Date   

Switching from pergolide to Prascend

Jan D
 

I can no longer get the compounded capsules for my miniature horses.  Are there any precautions when switching over to the Prascend?  Can you do it all at once if the dose is the same? 
 
Jan
NW IN
2002


Re: QUESTION TO THE GROUP

Jane Hewitt
 

Hi Nancy:
Thanks for your input; who would you recommend for another compouding pharmacy? I've used ThrivingPets for years and I checked the files for other facilities but they want me to set-up accounts and I'm just really interested in how much 5mg capsules are?
Jane


Re: QUESTION TO THE GROUP

Nancy C
 

Hi Jan

I know this is hard.   Prascend at 5 mg, it did not control Beau's ACTH. 

It seems there is not a clear "go here, do this" kind of answer for you.  You have to pick your best option based on your situation. 

Five pills is a piece of cake for us as I outlined.  He actually gets 4xs that number using the method I described. And he still loves me. :-)

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 








---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote :

Hi Jane

The best route is the 5 mg per day of Prascend for two weeks then retest as she outlined in her message to you:

Since he's totally asymptomatic though, what you might try is putting him on 2 weeks of Prascend at 5 mg then retesting.  If there is a dramatic difference, your pergolide is the problem.

That would be about $125.00 investment if you cand get  them to give you 2.3 boxes (versus three).  Then retest.

If not in the budget, and I get that, then switching pharmacies would be my next move. Then retest.



Cashel Company: FEED RITE™ BAG

 



Re: Need bloodwork advisement

Maggie
 

>>Hello!  I've just discovered this group
 
Hi Kerry,
 
Welcome to the group!  I'm on my out the door, but wanted to briefly welcome you and answer a couple of your questions.
 
First of all, your post is not obnoxious!  You did everything just right.  You are ahead of the game just knowing hat there is a case history that you need to fill out!  But do get that done as soon as time permits as it gives us the details we need to help you better!
 
Now, the lab work.  You are right--do NOT do the dex test!  It can actually push some horses over the edge into laminitis.  Don't want that!  At the age of 20, Pinky is certainly a candidate for Cushings' (PPID).   Unfortunately, the blood that you already sent in is probably not going to be OK for doing the ACTH test, which is what you need for a Cushing's diagnosis.  The ACTH degrades rather quickly and needs to be put on ice immediately after being drawn and centrifuged within 4 hours, the sooner the better.  Actually this is not a bad time of the year to draw ACTH.  PPID horses have an exaggerated, and often prolonged rise in their ACTH during the seasonal rise, so we use a different range for them.  We like the labs to go to Cornell because they are the only ones that do leptin levels.  A leptin level helps to determine if your horse is IR at baseline or if the insulin is high secondary to a high ACTH.  Here's a link to Cornell's website:  https://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/test/list.aspx?Species=Equine&WebDisc=&TstTyp=&Test_Name=ACTH   You can choose the ACTH, insulin, leptin bundled test and then add a glucose to give you the 4 tests that recommend to get a complete diagnosis (ACTH, insulin, leptin and glucose).
 
Here's a link to our website with more information about the seasonal rise and also all you need to know about getting your labs.  Use the tabs on the left to maneuver through the site.  There's also information about our philosophy DDT/E, Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise!
 
Ok, I'm out the door!  But I hope that helps!  Looking forward to your participation in our group!
 
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


 


Re: QUESTION TO THE GROUP

Jane Hewitt
 

Hi Nancy:
Thanks for your input; I know you have Beau on a higher dosage of pergolide and wondered if you ever tried the Prascend? I'm concerned with the price and the fact that he'd have to five pills as opposed to just one with the pergolide. I'm due to get another script for my pergolide through ThrivingPets and I don't know if I should try another pharmacy or have my vet increase the dosage to 6MG and then retest or increase dosage to an even higher amount within that two week period? I'm very confused on how to go about finding what I need to do in keeping him from a laminitis attack. The ACTH is steadily increasing and is now at 332 up from 247 in July. I can't afford to try the Prascend and then the retesting of ACTH, the pergolide with a recheck is more cost effective for me. I look forward to your response.
Thanks,

Jane Hewitt in North Reading, MA
Sept 2000

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory8/files/Lad and Jane/Revised Case History for Lad/Lad New Case History 082014.doc/


---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote :

Hi Jane

I hope Dr Kellon might weigh in but will give you input based on my experience.

