Date   

Re: Can basic minerals go bad?

Sue
 

Hi  Everyone,

I have tried a number of times to copy and paste his history to this conversation without success.  His history is in ECHistory 3 under Business Image I hope that helps.

Sue and Busy
October 2010
Kingston ON


Can basic minerals go bad?

Sue
 

Hi Everyone,

My horse Busy, has gone off his mineral supplement blend that I make to balance his hay.  This isn't the first time but it has got me wondering why which has led me to this question.

 Could  one of this mineral ingredients be bad/off/rancid, could this be the reason that he isn't eating it?

 Most of the minerals that I get don't have an expiration date.  The flax that I use is Equigold may be the culprit.  Although I store it in the fridge at home, the feed store can get very hot during the summer and the bag usually has yellow oil on the outside. There is no expiration date on the bag. Does anyone know what ground flax smell like when it is rancid.  I just opened a new bag that I think was older as it was the last one they had and it smells like linseed oil, does anyone know?  
The salt and the Vitamin E shouldn't  be the problem.   I get my other minerals from Horsetech and they are dated.  Can I use them past the expiration date and if so how long after.  I find 2 kg of copper and zinc last a long time and sometimes I don't need a mineral for a season like calcium carbonate.  Some of the minerals that I get like biotin and Mag oxide I get from the feed store but they don't have a date on them and are exposed to the air and light.  But it is easy to get and cheap.

My process so far started with going back to just the emergency diet of Flax, salt and Vitamin E, I though if it was the flax then he wouldn't eat it but he did.  Then I thought that it was the phosphorous  (61.5 grams Horsetech apple flavoured) which is more than I have ever had to give him by a lot, so I cut that back even though I know it will compromise the balance but I needed to know if that was the problem.  He has been hit and miss so it does make a difference but I think it may be something else  too any suggestions? 

I have included what he gets because I can't seem to find it in his history. Sorry.

These are mixed into soaked ODTB cubes top-dressed with  1/2 cup of ground split peas which he scraps off the top.

In the mineral mix is:
Selenium 1 gram
Copper 1.06 grams ( 135mg of Cu from 12.7%poly copper)
Zinc 1.8 grams  ( 395 mg of Z from 22% poly zinc)
Lysine 10 grams
Magnesium - 21 grams (12 grams of magnesium from 56% mag ox)
Phosphorous 61.5 grams (16 grams from Phos. from 26% monosodium phosphate)
Biotin - 50 grams ( 220mg /kg)
Salt - 3 Tbsp.
Flax - 1/4 cup
Whey protein Isolate - 40 grams

Any suggestions would be good I am wasting an enormous amount of ODTB cubes when he doesn't eat his stuff.

Sue and Busy
Kingston, ON
October 2010


hay analyzing assistent in Cananda

susanna Widrig
 

Hi, I am new in this group and not very good at figuring out those yahoo groups…so I apologize if I am asking something I should have easily found in the files. I have read as many files as I could.

I do not have a Cushing horse at the moment as my old guy died this winter, but I am a small training stable with a bunch of Icelandic's and other easy keepers. I know we are in a high iron/ no selenium area and I would like to balance there minerals according to the hay and later grass. 


I have done the analyzing and would now need help with results. I did find the file with all the qualified people to help, but I was wondering if any of them are in Canada, as this would make it a bit easier for me to pay that person. If not, no big deal, but if there is I was wondering if somebody could point me towards that person.


Thanks in advance,

Susanna Widrig

ps.I am located in QC.


Prascend Experiences and Reporting to the FDA

Nancy C
 

*** Prascend Experiences 

Anxiety is running high over the claim that 1 to 3  mg  of Prascend (average size horse) will work as well as any dose of compounded pergolide. 

The value of this group lies heavily in members reporting their experiences. We now have nearly 30 reports in this file. 

If you have any information to share about Prascend, either dosage related or side effects, good or bad, please send your story to one of the ECIR Group moderators: 


Lorna Cane <briars@...> Jaini Clougher <merlin5clougher@...> Nancy Collins <threecatfarm@...>. Eleanor Kellon VMD <drkellon@...

