Date   

Re: cold protection for sensitive feet in IR horse

tjwenham@...
 

Hi Karen

Here in the UK it is not as cold as your winter (although this year it is colder than average) but I have been turning my IR horse out in Thermatex Leg Wraps down to his coronets.   He comes in with really warm legs and his feet are also warm!   He does not have boots on.

The Thermatex wraps are thicker than the wool sox.   Don't know though if they are available in the US.

Best wishes

Jenny
Buckingham  UK


Re: Flaxseed oil instead of ground flax

Stephanie Stout
 

I get my whole flax from my feed store. It comes in a 50lb bag, which lasts me about 6 months(I give it to all my horses). Hope that helps.

Stephanie
Oregon
Oct 2014



Re: Flaxseed oil instead of ground flax

 

 >>Where do people get whole flax?<<

I get mine at the feed store.

Cynthia Boriskin from CA
Tucker 10/10


 


Re: Flaxseed oil instead of ground flax

Chanda
 

Where do people get whole flax?  No place around here carries it (not likely to order it either), and what I've looked at on-line is like $2/pound or more plus shipping.

Thanks.

Chanda

MT 9/04


Re: cold protection for sensitive feet in IR horse

kansteen5545@...
 

Hi Nancy -
Thanks for your reply. Are these human wool sox you are using? And are you only wrapping and booting the fronts? I have boots with studs so I can use those. How old is your Morgan?
Yes! I'm looking forward to spring too!!!
Karen
Scarborough,ME
May/2014

---- "threecatfarm@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

Hi Karen

I've been going through some of the same thing, starting with big abscess on my Morgan IR boy at Christmas. I usually leave them out 24/7 except for extremes. This year he definitely wants to come in to lie down.

He's in boots with wool sox and leg wraps. The boots have studs. Even in deep snow, he is nice and toasty.

I finally found a place for bagged sawdust so have been using that. It makes a big differnce, IMO, loading the foot more like standing on a conformable surface. My stalls unfortunately are cement floored with hard pads so this is a big help. We're able to get the boots off on some nights, just to give him a break, and still keep him comfortable.

No question cold can have an impact. If that is the issue, you should see improvement fairly soon after wrapping. I find when Beau points one foot he's usually got an imbalance or other mechanical issue. It was how this abscess started as well.


Re: cold protection for sensitive feet in IR horse

Nancy C
 

Hi Karen

I've been going through some of the same thing, starting with big abscess on my Morgan IR boy at Christmas.  I usually leave them out 24/7 except for extremes.  This year he definitely wants to come in to lie down. 

He's in boots with wool sox and  leg wraps.  The boots have studs. Even  in deep snow, he is nice and toasty. 

I finally found a place for bagged sawdust so have been using that.  It makes a big differnce, IMO, loading the foot more like standing on  a conformable surface.  My stalls unfortunately are cement floored with hard pads so this is a big help.  We're able to get the boots off on some nights, just to give him a break, and still keep him comfortable. 

No question cold can have an impact. If that is the issue, you should see improvement fairly soon after wrapping. I find when Beau points one foot he's usually got an imbalance or other mechanical issue.  It was how this abscess started as well.

Looking forward to spring.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
FACT: Analysis by the ECIR Group of the seasonal pattern of laminitis cases and the naturally occurring levels of fructan in grasses, has shown Fructan to be highly unlikely as the cause for laminitis. See  E. M. Kellon, VMD, The Internet as an Epidemiological Tool, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <kansteen5545@...> wrote :


Re: Flaxseed oil instead of ground flax

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

You would need about 8500 mg of flax oil per oz of ground flax seed.  If you can find it, might be easier to do liquid flax seed oil.  Another alternative which she would probably not object to is just using whole flax seed instead of ground.

