Date   

Re: ACTH Level & Pergolide Dosage & Tasty additives

hinecedark@...
 

Hi Teri,

Could you share please at what TSC store in IN you are buying the Stabul 1? I have been working with the Asst Mngr at my local TSC for two months, he has called Randy when I was there, etc., but no product in the store yet. I am eager to try it for my uber picky gelding, if it's a distance I can manage in a day.

Thank you,

Melinda

IN  2010


Re: Is Naproxen appropriate for laminitis pain relief?

Betty Ann
 

Argh...I had a response nearly completed and neo ate it for some reason...I can't spend that time and energy again....Dr. Kellon's response is appropriate for the situation my horses and I are in.

I wish to respectfully and sincerely submit that not all animals and their owners live in serviced areas and sometimes the services provided - when they are available - leave a lot to be desired. These horses have been physically attended by a licensed veterinarian, diagnosed and prescribed treatment. Though I live in a different country I expect the regulatory guidelines concerning veterinary practice are similar.

Veterinary involvement with these 2 horses has included:
-Blood work was drawn near the end of September, no communication of any sort has been received from the vet to date other than the invoice that was drawn up and paid at the time of the visit. ($685.00 included ultrasound on a bowed tendon.)
-Blood work was drawn in mid-May of same year, no invoice has been received to date; while the lab reports were forwarded, no interpretation nor guidance was communicated.
-The prescription ran out at the beginning of the fall ACTH rise. The horses and I were left high and dry. It took repeated attempts to contact by the both the pharmacy and myself to get a new order established. 
-With two horses on Pergolide capsules for well over a year, only one time has an amount due been indicated. Numerous months have elapsed since.
-X-rays were done as well at the time of initial blood draws for diagnosis. No interpretation or report was ever provided. The report fee was refunded upon request sent months later.
Sometimes information and answers to questions are not always where one would expect to find them - at the first and appropriate source from which to seek help...hence my question here. In light of the new information provided the Naproxen will not be administered. There is no large animal vet present locally at this time...

Sincerely,
Betty Ann
ON CAN
Mar 08


---In EquineCushings@..., <nrvet@...> wrote :

Dear Equine Cushing’s List,
 
I have monitored this list for sometime and have a query – Is it legal in your state for unlicensed veterinarians or lay persons to diagnose and prescribe treatment?
 
While I realize not every animal owner opts to form and keep a valid Veterinary Client Patient Relationship, in many if not all states diagnosis and treatment falls under the scope of the respective state’s Veterinary Practice Act.  


Re: ACTH Level & Pergolide Dosage & Tasty additives

Stephanie Stout
 

@Lavinia,
Thanks for commenting and sharing your horse's level. That makes me feel better that I'm not only one with the a horse over 1,000. How often did you increase your Pergolide in the first month? How did you go about deciding how much to increase? Did your horse ever had/have the puffiness above the eyes? If so, how long did it take for that to come down? Did it come down when you increased the Pergolide?

I have King's case history on my computer filled out. I have to try to see if I can upload it, and he also got new updated xrays today so I will see if I can upload those also.

@Teri, Thanks for sharing that Stormy is picky too! I just downloaded the picky eater file and am going to try some peppermint herbal tea I have. I also think my guy isn't eating when his level is high - I'm upping his Pergolide dosage slowly(my vet doesn't think he needs it, but I don't see how 1mg is going to lower his levels therefore stopping the laminitis).

Thanks so much!
Stephanie 




ACTH LEVELS HAVE DECREASED

Jane Hewitt
 

Hi Nancy:
I'll be increasing his pergolide to 6.5mg for one week starting on 10/28 and then increasing to 7mg for two weeks and retest his ACTH. He still has eye gunk and sheath smegma but those have been ongoing since 2005 (he is allergic to everything under the sun). No white line separation, rings, etc. . . he was just trimmed this past Wednesday and is done faithfully every 4 weeks. Yes; I've been doing a lot of reading this week and will carefully monitor whether he might be able to be dropped once the seasonal rise is over. Thanks for mentioning the pergolide 101 document I've read that as well.
Thank you so much for your input, I will keep the group updated!
Thanks,
Jane Hewitt


Re: ACTH LEVELS HAVE DECREASED

Nancy C
 

Hi Jane

Great news. Nice report about Lad.  So glad he is still kicking up his heels. 