Your file will be uploaded to the Prascend Experiences File. If you prefer to not have your name used, the moderators will protect your identity. 

All members may read about fellow member experiences here

<https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/%201%20A%20a%20Prascend%20Experiences/>


*** Reporting Adverse Reactions and Ineffective Drugs or Supplements to the FDA  

Failure to respond to the recommended dose is an adverse event that should be reported to FDA as a therapeutic failure.  Evidence of failure to respond can be comprised of observation of clinical signs (lack of change in symptoms) or through blood work.

Information on how to contact the FDA may be found here. 


Reports become part of the permanent Adverse Drug Experience records.



Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Teams of the Equine Cushing’s and Insulin Resistance Yahoo group





How to find things in the ECIR Group. Save this post.

Nancy C
 

We have a lot of new members.   Learning to navigate Yahoo, especially NEO, takes a bit of work. Once you have it though, the resource is invaluable. If you are trying to find a particular file or topic discussion, and having trouble, please speak up. You are not alone and by asking you will help others.

There’s so much info here, the links below can help you negotiate the learning
curve and find background to questions and issues:

** DDT+E - Diagnosis, Diet, Trim plus Exercise - What is it?


Once at the above page, click on the list to the left for even more detail.

****START HERE folder.  Similar to above but also has other great files. including how to start a Case History.


** What blood testing do I need for diagnosis?



** How to get help with Mineral Balancing



** How to search the FILES sections for documents with NEO.  You must be a member to do this. Go to the FILES section via the web page


At the top of your browser window, look for the SEARCH FILES WINDOW and enter your search word(s).  Try Diagnosis, for example.  All docs with diagnosis in them will appear.  In this case DDT Diagnosis, diagnosing Insulin Resistance, IR Pony Field Study, Low Dose Dex test and more all came up. Click on the Topic heading to open the document.


** Archived Messages - How to Search this treasure trove of information and
history in the NEW NEO format


** Current Case History filing cabinet accepting new member info.  You must join this History group just like you did in the main ECIR Yahoo group.


Links to ALL Case History Sites  (Scroll down to  Links to ECIR History Sites.pdf) 


***What you need to do to get hoof help. How to get good pictures.


Like us on Facebook!


*** Donate to the ECIR Group Inc.  nonprofit!



Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Teams of the Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Yahoo group


REMEMBER: If you get an error message when clicking on a link or tiny URL, check your BROWSER WINDOW and remove pets. from the URL. You may also need to clean your Cache/history.

We know this is an extra step when you are in high anxiety.  Hang in there.  It gets easier. 

If you are lost, speak up.



CASE HISTORIES: WHY THEY ARE IMPORTANT

ThePitchforkPrincess@...
 

Your horse's Case History is the most important step to be completed upon joining the ECIR List. A well filled out and up-to-date Case History is critical for obtaining timely and relevant advice from the volunteers. 

Provide as much information as possible but please follow the directions in the headers. There are sections to enter data on physical symptoms, diet, exercise, blood tests, owner observations, past veterinary care or anything that you feel may be relevant to your horse's condition. If it is your first time filling out a case history please follow the directions in the Guidelines for Filling out Case Histories. You can also consult the Example Form to understand how the information should be presented so that it flows and does not become a puzzle for volunteers to decipher. 

Please use standard units of measurement. To ensure the usefulness of your blood work results, be sure to include the type of units used by the lab and the lab's normal ranges. This will not only help the volunteers to help your horse, but will provide scientific data to help the ECIR group gain the trust of science-based equine professionals and shape future protocols.

Don't delay posting your case history if you are missing some pieces, it can be updated when you have the information you are still gathering. However, the faster your case history is up and completed, the faster you will receive support from the Volunteers or Dr. Kellon.

Link to additional information about your horse. Links within your case history that take volunteers to photos, videos, x-rays, specific messages in the ECIR groups or other sources of information can help support staff better understand your horse's situation. This means you and your horse will benefit from answers faster. 

Include your case history link when posting questions in the group so volunteers can find your information quickly and easily and your question can be answered more quickly.

