Date   

wetting flax seed - a bad idea?

beverly meyer
 

I understand soaking flax seed releases cyanide.

Is it ok to add to ODTB during half hour soaking to rehydrate, or should I add at serving time?

And then, it will be wet for the several hours it takes Ginger to eat.  Is this safe?

Is 2 ounces about right for a 450 pound pony, not insulin controlled?  The files vary in amount to feed. 

Thank you!

Beverly 6/14

Beverly Texas

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Beverly%20Texas/



Re: WAS: Monty's lab results, NOW Re-testing ACTH

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 


Hi Suzanne.

If my horse, I would just do the ACTH at this point as you want to check whether your dose of pergolide (Prascend) is controlling the PPID well enough.

Lavinia, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team






Re: WAS: Monty's lab results, NOW Re-testing ACTH

Suzanne Mansolilli
 







Oops!  Sorry, i just submitted this post without the new title. Her it is with the new subject, and hopefully worded a little more clearly! 

Suzanne 




---In EquineCushings@..., <suzannemansolilli@...> wrote :

Hi, 

My horse was diagnosed PPID with ACTH at 461. My vet recommended 1mg Prascend, group moderators recommended increasing to 2 mg, which he has now been at for 3 weeks, and re-testing, which I am now ready to do.  My question is do I just re-test the ACTH?  Or do I get the bundled ACTH/insulin/Leptin test plus a glucose test? So do I repeat them all or just re-test ACTH?

Thanks

Suzanne & Monty
Western Colorado--July 2014


Re: Monty's lab results

Suzanne Mansolilli
 




---In EquineCushings@..., <suzannemansolilli@...> wrote :

Hi, 

My horse was diagnosed PPID with ACTH at 461. My vet recommended 1mg Prascend, group moderators recommended increasing to 2 mg, which he has now been at for 3 weeks, and re-testing, which I am now ready to do.  My question is do I just re-test the ACTH?  Or do I get the bundled ACTH/insulin/Leptin test plus a glucose test? So do I repeat them all or just re-test ACTH?

Thanks

Suzanne & Monty
Western Colorado--July 2014


Re: when to treat..?

PapBallou@...
 

LJ -

IMO, I think this is reasonable.  If the vet is willing to treat a horse that obviously has PPID, then go for it.  Often this is the best route since waiting to get labs back can be just enough time for the horse to tip into laminitis, especially this time of the year.

You can certainly retest in the early spring to get more of an idea of what the baseline happens to be.

Linda and Pap Ballou
Western NV
May 2004


---In EquineCushings@..., <lj_friedman@...> wrote :

Assume a horse with full blown cushings, Assume vet checked recently and vet is ok with writing rx for pergolide without Cornell type  testing.  
What would be the harm in starting pergolide at titrated levels.. .25 mg for 3 day then s, .50mg .75 then 1.0mg and then Cornell test after horse has been on 1.0mg for 3 weeks. MIght there be any large regrets in not doing the Cornell testing before starting meds?


Re: leg wraps for winte rwarmth

PapBallou@...
 

Donna -

These are pretty solid, so think any full sized Boomers would simply be a cast for Duke.  

The previously mentioned Winny Warmers worked great for my now gone, ancient arthritic mare.  

I bought shipping boots for minis for my version of Duke.  Coupled with his thick pony hair, they seem to do a good job of keeping his legs warm.


Linda and Pap Ballou
Western NV
May 2004


Re: when to treat..?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 


Hi Lj,

No large regrets with this plan. If the vet agrees with writing the script now then that's fine. Your titrating plan is on target. We do what we can, when we can.

Testing 3 weeks after reaching the 1mg goal will tell you exactly where you stand with PPID at that point. It won't give you info about what happened during the seasonal rise period but that's behind you now anyway. The horse's response to the perg and that first round of bloodwork will give you plenty of information to work off of going forward.

Good job.

