Date   

Re: Chaste Tree

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 


Hi Laura,

You cannot compare the ACTH levels from Aug and Dec to use as a basis for whether the CTB is having any effect or not because the seasonal rise was in effect in Aug and is over in Dec. Most horses will have a lowering of their ACTH due solely to the time of year. More info on our website:


CTB has been found to affect some of the symptoms of PPID, like non-shedding and/or woolly coat, but does not control the ACTH levels long term (if at all) so while it appears the disease is being managed, the ACTH is still running unchecked and causing silent damage that eventually adds up.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Chaste Tree

Laura Cull
 

hi Lauren,

I use the product Cushing's Care from Herbs for Horses. it is a Canadian product so I realize not likely the one you are using. anyway, the main ingredient is chasteberry and I think they only add some Omega-3s to the mix. their product is pharmaceutical grade which is important to check regarding the one you are using because that will affect how much to give and the quality and therefore the efficacy. if you can find it get pharmaceutical grade.

they recommend 15 grams per day per horse. I've had my mare on it for 4 months but the company says not to expect complete results on efficacy for 6 months. I had my horses ACTH level checked in late August and I am going to have it rechecked again in late December. if I don't see any change then I will likely put her on pergolide. but the company says they have had great success with it over the 10+ years they have been manufacturing it.

good luck. I always think with horses the herbal route is worth trying.

Laura & Hope
Kelowna, BC, Canada
Oct 2014


Re: Can't upload CASE HISTORY -- can anyone help?

Kerry Isherwood
 

THANK YOU!  I successfully made a folder & uploaded my CH.... is it possible to add a second page to the comments so that I can make a timeline of the bloodwork and diet changes?  I couldn't fit anymore info in the space, but there's a few more vital tidbits I need to add.

Thanks again, so much...

Kerry


Re: Can't upload CASE HISTORY -- can anyone help?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Kerry,


I just checked and you do not seem to be a member of ECHistory8. I just sent you an invite to join, which should get around the Neo nonsense.


Yahoo demands that you join each group separately -  a real pain. Sometimes Neo just "loses" members and insists they rejoin. Yahoo insisted I wasn't a member of this group this morning - oooo-kkkkk...

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Cornell panel back, should I treat?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Kerry,


Send it to me at:  shilohmom @ outlook . com    removing the spaces.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team




Re: Cornell panel back, should I treat?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 


Hi Karen,

You do not soak the ODTB cubes to remove anything as they are already mineral balanced with the iron that is in them taken into account. You can soak/wet them to feed, just don't pour any water off.

The first rinsing step in r/s/r is for removing surface iron on beet pulp, then soaking to leach out sugar, then final rinse to get rid of the sugars that were soaked out and clinging to the BP. If you soak without rinsing first you may drive surface iron into the beet pulp.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team




Re: Can't upload CASE HISTORY -- can anyone help?

lauramollrich
 

I keep having the same problem.  When I post then add my address to the bottom of it, all I keep getting is the same reply you do, or "Can't Access."  I have typed my post 3 times now!  Getting so frustrated with this neo system.

Laura in CA
1/2012


KSU Results?

lauramollrich
 

I just received results from KSU.  Some levels are up, some are down.  Can someone please take a look and tell me what this means.  Should I do anything different regarding P's diet?  Beet pulp has a lot or iron so should I be feeding him something else?  Also, his CBC indicates his calcium is low.  He hasn't been getting his oats with bp all of the time due to our constant heat waves and not being able to work him hard enough.  I would appreciate anyone's help.


Thanks!

Laura in CA

1/2012

Yahoo! Groups




Can't upload CASE HISTORY -- can anyone help?

Kerry Isherwood
 

Im a new member trying to upload my CH.  When I go to EChistory8, I am told "Oops!  You need to be a member"

What does that mean?  I've filled out and saved my CH as a .pdf but can't get past that point.

Can anyone help?


Kerry, NY, Sept 14


Re: making horse 'treat'

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Erin,

What is the pergolide dose being given to Babe ?
I don't know how many mgs are in the  scoop mentioned in her CH. Or I missed it.

Is it necessary for her to  get the herbs?Are you finding they help her ?

Have you tried syringing in the minerals/herbs?

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc











making horse 'treat'

chf1752@...
 

I just perused the Files, and I wasn't able to find an answer. Searching the group didn't turn up anything either.


Does anyone have a recipe for an IR safe horse "treat"? Some kind of base I can mix with my herbs and minerals and dry or bake into a 'treat'. 


I'm looking for a dry way to get my balanced mineral mix and herbs into my pony. She simply does not like wet or soaked feed, and misting the carrier doesn't work too well. Please don't tell me I haven't tried hard enough. I've worked very hard on this over almost 4 years. The fact is, this mare simply likes dry food better.


I've thought about finding a feed mill to make a custom pelletized feed. The only problem is that I really need very, very little.


Erin

2014

ME

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Bella/




Re: Cornell panel back, should I treat?