Please leave all of your information posted when the time comes that you or your horse no longer needs the ECIR List's advice.  There is no better way to “give back” to the group for the help you and your horse have received.  Your horse's information will be used in the future to confirm or help form ECIR protocols and following your story will help other members find answers for their horses.  An often overlooked but very important way to thank you the ECIR Group, is to add your information to the databases and polls.  These are vital to gathering important data to help Dr. Kellon form protocols. 

 

Foms, an example and instructions for posting Case Histories can be found here.


Thank you for your cooperation.

Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Teams of the Equine Cushings Lists



Re: Please help me find this article!

Kerry Isherwood
 

Maggie,

Thanks so much -- turns out I just couldn't open it on my phone and it was making me nuts.  Had to trek over to the "Big Computer" as my 6yo calls it.  Thanks!  One more arrow in the quiver....

Kerry


Re: Please help me find this article!

Maggie
 

Hi Kerry,

I just bet you are a member if IVIS.  http://www.ivis.org/home.asp   If not, it's free to join.  If so, search for "No Laminitis" and you will get the proceedings from the 2013 No Laminitis Conference.  It's also on our website in PDF format for free:  http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/conference-proceedings-recordings/2013-proceedings-recordings-table-of-contents   Scroll down until you find the one you are looking for.

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA 


Please help me find this article!

Kerry Isherwood
 

A snippet from a mod from a recent post:


....."Have a read on our website of the free pdf from the 2013 No Laminitis Conference, Dr. Kellon's presentation on mares with diet-resistant IR..."

------------
I've looked everywhere and cant find the above. Would someone kindly direct me?

My mare, who has been doing so, so well thru winter, was the tiniest--almost infinitesimal--bit reluctant walking downhill yesterday. It may be bc it was the first warm day (near 60F), or bc shes due for a trim, but it was just enough to jolt me back to the research dept (interestingly, my other IR horse, an 8yo gelding, was the tiniest bit funky as well--horses were ridden together, by my trainer & I) so Im wondering if there was an environmental trigger to a possible insulin spike--the rather sudden warm weather? There were no other diet/husbandry changes or stressors. Im drawing blood this weekend to send out Monday morn just to check.

In the meantime, will someone kindly direct me to the article referenced above?

Thanks so much,
Kerry in NY
Pinky Sept 2014
Tofurky Nov 2014


Hilton Easy Mare Calming Supplement or Wendals Herbs 28-day Moody Mare Calming Supplement

Heather Leonard
 

I have a IR mare that I am thinking of putting on a supplement to help balance out her heat cycles.  I am looking at Hilton Easy Mare Calming Supplement and Wendals Herbs 28-day Moody Mare Calming Supplement.  I was wondering if both or either are safe for IR horses.  If they are, has anyone used them?  Good results?  Is one better than the other?

Thanks!

Heather
Mass 2000


Re: New hoof photos, opinions on why so sore??

Tiffany Woodward
 

And should I take her off jiaogulan at this point?  It was helping but I'm not sure that it's doing anything right now.


Tiffany in NC

Nov. 2014

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/TiffanyWoodward%20and%20Maggie/

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/540173897

 


Re: New hoof photos, opinions on why so sore??

Tiffany Woodward
 

Lavinia,

I am hoping that I can catch her lying down one day.  If she does lay down during the day, and that kind of depends on the day, she tends to do so between noon and 2:00....when I'm at work.  Figures.

We are leaving her in her stall, and anytime I try to work on a foot I make sure that she's wearing the Soft Ride on the weight bearing foot.  It just hasn't seemed to make much difference.  I did leave both boots off for a brief period of time today just to get a sense of how she would react.  And while she does stand fairly comfortably without them on, it's next to impossible for her to get around her stall without them.  So I guess for now they'll have to stay on.

I do have some yoga mat type of foam that I taped on her feet when she was barefoot before her boots arrived.  I can cut that up and try some of that in her boots as well.

I have been speaking with a different farrier and forwarded him x-rays and pics.  He expressed concern over everything you mentioned and that I've been observing over the last month or so.  Hoping to get something set up with him soon.  Will be getting new x-rays soon as well.