We've known from years of members testing, that ACTH is starting to come down now. Even so he is still elevated above the Liphook "normal" levels. Does he need more pergolide?  If he were here I would be keeping an eye out for any symptoms, including but not limited to weight (which you've said is great), energy (ditto!), eye gunk and sheath smegma and any changes in hoof comfort, white line separation, rings, etc....If there was any suspected problem I would work with my vet to raise the dose as you have suggested.

Whether he can be lowered after seasonal rise is really an  individual thing.  He's had a big jump this year so I would be very careful there.  The pergolide 101 doc is a great reminder.

http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/cushing-s-disease/pergolide

We're in the process of loading a new one with fixed links.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <jhewitt7408@...> wrote :



I'm happy to report that from 9/19/14 to 10/22/14 his ACTH levels have gone from 332 back down to 156! I know this is still high but it's a dramatic drop from last month even with the seasonal rise.

He has had no laminitis/founder episodes while Ive followed the advice of this group, he was diagnosed with Cushing's back in 2005 and I have followed the strict recommendations of this group since then. I want to also share that Lad is a 33 years old SB/TB gelding and has been able to keep his weight on and still kick up his heels even though he is on a steady diet of OD soaked Timothy balanced hay cubes and supplements per Dr. Kellon.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory8/files/Lad and Jane/Revised Case History for Lad/Lad New Case History 082014.doc/


WAS: Naproxen appropriate NOW: Working with your vet.

Nancy C
 

Dear Doctor Gockowski~

And to new members struggling with this issue ~

Thank you for your input, Dr Gockowski.  I see you were on the State Board in Colorado.

You have also been here since 2003. Interesting that this is your first post. Hope you have had the time to actually follow cases here. You would have seen, in the majority, members are working closely with their local vets, and many vets (including my own) depend on experiences from the 1000s of cases the group has followed long term over 14 years of existence.

I would invite you to make use of the extensive resources here:

1. ecirhorse.org website

2. Proceedings from the 2013 NO Laminitis! Conference on IVIS.

http://www.ivis.org/proceedings/ecir/toc.asp

3. Reports from the field in the Prascend Experiences folder.  If you can give me a couple of days, I have  a half dozen more to upload. There are some 20 there now.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/%201%20A%20a%20Prascend%20Experiences/

4. 1000s of case histories in our 8 yahoo “filing cabinets”
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory1/files

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory2/files

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory3/files

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory4/files

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory5/files

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory6/files

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory7/files

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory8/files

About PRASCEND:  Totally agree that Prascend and the FDA should be contacted when the drug is not working properly.  We remind members to do so on a bi-monthly basis. In their own studies to obtain FDA approval, BI was unable to control some 30% of patients. 

5. Here’s a link to our reminder on how to report, in case you missed it.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/189831

6. The FDA encourages owners to report adverse events directly to them if that is their preference.  Owners may also contact the technical services vet at the manufacturer.  FDA does not specifically suggest notifying the treating veterinarian.

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/SafetyHealth/ReportaProblem/ucm055305.htm

 


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 




---In EquineCushings@..., <nrvet@...> wrote :

Dear Equine Cushing’s List,
 
I have monitored this list for sometime and have a query
 


Re: Giving Pergolide before blood draw?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Beverly,


I would give the pergolide as you want to know whether it is doing the job on her ACTH well or not.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team



Re: Need help administering meds

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Beverly,


I have an IR/PPID gelding here that is losing teeth, quidding hay, can't crunch a carrot or grape and will spit the pill out if given alone. Are you feeding the ODTB wetted or dry? You can take a small handful of damp/wet cubes, sprinkle the contents of the capsule on that and feed it first. Once that is gone then feed the rest of her meal. That way you know the pergolide was eaten.

Can you get Stabul 1? You could use that as a flavoring for her ODTB cubes. You can also use a handful of it alone to get the perg down.