The best route is the 5 mg per day of Prascend for two weeks then retest as she outlined in her message to you:

Since he's totally asymptomatic though, what you might try is putting him on 2 weeks of Prascend at 5 mg then retesting.  If there is a dramatic difference, your pergolide is the problem.

That would be about $125.00 investment if you cand get  them to give you 2.3 boxes (versus three).  Then retest.

If not in the budget, and I get that, then switching pharmacies would be my next move. Then retest.

You may still need to titrate up as Dr Kellon outlined in her message.  Might want to reread it if you have not already.

FWIW, Beau gets a lot of pills right now.  I have had great luck using a Cashel feed bag and a cup of Nuzu Stabul one.  He loves the Nuzu and never fails to eat the pills with this method. I'm able to put the bag on, attend to my other gelding Skip, water, throw hay,  then remove the feed bag.  Everybody is happy.

Cashel Company: FEED RITE™ BAG

 


Keep us posted

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <jhewitt7408@...> wrote :

I just checked out the prices for Prascend on ThrivingPets and I'm unable to afford the listed price,


Re: Broken Links - REMINDER please vote

Jane Hewitt
 

Hi Lorna:
I did see her message but it really didn't give me any direction as to increasing, he's on pergolide because I can't afford prescend.
Thanks,
Jane


Re: Broken Links - REMINDER please vote

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Jane,


Maybe you missed Dr. Kellon's reply,message 189309.


Don't forget to delete old text before hitting Send.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.igive.com/welcome/warmwelcome.cfm?c=65676

 



Re: QUESTION TO THE GROUP

Nancy C
 

Hi Jane

I hope Dr Kellon might weigh in but will give you input based on my experience.

The best route is the 5 mg per day of Prascend for two weeks then retest as she outlined in her message to you:

Since he's totally asymptomatic though, what you might try is putting him on 2 weeks of Prascend at 5 mg then retesting.  If there is a dramatic difference, your pergolide is the problem.

That would be about $125.00 investment if you cand get  them to give you 2.3 boxes (versus three).  Then retest.

If not in the budget, and I get that, then switching pharmacies would be my next move. Then retest.

You may still need to titrate up as Dr Kellon outlined in her message.  Might want to reread it if you have not already.

FWIW, Beau gets a lot of pills right now.  I have had great luck using a Cashel feed bag and a cup of Nuzu Stabul one.  He loves the Nuzu and never fails to eat the pills with this method. I'm able to put the bag on, attend to my other gelding Skip, water, throw hay,  then remove the feed bag.  Everybody is happy.

Cashel Company: FEED RITE™ BAG

 


Keep us posted

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <jhewitt7408@...> wrote :

I just checked out the prices for Prascend on ThrivingPets and I'm unable to afford the listed price,


Re: Broken Links - REMINDER please vote

Jane Hewitt
 

I've voted; still waiting to hear back from someone in the group as to the next steps to take with increasing Lad's pergolide.
Jane Hewitt in North Reading, MA
Sept 2000
 


On Tuesday, September 23, 2014 8:56 AM, "threecatfarm@... [EquineCushings]" wrote:


 
Hi All

As many of you know our LINKS are not redirecting unless you take the old category word "pets" out of the URL.

I have submitted a request with Yahoo "uservoice" that yahoo members can vote on.  This request is now 26th  on the engineers "list of things to do", up from 221st.

IME, more votes move the request up the list and can eventually lead to a fix.  Takes a while but it can work. It will help to let them hear from us.  Thank you, thank you, to those who have already done so!

Please go here to cast your vote.

https://yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/209451-us-groups/suggestions/6466598-broken-links

Thanks for your help.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.
The ecirhorse.org website is complimentary to the Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance outreach group. Equine Cushing's Disease, also known ...
Preview by Yahoo




