Date   

Re: treats

Ellen
 

Hi Kerry,

    I am responding to your earlier posting. I use sugar free peppermint lifesavers as a treat for my IR pony mare. For a change I use Emerald Valley's low s/s Beet Treats. On You tube there is a recipe for low s/s home made treats. I haven't made them as I don't cook.

 

Ellen and Annie

20014

Long Island, NY

> My mare is IR and very early PPID. She is on 1.5mg pergolide (Prascend).
> When her insulin is high she is profoundly lethargic and depressed. It can
> literally change day-to-day. In fact, I jump on her bareback every few
> days just to feel how her energy level is as part of my monitoring of her
> condition in between bloodwork. Since starting pergolide last fall her
> insulin is much easier to control and under tack she feels great! In
> fact, she was such a powerhouse when i got on this week Im getting out her
> jumping tack (we do eventing/hunter pacing) which I thought might be put
> away for good :( considering how badly my mare was feeling thru the fall.
>
> Im unable to open your case history via my phone but I am curious if your
> horse had any IR history, as I was shocked at just how quickly and
> profoundly my mare's energy level could change bc of her wildly
> fluctuating insulin status.
>
> Kerry in NY
> Pinky Sept 2014
> Tofurky Nov 2014
>
>


Adding phosphate to supps?

lj friedman
 

Dr. K told me to fix my phosphate levels which are at 65% of RDI. Because Ca is already very high I am stuck on what to do and am considering remaining at 65% RDI unless there is a fix that makes sense. Would remaining at 65% RDI be a crime? I keep my supps simple and dont use Horsetech. ( r/sr/beet pulp, farriers formula, tc omega flax  salt, vit E,  and soon to be added selenium leaves only the phosphate coming up short. And another factor is that I give these same supps to a non-cushings horse who eats orchard hay but also needs farriers formul and salt for sure)  I dont want to re invent the wheel for 100% Rdi phosphate unless it is very important. 

ECHistory8



Selenium vehicle ?

lj friedman
 

I need to add 2 mg of selenium to my horses supps. I already bought many bottles of puritans pride 1000 iu vit e in soybean oil so I dont want to switch to a vite/sel combo.  Are there any particular brands or types of selenium that I should consider? lj friedman san diego nov 2014,


ECHistory8



Re: California Trace Plus

Stephanie Stout
 

Hi Everyone,

@Lorna, I lost my CH when my computer crashed so I don't have one to post until I can fill it all out again. I can answer any questions if you need!

I contacted CA Trace(Sally) and heard back about the ESC and Starch values if anyone is interested. The California Trace Plus has "Per Equi-analytical, each 4 ounce serving of CA Trace PLUS contains: ESC  8.7 grams, Starch 7.5 grams".

I know this is high for an IR horse so I'm thinking that it's not safe. So, does anyone have another mineral supplement they use? I know the perfect situation is to get the hay balanced but I just can't do that right now so trying to find something that will help for now.

Thanks!
Stephanie
Oregon
Oct 2014




Re: Problem with horse without energy

Nancy C
 

Hi Cynthia

This lethargy seems to be a chronic problem for Tucker. I don't think horses are lazy without a reason. To get to the bottom of it, use the DDT+E road map and pull the pieces apart.

Diagnosis - are you sure Tucker needs pergo all year?  Yes, I have read his CH again and know he was elevated in April 2013 after being trucked to the clinic. You raised his dose based on symptoms.   There also may be other undiagnosed issues.

Diet - most horses need more calories, more protein, more salt when working. Might want to review again the  "Feeding Recovered Laminitic" Doc  http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/feeding-recovered-laminitics

 

Trim - Bad hoof form, pain, can make a horse very sluggish.

Exercise - Pushing them to far too fast can cause issues but I think you probably on top of this.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Invest in the health of your horse and help ECIR Group nonprofit at the same time! Hear Drs Kellon, Bowker and more, in eight hours of great info and informative Q&A from 2013 NO Laminitis! Conference.

Conference Proceedings & Recordings

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <cboriskin@...> wrote :

My horse has always been sluggish.