Have you checked the Picky Eaters Checklist for ideas? Look in file #8 Pulling it Together:


Would you please add your general location to your signature as that helps us when making suggestions for sourcing products for you. Appreciate your help with this.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: ACTH Level & Pergolide Dosage & Tasty additives

Teri
 


Hi Stephanie,

 Which then brings me to my next topic -  anything to add to his beet pulp that will make it a little tastier that he can have?? He is beyond picky!


My pony, Stormy is very, very picky.  I tried everything on the picky eater list with no luck.  And don't even think about giving her anything wet...like beet pulp or wet hay cubes.  But, she does like Stabul 1, if you can get it in your area.  Randy from NuZu feeds will send samples for you to try.   (Also,she really likes Diamond V XP Yeast.  I add about 1/4 C. to her Stabul 1.)  The thing with Stormy is that she even refuses the Stabul 1 if her ACTH is only slightly elevated.  Once her ACTH is solidly in the mid range of normal, she starts eating again.  So that MIGHT be something else to consider.  It's possible that when you get his ACTH down, he could start eating better.  There are so many variables to this disease and it seems no two horses/ponies are the same.   I definitely defer to the advice from the experts on the list.    This is just my experience with my little diva.  :-)


Welcome to the list!   You are in the right place to get help for your boy!   


Teri and Stormy 

Indy 2012






Re: Is Naproxen appropriate for laminitis pain relief?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I would venture to say that every owner on this group has an existing veterinarian-client-patient relationship.  That is an essential first step for the first "D" of our DDT - diagnosis, including laboratory work for initial diagnosis and monitoring.

This group, and many other similar ones such as:

Yahoo! Groups

 

exists to provide support and information, from literature as well as the individual and collective experiences of thousands of owners and caretakers over more than a decade.


Providing historical information on the use of naproxen in horses, originally approved by the FDA in oral form under NADA 96-674, is not prescribing any more than cancer patients sharing details of their treatment and outcomes is prescribing:


Yahoo! Groups

 

As for the legality of compounding drugs such as pergolide, that is an issue for the courts to decide.  The last two federal courts to hear cases on this issue have ruled against the FDA, including one in ultra conservative Texas.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001




Giving Pergolide before blood draw?

beverly meyer
 

The vet comes at 9:30 Monday.  I will get up early to feed her so she has 3 hours before blood, right? (although it takes her 3 hours to eat, with no teeth). 

Do I give Pergolide with breakfast or wait until mid-day feeding?

Thanks,

Beverly 5/14


Re: Is Naproxen appropriate for laminitis pain relief?

Delores Gockowski
 

Dear Equine Cushing’s List,
 
I have monitored this list for sometime and have a query – Is it legal in your state for unlicensed veterinarians or lay persons to diagnose and prescribe treatment?
 
While I realize not every animal owner opts to form and keep a valid Veterinary Client Patient Relationship, in many if not all states diagnosis and treatment falls under the scope of the respective state’s Veterinary Practice Act.  Guidance can be found here: https://www.avma.org/public/PetCare/Pages/VCPR-FAQs.aspx
In general, a veterinarian must be licensed in a state to provide care for animals in that state, or meet qualifications to practice without a license for a specific period or work with a licensed veterinarian for a specific period.
 
A licensed veterinarian is not able to give a diagnosis without an examination.  Many animal owners do not know this.
Without an examination, treatment including medication can’t be prescribed.  Many animal owners do not know this.
There are many, many very qualified licensed veterinarians that can help your horses including those with PPID/IR, laminitis, pain mitigation, nutrition and much, much more.  Many animal owners should know this.
 