Ground/milled flax is stable for around 6 months, although some claim up to almost 2 years.  Horses are probably much better at picking up off tastes from oxidized fats then we are and that will make them refuse the product. Of course, if it smells even remotely "off" to you, don't feed it.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Flaxseed oil instead of ground flax

Tiffany Woodward
 

Alright, Maggie is just not going to eat ground flax.  She tolerated it until I got up to the 2 oz. per day, and then decided she would not touch her hay cubes if flax was anywhere near them.  So I eliminated the flax, went back to just salt, and now she's happy again.

While browsing in the store, I found cold-pressed flaxseed oil capsules with 2 options: 1000 mg (450 mg Omega-3) or 1200 mg (540 mg Omega-3).  What would the equivalent of 2 oz. per day with either of these options?  I'm betting she'd eat one out of my hand with a few pellets.


Tiffany in NC

Nov. 2014

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/TiffanyWoodward%20and%20Maggie/

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/540173897

 



Re: cold protection for sensitive feet in IR horse

kansteen5545@...
 

Hello -
I have an almost 30 year old Standardbred mare with Hx of founder x2 in the past with slight laminitic episode this past spring who now this winter shows a - I think - a sensitivity to the cold on her feet. (She will stand with her butt up against a wall and stick her right front foot out at times) We have lots of snow and temps have been cold. She is in a pen with a run-in shed and when it's below "0" at night or stormy, I take her into the barn where she has a stall with shavings to stand in. Now here's the thing - she hates being stalled - none of the other horses come in - she stall-walks but lately HAS been drinking some water inside, and has been lying down sometimes. (Outside, the horses have a heated tank) I like to keep her outside as much as I can when temps are above "0" at night so I am going to try wrapping her legs in polo wraps - do you think I should boot her also? And what about a diaper in the boot to conserve heat. OR - is is better for her feet to be in shavings? Or maybe a little of both so she is not inside every night?
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Karen%20and%20Bay%20Lady/
Karen
Scarborough,ME
May/2014


Re: Help with a pony club

Maggie
 

Hi Pear, or is it Pearl?  

Sorry, you signed "Pear" and it looks like "Pearl" in your email address, thus my confusion.  Here is a great, very well documented story of Druid that might interest you   http://www.ironfreehoof.com/severe-laminitis-case-study.html  Click on the links at the bottom (or side) to continue reading his story.--month two, three, etc...It's more than 5 minutes worth of information, but I think you could trim it down and make your point.  Paige's information is copyrighted so you might have to contact her to see how you can use it, but I'm sure she'd be happy that you are helping to educate people before they experience laminitis!  Just click on "copyright © 2003-2013" at the very bottom of the page on her site and it will take you to her contact page.  

Hope that helps!
 
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/



Re: Help with a pony club

Lorna Cane
 


Link to Success Stories:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/EC%20and%20IR%20Success%20Stories%21%21/

 




Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup


 





 


 


Re: Help with a pony club

Lorna Cane
 




Hi Pearl,


>I have the pleasure of giving a presentation to a pony club and the topic of interest is founder.


>I have lots of material on laminitis and would like to try to get a real life story on the subject: ‘bone penetrating sole’. The five minute letter(s) and pictures (x-rays and photos) that I can present to the pony club can consist of how you felt through all this, thoughts on haunting words like, "If I only knew how my horse would suffer," "I knew but didn’t change things like diet," and of course the emotional suffering I went through as a horse lover.


This is a terrific opportunity to give the Pony Clubber's  such valuable information. And being a trimmer,too, you have so much added knowledge from your work to fill in the blanks.


I  know you will get some great responses here.

But also, don't forget about the Success Stories in our Files. Have you checked them out?


Or go to www.ecirhorse.org


I didn't think of them yesterday when we spoke.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup


 


Help with a pony club

pearlgibb@...
 

.

Hello everyone; I would like to ask a really big favour on short notice but I just thought of an idea to help send a message home.


I have the pleasure of giving a presentation to a pony club and the topic of interest is founder.


