Prevacox. The only supplement he gets is SmartPak UltraCalm (thought this might help the spookiness).

Thanks for your help in trying to sort through this issue. 


Re: Repost MIkado Update and looking for advice

feldermannj
 

Hi Lorna,
my apologies for the two additional files, but I tried the best I can to add the numbers in the CH, but I failed. I am working with an old laptop and LInux, many things doesn't work normal. Would it be asked too much, if I cordially beg you to have a look at this two additional files in the Jana and Mikado folder? If so, it will take some time to get the numbers in the ch, I have to ask a friend for help.

I'm sorry I don't have new hoof pictures, I don't own a camera. If it is nessecary I will lend one and take pictures.
But the hoofes are not the main problem at the moment... I really would be very very happy, if there is someone who can tell me why my pony isn't hale. I would also appreciate advice on what I can do for further diagnosis. All vets I consulted are clueless, only advice I got was to feed extra iron.

Jana  Germany 09.11

ECHistory7


Re: QUESTION TO THE GROUP

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Hi Jane,

We're only talking about a 2 week supply here.  If you don't want to go Prascend, try Pet Health.  Again, two week supply then recheck ACTH.  If there is a dramatic drop in that short a period of time this time of year, good chance it was the pergolide.  You really need to know this because if the pergolide you are currently using is not up to potency you will waste a lot of time and money trying to increase it and get control - not to mention risking laminitis in the process.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: QUESTION TO THE GROUP

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Jane,


Many of us use Pet Health Pharmacy:


http://www.pethealthpharmacy.com/


You can call them and ask for pricing on various strengths.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team




Re: Switching from pergolide to Prascend

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Jan,


Sorry to hear this - hope you are sitting down when you see the cost difference.


What dose(s) are your mini's on? Ideally, there should be no difference between the two forms but depending on the where your compounded perg is from, how often you have the scripts refilled and how it's been stored there may be a difference. Just be aware of possible pergolide veil issues when switching over. If you can, do a gradual change where you introduce the Prascend while reducing the amount of the compounded over a week or so.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team





Switching from pergolide to Prascend

Jan D
 

I can no longer get the compounded capsules for my miniature horses.  Are there any precautions when switching over to the Prascend?  Can you do it all at once if the dose is the same? 
 
Jan
NW IN
2002


Re: QUESTION TO THE GROUP

Jane Hewitt
 

Hi Nancy:
Thanks for your input; who would you recommend for another compouding pharmacy? I've used ThrivingPets for years and I checked the files for other facilities but they want me to set-up accounts and I'm just really interested in how much 5mg capsules are?
Jane


Re: QUESTION TO THE GROUP

Nancy C
 

Hi Jan

I know this is hard.   Prascend at 5 mg, it did not control Beau's ACTH. 

It seems there is not a clear "go here, do this" kind of answer for you.  You have to pick your best option based on your situation. 

Five pills is a piece of cake for us as I outlined.  He actually gets 4xs that number using the method I described. And he still loves me. :-)

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 








---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote :

Hi Jane

The best route is the 5 mg per day of Prascend for two weeks then retest as she outlined in her message to you:

Since he's totally asymptomatic though, what you might try is putting him on 2 weeks of Prascend at 5 mg then retesting.  If there is a dramatic difference, your pergolide is the problem.

That would be about $125.00 investment if you cand get  them to give you 2.3 boxes (versus three).  Then retest.

If not in the budget, and I get that, then switching pharmacies would be my next move. Then retest.



Cashel Company: FEED RITE™ BAG

 



Re: Need bloodwork advisement

Maggie
 

>>Hello!  I've just discovered this group
 
Hi Kerry,
 
Welcome to the group!  I'm on my out the door, but wanted to briefly welcome you and answer a couple of your questions.
 
First of all, your post is not obnoxious!  You did everything just right.  You are ahead of the game just knowing hat there is a case history that you need to fill out!  But do get that done as soon as time permits as it gives us the details we need to help you better!
 
Now, the lab work.  You are right--do NOT do the dex test!  It can actually push some horses over the edge into laminitis.  Don't want that!  At the age of 20, Pinky is certainly a candidate for Cushings' (PPID).   Unfortunately, the blood that you already sent in is probably not going to be OK for doing the ACTH test, which is what you need for a Cushing's diagnosis.  The ACTH degrades rather quickly and needs to be put on ice immediately after being drawn and centrifuged within 4 hours, the sooner the better.  Actually this is not a bad time of the year to draw ACTH.  PPID horses have an exaggerated, and often prolonged rise in their ACTH during the seasonal rise, so we use a different range for them.  We like the labs to go to Cornell because they are the only ones that do leptin levels.  A leptin level helps to determine if your horse is IR at baseline or if the insulin is high secondary to a high ACTH.  Here's a link to Cornell's website:  https://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/test/list.aspx?Species=Equine&WebDisc=&TstTyp=&Test_Name=ACTH   You can choose the ACTH, insulin, leptin bundled test and then add a glucose to give you the 4 tests that recommend to get a complete diagnosis (ACTH, insulin, leptin and glucose).
 
