Re: Swellings under the tail - repost.


Hi, Beverly - The most likely answer is fat pads.  They don't look like the fat pads Maggie had - those were on the underside of the tail itself.  However,  I think the IR fat pads can show up in different places on different horses (besides the usual above the eye area, rump, sheath etc)

Get your vet to have a look next time he/she is out there (but I wouldn't call the vet just for those funny lumps) If they are related to IR, they should subside as her other fat pads subside, once things improve.

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC 09
ECIR mod/support



Would love advice on these swellings under Ginger's tail. .....

Re: PPID 11 year old gelding with lyme dease ( Question on Trim )


Hi, Corinne - Gads, it makes it so difficult when Jasper has these drug reactions.  May I ask what form of oral doxycycline you are using, and where you get it from?

 I am just wondering if the type of formulation is contributing to his colic issues.


Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC 09
ECIR mod/support

---In EquineCushings@..., <sassafrass45@...> wrote :

Hi Lavinia 

Thank you,i'll plan on 4 months of doxy for him then just to be safe....

Re: PPID 11 year old gelding with lyme dease ( Question on Trim )

corrine haffner

Hi Lavinia 

Thank you,i'll plan on 4 months of doxy for him then just to be safe, will need to get more of the supplement also.  Did you get a chance to look at new hoof pictures i emailed after he was trimmed?? He blew out abcesses on both fronts. Is currently dead lame on both fronts as of this morning.

Corrine and Jasper
in minnesota 4/2014

Hay test


 I have my hay test back, yes it is a grab sample not a bore.  tried to load it up with wisky's history but didn't get it right what would you like me to do with it?




Re: Prebiotics/Probiotics

Nancy C

Hi Leslie

Thanks for disclosing that you are a dealer for this product.

EquiPiride has been discussed here several times.   In the plus column, it has high Copper and Zinc.  These two trace minerals are deficient in most hays and huge for hoof and skin health. It will not balance the major minerals though and in fact the high copper and zinc could be negated by the added high manganese in highly available forms.

Manganese and iron compete for binding sites and as a result excess manganese can precipitate higher iron stores in the tissues. Many many hays already have excess manganese in addition to high iron.  See more about Iron overload and IR at the link below my signature.

Most horses on a forage based diet do not need prebiotics.  That all horses need prebiotics because the pH is not adequate to digest starch is misleading. The manufacturer compares the horse's ability to digest starch to those of other animals.  IR horses especially need a low esc and starch intake.

Good that the carrier is flax, recommended on ECIR. Pea meal helps with amino acids; we recommend split peas.  A lot of folks here use Distillers Dried Grains.

Appreciate that you are sharing your personal experience. That does make a difference, however the foundation of the ECIR group requires info beyond general "it worked for me" recommendations.  If you were speaking to IR or PPID horses in your care, we'd want to know how the diagnosis was made, what horse keeping routines (meds, feeds, work)  were taking place prior to switching to EquiPride, was the hay tested, what other changes were made in terms of feet, exercise, etc., in the form of a case history.

Because your horses are not PPID or IR, though, we need to discuss the above on ECHorsekeeping. 

Here's the link to ECHorsekeeping
EquineCushings & IR - Off Topic Issues


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

FACT: With knowledge of the nutrient profile of the forage and the animal's weight and level of work, one can supplement only what is needed to target nutritional needs.  See  Smithey and Gustafson, Nutrition Complexities and Mineral Profiles of Hay 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.


Re: PPID 11 year old gelding with lyme dease ( question on how long to treat )

Lavinia Fiscaletti

Obviously, no IV for him.

Definitely need to plan to treat 3-4 months this time as 30 days is definitely not enough. Would also say that with his history of colic and ulcers that you should plan to remain on Dr. Kellon's suggested protocol for the entire time.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

Re: PPID 11 year old gelding with lyme dease ( question on how long to treat )

corrine haffner


OOPS i looked back at vet records this is his 8th relapse since 2013. After 3rd relapse and going into shock with IV oxytet,he's only been treated with oral doxy for 30 days.