Lavinia, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: when to treat..?

lj friedman
 

Assume a horse with full blown cushings, Assume vet checked recently and vet is ok with writing rx for pergolide without Cornell type  testing.  Assume an equine moderator is giving help. (It seems the equine gods have sent this moderator to help this horse. She is better than perfect) Assume meals low starch/low suga. rAssume fine trims per group help.
What would be the harm in starting pergolide at titrated levels.. .25 mg for 3 day then s, .50mg .75 then 1.0mg and then Cornell test after horse has been on 1.0mg for 3 weeks. MIght there be any large regrets in not doing the Cornell testing before starting meds? l j friedman san diego mov 2014


Re: Shipping ACTH

Michelle Riley
 

Hi Stephanie,

You can get the small freezer packs from a grocery or pharmacy.  Put your frozen tubes in any small box with the freezer pack and a piece of absorbent material - cotton pads or paper towel (this is required by law for shipping bodily fluids).  FedEx has a plastic "diagnostic pak" for shipping fluids.  Put your box inside this.  Do not ship on a Friday.  Hope this helps.


Michelle

NW Indiana

2010


Re: Digest Number 12383

ahorn555@yahoo.com <ahorn555@...>
 

Dec 5th morning is fine, but if its easier for you then the Wednesday before thanksgiving or the Friday after it is ok. Your choice. And yes I can get the pergolide on monday.
Thnx. Addie

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android



From: EquineCushings@... ;
To: ;
Subject: [EquineCushings] Digest Number 12383
Sent: Sat, Nov 22, 2014 11:26:18 AM

14 Messages

Digest #12383
1a
Re: muscle up by "loes" loescal
1b
Re: muscle up by laviniamfiscaletti
2b
Re: leg wraps for winte rwarmth by laviniamfiscaletti
2c
Re: leg wraps for winte rwarmth by "Kathy Graves" kdgraves442000
4a
Re: Previcox dose by corysgroom
5a
Chasteberry and Prascend by carolynwahlfeld
5b
6
Winterizing my horse by carolynwahlfeld
7a
Re: WAS: Monty's Lab Results, NOW: Re-testing ACTH by aa39b681fcdc62d389c938919cb6e385
8a
Re: Dr Kellon - Tumeric advice? by "Mrozielski" joycemrozielski

Messages

1a

Re: muscle up

Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:12 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"loes" loescal

Lauren:

My Romke weighs1,600+ pounds, he gets 1/2 cup of split peas (raw) and 2 scoops (contained in the product) of Uckele's Tri Amino. Before that he could not make muscle. I give my other 3 equines the same adjusted to their weight. They all love the split peas.

Loes
& Romke, TJ, Dreamer and Daisy
So CA
2007or 2008

On Nov 21, 2014, at 1:56 PM, laurenn1717@... [EquineCushings] wrote:

> Hello,
> My horse is slowly going back into work and I am having trouble getting his top line back as well as just muscling him up in general.
>
> Lauren
> Arizona
> Sept 2014
>
>
>
>
>

1b

Re: muscle up

Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:26 pm (PST) . Posted by:

laviniamfiscaletti


Hi Lauren,

We really need to see your case history to be able to help more effectively. Your diet is going to play a major role in what we suggest.

Why is he on Red Cell? This is a supplement for iron and there has never been a documented case of an adult horse being iron deficient unless there has been catastrophic blood loss. Many horses, esp those with PPID and IR, are already iron overloaded.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


2a

Re: leg wraps for winte rwarmth

Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:21 pm (PST) . Posted by:

kansteensen

Hi Deborah -
Look up "Whinny Warmers" on line - they are sox for horses - some for winter- some for summer for the flies.
Karen
Scarborough,ME
May/2014
---- "deborah_ide@... [EquineCushings]" wrote:
> I have been planning to get my horse some leg wraps to keep her warm during the winter. Are there any particular ones that people have found to be good?

2b

Re: leg wraps for winte rwarmth

Fri Nov 21, 2014 2:35 pm (PST) . Posted by:

laviniamfiscaletti

Hi Deborah,

The idea is to keep in warmth so boots that cover the lower leg, and even the hoof, are what's needed. For the feet themselves you could use socks inside of padded boots. Lined shipping boots are a relatively simple solution.

How much warmth will depend on what the temps are doing in your area and how sensitive your horse is to the drop in temps. Need to start wrapping/blanketing once the temps drop into the forties as that is when the cold-induced issues start.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team





2c

Re: leg wraps for winte rwarmth

Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:08 pm (PST) . Posted by:

"Kathy Graves" kdgraves442000

Has anyone tried those things called Whinney Warmers? They might work.