Re: Jazzy / was Ollie Has His Wings 1980-2014

Shari Starr
 

Linda, I'm so sorry to hear about Jazzy. Colic...the worst. I lost my Snickers a little over a year ago from colic also. I will light a candle for Jazzy tonight in honor of the love the 2 of you share. If you want a support through this very tough time come visit us at the Hoofbeats In Heaven Yahoo Support group. Healing happens there. Hugs to you Linda I'll keep you lifted up in prayer for comfort. Here is a poem that helped me a lot: "Gone From My Sight" “I am standing upon the seashore. A ship at my side spreads her white sails to the morning breeze and starts for the blue ocean. She is an object of beauty and strength.
I stand and watch her until at length she hangs like a speck of white cloud just where the sea and sky come to mingle with each other. Then, someone at my side says; "There, she is gone!"
"Gone where?" Gone from my sight. That is all. She is just as large in mast and hull and spar as she was when she left my side and she is just as able to bear her load of living freight to her destined port. Her diminished size is in me, not in her. And just at the moment when someone
at my side says, "There, she is gone!" There are other eyes watching her coming, and other voices ready to take up the glad shout; "Here she comes!" Henry Van Dyke

 

Shari, Fly Free, Snickers mom

ECIR June, 2013

Western, WA


Need bloodwork advisement

Kerry Isherwood
 

Hello!  I've just discovered this group and I'm bucking etiquette by posting before completing my horse's Case History but I have a time-sensitive inquiry:

I have a confirmed IR mare, 20yo drafty-cross, well-controlled with diet (Timothy Balance cubes) & maintenance Rx levothyroxine (Thyro-L).  Recently we started giving hyaluronate sodium (Legend) IV every month (we compete in rated eventing) and decided to move up our insulin testing to monthly to coincide with the injection/venipuncture (previously we were testing as needed, roughly every 3 months).  I drew blood this morning (Im a licensed vet tech) and sent it to Antech, our hospital's lab.  I'm doing the usual insulin:glucose plus a CBC/Chem (annual wellness check), and will add on a T4/ T3/ free T4 after my quick look through the groups links.  My question is, what blood tests could I add on with this draw to start screening for Cushings?  My equine vet & I hadn't given Cushings much thought b/c my mare is in such good body condition and her coat is not 'classically Cush' but the more research i do, the more I believe my mare is pre-Cushingoid---I'm just overwhelmed with the myriad of semi-useful blood testing (I do *not*T want to do the low dose dex test).  I only have a few days that I can add tests onto my already drawn blood sample, which brings this post full circle, and why I obnoxiously posted without all the pertinent facts of a proper case history:  I was just hoping someone would advise me post haste so I could start testing for Cushings with this blood draw instead of waiting another month (or worse, having to stick the old mare yet again!)

In summary:

Blood drawn 9/23/14, 8am
(2) serum separators and (1) lavendar EDTA tube

Antech tests requested:
equine insulin:glucose tests & ratio
CBS/Chemistry
T4 /T3 /free T4
.....what else should I add?  I know ACTH is not considered accurate due to the season but is it worth charting it monthly for the sake of trending?  Cost is not a major concern (for bloodwork, anyway, as I own my own hospital).

Lastly, my apologies if this post was not appropriate---if it is more appropriate to have a private consult with Dr. Kellon instead of clogging up the listserv then admin please kindly send me the proper channels for doing so! 

Thank you so much for enduring my lengthy post, and to all, I'm so so so excited to have found this group:  watching my mare struggle when her insulin spikes is emotionally devastating, and the trial and error I've had to navigate with diet has been difficult, to say the least.  I'm very much in need of a support group!  :)


~Kerry, LVT-VTS(ECC)
Licensed Veterinary Technician, Emergency & Critical Care Specialist
Brewster, NY;
   and
"Pinky", 20yo QH/Draft mare, adopted 2004, former Premarin broodmare
diagnosed IR August, 2013
joined ECIR Sept, 2014


Re: Repost MIkado Update and looking for advice/NOW Attn:Margaret Ross

Maggie
 

Hi Margaret,
 
Welcome to the group!   Glad you found us, but sorry that you need to be here.  We really need some more information from you so that we can help you better.  To get that information, I need you to join one of our sister sites called ECH8, and fill out a case history. Here's the link to that group:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/info  Once you join, follow the instructions to fill out a case history on your horse.  In the meantime, I can give you some general information and recommendations of this group.  Our philosophy is called DDT/E, which stands for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.
 
