Date   

Re: j herb precautions..

lj friedman
 

how do i pull up #81238?  ( I tired and it only shows your post. not the original   lj friedman


Re: updating info on file

Maggie
 

Hi Karen,

Try this.  Rename your updated CH on your hard drive--something different than you used the first time, like "Bay Lady CH updated" or whatever you want to use.  Then go back to your folder in ECH8 and "upload" (little purple rectangle towards the top right of screen)  that file to your folder.  If you want to delete your old CH after you upload the new one, you can.  I just left mine in there when I updated mine, but LeeAnne may have other advice.  I will ask her to chime in here.  
Also, I noticed that there is a stray file in your folder, for Michelle Cameron's Elijah.  Just ignore that and I will ask LeeAnne to take a look and see what's going on with that.

Hope that solves your issue!

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/ 




Re: j herb precautions..

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Lj,

When you check the archived messages for Jiaogulan and tranquilizers message #81238 comes up with Dr. Kellon's response to your question.  To see the question the member asked go to #81238


I would take her off 48 hours before her appointment. All 
tranquilizer/sedative drugs have blood pressure lowering effects to 
some degree.

Eleanor


Most of the questions we members  think of  when we first join or as time goes on have been asked and answered over the years so there is a wealth of information in the Files and archived messages.   Starting your search first in these places often gets you a response that fits your scenario.

Hope this helps,


Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI  10/12





Re: updating info on file

kansteen5545@...
 

Hi Maggie -
Sorry - I can't seem to update my folder on ECH8. I got it filled out - saved it to my hard drive - but when I clicked on my folder name - I never saw an "Add File" anywhere. I tried clicking on various things and got to a screen that asked for folder name and then said: "Save" - which I did but then nothing happened - and I couldn't find the updated file anywhere anyway!
Help!
Karen/ME/2014
neo/groups/echistory8/files/Karen%20and%20Bay%20Lady/




---- "kansteen5545@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

Hi Maggie -
Noooo - I didn't do that - but I will! Thanks!
Karen
ME/2014
---- "spiral1957@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
Hi Karen

Did you update and save it on your hard drive and then "upload" it to your folder?


ECIR FILES - SEARCH-AND-CLICK TABLE OF CONTENTS

ThePitchforkPrincess@...
 

To quickly find information in the files use the ECIR Files Table of Content

Note: the above link takes you to a Dropbox document containing the latest PDF version of the TOC.

 

The ECIR Table of Contents (TOC) lists all documents in the all ECIR Groups Files sections. Case Histories, Hay Analysis, Member Work Sheets and Photos have been excluded.  In the TOC you will also find "Also See" sections linking to information that cannot be found in the files. 

Links to the ECIR files go to folders, not the exact documents.  Therefore after clicking you'll have to scroll through the folder to find and open the specific document you are looking for.


File inquiries, comments, suggestions, reports of broken links or missing documents can be sent to LeeAnne at ECIR.Archives <at> gmail <dot> com or posted in the ECIR Group.

Many of the ECIR Groups' files are in PDF format requiring Adobe Reader to view them. Get a free version here


Some files are in Microsoft Excel format. Get a free reader here

If you have difficulty opening files, contact the EquineCushings-owner@ yahoogroups.com 

Thank you for your cooperation.

Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Teams of the Equine Cushings Lists​​



Re: J herb

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Equioxx not Equicox. 

Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI  10/12


---In EquineCushings@..., <kathbrink@...> wrote :

Hi Lj,

You need to start by knowing what Previcox is and why it was suggested to be prescribed to Jesse.   I did a web search on previcox and found the information below in the second link on the Valley Vet Pet Pharmacy site.   The product description tells you it is a NSAID and it, also, tells you it is prescribed for dogs.  In the archived posts, you will find discussions about the horse version Equicox by the same company (Merial) and the dog version Previcox, recommended usage, side effects and suggested alternatives. You have been part of  some of these post threads. You would also have read that the cost of the horse version is pricey so if vets are agreeable to it they will prescribe Previcox to save money. 

On the J-Herb document  list of  the "following may reduce the effect of Jiaogulan and should be avoided; you found NSAIDs listed, correct?  "NSAIDs (bute, Banamine, etc,)  Previcox is one of the etc.

If your next question is  about using Previcox vs Equicox read the first link below. 

Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI  10/12




http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=299&A=3263&S=0&EVetID=3004125

 

Previcox for Dogs Merial ( - Pet Pharmacy (Rx) - Arthritis, Pain Inflammation (Rx))

 




-


Re: J herb

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Lj,

You need to start by knowing what Previcox is and why it was suggested to be prescribed to Jesse.   I did a web search on previcox and found the information below in the second link on the Valley Vet Pet Pharmacy site.   The product description tells you it is a NSAID and it, also, tells you it is prescribed for dogs.  In the archived posts, you will find discussions about the horse version Equicox by the same company (Merial) and the dog version Previcox, recommended usage, side effects and suggested alternatives. You have been part of  some of these post threads. You would also have read that the cost of the horse version is pricey so if vets are agreeable to it they will prescribe Previcox to save money. 