I have lots of material on laminitis and would like to try to get a real life story on the subject: ‘bone penetrating sole’. The five minute letter(s) and pictures (x-rays and photos) that I can present to the pony club can consist of how you felt through all this, thoughts on haunting words like, "If I only knew how my horse would suffer," "I knew but didn’t change things like diet," and of course the emotional suffering I went through as a horse lover.


I’m not trying to scare the young teens but I need them not to think about founder and focus more on how not to get laminitis. I am hoping that a real life story will hit home. I just think the best way of learning is to emotionally feel through words and not experience. This is like coming through the back door, so to speak.


Yours truly


Pear Gibb

Corbyville On

2011



Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

Nancy C
 

Hi Beverly

Thanks for reading the HAIR ANALYSIS doc.  As you saw, this test is not reliable for many minerals, including iron.

This paragraph from Dr Kellon in the above article is very instructive:

As a final point, it should be mentioned that disease states can greatly interfere with interpretation of
hair mineral patterns. In a study of women with osteoporosis, high hair magnesium correlated with
poor bone mineral density and low blood magnesium. The high hair magnesium alone would have been
very misleading. I had a case myself several years back where hair mineral analysis showed an
extremely low iron and she was indeed anemic but blood iron and transferrin saturation were very high.
The hair mineral pattern would have dictated iron supplementation but her problem was actually a very
low copper, confirmed by blood copper levels, but hair copper was normal.



Because you have had to move off of balanced cubes without addressing deficiencies, Copper and zinc will liely be overwhelmed by the iron and maybe manganese you are feeding.


There are many messages in the message archives on copper deficiency anemia.  Here's  a quick one:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/144772

 

For others who may be interested in this topic, Dr Kellon also offers a short course on anemia.

There are many, many physiological differences between humans and equines and you will hear them described here every day and in the FILES, in the message archives, the proceedings, the ecirhorse web site. Before making assumptions the ECIR Group cautions members to double check.  It came mean a huge difference in the health of your horse.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Invest in the health of your horse and help ECIR Group nonprofit at the same time! Hear Drs Kellon, Bowker and more, in eight hours of great info and informative Q&A from 2013 NO Laminitis! Conference.

Conference Proceedings & Recordings

 




---In EquineCushings@..., <drkellon@...> wrote :



 


= = = = = = = = = = = =

I know H2 blockers can cause mineral malabsorption in humans so assume
it will in equines too.

That's not a safe assumption since horses have some very significant differences from humans in how they absorb minerals.  In any case, reductions have only been demonstrated for calcium and magnesium and those are very small amounts:

http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343%2808%2900787-0/abstract

 

There are no cases of iron deficiency/iron deficiency anemia related to acid suppression.  I'm sure if that was happening it would have been noticed by now.

There has never been a reported case of iron deficiency in an adult horse, even with blood loss.  Since the average horse has at least 10 times  more stored iron than needed to prevent anemia (and IR horses much more), that's not too surprising.

 Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001
 


Re: Anemia of Chronic Disease

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 


--In EquineCushings@..., <bmeyer@...> wrote :

Ranitidine 900 mg. x 3 for 2 years now I believe.

That's a low dose.  Should be 6.6 mg/kg so for 500 lb would be 227.2 x 6.6 = 1500 mg x 3.  Even at that dose the effect on gastric ulcers is less than when using omeprazole so it is questionable how much this is actually doing.

Effects of treatment with omeprazole or ranitidine on gastric squamous ulceration in racing Thoroughbreds.

  = = = = = = = = = = = =

I know H2 blockers can cause mineral malabsorption in humans so assume
it will in equines too.

That's not a safe assumption since horses have some very significant differences from humans in how they absorb minerals.  In any case, reductions have only been demonstrated for calcium and magnesium and those are very small amounts:

http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343%2808%2900787-0/abstract

There are many, many other studies on this.

Plus, these effects are seen with the proton pump inhibitors, NOT H2 blockers like ranitidine:

Proton-Pump Inhibitors and Hypomagnesemic Hypoparathyroidism — NEJM

 

There are no cases of iron deficiency/iron deficiency anemia related to acid suppression.  I'm sure if that was happening it would have been noticed by now.