Here's a link to our website with more information about the seasonal rise and also all you need to know about getting your labs.  Use the tabs on the left to maneuver through the site.  There's also information about our philosophy DDT/E, Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise!
 
Ok, I'm out the door!  But I hope that helps!  Looking forward to your participation in our group!
 
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


 


Re: QUESTION TO THE GROUP

Jane Hewitt
 

Hi Nancy:
Thanks for your input; I know you have Beau on a higher dosage of pergolide and wondered if you ever tried the Prascend? I'm concerned with the price and the fact that he'd have to five pills as opposed to just one with the pergolide. I'm due to get another script for my pergolide through ThrivingPets and I don't know if I should try another pharmacy or have my vet increase the dosage to 6MG and then retest or increase dosage to an even higher amount within that two week period? I'm very confused on how to go about finding what I need to do in keeping him from a laminitis attack. The ACTH is steadily increasing and is now at 332 up from 247 in July. I can't afford to try the Prascend and then the retesting of ACTH, the pergolide with a recheck is more cost effective for me. I look forward to your response.
Thanks,

Jane Hewitt in North Reading, MA
Sept 2000

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory8/files/Lad and Jane/Revised Case History for Lad/Lad New Case History 082014.doc/


---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote :

Hi Jane

I hope Dr Kellon might weigh in but will give you input based on my experience.

The best route is the 5 mg per day of Prascend for two weeks then retest as she outlined in her message to you:

Since he's totally asymptomatic though, what you might try is putting him on 2 weeks of Prascend at 5 mg then retesting.  If there is a dramatic difference, your pergolide is the problem.

That would be about $125.00 investment if you cand get  them to give you 2.3 boxes (versus three).  Then retest.

If not in the budget, and I get that, then switching pharmacies would be my next move. Then retest.

You may still need to titrate up as Dr Kellon outlined in her message.  Might want to reread it if you have not already.

FWIW, Beau gets a lot of pills right now.  I have had great luck using a Cashel feed bag and a cup of Nuzu Stabul one.  He loves the Nuzu and never fails to eat the pills with this method. I'm able to put the bag on, attend to my other gelding Skip, water, throw hay,  then remove the feed bag.  Everybody is happy.

Cashel Company: FEED RITE™ BAG

 


Keep us posted

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <jhewitt7408@...> wrote :

I just checked out the prices for Prascend on ThrivingPets and I'm unable to afford the listed price,


Re: Broken Links - REMINDER please vote

Jane Hewitt
 

Hi Lorna:
I did see her message but it really didn't give me any direction as to increasing, he's on pergolide because I can't afford prescend.
Thanks,
Jane


Re: Broken Links - REMINDER please vote

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Jane,


Maybe you missed Dr. Kellon's reply,message 189309.


Don't forget to delete old text before hitting Send.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.igive.com/welcome/warmwelcome.cfm?c=65676

 



Re: QUESTION TO THE GROUP

Nancy C
 

Hi Jane

I hope Dr Kellon might weigh in but will give you input based on my experience.

The best route is the 5 mg per day of Prascend for two weeks then retest as she outlined in her message to you:

Since he's totally asymptomatic though, what you might try is putting him on 2 weeks of Prascend at 5 mg then retesting.  If there is a dramatic difference, your pergolide is the problem.

That would be about $125.00 investment if you cand get  them to give you 2.3 boxes (versus three).  Then retest.

If not in the budget, and I get that, then switching pharmacies would be my next move. Then retest.

You may still need to titrate up as Dr Kellon outlined in her message.  Might want to reread it if you have not already.

FWIW, Beau gets a lot of pills right now.  I have had great luck using a Cashel feed bag and a cup of Nuzu Stabul one.  He loves the Nuzu and never fails to eat the pills with this method. I'm able to put the bag on, attend to my other gelding Skip, water, throw hay,  then remove the feed bag.  Everybody is happy.

Cashel Company: FEED RITE™ BAG

 


Keep us posted

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <jhewitt7408@...> wrote :

I just checked out the prices for Prascend on ThrivingPets and I'm unable to afford the listed price,


Re: Broken Links - REMINDER please vote

Jane Hewitt
 

I've voted; still waiting to hear back from someone in the group as to the next steps to take with increasing Lad's pergolide.
Jane Hewitt in North Reading, MA
Sept 2000
 


On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 8:56 AM, "threecatfarm@... [EquineCushings]" wrote:


 
Hi All

As many of you know our LINKS are not redirecting unless you take the old category word "pets" out of the URL.