Corrine and Jasper
in Minnesota 4/2014



Hi Everyone,

While I do not have a Cushing's horse, I did want to share that research is showing the benefits of prebiotics and probiotics for humans and animals.

I began using a product called, "Equipride," that I purchased at my local feed store, and saw immediate benefits in my herd. I had a couple of horses with issues that concerned me. A paint gelding that had colicked three times in 2 months. He stays out in pasture. Another TB gelding rescue, older,that was a hard keeper, had arthritis issues from his former Grand Prix jumping career, and developed diarrhea.

I looked at the ingredients, and was impressed. I purchased the product, and saw immediate improvement in both situations. No more colic, and no more diarrhea. The TB put on weight, and hoof quality improved. 

I put the entire herd on the product, and love the results. 

If you do research on the benefits of prebiotics and probiotics, you realize that the health of the gut is critical.When the digestive process is not optimal, many negative effects occur.

The Equipride product allows the horse's body to absorb nutrients more effectively, which also helps meds works more effectively.

You can visit the corp web site:

I am only servicing central TX, but the site has dealers all over the U.S.

I truly believe in the product, and there are many testimonials avail on the site also.

Thank you, and hope this helps.

Leslie Wetzel

Savvy Horsemanship Rescue

FB: Savvy Horsemanship Rescue, and Equipride In Central Texas

Re: PPID 11 year old gelding with lyme dease ( question on how long to treat )

corrine haffner


When he was fist sick with lyme he was treated with 5 days IV oxytet then 30 days oral doxy. This is his 4th time relapsing with lyme. Did IV oxytet 2nd time he was sick think 2 or 3 days into it he went into to shock,so had to stop doing IV. Tried IV oxytet again 3rd time when he was sick went into shock right away so haven't done the IV oxytet since,was done by vet not me. All times he was sick, was only on 30 days worth of doxy. 

Every time we treated for lyme dease had issues with colic and ulcers and going off feed.Most vets up here only do 5 days oxytet and 28 to 30 days oral doxy. 
So i'll need to get more doxy to treat him longer then 30 days,guessing another 3 months worth then. 

Another question do i keep doing supplement Dr kellon recomended for the 4 months of treatment?? 

Corrine And Jasper
in Minnesota 4/2014

Re: PPID 11 year old gelding with lyme dease ( question on how long to treat )

Lavinia Fiscaletti

Hi Corinne,

Is this the second time he is being treated for the Lyme? His case history notes he was "very sick" with Lyme in June 2013. How long was he treated then and with what?

With my boys, we went 1 month IV oxy-tet followed by 3 months oral doxy with good results. If this was one of mine, I would really plan on 3-4 months treatment, esp. if this is the second time around.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

Re: Double checking ALCAR dose per Dr K

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

The 5 grams is the size of the scoop, not actual weight of ALCar.  Yes, you need to give 3 1/3 scoops.

Eleanor in PA
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001

PPID 11 year old gelding with lyme dease ( question on how long to treat )

corrine haffner


So jaspers been on supplement Dr Kellon recomended for 3 days prior to starting him back on doxy,today he's back on doxy. Doing supplement prior to dosing with doxy,likes supplement hates doxy. He's improved with just supplement colic's pretty much stopped, had a little colic episode last night.  Seems fine this morning, and eating pretty good now.

So my question is how long do i treat him with doxy 30 days? or do i need to treat longer?  