There has never been a reported case of iron deficiency in an adult horse, even with blood loss.  Since the average horse has at least 10 times  more stored iron than needed to prevent anemia (and IR horses much more), that's not too surprising.

 Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: Approved IR feeds list

Lorna Cane
 



Hi Beverly,

>Any thoughts Lorna? 

If you haven't tried this, I would give her half of her usual meal. I think I've mentioned this before.
It sounds counter-intuitive but I have first-hand experience with a horse for whom this worked.
It can also work with people,as I'm sure you know.

See if she cleans it up, or if she leaves half, or at least some amount.

Compare the amount she leaves when she gets only half at first sitting,and see what you conclude.
I don't mean to feed *just* half for that meal,period.
I mean offer her half first,see what she does,*then* offer her (fresh bowl) the other half.You can save whatever she left on first serving ,add it to what she may leave on second serving,and compare to how much she leaves when fed the undivided meal.
Should tell you something.

If she doesn't like a meal more than 2 hours old is it because it gets cold? Rhetorical question.
If so, try adding some warm water to it just before serving.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup




Re: Best tapewormer for cushings horse

Kerry Isherwood
 

Praziquantel is a different dewormer than pyrantel (aka Strongid)

For internal parasites other than tapeworms, it is ideal to have your vet run a fecal egg count to identify if your horse actual has parasites and to determine the best targeted product for the worm load (if any). That way you do not have to overuse dewormers if your horse truly does not need them.

Over the course of my PPID mare's life i determined she was a 'low-shedder' of strongyles (ie, had very good parasite resistance) that despite extensive travelling, showing, stress, etc. she rarely tested positive for parasites (12+ months). I still used praziquantel on a schedule as per my vet to treat tapeworms bc theres not a reliable test for them, but bc of the negative fecal tests for thd rest of the parasite spectrum, I did not need to deworm (ie, introduce unnecessary medicine/chemicals to my mare, and I saved a few bucks)

Of course, as her PPID progressed, she classically became less resistant to parasite burdens and now I find I have to deworm more frequently. But I still use fecal egg count tests to determine if I need to deworm (occ she is negative still!), what to use, etc rather than deworming blindly w/o knowing if I even need to.

Kerry, LVT
Licensed Vet Tech (NY)
Pinky Sept 2014
Tofurky Nov 2014


Re: Best tapewormer for cushings horse

lj friedman
 

Dr Kellon replied to my recent question on tapes

Can also use two doses of double dose pyrantel pamoate, two weeks apart.

Eleanor
www.drkellon.com
 
 

The pdf file says to be careful using praziquantel bec of insulin spikes. etc.  For those that must treat tapes  2 x a year, by using equimax. are there alternatives other than daily use wormers?  I use ivermectin montlhy except for equimax 2 x a year for tapes.. any thoughts? lj friedman san diego nov 2014


TB With very mild symptoms

spottedgudgeon@...
 

Hi I am interested to know if a 12yo TB on good basic diet and well cared for could be getting symptoms of PPID. He has had an eye infection recently and will not gain topline even though owner is following advice and feeding ad lib hay,  mineral balanced diet and even Lysine. I imagine a blood test would not show much. Any suggestions for other things to look for?

thanks
Fleur


Help with Trim

Suzanne Mansolilli
 

Monty has now had 5 trims spaced 4 weeks apart since Linda first did mark-ups.  I showed my farrier the mark-ups and her written explanation of our goals at the first trim and was present for the next two.  I am now away for the winter and my farrier has trimmed him on his own for the last 2 trims.  I asked him to take sole shots which I uploaded so we can get some feedback. 


I apologize for the photos, I didn't explain in detail how to take them.  Please let me know if you need better pics.


Many thanks,


SuzanneM and Monty

Western Colorado -- July, 2014

Case History:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/SuzanneM & Monty/

Photos:  ECHistory8


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