With frequent posts of animals in pain and not responding to treatment, I would think the first contact a horse owner would make would be their local veterinarian, who has knowledge of the examination findings, diagnosis, current treatment and best options for that horse and can legally prescribe treatment.
This post’s subject is seeking advice to use a human NSAID off label in horses for pain relief.  This falls under the Animal Medicinal Drug Use Act (AMDUCA) - Extra Label Drug Use (ELDU), which can only be provided by a licensed veterinarian.  Guidance for licensed veterinarians can be found here: https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/Reference/Pages/AMDUCA.aspx 
 
Prascend is the only legal drug for PPID.  
Compounded pergolide is no longer prescribed as we value the research, quality control and uniformity, efficacy, cost, and technical support of Prascend. 
If a horse owner feels Prascend is not effective, then please contact your local veterinarian who will contact Prascend’s manufacturer’s technical support veterinarians.
Disclaimer: I have no interest in Boehringer-Ingelheim, the manufacturer of Prascend.  I prescribe Prascend for my client’s horses and and utilize Boehringer-Ingelheim’s extensive technical support resources for my client’s horses.
 
Regards,
Dr. Delores Gockowski
NORTH RIDGE VETERINARY SVC, LLC
90590 North Ridge
Windemere, MN 55783
C PH: 218-380-8949
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication constitutes an electronic communication within the meaning of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC 2510, and its disclosure is strictly limited to the recipient intended by the sender of this message. This communication and any files transmitted with it may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient, including confidential client communications and/or work product. Receipt by anyone other than the intended recipient is not intended to and does not constitute a loss of the confidential or privileged nature of the communications. Any review or distribution by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient you must not read, use, copy, retransmit or disseminate this communication and delete all copies of this communication.


Re: Farrier in Colorado

Lorna Cane
 


Hi Christine,

This is a frustrating journey. Just ask many of us who have been on the same road you are on now.
I hope you will reread Linda's recent post,slowly and objectively.
But I just wanted to mention a couple of things wrt what you have said here.

> I can do more damage than someone who is trained in the field.  

I know from experience, sadly, that this is not necessarily true, as counter-intuitive as it sounds.

>  It seems I have offended someone because now I am being told the offer that was made for help is no longer available.

Please, again, reread what Linda said.
I haven't talked to Linda about this,but  I don't see that the offers for help are no longer available, from her post.
I do see that she would like to have more information from you, in order to be able to help you even better.

The devil is in the details, as we have all learned, and I know you know that, too.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc




Re: Farrier in Colorado

gypsylassie
 




---In EquineCushings@..., <PapBallou@...> wrote :

No one has been offended and no one is withholding help from you.....
If you have questions or concerns about the markups that are being done for you by the people who are working with you, or just want feedback on what they propose, we'll help.  But since we're not there, and you have plainly stated markups are being done for you already, we're not going to duplicate initial efforts.

Hi Christine,
I haven't been following all the conversations the way I used to, husband with continuing cardio/vascular complications after a heart attack in May, coupled with a new puppy, and 4 different loads of hay that need each slice sorted thru for clover, thistles, etc, along with daily chores, have kept me pretty busy.  But I just wanted to encourage you to stay with the group and continue to ask for help.  Reading Linda's posts about her journey with casting, looking at scads of other peoples' mark ups and advice and guidance, and reading suggested links about thin soles and "sinking", all helped me with my boys.  I haven't learned to post pics  yet, but by following the suggestions here I was able to get my beloved Chappie sound and we're back to riding.  For a variety of reasons, my boys can't wear the boots and there's no one here that could help with casts, but by having my farrier follow Linda's and my vet's trimming advice, once the year of being barefoot to grow out the hoof was up, the boys got shoes with pads and filler to engage the entire hoof.  Shoes are probably not the best solution for many of the recovering horses here, but they worked for my boys, and even tho there was some disagreement with my choice, it was understood for my situation.  We're surrounded by gravel roads, so to go anywhere, their feet need some protection, but I wouldn't use the shoes without the filler and pads, and they're barefoot from Nov-May.

Sometimes reading a reply, where you can't hear the inflection in a person's voice, can lead to a misunderstanding. But I do know they are dedicated to helping us with our horses.

Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL.2011


Re: Farrier in Colorado

PapBallou@...
 




I don't agree with boots as the only option, anymore than I agree clogs are the only option, there are many options out there and I am not closed to any of them.  I am doing my research and hoped this group would help me with that.  I do not feel that trimming myself is a better option to a good farrier. I can do more damage than someone who is trained in the field.  Without a doubt my farriers have been a large part of my problem, which is why I asked for help. 