Diagnosis:  First you really need to get a diagnosis on your boy--what's his name, btw?  It's a really important piece of information to guide you in the treatment.  To get a correct diagnosis, you need to have a single blood draw for ACTH, insulin, leptin and glucose.  The blood requires special handling, so go to our website and look at the details.  Look here for those details:  http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-diagnosis  The reason why you need to get a diagnosis is to see if you are dealing with PPID (Cushing's), insulin resistance (IR), or both.  The diagnosis dictates the treatment, with PPID being treated with medicine (pergolide), IR is treated with Diet, and a combination of PPID and IR would need both pergolide and careful dietary management.  How long have you been having trouble with "founder issues"?  Foundering at this time of year is very suspect for PPID.  Often fall laminitis if the first sign of PPID due to the "seasonal rise" which is a period of time when all horses have a natural rise in their ACTH, but PPID horses have an exaggerated and some times prolonged rise in their ACTH.
 
Diet:  The diet that is used to treat IR, and is also good for any horse is a balanced low sugar/starch forage based, low fat diet with minerals added to balance to the hay analysis, plus to replace what's lost when hay is cured, we add Vitamin E and ground flax seed.  We recommend less than 10% sugar + starch and 4% or less fat.  If you have not had your hay tested, you should put your boy on the emergency diet found on our website here:  http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-diet  This involves soaking your hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water to remove up to ~30% of the sugar content. Make sure you dump the water where he can't get to it. The hay soaking could prove to be critical to your boy until you know what the sugar/starch content of your hay is.  We like to send hay to Equianalytical to have it tested.  You want the #603, Trainer's package for $54.  That will give you the information you need to know 1) if your hay is safe to feed unsoaked, and 2) what minerals are deficient or in excess in your hay, so that you can balance those.  Once you have your hay analysis back, one of our balancing folks can help you to balance it, but in the meantime, start the emergency diet!  Good to hear that your horse is not getting any pasture or grain!  Other important things to eliminate now are apples, carrots, and other sugary treats, and red or brown salt blocks.  Here's a link to Equianalytical:  http://www.equi-analytical.com/  You can call them and ask them to send you some "forage kits" which includes the form, baggie and postage paid envelope for shipping the sample to them.  Lots of times, your local extension office or coop will have a hay probe that you can borrow to obtain your sample.  It may even be that another member lives close by you and can lend you a hay probe.
 
Trim:  The trim is so important, but often the last piece of the puzzle to fall into place.  A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot.  Once you join ECH8, you are welcome to post pictures of your horse's hooves to the PHOTOS section and have one of our hoof gurus take a look to see if you have a proper trim in place.  Here's a good place to learn how to take good hoof photos:  http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html
 
Exercise:  The best IR buster there is, but a laminitic horse should never be forced to move!  Boots and pads are often required to keep a laminitic horse comfy and support their feet while their new hooves grow in.  Soft rides are one choice, but if you have any boots we can give you some pad ideas.  Just let us know.  Once he starts to get better, you can start hand walking him in long straight lines with no tight turns.  And let him move about as he wants in boots and pads.
 
Ok, that gives you the "general" DDT/E philosophy.  One other thing I want to tell you is that we do not recommend bute after the first 3 or 4 days of laminitis.  For one thing, it can mask pain and allow your horse to move around more than he should, causing more damage, and also it interferes with the healing process. 
 
Margaret, there is a lot to learn in this group!  But it's a great place to gain the knowledge and get the support you need to treat you horse.  Read the files, our website, and old messages.  Ask any questions you have!  We are here to help you help  your horse!  Try to get your CH filled out on your horse asap so that we can give you more specific advice.  If you have any trouble joining ECH8 or filling out your CH just let us know.  Yahoo's "neo" form has been making things a bit challenging lately.  Also, please sign your name (thanks for that!), date of joining, and general location each time you post.  I see that this message that you wrote is piggybacked onto another message.  The best way to post a new message is to start a new subject and then you can label it whatever you are asking about.  Once you get your CH filled out, please add a link to it in your signature, similar to mine below.

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


 


Re: Broken Links - REMINDER please vote

Nancy C
 

Hi All

As many of you know our LINKS are not redirecting unless you take the old category word "pets" out of the URL.

I have submitted a request with Yahoo "uservoice" that yahoo members can vote on.  This request is now 26th  on the engineers "list of things to do", up from 221st.

IME, more votes move the request up the list and can eventually lead to a fix.  Takes a while but it can work. It will help to let them hear from us.  Thank you, thank you, to those who have already done so!

Please go here to cast your vote.

https://yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/209451-us-groups/suggestions/6466598-broken-links


Thanks for your help.