On the J-Herb document  list of  the "following may reduce the effect of Jiaogulan and should be avoided; you found NSAIDs listed, correct?  "NSAIDs (bute, Banamine, etc,)  Previcox is one of the etc.

If your next question is  about using Previcox vs Equicox read the first link below. 

Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI  10/12




http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=299&A=3263&S=0&EVetID=3004125

 

Previcox for Dogs Merial ( - Pet Pharmacy (Rx) - Arthritis, Pain Inflammation (Rx))

 




-


j herb precautions..

lj friedman
 

A file shows that j herb will alter the affects of tranquilizers., etc. .  So, if a horse is going to be tranqued for a dental , would it make sense to discontinue the j herb for a few days before the procedure?  lj friedman san diegno nov 2014. 


Re: J herb

lj friedman
 

I have read all the files.. I dont see anything mentioning j herb and prevacox specifically.. perhaps someone can offer an answer or a link?  lj friedman san diego nov 2014


Re: Newly diagnosed PPID mare

tara sullivan
 

Great advice. Thank you again.  And thank you, Kerry, for the encouraging words and thoughts.  It would be great to have my ole mare back...problem is....I am so busy with the boy...ain't got time to ever really get her going again.  I need that elusive 28 hr day!

Tara NY 2015
ECHistory8

 


Re: Phyto-Quench substitute & response to Nancy

beverly meyer
 

Oops, I didn't finish my sentence before...
I meant to write - thanks Dr. Kellon. I totally agree about not adding more herbs than needed. If I read this right, you're saying that "diluting the action" might mean giving 2 herbs/substances if 1 is all that's needed, and that 2 might not be studied together as one alone is.
In Chinese Medicine we might use the term "diluting the action" slightly differently. As in, treating a "Fire" condition such as inflammation, heat and fever with cooling "Water" herbs, but then also giving a Fire herb. Which would dilute the action of the prescribed Cooling herbs!
Glad to understand the difference in meaning.
Beverly 6/14


Re: Phyto-Quench substitute & response to Nancy

beverly meyer
 

Thanks Dr. Kellon. I totally agree.
Beverly 6/14

--
Beverly Meyer, MBA
Clinical and Holistic Nutritionist
www.ondietandhealth.com
Facebook: Beverly Meyer on Diet and Health
Radio: Primal Diet - Modern Health


Re: J herb

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Lj,

Have you tried doing an archive search and/or checking the Files for information on Jiaogulan (J-Herb)?

Here is a link to the File. You will find a lot of information in the Document "Jiaogulan Doses & Precautions" which will most likely answer most of your questions and more.

Kathy Brinkerhoff
SE/WI  10/12

Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

 







Re: J herb

lj friedman
 

I asked this but not sure I got a reply yet. Can J herb be given with Prevacox and prascend?

Sent from my iPhone


Re: Mov-Ease

Nancy C
 

Hi Casey

Hope you saw Dr Kellon's response to Beverly.

Research was done by the company prior to releasing the product. Recommend you call them.

Please also see March 2011 Horse Journal for more in-the-barn testing info. I believe you can purchase back issues and/or on-line access to their library.  You could also ask the company to share the results.

Let us know what you find out.


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
FACT:  Fructans were a highly popular theory of the cause of laminitis approximately 10 years ago. See  E. M. Kellon, VMD, The Internet as an Epidemiological Tool, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 







---In EquineCushings@..., <macivor19@...> wrote :



In that vein, does anyone have information on why Mov-Ease, which has a great track record, is not indicated with quercetin, curcumin, milk thistle, boswellia, devils claw, cats claw, pine bark extract? Is this from research, anecdotal evidence, or a best guess? By whom?


Re: Phyto-Quench substitute & response to Nancy

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 




---In EquineCushings@..., <bmeyer@...> wrote :

Can anyone direct me to the studies on Quercitin or Curcumin
Bioflavonoids "diluting the action" of other bioflavonoids or herbs?

= = = = = = = = = =

The precaution not to mix certain bioflavonoids is based on the fact there are hundreds, if not more, of these chemicals in nature and their activity depends on their structure.  While structural similarities might give many different bioflavonoid compounds the ability to interact with the same enzymes or DNA, they will not all have equivalent effects.  When a compound is identified that has a particularly potent effect on a particular function, it is ridiculous to mix that with a similar chemical compound unless you know for sure the mixture will give an enhanced effect rather than a diminished one.  More often than not the effect of a combination will be unknown, hence the precaution.