Christine -

Boots/pads are not the only option.  There are many options that haven't been discussed since you've stated that clogs are what you and the vet agree on.

No one has been offended and no one is withholding help from you.  However, in your post, you mention that three others are doing markups for you, the vet and two farriers.  If they are there working with you and your horse, and doing the same thing, then they are the reasonable choice to start with.

Markups are extremely helpful, and we do them all the time, and more than what many people on the list realize.  But they take time.  And the narrative that goes with them takes time. 

We don't do markups to 'teach people how to trim', but for guidance for the people who are actually working on the horses.  Occasionally someone has to take the bull by the horns and get the trim done themselves.

If you have questions or concerns about the markups that are being done for you by the people who are working with you, or just want feedback on what they propose, we'll help.  But since we're not there, and you have plainly stated markups are being done for you already, we're not going to duplicate initial efforts.

It would be no different than if you asked for help in balancing your hay, and then also said you had someone locally working on that as well.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: Farrier in Colorado

Christine shelley
 

Thank you for the input.  I had decided before this post to never use the same 3 farriers again.  That was never an option, I was looking for a new farrier which is why I posted with the question I did.  I have two very good options now, neither have touched my horse before and both are vets and farriers.  I have decided to go with someone who is very well known.  I have seen a number of people who won't put names on here and I am beginning so see why, so I won't at this point.  My experience with farriers is not good and my trust is gone as a result.  Again, that is why I asked for help.

My horse has been on Jiagulan and AAKG for a couple of months now and while they have helped, they can't eliminate bad mechanics.  My horse has bad mechanics so we have seen limited improvement from them.  But I believe in the herbs and will continue them without fail.  

I don't agree with boots as the only option, anymore than I agree clogs are the only option, there are many options out there and I am not closed to any of them.  I am doing my research and hoped this group would help me with that.  I do not feel that trimming myself is a better option to a good farrier. I can do more damage than someone who is trained in the field.  Without a doubt my farriers have been a large part of my problem, which is why I asked for help.  

I thought the point of this group was to educate people.  So I asked for help, so that I had enough information to make sure I get the best trim and shoe option for my horse and to have the confidence that I  have a good farrier and vet.

Please tell me if I am completely off base in my understanding of the purpose of the group.  It seems I have offended someone because now I am being told the offer that was made for help is no longer available.

Christine
Colorado
2014


Supplements for Teddy

JMillwood5@...
 

Teddy is 28 yo Morgan/Quarter gelding with Cushings for several years, now on 3 mg Pergolide/day.   Pasture access, quids his bermuda hay.    I feed him 2 (coffee cans) alfalfa pellets, 2 of Purina Well-Solve L/S, and 2 of Timothy or Orchard Grass pellets.    I have only recently been able to get Triple Crown L/S and am slowly adding that to see how he likes it.

He is supplemented with Flex-N-Action (by Farrier's Magic), Quiessence, and Integri-Hoof (Kauffman).     I have been adding 2 oz of coconut oil the last month or so, which he likes.

However, his coat is deteriorating----short on top line, more ribs showing and I'm worrying about him going into winter.   He has some arthritis and old ringbone on the front end.   He is prone to diarhea in winter when no grass available.    I'm convince there is some plant that he eats that stops it in summer.    His rump fat pad seems to have flattened out some on the Quiessence.    It is the only fat pad he has.    His spirits are good when his arthritis is not bothering him.    He eats up this amount of food, but won't eat much more.     Teeth floated and hooves done regularly.    I will worm him after freeze here in Arkansas, but both horses have had negative fecals for some time and do not leave my property.

Question:    What are options for different supplements?     Uckele has  Equi-Omega 4:1, Equi-Base Senior, or Senior Hoof and Joint.     He needs adequate Magnesium, Glucosomine and MSM, Biotin, Omegas and vitamins E and C?    Does Smart Pak or HorseTech have something that would fill more of my needs without buying 3-4 supplements?

Josey Humbert-Sabo
Fayetteville, Arkansas
Teddy - 28 yo Morgan/Quarter Gelding.