Kerry Isherwood
 

OK, not to be a drama queen, but yahoogroups just erased my message before I could send it and I'm at my &$^#(@ breaking point.  Basically it said, I am unable to get my CH posted.  I can't even figure out how to attach it here.  It is a PDF file.  What can I do to get it posted?  I also need to add more to the "comments" section b/c theres a few things I need to add still. 

Please help, I'm seriously at my wit's end....

Kerry


Re: Cornell panel back, should I treat?

Kerry Isherwood
 

I cannot figure out how to post my CH, and I'm at my breaking point.  Can I send it to someone for salvaging?  It is far from complete but its a start. 

Kerry


Re: Cornell panel back, should I treat?

kansteen5545@...
 

Hi Lavinia -
Quick question - I was reading what you said about beet pulp and it being high in iron and needing to be soaked to get rid of it. What does this mean for the the Timothy Balance Cubes? Do they need to be soaked to get rid of the iron also?
Karen
Scarborough,ME
May 2014

---- "shilohmom@outlook.com [EquineCushings]" >

Although it is a good source of digestible fiber, beet pulp has 1.5 times the calories of hay, is high in calcium and iron. Need to rinse/soak/rinse it before feeding to wash off iron, remove possibly excess sugars. We only recommend using small amounts (under 1lb daily) as a carrier for supplements. More than that needs to be mineral balanced correctly.













Re: Cornell panel back, should I treat?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Kerry,


Thanks for the additional info. Gotcha on the 'starvation diet" definition. If you continue to have trouble with getting the case history posted just send it to me and I'll get it up for you.


Here are some things that popped out at me :


Agree these are definitely not training issues.


It is likely you have many mineral imbalances, deficiencies with your base diet. This will become quite glaringly obvious in a horse who is working hard, as your mare does. Supplying extra energy does not necessarily mean adding large amounts of feed. Each time Pinky works hard, you add high protein/calcium/starch feeds to her ration. She crashes, you remove the extras, she recovers, cycle repeats. In an IR horse, just adding extra calories in forms that the horse cannot access only makes the situation worse as she gets overloaded with inaccessible energy forms while her tissues are starving for fuel. For example, when your car runs low on gas you need to add more gas. If you fill the tank with grape juice it won't go anywhere. Timing of adding the extra energy sources is also important.


There is likely a dehydration component involved unless Pinky is receiving 2-4ox iodized salt for maintenance and considerably more when working. It sounds as if your trainer has noticed something regarding this aspect.


General fat supplements (oils) have an inverted omega 3 to omega 6 profile, with the 6's dominating. Both are essential fatty acids, which means they are necessary for life but cannot be manufactured internally so must be ingested. Omega 6's are abundant in the diet and need no supplementing. They feed the pro-inflammatory arm of the immune system, which is already over-active in IR. Omega 3's are more fragile and deficient in a diet that doesn't contain large amounts of pasture. They are needed for the immune system to function correctly. Ground flax is a simple way to replace these key FA's in the diet, using only 2-4oz per day.


Vit E is deficient in diets that don't have grass. It is a fat soluble vitamin, which means it needs to be in contact with fat in order to be absorbed properly. This is why we recommend using human gelcaps with oil in them as the most efficient and cost effective way to supplement. Hard working horses need even more than the general 1000iu per 500lbs bodyweight for health.


Soaking hay for more than an hour, unless you change the water, won't result in more sugars being soaked out as once the water reaches homeostasis it can't leach any more sugar out. Starch cannot be soaked out at all and converts to 1005 glucose while the ESC only converts 50% to glucose. Legume hays generally are high starch, although low ESC, so can be a problem.


What multi-vitamin are you using? Is it a mineral-vit or just vit? Most mineral supplements contain iron - which no adult horse needs - but not enough of what is needed. A generic supplement cannot balance your diet because it has no way of knowing exactly what is/isn't in your diet already.


Sorry, I'm not familiar with the term "spilling glucose"?


That you saw an improvement (how exactly?) when she was on doxy certainly points to an infection of some type. Doxy also has a mild anti-inflammatory effect as well so that could also have played a role. If she still has any of the symptoms that prompted you to think Lyme and treat, then getting a Lyme Multiplex (if in the budget) is a good idea. Lyme can be extremely persistent and oral doxy does not always get the job done.


With her IR, glucosamine and MSM are not recommended so the Cosequin ASU wouldn't be a good choice. Glucosamine may worsen IR and MSM interferes with selenium and copper absorption. In an unbalanced diet, these issues could be even more problematic.


Although it is a good source of digestible fiber, beet pulp has 1.5 times the calories of hay, is high in calcium and iron. Need to rinse/soak/rinse it before feeding to wash off iron, remove possibly excess sugars. We only recommend using small amounts (under 1lb daily) as a carrier for supplements. More than that needs to be mineral balanced correctly.