Corrine and Jasper

In Minnesota  4/2014

Double checking ALCAR dose per Dr K

Kerry Isherwood

Need to double check ALCAR amt b/c Uckele package is a bit vague. Dose recommended by Dr Kellon for my horse is 1g ALCAR/100lbs = 10g (1,000-lb horse). (Note this recommendation is for an IR horse but not specifically for direct IR issues; is for another issue horse has)

Uckele ALCAR (single ingredient) package declares it is 3g ALCAR per 1 scoop, which is 5g. The vague part (for me) is that on another section of package it states '1 scoop = 5 grams' but doesnt designate 'what' the 5 grams are? Is it just, again, reiterating the size of the scoop? I just want to be sure the recommended dose given above, is indeed 3 1/3 scoops of the product (= 10g active ingredient).

Thank you!
Kerry in NY
Pinky Sept 14
Tofurky Nov 14

Re: Lab tests for checking dosage

Nancy C

Hi Merle

Do you mean response to pergolide to make sure PPID is under control?

If so, you want to check ACTH, non-fasting.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
FACT: To diagnose IR, the ECIR Group recommends a non-fasted, simple blood draw for serum insulin, glucose and leptin and the use of VA Polytechnic Proxies. See E. M. Kellon, VMD, Diagnosis of Insulin Resistance and PPID, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings,

---In EquineCushings@..., <mktnr3@...> wrote :

What lab tests should be done to check response to medication?


Merle and Camelot, NE Texas, Dec 2014

Re: IR horse - help with crest




Not sure if I'm posting the link to the case history I just created correctly?

Danielsville PA



To quickly find information in the files use the ECIR Files Table of Content

Note: the above link takes you to a Dropbox document containing the latest PDF version of the TOC.


The ECIR Table of Contents (TOC) lists all documents in the all ECIR Groups Files sections. Case Histories, Hay Analysis, Member Work Sheets and Photos have been excluded.  In the TOC you will also find "Also See" sections linking to information that cannot be found in the files. 

Links to the ECIR files go to folders, not the exact documents.  Therefore after clicking you'll have to scroll through the folder to find and open the specific document you are looking for.

File inquiries, comments, suggestions, reports of broken links or missing documents can be sent to LeeAnne at ECIR.Archives <at> gmail <dot> com or posted in the ECIR Group.

Many of the ECIR Groups' files are in PDF format requiring Adobe Reader to view them. Get a free version here

Some files are in Microsoft Excel format. Get a free reader here

If you have difficulty opening files, contact the EquineCushings-owner@ 

Thank you for your cooperation.

Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Teams of the Equine Cushings Lists​​

Re: pasture for a cushings horse

Lorna Cane

Hi K,

If you do an Archive Search one of the message addressing this topic is from Dr. Kellon.

  Lorna in Ontario,Canada

ECIR Moderator 2002

*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*

> So does IR predispose to PPID? 


Re: pasture for a cushings horse


What about the other way around? Does IR necessarily mean PPID? From what I can remember (I have been with Teshan 20yrs) my girl has had issues with weight ever since she turned 5. She has always been on grass in many different places, and has always had a tendancy to put on weight in 'diet' no grass yards or on low fat and sugar diets. I dont have everything in her current field notes but Im going to go back through agistment records and find more detail on these incidents. I know the stud boss had trouble managing her weight when she was pregnant.
 So does IR predispose to PPID? 

Re: Bute and vaccine site reaction


LJ and everyone,
If you are afraid of a severe reaction how about doing a risk/ benefit analysis for each immunization? Do you really need X , Y and Z or is Z the one that only REALLY needs to be given.  My mare had a horrific reaction 2 years ago and I am in the same boat.  I will be discussing titters w/ my vet to help in the decision process.  Hate this part!
Nancy and Jazzi
March 2013
San Diego County

Swellings under the tail - repost.

beverly meyer

Would love advice on these swellings under Ginger's tail. They are soft and do not appear to be painful or disturb the passing of manure.

First noticed maybe 6 weeks ago...  But these may predate that.

Thanks for any insight!  Are they maybe fat pads??  She still has fat pads on her rump and high Insulin from last blood.

Beverly 6/14

Beverly Texas 

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