I have submitted a request with Yahoo "uservoice" that yahoo members can vote on.  This request is now 26th  on the engineers "list of things to do", up from 221st.

IME, more votes move the request up the list and can eventually lead to a fix.  Takes a while but it can work. It will help to let them hear from us.  Thank you, thank you, to those who have already done so!

Please go here to cast your vote.

https://yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/209451-us-groups/suggestions/6466598-broken-links

Thanks for your help.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
The ecirhorse.org website is complimentary to the Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance outreach group. Equine Cushing's Disease, also known ...
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Re: Jazzy / was Ollie Has His Wings 1980-2014

Shari Starr
 

Linda, I'm so sorry to hear about Jazzy. Colic...the worst. I lost my Snickers a little over a year ago from colic also. I will light a candle for Jazzy tonight in honor of the love the 2 of you share. If you want a support through this very tough time come visit us at the Hoofbeats In Heaven Yahoo Support group. Healing happens there. Hugs to you Linda I'll keep you lifted up in prayer for comfort. Here is a poem that helped me a lot: "Gone From My Sight" “I am standing upon the seashore. A ship at my side spreads her white sails to the morning breeze and starts for the blue ocean. She is an object of beauty and strength.
I stand and watch her until at length she hangs like a speck of white cloud just where the sea and sky come to mingle with each other. Then, someone at my side says; "There, she is gone!"
"Gone where?" Gone from my sight. That is all. She is just as large in mast and hull and spar as she was when she left my side and she is just as able to bear her load of living freight to her destined port. Her diminished size is in me, not in her. And just at the moment when someone
at my side says, "There, she is gone!" There are other eyes watching her coming, and other voices ready to take up the glad shout; "Here she comes!" Henry Van Dyke

 

Shari, Fly Free, Snickers mom

ECIR June, 2013

Western, WA


Need bloodwork advisement

Kerry Isherwood
 

Hello!  I've just discovered this group and I'm bucking etiquette by posting before completing my horse's Case History but I have a time-sensitive inquiry:

I have a confirmed IR mare, 20yo drafty-cross, well-controlled with diet (Timothy Balance cubes) & maintenance Rx levothyroxine (Thyro-L).  Recently we started giving hyaluronate sodium (Legend) IV every month (we compete in rated eventing) and decided to move up our insulin testing to monthly to coincide with the injection/venipuncture (previously we were testing as needed, roughly every 3 months).  I drew blood this morning (Im a licensed vet tech) and sent it to Antech, our hospital's lab.  I'm doing the usual insulin:glucose plus a CBC/Chem (annual wellness check), and will add on a T4/ T3/ free T4 after my quick look through the groups links.  My question is, what blood tests could I add on with this draw to start screening for Cushings?  My equine vet & I hadn't given Cushings much thought b/c my mare is in such good body condition and her coat is not 'classically Cush' but the more research i do, the more I believe my mare is pre-Cushingoid---I'm just overwhelmed with the myriad of semi-useful blood testing (I do *not*T want to do the low dose dex test).  I only have a few days that I can add tests onto my already drawn blood sample, which brings this post full circle, and why I obnoxiously posted without all the pertinent facts of a proper case history:  I was just hoping someone would advise me post haste so I could start testing for Cushings with this blood draw instead of waiting another month (or worse, having to stick the old mare yet again!)

In summary:

Blood drawn 9/23/14, 8am
(2) serum separators and (1) lavendar EDTA tube

Antech tests requested:
equine insulin:glucose tests & ratio
CBS/Chemistry
T4 /T3 /free T4
.....what else should I add?  I know ACTH is not considered accurate due to the season but is it worth charting it monthly for the sake of trending?  Cost is not a major concern (for bloodwork, anyway, as I own my own hospital).

Lastly, my apologies if this post was not appropriate---if it is more appropriate to have a private consult with Dr. Kellon instead of clogging up the listserv then admin please kindly send me the proper channels for doing so! 

Thank you so much for enduring my lengthy post, and to all, I'm so so so excited to have found this group:  watching my mare struggle when her insulin spikes is emotionally devastating, and the trial and error I've had to navigate with diet has been difficult, to say the least.  I'm very much in need of a support group!  :)


~Kerry, LVT-VTS(ECC)
Licensed Veterinary Technician, Emergency & Critical Care Specialist
Brewster, NY;
   and
"Pinky", 20yo QH/Draft mare, adopted 2004, former Premarin broodmare
diagnosed IR August, 2013
joined ECIR Sept, 2014

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