Date   

Re: leptin interpretation -- how high can you go?

chf1752@...
 

Bella's leptin was 10.89 back in 2011. Insulin 79.66, glucose 88 and ACTH 24. All done at Cornell. Fat and blubbery like a walrus, over 200lbs overweight. She was ~20 years old at the time. She's a large pony, most likely a Welsh Cob/Arab cross. 

3 years later and massive diet and lifestyle modifications have gotten that 200lbs off her, but she does have those residual fat pads. Any time she's stressed, they puff up again. 

Her most recent glucose came back at 70, and I'm waiting on her insulin results. 

Erin
ME
2014
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Bella/



Re: leptin interpretation -- how high can you go?

Leigh Jacobs
 

Hi Kerry,
My 20+yo Shadow's leptin is >9 ng/ml.  Based on some reading of human research papers, I am correlating it to his huge, nondiminshing appetite.  He is a TWH, so called easy keeper and has not had out of normal insulin or glucose values.  He is not PPID.  However, based on what I have read from Cornell and this group, I am treating him as an IR horse, increasing his fiber, decreasing his concentrates, and trying to get him turned out every day, or ridden.  He is a jumpy/nervous horse, but I have always attributed it to his young years in the show ring.  Makes me wonder if the people in leptin studies have issues as well???
Leigh, Ace and Shadow
Tucson, AZ
2011





On Wednesday, December 10, 2014 11:54 AM, "kerry.isherwood@... [EquineCushings]" wrote:


 
So my gelding's leptin came back 8.32 ng/mL (norm 1-4).  He's the 7yo Saddlebred with inexplicable nervous behavior that has been on gabapentin since April, 2014.  He recently came up with two high insulins, the latest being 47 uIU/mL.  Initially the thought was that perhaps gabapentin was driving the insulin up but with a leptin like that....yeesh!  Has anyone ever seen a leptin that high?  Cornell only indicates that >7 ng/ml is "high".  You guys have more experience than anyone else I know with leptin, so should I believe a leptin this high or throw it out and re-submit a new sample? 

In denial of EMS for horse #2,

Kerry in NY
Sept 2014




Adding Cyproheptadine to Pergolide prescription

Jen Mcgeehan
 

Aloha from Hawaii!

It has been a long time since I came to this site for help...So glad to have your input on a new situation with my 32-year old Palomino - Smoke Signal Dun.

He has been on Pergolide, currently 5mg, for about 3 years. Suffered a coffin bone rotation in 2011 and diagnosed with IR and Cushings. We successfully brought him back to good health, through this site's excellent advise, and we still ride our pastures. In 2013 his ACTH level was 29.6. Just had another blood test done and it is at 51. I know this time of year the count can rise, but am sure it is way too high. He is currently on 5mg of Pergolide from Thriving Pets. The vet won't write a prescription for any higher of a dose even though I shared with her that horses can go as high as 10 or 12 mg, if needed. She wants to add Cyrpoheptadine with the Pergolide. Any studies to share in regards to the success of this? I went on line and it indicated that Cyproheptadine (Periactin) doesn't seem to be anywhere near as effective compared to Pergolide. But I didn't see anything in regards to the combination. Would appreciate your help/input here. (His IR numbers are fine...) Merry Christmas!!!


Re: Soaking odtb cubes

ferne fedeli
 

We soak 4 lbs. of cubes for my partner's Appy in the am and use roughly 3/4 of a 2 gallon bucket of water.  At night, he gets 5 lbs. of cubes and a full 2 gallons of water.  It depends on how "soupy" you want it, of course.  As a supplement carrier am and pm for all 3 equines, I put 1 gallon of warm/hot water over about 1 lb. of cubes.  What I don't use for the supps, goes over the top of the Appy's other cubes.  It is definitely a little more soupy.  The cubes also soften up very quickly in the hot water, although it probably takes 10 minutes or more for me to do the other chores and get around to dishing out the carrier cubes and supps...
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010

On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 10:36 PM, Lj lj_friedman@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
 

I need to prepare the cubes for a 10 minute soaking. Can someone tell me how much water to pour over 4 to 5 pounds of cubes ? I need to have the water set aside each time for the barnmanager where it's easy for him to pour over the needed amount of water If anyone is soaking approximately four or 5 pounds of hay cubes, let me know how much water you soak with and I will do the same. Thanks. Lj friedman San Diego November 2014

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Re: off topic

ferne fedeli
 

I have an Icelandic Horse 20 yo that is Cushings and IR and a 9 yo donkey that I assume is IR (never tested).
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010

On Sun, Dec 7, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Lj lj_friedman@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
 

I'm wondering of the members on the group, approximately how many of us have Cushing's horses and how many of us have IR horses? LJ Friedman San Diego November 2014

Sent from my iPhone



leptin interpretation -- how high can you go?