K. Graves
2011
N. California

On Nov 21, 2014, at 2:35 PM, shilohmom@... [EquineCushings] wrote:

> Hi Deborah,
>
> The idea is to keep in warmth so boots that cover the lower leg, and even the hoof, are what's needed. For the feet themselves you could use socks inside of padded boots. Lined shipping boots are a relatively simple solution.
>
> How much warmth will depend on what the temps are doing in your area and how sensitive your horse is to the drop in temps. Need to start wrapping/blanketing once the temps drop into the forties as that is when the cold-induced issues start.
>
> Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
> Jan 05, RI
> EC Support Team
>
>
>
>
>
>

Kathy Graves

2d

Re: leg wraps for winte rwarmth

Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:50 pm (PST) . Posted by:

papballou

I've used them a lot, but they can be pretty tricky to get on if the horse is shod with metal or composites. Also, if the horse has a hard time standing due to arthritis issues or laminitis, they can prove to be a challenge as well.

You may consider these - take all of seconds to put on, and the horse doesn't have to lift the foot/leg...


http://www.doversaddlery.com/cashel%3Fs%C2%AE-boomer%3Fs-bandages%3F/p/X1-2610/ http://www.doversaddlery.com/cashel%3Fs%C2%AE-boomer%3Fs-bandages%3F/p/X1-2610/



Pap is in them right now...


Linda
Western NV
2004




3a

Re: Please help.  New to all of this.

Fri Nov 21, 2014 3:56 pm (PST) . Posted by:

spiral1957

Hi Tiffany,
 
Sorry, ODTB=Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes.  They are low sugar starch Timothy hay cubes, each batch balanced according to Dr. Kellon's specs.   They can actually be used as a complete feed if one cannot find low sugar starch hay or for older horses with dentition issues. Still would need to add iodized salt, ground flax seed and Vitamin E if using them as a complete feed.   Lot of us add warm water to them to "fluff" them and use them as a carrier for our minerals and supplements.  They are also great low sugar starch treats.  The Triple Crown Lite will be just fine in those small amounts, but if you are looking for a safe treat or you want to replace part of Maggie's hay, you could use the ODTB's.  Any place that carries Triple Crown products can get them so you can ask at the place where you got the TC Lite if you're interested. 
 
I use those poly rope smhn's (small mesh hay nets) too.  Love them!  I started with the ones that had about 2" holes and then ended up having to double them as Chancey got more efficient at emptying them.  Finally found these greedy feeders with 1" holes and they are working out the best of anything I've tried so far.  https://stagecoachwest.com/greedy-feeder-p-5194.html   You could try putting part of Maggie's hay in the hay net and part in the Nibble net.  I bet she masters the rope one soon and then you will be able to reintroduce the Nibble net. 
 
I'm investigating the message you got when you tried to open the link to the members database.  Stand by for more info on that.
 
How is she feeling today?
 
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/

 


Re: Please help. New to all of this.

Mandy Woods
 

Tiffany,
Just to let you know that Southern States offers 20% coupons on their products.  You need to join their site to get them.  Right now they are between coupon sales.    It really helps when you’re stocking up!
 
 
Also,  if you go to Lowes or Home Depot,  get a sheet of contractors styrofoam that is 2 inches thick.    Cut a small square for Maggie to stand on.  Sometimes two squares stacked works best.   You can rasp right into the foam and get her heels and back her toes without stressing her.
 
This list may help you.
 
 
Hang in there!
Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003


Re: Shipping ACTH

Teri
 


  Where does everyone get their shipping supplies(what container do you ship it in, where do you get the ice packs, etc)? 

Stephanie,

I get a used shipping container/ice packs from my vet.   He brings them when he draws Stormy's blood. ( I take care of the shipping myself.)  In a pinch I have frozen a bottle of water and put in the box.  I put it in a zip lock bag...just in case.   I have also gotten containers/ice packs from my small animal vet.   They usually just throw them away.   


Teri and Stormy

Indy 2012




Re: Please help. New to all of this.

Tiffany Woodward
 

Maggie,

I'll head to the TC dealer tomorrow (they're closed on Sundays) to ask about the flax & ODTB.  I just reduced the flax a little this morning and she was happier with that.  I'm continuing to soak her hay for every feeding at this point.

I still can't access the database.  When I click on "More," a small "No" symbol appears next to the database option (red circle with line) as if it is not available.