Every time Pinky's insulin spikes she shows classic signs of subclinical laminitis - lethargy, stiffness and stumbling can be compensatory for soreness in the feet that doesn't show up overtly as pounding pulses and reactions to hoof testers. The hoof tenderness is also laminitis. Are there any hoof rings at any time? An insulin in the 60's is extremely IR - a non-IR, working horse should have one below 10.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team







Re: Getting a diagnosis

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Gina,


At 8yo Whizzy is young for PPID to be the driving force, although not impossible. IR can be an issue at virtually any age. PPID and IR are two different issues that have some symptoms that overlap. When you can get the case history up (send it to one of us if Neo is causing you too much grief) adding in copies of all the blood work/tests you've had done on Whizzy to date would be helpful.


FWIW, the auto soakers are a waste of money IMHO. Just put the hay in a clean muck bucket, fill the bucket with water and put a weight on top of it, leave for an hour. If you want to have the water fill automatically, you can get a garden watering timer at the hardware store and attach it to your faucet. Inexpensive but effective. Many more ideas on out sister site ECHorsekeeping:


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHorsekeeping/info


Most quality hays have plenty of protein. By quality I mean clean, weed-free, grass hays. Alfalfa has excessive amounts of protein and sky-high calcium plus is usually high starch, which converts 100% to glucose when digested. However, only way to know for certain is to test. I know that is a difficult thing right now.


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI

EC Support Team



Re: 2 crippled ponies.Please help.

Mandy Woods
 

Oh that’s right!  Formula 4 Feet had it too........it is said that since you feed so little of the daily dewormer  that its safe but each horse is different.   Moxidectin with Prazquantel  or Ivermectin with Prazquantel are used for bots/tapes (from her course).   IF your ponies are not grazing they should not be reinfesting themselves.   What you could do is take Dr. Kellons’ deworming course!   I did not find a file in the ECIR Table of Contents.   Her courses are at www.drkellon.com   The dewormer course is a short course.
 
Mandy in VA
 


Re: Getting a diagnosis

Nancy C
 

Thanks, Deb. 

The Picky Eater's checklist isalso a good place to go for ideas on transitioning to new tastes.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/8%20Pulling%20it%20Together/

 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <hawkhilldeb@...> wrote :


Just try to go with what the group recommends and if you have a problem
with one, ask for help because they always seem to know a "work-around".

Deb and Cory in NC
July 2012
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Deb%20Funderburk%20in%20NC/
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory5/photos/albums/1275105710


Re: Cornell panel back, should I treat?

Kerry Isherwood
 

Lisa,

Thanks so much for your input. All of the responses from the group are incredibly helpful! I havent ever obtained rads bc, tbh, my mare has never been truly unsound (in an orthopedic sense). Stiff & "not right"--yes, when her insulin spikes, but has always hoof tested perfectly fine. She won horse trials this year while both barefoot (April) and shod (July), and was wonderfully consistent until August. When she is barefoot I trim her (as I have for many years) but she is shod professionally by an excellent farrier who is very interested in her metabolic issues and entertains my desire to experiment with plastic shoes (Eponas & Ground Controls are what my mare likes best). When we pull shoes each fall she easily converts to barefoot w/o any tenderness. All that being said, this is an exceptionally stoic mare who absolutely loves to jump, so her enthusiasm for her job of running cross country & for pleasing for rider might mask subclinical changes, as we do occ find a tint of old blood in her white line...

At present, she's due for a trim, and Ill ask my farrier to do it (thus removing my naivete from the equation) and get a full set of rads as per your suggestion. (Please note that my mare has big beautiful feet and she's the only horse I would ever dare to lay a rasp to bc of her true lack of pathology. With her its always been just smoothing out any chips and re-establishing a bit of a "mustang roll". If ever anything looked funky, i'd have my farrier evaluate)

Thank you again for your post. It is so comforting to have found such a helpful support group!!

Kerry


Re: Using blood tests to get a full mineral status

Nancy C
 

Hi Stine

You are right, Stine.  There are a couple of supplement vendors though who are using the blood testing approach.

Except for Selenium and Vitamin E blood work is a poor indicator of body status.  Even serum iron is not an indicator of iron stores in the body, hence the need for the KSU panel. The body works really hard to maintain and equilibrium and will "borrow" to maintain that.  So for example with inadequate salt, which we have been talking about a lot recently, The body will borrow salt for other areas in order to maintain the right  balance. Test will show salt in the blood is okay, but it is not adequate in the diet to maintain a work load for example.


Try this link to a couple of good posts from Patti and Dr Kellon on why testing hay is better overall than blood or hair analysis.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Blood%20Testing%20for%20IR%20%26%20Cushings%20Disease/

Scroll down to
The Value of Blood, Hair and Hays testing

 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/equine-cushing-s-and-insulin-resistance-group-inc

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <the.stine@...> wrote :

Is it possible to get a full mineral status for your horse by drawing blood? I know iron would have to be sent to KSU - are there other minerals that would be hard to get analysed? 




Stine, Norway, april 2013
 
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/echistory7/files/Mahjiino/ 


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