Kerry Isherwood
 

So my gelding's leptin came back 8.32 ng/mL (norm 1-4).  He's the 7yo Saddlebred with inexplicable nervous behavior that has been on gabapentin since April, 2014.  He recently came up with two high insulins, the latest being 47 uIU/mL.  Initially the thought was that perhaps gabapentin was driving the insulin up but with a leptin like that....yeesh!  Has anyone ever seen a leptin that high?  Cornell only indicates that >7 ng/ml is "high".  You guys have more experience than anyone else I know with leptin, so should I believe a leptin this high or throw it out and re-submit a new sample? 

In denial of EMS for horse #2,

Kerry in NY
Sept 2014



Re: International Volunteers Day

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I just want to emphasize that each and every person on this group is important.

There is no way we could do what we do with only one person manning the group.  Not only would that one person starve to death from 24/7 work as an unpaid volunteer, they would not be able to keep pace with the need and certainly wouldn't have any time to organize or move things forward.

There have also been priceless pieces of information coming from members. The practice of soaking hay to lower sugars came from a member of this group who was trying soaking to lower iron and noted it reliably reduced sugar.  An agronomist in the group at the time suggested this was a "duh" moment since rained on hay had lower sugar but the bottom line was that soaking to reduce sugar had never been suggested before our member reported it. Studies on the effect of soaking continue to this day.

The fall rise in ACTH that is such an integral factor in how we manage PPID horses was first suspected and documented by the veterinarian of one of our owners - before it ever appeared in an article.

I had long suspected a role for iron in IR because of what is known to occur in humans and other species, but the proof was only possible because members got involved and tested their horses.

This group was a really exciting place in the early days of IR when the veterinary  community at large dismissed it.  Now that IR is mainstream, it's not so high energy but the sheer volume of the information here can provide new insights on an ongoing basis.

YOUR INFORMATION IS CRITICAL in moving understanding forward in a way that small formal studies cannot.  We cannot usurp formal studies, but we sure can direct them to confirm what we see.  Fill out a case history.  Check out the polls and databases.  We need you.

A university associated vet recently said owner observations were "suspect at best".  Our view point is exactly the opposite.  No one is more qualified to report their animal's condition than an involved owner.  Speak up.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: Complete diet: NOW:Proper PPID protocol

lj friedman
 

Thanks for the reply. I am very aware I how to titrate the pergolide. I have already purchased the APF and will ask your specific instructions when I start treatment. And when pergolide is started I will be using a local vet with cushings experience and cornell access . It just so happens that an equine vet the boards at my barn has a cushings horse , she is out of town now but I will consult with her as well. Lj Friedman San Diego November 2014

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Re: throwing this out there

Diana Marquardt
 

Can't get on Yahoo try rod Johnson at horse tech he said he would help me good luck



On December 10, 2014, at 7:17 AM, "bigwhitevan2002@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:


 

Rather than go down the list of hay gurus ( as i  started and was respectfully asked to look further as first person I inquired of was super busy at this time) I am tossing out a request for anyone who has a bit of time to help me balance out my hay and get my horses back on a tighter mineral profile.

 I have been going the CAL Trace route, but due to another special needs horse as well as my PPIDers I would like help, well not help I am asking if someone can do the math etc to get my hay balanced out,


who ever is available please let me know when , where , and who to send funding too


I know this is a busy time of year for most..


Thanks 

Julie 

Oregon 06

with Pony, Kayla, Richard, and Shy. 


throwing this out there

bigwhitevan2002
 

Rather than go down the list of hay gurus ( as i  started and was respectfully asked to look further as first person I inquired of was super busy at this time) I am tossing out a request for anyone who has a bit of time to help me balance out my hay and get my horses back on a tighter mineral profile.

 I have been going the CAL Trace route, but due to another special needs horse as well as my PPIDers I would like help, well not help I am asking if someone can do the math etc to get my hay balanced out,


who ever is available please let me know when , where , and who to send funding too


I know this is a busy time of year for most..


Thanks 

Julie 

Oregon 06

with Pony, Kayla, Richard, and Shy. 


Re: DEHY Cubes

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Ruth,

>Orange tag on the bottom says Premium Timothy cubes.  I appears my assumption was correct.

Especially for new members,I was trying to clarify whether you were talking about Timothy cubes, or Timothy Balance cubes - I forget whether you're in Canada or not,but here they are called Complete cubes.
 The Timothy Balance cubes are the ones most of us use because we're looking for the added minerals,etc.
I have bought the straight Timothy cubes from OD,too, but for a different purpose.
Lorna in Ontario,Canada

ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc







DEHY Cubes

Ruth Vale
 

>> have a 3/4 bag of Ontario DEHY timothy forage cubes that my morgan
refuses to touch.
>Bag says "Ontario DEHY Premium Quality Forage cubes. My mistake, I assumed Timothy.

Orange tag on the bottom says Premium Timothy cubes.  I appears my assumption was correct.
In any case, my guy won't touch them.  Even when mixed in with stuff he does like.  I have discovered he likes peanuts, though, so we have the beginnings of a treat library.

Sorry I don't have the links - I'm locked out of Yahoo at the moment.  It forgot my user id and my password after more than a decade of membership and I don't  have the stamina to argue with the idiot.  Argh!