We did work on her feet a little yesterday.  She was cooperative with the right, at least long enough for us to do a little work on rasping the toe & the heel.  The left was a different story, and we were only able to rasp her toe with her standing on it.  Couldn't touch the heel.  She's a little more uncomfortable today...maybe because of the trim, maybe because she's just sore from having to shift weight, maybe both.  I'm trying to locate a farrier in NC that would be willing to work on her.

Tiffany Woodward in Washington, NC
November 2014
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/TiffanyWoodward%20and%20Maggie/

  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/540173897

 


Re: Please help. New to all of this.

Tiffany Woodward
 

Lavinia,

I'll try something other than the iodine for that crack.  I have been keeping her Soft Rides full of Gold Bond since I got them, but it seems that she developed thrush in that one foot anyway. 

We did a little bit of work on her feet yesterday.  She was reasonably cooperative with the right foot (the one with the crack) since she's happy to bear weight on the left.  Her heels were rasped down some, and her toe was taken back a little, although it might have only been 1/4 inch or so at this point.  She was much less cooperative with the left, and we had to rasp her toe with her standing on it.  So we weren't able to touch the heel on the left yesterday.  I had hoped to catch her laying down, but it just didn't work out that way.  She seems a little sore this morning.  I can't say if that's due to the foot work, or maybe from muscle soreness.  She was marginally more uncomfortable after a regular trim back on Nov. 7th for a few days.

I'm trying to locate a farrier in NC that specializes in rehab work.  The most recent vet gave me one name, but recommended him mostly for therapeutic shoeing, and there's no way we can nail a shoe on her right now.

Tiffany Woodward in Washington, NC
November 2014
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/TiffanyWoodward%20and%20Maggie/

  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/540173897

 


Re: Please help. New to all of this.

Maggie
 

Hi Tiffany,
 
I agree with Lavinia on the stabilized ground flax seed being the easiest option.  I buy the Triple Crown Omega Max from Southern States for ~$30 for a 25 lb bag.  Some folks grind their own, but if you go that route, it has to be ground fresh daily or no more than a few days at a time and stored in the frig as it goes rancid quickly.  Ground flax seed has a different "mouth feel" and some horses have trouble getting used to it.  Anytime you are having trouble getting Maggie to eat something it's best to start with just a pinch and work your way up from there.  Also, a spritz of water on her food may help the flax to stick and get gobbled up with the TC Lite. 
 
You are right, the sugar starch content will vary from lot to lot, even from the same farmer.  A lot is basically hay cut on the same day from the same field.  Some folks that board ask the barn owner to set aside an area to store the hay that they have tested for their horse.  Some folks store their hay at home and bring stuffed hay nets to the barn for their horse.  The ODTB's might be an option until you can get the hay situation sorted out.  In the meantime, you should be soaking her untested hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water.  You can use the ODTB's dry, but if you chose to add warm water to "fluff" the cubes, make sure you only add enough water that will absorb into the cubes without pouring any off.  You don't want to lose the minerals that balance them.  I use the dampened cubes as a carrier for my supplements and also as dry as treats.
 
You should be able to get into that member database now.   Here's the link:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/database  If that link doesn't work, just click on "more" and then "database" and then "regional members."  You'll have to scroll through looking for NC members that may be near you.
 
I'm glad to hear that Maggie is feeling a bit better!  You should expect her to have good days and bad.  That's the way of it.  As hard as it is, resist the urge to give her Bute on her bad days.  Did you see the mark ups that Lavinia put in your photo album? 
 
I did look at your labs in your CH too.  Thanks for updating that.  It's good that her ACTH is in the mid normal range.  With her insulin and glucose that high, a really tight low sugar starch diet is supremely important.
 
Hang in there!
 
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


 


direction needed please

bigwhitevan2002
 

Groupies,

I know I was supposed to be posting ponys latest feet pics up weeks ago, and I am sure all were anxiously awaiting such, but people and things keep dying around me,I don't mean to sound callous but emotional removal is warranted at times..