Tiffany in NC

Nov. 2014

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/TiffanyWoodward%20and%20Maggie/

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/540173897

 


Re: Nervous that Poppy is at the edge of an Emergency: Help and advice for Poppy Seed and Susanna

Susanna Armbruster
 

Lavinia and Dr. Kellon--
I added a recent picture of Poppy to my file. 
 
Thank you!!!

Susanna 
Red Hook, NY
March 2015
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Poppy%20Seed%20and%20Susanna/




On Thursday, April 2, 2015 3:20 PM, "Susanna Armbruster susanna_armbruster@... [EquineCushings]" wrote:


 
Dear Lavinia,
Many thanks for your response. I'm breathing easier already! Knowledge is everything . . . 

It appears that no glucose was tested - is that correct? Re-running the blood work with her having access to hay until testing time would be perfect. She can have her evening feed, just don't give her the morning feed if the vet is due within the following 4 hours. Insulin, glucose and Leptin to test for IR, ACTH if you want to get a new baseline when she isn't having stress from fasting and from sore feet. If she was mine, I wouldn't worry about the ACTH at this time but would plan to test in Sept, just in case, for the seasonal rise period.
No glucose test done. I will follow your advice on providing hay only when testing. I will also request insulin, glucose and Leptin. I'll also follow your advice about re-test the ACTH in September.

Not Dr. Kellon but that was a good, slow taper off the Thyro-L. It looks like there was no thyroid testing done and that the thyro-L was prescribed to treat Poppy for being overweight and insulin resistant.
What tapering off schedule would Dr. Kellon have advised? I'm curious because I would like to have it in my "tool box" for talking with my vet. And you are right that she was not tested for thyroid issues. When I told the vet I wanted her off the Thyro-L, she basically demanded that I show her (in Juliet Getty's book "Feed Your Horse Like A Horse") where Dr. Getty got her data. When I couldn't, she dismissed the notion that Poppy shouldn't be on the meds past 3-6 months.

Vaccinations are supposed to only be given to healthy animals (right on the manufacturers instructions with every vaccine) so her condition right now says to put the vaccinations off. 
Agreed and agreed! All three were vaccinated in November and I don't want to stress any of them with six-month boosters. 

You mention she was treated for Lyme before you got her and that a Lyme MultiPlex was done after ou got her. Do you have the results from the Lyme MultiPlex available? If not, could you get a hard copy of that test result?
Unfortunately, the only patient history paperwork I received from the first owner's vet was woefully lacking. The notes only report the three respiratory panels (nasal swab) and a fecal egg count. Nothing via the vet about Lyme. This owner has a history of self-diagnosing Lyme in her horses and treating them herself. Remarkable . . . 

It is also possible she is having some issues related to being a mare and the re-start of her cycling. Have a read on our website of the free pdf from the 2013 No Laminitis Conference, Dr. Kellon's presentation on mares with diet-resistant IR:
I wondered if it could be that as well -- hooray for my mind! :-)  I did read the pdf and it really makes sense. How long can a cycle last? 

The track system is a great way to encourage movement. Getting her diet tested and balanced will go a long way toward getting her healthy and happy. Bonus is, it will work for your entire crew. :-)
I am already seeing some muscle definition in her hind end from climbing one of the hills several times a day -- so grateful for the thaw. I'm eager to get the full hay analysis from the new hay we just purchased. In the meantime, what's the best way to have her current meals (non hay) analyzed? I don't want the Horseshine to conflict with the amount of minerals in the Spirulina. I haven't checked the files yet but imagine y'all have information for that, too! Point me in the right direction and I'll get on it.

I cannot thank you and the team enough for the amount of time you devote to this group. I am in awe of the amount of information you provide and the detail you go into with each person. It's truly remarkable. I look forward to continuing to learn from all of you.

Take care,
Susanna
Red Hook, NY
March 2015


.






Re: Another crosses the Rainbow Bridge

janieclougher@...
 

Ah, Lisa - you did the right thing. It is never easy, ever, but I am with you on the quality of life vs just length of life.  Miami was lucky to have you.