Ruth and Bounce
September 2013


 


Re: Pentosan safe for IR & PPID?

Stephanie Stout
 

Thank you very much, Susan! Glad that he can have it, he will be very happy! 

Stephanie & King
Oregon
Oct 2014


Re: Just saying hello

Emily Olszak
 

^Can you divide her daily hay ration into a few small mesh hay nets and distribute them around her turnout area?^

What a great suggestion, thank you! I will order more small mesh hay nets.

The arthritis is in her back hocks, especially the right. This year her range of motion in that joint decreased by half which is why the vet prescribed the firocoxib. It has helped. She's had problems with that hock since I bought her at an auction as a yearlings she had gotten that leg tangled in a wire fence before i got her and still has scars around her lower leg. Was always sound and reliable enough to be my trail riding buddy. Just in the last year that leg got worse.
No problems with arthritis in her front legs.
I was just out at the barn and she's moving around very well, no limp or shortness even in the concrete aisle.

Thanks again,

Emily Olsazk
Kenosha Wisconsin
12/14


Re: International Volunteers Day

Donna Coughlin
 

Amen is exactly right. We here (with our little backyard barn) are so thankful to everyone who researches, answers posts and pleas, holds hands and hooves, offers cyber wine and chocolate along with so much sound scientific advice. Because of you all, I have three healthy horses, including poster child, ancient mini Duke. We are all forever, deeply grateful!!!!

THANK YOU ALL!

Donna Coughlin, Duke, Robin Goodfellow and Oberon
CT 2009


Re: Pain Reliever Recommendation

Lorna Cane
 

It's really, really hard to watch,Sally.
But if you can soak/poultice find the spot and let the gunk out she will feel so much better.
Water as warm as she will tolerate. Might be warmer than you think from your own feel.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup

Support the ECIR Group while you shop. It's easy.  

http://www.iGive.com/EquineCushingsandInsulinResistanceGroupInc




Re: Pain Reliever Recommendation

larkstabatha
 

Thanks everyone for your feedback... this definitely was a sudden onset after two days of heavy rain and wet conditions.  The vet used hoof testers and found her to be sensitive closer to the heel, and not on the toe of her Left front.  She would not allow him, and has not allowed me, to pick up her right front for more than a quick second.

Have started soaking and am hoping to find a NON-NSAID that might make her more comfortable and willing to move.  Hard to watch her in this much pain.

Thanks again,
Sally in N.AZ


Re: Just saying hello

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Emily,

It is also possible that the descent has been there for some time and occurred gradually over time. Happens a lot.

The worsening of her arthritis may actually have been laminitis starting rather than an arthritis issue - how was arthritis diagnosed initially? The dose of Previcox (canine firocoxib) she is on is extremely high - it would appropriate for a 1300lb horse and Coco is a 13.3hh POA. Has she been on this for several years for her arthritis or is this something new? Firocoxib is not without risks, esp at doses above FDA approval and when used for more than 2 weeks. See here for more info:

http://www.drugs.com/pro/equioxx.html

Although many vets prscribe Previcox instead of the equine version Equioxx due to the substantial cost savings, it is difficult to properly dose equines using the Previcox as it is formulated specifically for dogs, whose dosing requirements are substantially higher than those of horses.


Can you divide her daily hay ration into a few small mesh hay nets and distribute them around her turnout area? That way, it will take her quite a bit longer to finish up her hay allotment and she doesn't have an empty stomach for as long a period of time.


Look forward to seeing the xrays and test results, Pics of her feet would be good too.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Testing

Heather Leonard
 

Hi,


Recently, I had some body work done on my horse and it was suggested that I evaluate her for Cushings.  I had started to suspect that she may be showing signs indicative of this disease.  I want to make sure that I test her correctly.  The body worker suggested that I run an ACTH/Insulin, Leptin and Glucose.  Are those the correct tests to run?  Any others that should be run?  Plan is to send the blood to Cornell.  I just read all the files in the files section that I thought pertained to running blood work, but may have missed some.  Just wanted to make sure that there wasn't anything special that needed to be done when the blood was pulled and/or sent.  Am I correct that horses do not need to be fasted and can have free choice hay up until the blood test?  If on beet pulp, 4 hours post meal is ok correct?


Thank you!


Heather 

Mass

2000



Re: Pain Relievers

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi sally,

Abscess tends to be only one foot, seems to come on overnight, pounding pulse in only that foot, will make the horse 3-legged lame and can be worse than any bout of laminitis. Sometimes there is swelling in the pastern/fetlock.

As awful as it is to watch, the best thing to do with an abscess is to poultice or soak to help draw it out. Numotizine is a good one:

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=4fa01f0e-3a8a-4ffe-a694-ab474ac070cf

Any NSAIDs that you use for pain (which may not work anyway) will only slow down and prolong the process. Movement can be helpful to get it mobilized and draining. Once it bursts the pain relief is usually immediate.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


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