EC Case History 3



Re: Cushings or Not

Maggie
 

Hi Pamela, 

Welcome to the group!  Though slightly time consuming, a case history (CH) is extremely important for us as it gives the details that we need to answer your questions more accurately.  Please join ECH8 and follow the instructions to get that filled out.  The details that you provide may make all the difference in the advice that we give you.  Here's a link to join: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/info 

An example of why the CH is so important is that you mention that the vet "did a stimulation test and collected the blood 10 minutes later".  There is more than one kind of stimulation test, so we need to know more details.  By your description of collecting blood 10 minutes after an injection it sounds like a TRH test, which has a lot of false positives (especially during the seasonal rise), but we would not want to make that assumption without knowing for sure.  Can you get a hard copy of the test?  You can add it to your CH folder in ECH8.

In the meantime, you may benefit from doing a search of the archived messages for information on the TRH test.  Below are a few to get you started, some from Dr. Kellon.  Though the TRH test does have a lot of false positives, especially during the seasonal rise, that does not mean that your horse does not have PPID.  We don't know what his baseline ACTH was in the fall is that correct?  Some horses need pergolide, at the beginning of the disease process anyway, only during the seasonal rise.  Some need pergolide year round.  Sluggishness/depression/lack of appetite can be signs of the pergolide veil, which some, but not all horses experience when first starting on the drug. A product called APF can help with the pergolide veil.  http://www.auburnlabs.com/html/eqProdGen.html 

Here's are the links to some archived messages on the TRH test that may interest you if in fact, that is the test your vet did:





Meanwhile, have a read on our website about our philosophy of DDT/E, which stands for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise.  All the details that you need to get the DDT under tight control are outlined here:  http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview  Use the menu in blue on the left side to maneuver around the whole site.  There is a LOT of valuable information to read about!  

We ask all members to sign their name (first is fine), date of joining, and general location in their signature each time they post.  And once you get your CH done, please include a link to it in your signature as well.  Thanks!

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/



Re: Cushings or Not

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

In short, yes, it could have been a false positive - sort of!  He may still have normal ACTH when not in the seasonal rise but with a response that high my bet would be he is an early Cushing's horse.  I think it's reasonable to taper him off and retest.  If negative, would plan on testing both insulin and ACTH in late August.  If his insulin is worsening, consider at least seasonal pergolide to head off laminitis.

Eleanor in Pa
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: coconut oil.

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Ronelle,

Is this the product you are/were feeding?  Hoof & Hair Guard | Horse Guard

 


Which product did you stop?  If you are feeding Hoof & Hair this is the contribution your are receiving per day based on the 6 oz. recommended serving at a cost of $1.74:  Biotin 106 mg or 0.1 gram, Methionine 6 grams, Lysine 6 grams, Zinc 400 mg, Glycine 3.5 grams, Phenylalmine 3.2 grams, Cystine and soy oil 32 grams.  Copper is listed in the ingredient list,  but not in the guaranteed analysis.  There is no selenium listed.   You can easily compare this to the CA Trace analysis which is listed on the site and I think you will agree that the CA Trace gives you a better nutrient profile.  There is no equine requirement for glycine and phenylalmine that I could find.  It is my understanding that if you are supplementing methionine you don't need to supplement cystine.  Of course, as you know, the most effective tool to your horse's diet is hay/diet analysis and to supplement according to requirement and diet deficiencies.

Are you considering supplementing flax?  The flax Omega 3: Omega 6 profile is closest to grass and if he were my horse and I thought he might be IR I would chose flax over coconut oil.

Kathy Brinkerhoff

10/12  SE/WI

 




Re: chia vs. flax

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The rationale for grinding flax is that the seeds are too small to chew so it will be utilized better if ground first.  This has never actually been proven to be the case.  Since chia seeds are both smaller and harder than flax seeds, it makes no sense to say they don't have to be ground but flax does.


Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: Problem with horse without energy

Kerry Isherwood
 

Oops! Just saw that your post said your horse is not IR. I missed that in my first read. Sorry!