Just focus on that lovely vision, and know that he was greatly loved and now is pain free.

Sincerely,

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC 09
ECIR mod/support
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/

 



Thank you all again.  I'm very sad but I have a vision of our beloved Miami running and bucking in heaven, eating all the lush green grass that he wants and not having a care in the world.....


Lisa

Victoria, Australia


Re: Diagnosing PPID

reypunky@...
 

I don't have a long standing relationship with this vet, and  I may need a vet with more special expertise in metabolic issues, if anyone can recommend one; I am not far from New Bolton Center. 

Barbara,

Try Dr. Mark Donaldson from Unionville Equine.  Really nice guy and was involved with the ACTH seasonal rise work at New Bolton when he was a vet there. 

Vicki
SE/PA 11/02


Re: Nervous that Poppy is at the edge of an Emergency: Help and advice for Poppy Seed and Susanna

Susanna Armbruster
 

Dear Lavinia,
Many thanks for your response. I'm breathing easier already! Knowledge is everything . . . 

It appears that no glucose was tested - is that correct? Re-running the blood work with her having access to hay until testing time would be perfect. She can have her evening feed, just don't give her the morning feed if the vet is due within the following 4 hours. Insulin, glucose and Leptin to test for IR, ACTH if you want to get a new baseline when she isn't having stress from fasting and from sore feet. If she was mine, I wouldn't worry about the ACTH at this time but would plan to test in Sept, just in case, for the seasonal rise period.
No glucose test done. I will follow your advice on providing hay only when testing. I will also request insulin, glucose and Leptin. I'll also follow your advice about re-test the ACTH in September.

Not Dr. Kellon but that was a good, slow taper off the Thyro-L. It looks like there was no thyroid testing done and that the thyro-L was prescribed to treat Poppy for being overweight and insulin resistant.
What tapering off schedule would Dr. Kellon have advised? I'm curious because I would like to have it in my "tool box" for talking with my vet. And you are right that she was not tested for thyroid issues. When I told the vet I wanted her off the Thyro-L, she basically demanded that I show her (in Juliet Getty's book "Feed Your Horse Like A Horse") where Dr. Getty got her data. When I couldn't, she dismissed the notion that Poppy shouldn't be on the meds past 3-6 months.

Vaccinations are supposed to only be given to healthy animals (right on the manufacturers instructions with every vaccine) so her condition right now says to put the vaccinations off. 
Agreed and agreed! All three were vaccinated in November and I don't want to stress any of them with six-month boosters. 

You mention she was treated for Lyme before you got her and that a Lyme MultiPlex was done after ou got her. Do you have the results from the Lyme MultiPlex available? If not, could you get a hard copy of that test result?
Unfortunately, the only patient history paperwork I received from the first owner's vet was woefully lacking. The notes only report the three respiratory panels (nasal swab) and a fecal egg count. Nothing via the vet about Lyme. This owner has a history of self-diagnosing Lyme in her horses and treating them herself. Remarkable . . . 

It is also possible she is having some issues related to being a mare and the re-start of her cycling. Have a read on our website of the free pdf from the 2013 No Laminitis Conference, Dr. Kellon's presentation on mares with diet-resistant IR:
I wondered if it could be that as well -- hooray for my mind! :-)  I did read the pdf and it really makes sense. How long can a cycle last? 

The track system is a great way to encourage movement. Getting her diet tested and balanced will go a long way toward getting her healthy and happy. Bonus is, it will work for your entire crew. :-)
I am already seeing some muscle definition in her hind end from climbing one of the hills several times a day -- so grateful for the thaw. I'm eager to get the full hay analysis from the new hay we just purchased. In the meantime, what's the best way to have her current meals (non hay) analyzed? I don't want the Horseshine to conflict with the amount of minerals in the Spirulina. I haven't checked the files yet but imagine y'all have information for that, too! Point me in the right direction and I'll get on it.

I cannot thank you and the team enough for the amount of time you devote to this group. I am in awe of the amount of information you provide and the detail you go into with each person. It's truly remarkable. I look forward to continuing to learn from all of you.

Take care,
Susanna
Red Hook, NY
March 2015


.