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.



WAS: Repost MIkado Update NOW: New Member Margaret

Nancy C
 

Hi Margret

Welcome to the group.  We need to know a little more about your horse so you can get the best possible help.

Is he IR or PPID/Cushings? How was he diagnosed?

The first thing that umps out is that bute does not act to relieve the pain in these situations.  Getting the trim right so she will stand without shifting, using pads and boots and getting the horse comfortable is the best remedy for pain.

Hang in there.  Tell us more.  Lots of folks have successfully walked this path before and will share their experiences to help your boy.  Please give us a idea of where you are located by dding your general location and date of joining the group in your signature.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 




---In EquineCushings@..., <TRoss24@...> wrote :

My horse is having founder issues. 
 


Re: Prascend and Spookiness?

Nancy C
 

Just want to support Hannah's observations, which is what this group is about.....reporting detailed observations.

Titrate on to the pergolide/Prascend. Support with Adaptogens if needed.
Test and balance the diet.

Seems the reminder is daily that many vets do not know how to successfully introduce pergolide.

Here's a link to adatogen files.  Let me know if it is not working.  It is right at this moment.

Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <hat19878@...> wrote :

Hello,
Sorry to butt in here like this. My horse has also become spooky on Prascend when he was first put on it. I had to take him off and build him up on it gradually to a dose he was 'less spooky' on and with no pergolide veil (thanks to the advice from this group). He had some really weird 'twitches' going on and a couple of seizures as well. Another thing, now his minerals are balanced and he is getting adequate magnesium etc, he seems to be coping better and there is less spookiness all round.


Re: Prascend and Spookiness?

Hannah T
 

Hello,
Sorry to butt in here like this. My horse has also become spooky on Prascend when he was first put on it. I had to take him off and build him up on it gradually to a dose he was 'less spooky' on and with no pergolide veil (thanks to the advice from this group). He had some really weird 'twitches' going on and a couple of seizures as well. Another thing, now his minerals are balanced and he is getting adequate magnesium etc, he seems to be coping better and there is less spookiness all round.
Hannah, Uk
Ziggy and Jaffa
1/8/14

Yahoo! Groups

 


Re: Repost MIkado Update and looking for advice

Lorna Cane
 

HI Jana,

> I created new files that includes the latest bloodwork: one is called feldermann02072014, subtitle thyroid numbers Mikado. Sorry, that is the german original, the important values are T3, T4 and free thyroxyn- which is freies thyroxin in German.
The other one is called Mikado Blut 08.14, and includes the ACTH, insulin and glucose numbers.

Don't kill me,but is there any way you can add this info to your case history,so that we have all the information together to compare?

I know it is beyond frustrating trying to overcome the problems that the NEO engineers are causing us. It's a good thing we've learned from our horses to be tenacious to a fault.

>So sorry, but I am not that computer genius, my apologies for making unnessecary trouble,

Not at all ,Jana! You can be sure that as you work through these issues there are others with the same ones who are learning from you.

Is there a link to current hoof photos?

Hang in.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.igive.com/welcome/warmwelcome.cfm?c=65676

 



 


Re: Prascend and Spookiness?

Chanda
 

Are ulcers a possible side effect of the Prevacox?  If so, some horses seem to become spooky if their gut is sore due to ulcers.  

Chanda

MT 9/04


Re: Repost MIkado Update and looking for advice

tross24
 

My horse is having founder issues. He is off pasture now getting some last years grass hay and water. No grain. He is wearing a Lilly pad on one foot and a concocted one on the other.
I gave him 2 g of bite this morning and will give 1 or 2 tonight. He is not on any meds. I would appreciate any help.
I called the vet she thought it was related to shoeing and sole issues but we pulled the shoes today. She also ordered pour in pads which have also been removed.
Tomorrow I'll be calling her again but presently he looks much better but still shifting a little. Comments please.

Thank you
Margaret
Sent from my iPhone


Re: Biting the flanks

beverly meyer
 

Thanks for the info on flank pain. The vet looked at her and did nothing
at all. Why can't these docs tell ME what to do instead of the other
way around?? Just venting....
I'll try to get him back. Thanks.


--
Beverly Meyer, MBA
Clinical and Holistic Nutritionist
www.ondietandhealth.com
Facebook: Beverly Meyer on Diet and Health
Radio: Primal Diet - Modern Health

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