Kerry in NY


Re: Problem with horse without energy

Kerry Isherwood
 

My mare is IR and very early PPID. She is on 1.5mg pergolide (Prascend). When her insulin is high she is profoundly lethargic and depressed. It can literally change day-to-day. In fact, I jump on her bareback every few days just to feel how her energy level is as part of my monitoring of her condition in between bloodwork. Since starting pergolide last fall her insulin is much easier to control and under tack she feels great! In fact, she was such a powerhouse when i got on this week Im getting out her jumping tack (we do eventing/hunter pacing) which I thought might be put away for good :( considering how badly my mare was feeling thru the fall.

Im unable to open your case history via my phone but I am curious if your horse had any IR history, as I was shocked at just how quickly and profoundly my mare's energy level could change bc of her wildly fluctuating insulin status.

Kerry in NY
Pinky Sept 2014
Tofurky Nov 2014


Problem with horse without energy

 

My horse has always been sluggish. I am not sure if it's just him or Cushings. He was tested (ACTH) last July that showed his dosage of .75mg was working. I increased the pergolide .75 to 1mg last August because he was showing symptoms (increase in drinking and urinating) and I thought it might be because of the seasonal rise. The symptoms have stopped since being on 1mg. I have since kept him on 1mg.

We are on a drill team and I am finding it difficult to get him to go. When we are on the trails he is always lagging. Is it him that is being lazy? or does he need a supplement to give him more energy?

I have his hay analyzed and balanced. He is fed a mix of orchard/Timothy grass hay and 2 pounds of WellSolve as a carrier for his minerals and supplements. Since yesterday, I am slowly changing the WellSolve to Standlee's Tiimothy grass pellets. I am now doing 1 pound of each. He is not IR. I cannot afford to have the ACTH test done more than twice a year. It is $250 each time I have it done. The last test was done last July.

Are there any other members who are having the same problem as I am? What are you doing to give your horse more energy?

If you look at my history file, it is updated except for the pergolide dosage is 1mg, not .75mg.

Cynthia from CA

Tucker 10/10

EC Case History 3



Cushings or Not

Pamela Jacobs
 

I became a member of this group in October 2014 when my 23 yr. old Arab was diagnosed with Cushings. I have not completed a case study, but am hoping to get some input on my question if possible, particularly from Dr. Kellon. My horse had seemed more lethargic than usual (he has always been a very mellow Arab) so when the vet came for Fall vaccinations, I had him do a blood panel to see if he was anemic. We decided then to also test for Cushings. The vet did a stimulation test and collected the blood 10 minutes later. He did not do a baseline prior to stimulating (although he did have a blood sample for the panel, he didn't check ACTH with it). My horse had been fed breakfast as normal before that and the vaccinations were given before the blood was drawn as well.  The test came back at 1248! We put him on 1 tablet of Prascend. I also changed his diet to low sugar/starch. We then tested 6 weeks later and his ACTH was 16! I also had him tested for IR then following the ECIR protocol regarding feeding not fasting, and the results came back normal.  I then reduced the Prascend to .5 tablet since the ACTH was so low, and because my horse had seemed depressed ever since being on the Prascend. At .5 tab, he perked up in attitude although he remains sluggish when ridden. We just tested again after 4 weeks at .5 tablet and the result was 15! My question is:  could the October stimulation test have shown a false positive and he doesn't have Cushings at all? I'm considering tapering off the Prascend and retesting in 4 to 6 weeks to see if he is still in the normal range. Is this recommended? As I said, he is still sluggish being ridden, although he's had some spurts of energy; his demeanor is fine; his hair coat is longish, but not much more than other horses in winter; his appetite has always been great; and his body condition is very good. Thank you for whatever advice you can provide!



Re: Prascend, dissolved, via syringe?

solvangsue
 

My mare is picky about meds and I don't want to alienate her when the meds are a forever thing. I give her pergolide capsules in two grapes.  They don't seem to be causing her problems sugar-wise and she gobbles them right down.