Re: princess & sue new photos of her trim today. need feed back please

sue wolf <wolffarm4@...>
 

Thank you so much... I'm going to keeping a eye on her hoofs.. the club hoof I will take it back more this week, I know it has to come back more but its a lot on her working on the feet so I would give her a day or to off to do the touch ups.. thank you so much...
have a great Easter..
sue & princess
oh 6/11



On Thursday, April 2, 2015 1:34 PM, "shilohmom@... [EquineCushings]" wrote:


 
Hi Sue,

Took a look at the latest pictures. The regular foot (LF I believe) looks to be as low as it can be in the heel as it was just about perfect in the xray. The toe could come back a bit more. You're eye is good, that medial heel (inside one) is a tiny bit higher and the rest of that wall may be touch longer.

The club foot (RF) can have the toe backed even more and bevel it slightly under the toe. You might be able to lower the heels just a tad bit more but they are close. That is doesn't smell as bad is a good thing. All that rotten wedge area does show up in the xray from Feb so the more air it gets and the more of it that is removed, the better.

Good job.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team



Photos of Optimum Hoof Trim

Larks Tabatha
 

Hi Lavinia...


I am hopeful you may be able to refer me to some photos of horse's hoofs that have been trimmed correctly with toes back and heels lowered, that I would like to be able to share with my trimmer when he comes out this Sunday so that we both have a better idea what we are looking to achieve.  Tried a Search in the Photos section, but did not come up with anything.


Thanks very much,

Sally Stults in N.AZ

April 2013



Re: Nervous that Poppy is at the edge of an Emergency: Help and advice for Poppy Seed and Susanna

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Susanna,

Thanks for putting up the narrative for Poppy. Here is the link to your case history, helps enormously if you include it with your posts:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Poppy%20Seed%20and%20Susanna/

Not Dr. Kellon but that was a good, slow taper off the Thyro-L. It looks like there was no thyroid testing done and that the thyro-L was prescribed to treat Poppy for being overweight and insulin resistant.

Her insulin makes her very IR - not a surprise as she is a mini. The ACTH is within normal limits and as she is only 8yo PPID (Cushings) is not a likely problem. That is was done fasting means it is likely even higher.

It appears that no glucose was tested - is that correct? Re-running the blood work with her having access to hay until testing time would be perfect. She can have her evening feed, just don't give her the morning feed if the vet is due within the following 4 hours. Insulin, glucose and Leptin to test for IR, ACTH if you want to get a new baseline when she isn't having stress from fasting and from sore feet. If she was mine, I wouldn't worry about the ACTH at this time but would plan to test in Sept, just in case, for the seasonal rise period.

Vaccinations are supposed to only be given to healthy animals (right on the manufacturers instructions with every vaccine) so her condition right now says to put the vaccinations off.

You mention she was treated for Lyme before you got her and that a Lyme MultiPlex was done after ou got her. Do you have the results from the Lyme MultiPlex available? If not, could you get a hard copy of that test result?

It is also possible she is having some issues related to being a mare and the re-start of her cycling. Have a read on our website of the free pdf from the 2013 No Laminitis Conference, Dr. Kellon's presentation on mares with diet-resistant IR:

http://www.ecirhorse.org/index.php/conference-proceedings-recordings/2013-proceedings-recordings-table-of-contents

The track system is a great way to encourage movement. Getting her diet tested and balanced will go a long way toward getting her healthy and happy. Bonus is, it will work for your entire crew.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: princess & sue new photos of her trim today. need feed back please

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Sue,

Took a look at the latest pictures. The regular foot (LF I believe) looks to be as low as it can be in the heel as it was just about perfect in the xray. The toe could come back a bit more. You're eye is good, that medial heel (inside one) is a tiny bit higher and the rest of that wall may be touch longer.

The club foot (RF) can have the toe backed even more and bevel it slightly under the toe. You might be able to lower the heels just a tad bit more but they are close. That is doesn't smell as bad is a good thing. All that rotten wedge area does show up in the xray from Feb so the more air it gets and the more of it that is removed, the better.

Good job.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

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