To begin to understand this, start here:

http://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/content/52/4/673.long

Yellow does NOT automatically = quercitin.  Then name flavonoid (aka bioflavonoid) derives from the Latin flavus, which means yellow.  The whole class is yellow.  For example, here's rutin:

http://www.zd-bio.com/en/proview.asp?id=3

Observations (aka anecdotes) by any individual, whether you, or me, or anyone else, have limited value in their raw form. What gives them more credence is things like control of extraneous factors, statistics and sheer numbers. If you know of 20 cases where X + Y had no harmful effects compared to X or Y alone, but someone else has 200, or 2000 cases, where the combination was not as effective, what would the take home message be?  If you knew from knowledge about their structure that X and Y could bind to a particular enzyme and the effect of X was very potent but the effect of Y was unknown or weaker, would you play around with this in a clinical case?

All we are doing here is trying to share the most accurate information we have based on both over a decade of experience with horses with these conditions and the scientific literature.  If you have question or a challenge that's great, but it's up to you to back up your claim with the literature or a large equine database, not up to us to dispute it.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001
 


Mov-Ease

Casey James <macivor19@...>
 

ECIR tries very hard to base information on sound research, and if that does not exist, then on anecdotal evidence and sometimes we’re left with making a best guess. I agree with Nancy that it takes a long time for current research to filter down. I heard a talk in 1985 about MSM and the researcher said it takes about 10 years for research to go “mainstream”. Probably most of us hadn’t heard much about MSM till 1995.

In that vein, does anyone have information on why Mov-Ease, which has a great track record, is not indicated with quercetin, curcumin, milk thistle, boswellia, devils claw, cats claw, pine bark extract? Is this from research, anecdotal evidence, or a best guess? By whom? Have our members found that the good effects of Mov-Ease were lessened by using one of counter indicated substances?

I love this group; one of the reasons is that it is OK to ask questions.

casey oregon 2015


Re: Commercial minerals

Chanda
 

How many bags of Standlee pellets to you buy at a time?  When I inquired about sugar/starch levels, I was told they just do averages for their information, and if I need more specific data that I would need to test.  However, bags with the same batch number all have the same product in them, so if I buy or reserve a whole pallet, then all bags from that pallet/batch number would test the same.  [Don't know of many stores that would reserve a pallet to wait for testing results, but with as much as you are going through daily, I'm going to guess you probably buy a pallet at a time and could test from each pallet to then get minerals to balance.]

It's possible since Standlee is based in Idaho, that CA Trace ( California Trace - Nutritional Support for Horses ) or the Arizona Regional Mix from HorseTech might be a close balance for you (or you can always get custom mix, I think Horsetech does that).  If you choose to test a few batches,  you might find after doing so, that they run similar enough to use the same mineral mix for all the Standlee Timothy pellets you buy (might also find the opposite and that they vary quite a bit from batch to batch).  [P.S. most my horses love the Standlee Timothy pellets, except for my Cushing's gelding, he's incredibly picky, and can take or leave pretty much everything I try with him, although he does eat our homegrown hay readily (wish I could pellet that and try it on him).]


Chanda

MT 9/04 


Re: Phyto-Quench substitute & response to Nancy

Nancy C
 

Please allow me to add that it is not unusual to hear things on and from this group that you don't her anywhere else.  Thank the heavens.

Sometimes the research is just wrong, or poorly thought out, or making assumptions and correlations out of a belief system.

Sometimes, as with fructan vs simple sugar, or with seasonal rise, or special issues for mares, or IR itself,  or many, many other areas, the research eventually catches up to what members have reported here for years from their actual, well-tracked and recorded experiences.


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
FACT:  With over 12,000 members and thousands of detailed case histories the ECIR Group has made it possible to spot patterns, many of which have been confirmed later by formal study.  See  E. M. Kellon, VMD, The Internet as an Epidemiological Tool, 2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 







---In EquineCushings@..., <bmeyer@...> wrote :

 I cannot find any studies that say what I hear here


Re: Commercial minerals

Nancy C
 

Since the bulk of his intake is th Standlee, I would test those or try to obtain info from the company.  In order to make it effective you'd want to have a pallet or so from the same lot to which you can then balance the minerals.  IOW testing one or two bags is like testing your 50 bales of hay.

The issue with teh Standlee ismamking sure the ESC and Strach is where it needs to be.

An alternative is to use Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance Cubes. Low ESC and Starch, balanced minerals.  If you have a Triple Crown Dealer near you, you can get these.

Alfalfa Cubes / Alfalfa Timothy Cubes - Ontario Dehy Inc.

 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
FACT: Blood flow to the foot passes to the rear of the foot, providing support and dissipating vibrational energy. See RM Bowker, VMD, PhD, The Vascular Cushion Of The Frog What Does It Do?  2013 NO Laminitis! Proceedings, Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance Group Inc.

 










---In EquineCushings@..., <mktnr3@...> wrote :


He is getting 19 Lbs of Stanlee Timothy pellets and 4 Lb of Stabl 1 daily.


What should I do to balance this?




Thanks,

Merle, Dec 2014,  East Texas

ECHistory8


90041 - 90060 of 279934