Sue / Mama Walker
March 2013, So CA
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/echistory7/files/Susan%20Bott/



Re: coconut oil.

Chanda
 

Are you feeding the recommended flax?  Is so, perhaps he needs a bit more for his coat.

Chanda

MT 9/04



coconut oil.

Ronelle Dietsch <ronelledietsch@...>
 

I had been giving my horse Hoof and Skin Guard along with California Trace.  But I had to stop one due to excessive selenium.   Now his coat/mane and tail are dull and course.  Any thoughts on giving him coconut oil to bring back the sheen?  He may be IR.


Coconut oil

Ronelle Dietsch <ronelledietsch@...>
 

I had been giving my horse Hoof and Skin Guard along with California Trace.  I had to stop one of them due to excess selinum.  Now his coat, mane and tail are dull and coarse.  Any thoughts on giving him coconut oil for his coat?


Re: chia vs. flax

Nancy C
 

If you read the chart again you will see references to nutritiondatacom for most of items.  Hemp info is from wiki.

here's a message from Dr K on feed value of stabilized flax
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/100376

 

If you do a search of message archives on "flax chia"  using either drkellon or kfg as the author you will find lots of discussion for background.

bottom line, pound for pound the significant extra cost of chia does not warrant using it over fresh ground or stabilized flax.

Lonk did not work for me.  for those who want to see the chart Beverly is referencing, Go here

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/%203%20%20CORE%20DIET%2C%20ANALYSIS%2C%20NUTRITIONAL%20NEEDS/Omega%203%20%26%20Omega%206%20Info/

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Invest in the health of your horse and help ECIR Group nonprofit at the same time! Hear Drs Kellon, Bowker and more, in eight hours of great info and informative Q&A from 2013 NO Laminitis! Conference.

http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/conference-proceedings-recordings



---In EquineCushings@..., <bmeyer@...> wrote :

I looked at the Files chart comparing flax, chia, rice bran, etc.


Pabatsa is a tiny bit overweight

lauramollrich
 

With all of the rain this winter it has been difficult to get a workout in for Pabatsa.  Our dressage, as well as the several other arenas, are flooded especially if they don't get dragged in time.


Pabatsa has a little more weight on him that I care to see.  I was away for over a month and others taking care of him.  Which should I cut back on 1.)  Beet pulp  (1-1/2 lbs am and 1-1/2 lbs pm)  2.) Timothy hay (they had been feeding him at least 30 lbs/day  3.) Ontario Cubes 3 lbs./day.  He gets his supplements, etc added to his evening ration.


Laura in CA

1/2012

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory5/files/Laura%20Mollrich/


chia vs. flax

beverly meyer
 

I looked at the Files chart comparing flax, chia, rice bran, etc.  (Link below, I hope).

My question is if the flax nutrients reported there were from unground, freshly ground or "stabilized" previously ground.

I understand flax must be ground to be usable, but it's only stable/not rancid for 1 to 3 days, if that.

If flax is older or stabilized, the fats would not be fresh, right? Wouldn't this affect its score as the best anti-inflammatory choice?

Am wondering then if chia might have a higher actual anti-inflammatory effect as it doesn't need to be ground or "stabilized".

Thanks for the advice!

Beverly 6/14

Beverly Texas

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Beverly%20Texas/



https://xa.yimg.com/df/EquineCushings/FlaxBOSSpeasCHIAhemp.pdf?token=WZCoX-XNq4rjUzUiEQ7piPMh6Qd3xshjvF40LedfI8KJNyNGDHcxaFjCm7yQ5Sr1NBfI44w7iWPR3Nq-AIuEgxvgpQ32uJqE1mhY1upqFfEkZu0BTVYIpFBHoAn6dSbOcNm1dnBJzJa2TOUeZp14o9TMw5z5QBajQ_qGjJu6PdX7zbXfOV5ZRGdUkCB_hyLha6ZsBCmPDC_5GYOxHNImuBtSbids2I1r2vgIENnDmW9zuZZhR6xq&type=download

92081 - 92100 of 279935