Josey Humbert-Sabo


Re: Farrier in Colorado

PapBallou@...
 



Lavinia, I would love to have a mark up thank you!  I know my vet will do one as well.  Also both farrier's we have in mind are also vets, so they will do their own.  I would love to have something to go to the farrier with to be able to make sure this doesn't continue. More information is always better than less in my opinion. 


Christine -

You have a number of people who are 'boots on the ground there' doing markups for you.  Lavinia and I are going to hold back for now.  Your vet can digitally do them for you, and that is part of what you are paying for.  Doesn't mean that our realignment philosophy is the same as hers, but start there.  Would love to have you post what she sees as issues and her recommendations. 

The plan I agreed with my vet on was clogs for a variety of reasons.  One, they are going to be put on with essentially casting material, no nails or screws so easier on his feet.  Two we are getting weather and keeping boots on in our clay soil just doesn't work and causes a host for thrush. 3 she explained a lot about the blood flow and what the clog does to improve the blood flow and I am convinced that is why he keeps getting laminitis. 


I understand your first two reasons for using something attached to the foot other than a boot/pad combo.  I"m not certain that your horse has had a trim that a clog should even be considered to be put on at this point.  If the current farrier has done the trim/work for the past year or so, IMO, it is time to find someone else.  We really try hard to encourage list members to work with their long time 'team' but sometimes the issues are such that the things that need to be addressed with the trim need a fresher point of view.


And last, they saved him the first two bouts, and he made a quick recover on those two.   To me that give me more evidence that blood flow is the issue.  Those two were cold induced, everything I have read from Dr Kellon says cold induced is due to blood flow.  

Yes, decreased blood flow is one of the responses to cold, but it is also due to underlying damage to the foot that has a circulation problem to begin with.  There are several nutraceuticals such as ALCAR, jiaogulan, AAKG, siberian ginseng, ashwagandha that can play a big role in encouraging circulation from 'the inside' that mechanical devices simply can't do.  Will help you there as soon as you/we have gotten the trim figured out.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004 





Re: Is Naproxen appropriate for laminitis pain relief?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 


Hi Betty Ann,

Yes, you can just increase the perg dose from Aug-Nov then titrate back to the non-seasonal dose in Dec. Exactly when to raise/lower is going to depend on how your horse reacts to the seasonal rise. You want to stay ahead of the curve rather than be chasing it. Whether this will work or not is going to depend on your horse. One of my guys is on 3mg perg from mi-Dec to mid-Aug. Goes up to 4mg for the seasonal period. Has worked well for him for several years now.

Naproxen is in the same class of drugs as Banamine. It is a bit longer acting. If there are abscesses brewing all NSAIDs will interfere with the maturation and resolution. If he needs some extra help to get some rest for a few days then using NSAIDS judiciously is fine. Here is a link to a post by Dr. Kello on benefits vs risks:



Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: ACTH Level & Pergolide Dosage & Tasty additives

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Stephanie,


One of my boys had an ACTH of 1088 the first time he was tested in Aug. He went from 0 to 6mg in approx. a month's time. ACTH was retested and was at 84 in Sept so because the rise was still in full swing he was upped to 9mg to compensate for further rising and get it even lower. We achieved 46pg/ml the next round of testing, which was acceptable for him.


 There are others here that have also had numbers in the 1000+ category so you are not alone. It is highly unlikely that 1mg of pergolide, in a large boy, during the seasonal rise period will bring the ACTH down into the normal ranges but it is possible. How a horse reacts to the meds is a very individual thing. The only way to know is to test about 2 weeks after he has been on the med to see where you stand. Getting the ACTH under good control is vital to managing the disease process over time as even with good control it is a progressive condition. The longer the ACTH stays uncontrolled the harder it becomes to get it controlled.


Have you had a chance to get King's case history done? I see that you have a file but it's empty. Having all that info will help us help you better.


Look in file #8 Pulling it Together. Check the folders Introducing New Feeds and Supplements and the Picky Eaters Checklist for ideas on how to get your boy to accept his changed rations:


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/8%20Pulling%20it%20Together/


Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut

Jan 05, RI
EC Support team




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