Pony feet are okay i will soon have feet pics up ( i feel i have posted this before)


Question off topic help direction needed


Richie, our gelding-- some might remember and be familiar with as Dr. Kellon helped so much with his foaling 7 years ago, has PSSM , NATURALLY , BECAUSE we are not allowed by the" horse powers that be" to have even one normal horse in our herd of four. ( except the ARAB but you all know how she will turn out being an Arab and all)


all our  horses have been on low sugar/starch hay etc etc etc-except just switched last night to " down the road hay" as I simply can not/ will not be able to procure the low S/s hay for a while -- ran out of vitamin E a month or so ago and with all of life going on haven't bothered to replace


 he had a very very bad tying up today, would a new hay cause an episode so quickly?? will probably up his selenium he only get minumin in his CAL TRACE  I know most of the protocol for managing this condition, but would like more direction and information from folks I trust 

any help would be appreciated,


Mods thanks for indulging me

anyone who can point me in a right direction ( email jcallenw8@...) much appreciation..

Julie

with Pony in Oregon

06



Re: leg wraps for winte rwarmth

Donna Coughlin
 

Hi Linda,

Do you think the Dover Cashel wraps would wrap around tightly enough to go up mini Duke's hind legs to keep his ancient arthritic hocks warm, perhaps even warming his stifles a bit (the 16" size would get to his stifles)? I've re-made Back on Track wraps that work great for his forelegs (use them with his SoftRides), but keeping those hind joints warm hasn't been so easy. I've tried various Velcro positioning on the re-worked BOT wraps and also tried making things out of fleece (magnet for shavings!), have cut the toe out of tall, heavy human socks, then put the BOT on top (that worked best, but is sooooo not fun to do and he hates lifting his stiff joints to get those socks on). But none of these solutions are great....I wouldn't care if the wraps had to go around more than once as long as the velcro would allow that. My sewing machine HATES velcro... I had to hand sew the last pieces on the BOT wraps. So I'd rather avoid adding more velcro if possible.

Hope Pap is doing well!

Best,
Donna Coughlin, Duke, Robin and Obi
CT 2009



Re: Please help. New to all of this.

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Tiffany,

Ground, stabilized flax is the easiest. Triple Crown makes Omega Max; Omega Horseshine; HorseTech makes Nutraflax. Some horses love flax, some are indifferent, some hate it. Most will adapt to it over time. Try starting with 1/4 dose for a few days, then up it to 1/2, then move to full amount mixed into her food.

Iodine is pretty caustic so it makes sense she wouldn't be happy about having it applied to that sole crack if it is opening to soft tissues. A dab of antibiotic ointment would accomplish the same thing without causing the stinging/burning. Or you could use sugardine - a mix of plain sugar and betadine, made into a paste and applied to the sole.

You can dust her frogs,soles liberally with a medicated foot powder daily - something like plain Gold Bond (or the generic). That will keep moisture controlled and keep the thrush at bay. Getting her diet balanced and her trim corrected will go a long way toward eliminating the thrush problem going forward. High heels and overgrown frogs create the perfect place for thrush to proliferate because the hoof mechanisms are impaired. The high heels get contracted, limiting expansion and contraction of the hoof capsule and the excess layers of unexfoliated, dead fog tissue provide hiding places for the thrush to set up housekeeping.

Lavinia,  Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Teddy - 28 yro Morgan/Quarter X - Pain/Inflammation

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Josey,

>My question:  What are my choices for maintenance/chronic pain/inflammation?   Is this low dose bute okay as maintenance?    He seems to be relaxing and using the leg/foot more.

I'm sorry that your message from Oct 23 seems to have fallen through the cracks.If that ever happens, please resend in a day or so, and add Second Try to the Subject Line.Sometimes things get a bit crazy here,but we sure  try not to leave anyone behind.

Can you give us a link to your case history? I know you were changing his feed last time you wrote.It's necessary for us to see the whole picture in order to give the best help.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc






Teddy - 28 yro Morgan/Quarter X - Pain/Inflammation

JMillwood5@...
 

Teddy has Cushings and has been on PErgolide for several years now at 3 mg/day.    He has some joint issue in his left leg----thought it was the pastern, but xrays are clean.   He is on glucosamine/MSM supplement.
Currently I am giving him 1 gram of bute per day---1/2 tablet am and pm.   He gets Triple Crown Senior, timothy pellets and alfalfa pellets.   He mostly quids his Bermuda hay.

My question:  What are my choices for maintenance/chronic pain/inflammation?   Is this low dose bute okay as maintenance?    He seems to be relaxing and using the leg/foot more.


Josey Humbert-Sabo

80241 - 80260 of 266974