Date   

Re: Teshan

Lorna Cane
 


> I will always let her graze, so theres no point arguing with me about that, ok?



I hope that works out well for her, K.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup




Re: Teshan

Judy L. Meadows <marktime@...>
 

Dear K,

I have had good results keeping my Cushings horse in a corral overnight and then turning him out with a grazing muzzle with my other horses in a two acre pasture for about 8 hours a day.  He can still graze, but doesn't get near what he would without the muzzle.  He has something to keep him occupied.  He has lost about 100 pounds since the beginning of April! :)

I use a slow feed hay bag at night, but it is not as slow as I had hoped.  I got 1.25 inch, would get 1.0 if I were doing it over.

Judy & Rudy
2014
--
Judy L. Meadows
~in the Missouri Ozarks


Re: Pain relief for very painful horse) WAS Need Help ( Jasper's really sore 8 hours after joint injections)

corrine haffner
 

Hi 

Vet knows of his ulcer issues so is fine with me trying other alternatives for pain relief,he also knows i come on the group for help. This vet i have now is willing to work with me, we talked about jasper and his issues for over an hour last night.

Thanks,
Corrine and Jasper
MN 4/2014

ECHistory8


Re: Pain relief for very painful horse) WAS Need Help ( Jasper's really sore 8 hours after joint injections)

Lorna Cane
 



>I trimmed back his toes as much as i dared,had to do it while he was down not easy to do.

Take heart,Corrine.
That's the only way I can do one of my boys.
It's not easy,but it sure beats doing nothing,IMO.

I'm glad the Banamine has given him some relief.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup





Re: sue & princess Special care grain

Judy L. Meadows <marktime@...>
 

Dear Sue,

My vet told me to feed Nutrena Safe Choice Special Care.  My greedy horse eats it, but likes his orchard grass hay better.  I give him a cup morning and night
so I can feed him his supplements.  His Remission is with the morning dose and he generally leaves it and some of the pellets.  If I put in a handful of mixed grain that I feed sparingly to the other horses he will clean the morning dose out better, but since it isn't his Pergolide, I don't worry too much about it.   At night he has salt and ground flaxseed and vitamin E with it.  He likes that better, but still prefers the hay.  He gets his 2 mg. capsule of Pergolide in an apple core or a prune.

I want to try the Mag Ox when the Remission runs out, but I fear he won't like it.  If I dampen the pellets it might stick to them.  The Remission does, but that is messy.  I'd rather find a dry way to make it palatable.  I've tried cinnamon, but that doesn't seem to make a difference.

Judy and Rudy in SWMO
2014
--
Judy L. Meadows
~in the Missouri Ozarks


Re: Pain relief for very painful horse) WAS Need Help ( Jasper's really sore 8 hours after joint injections)

corrine haffner
 

Hi 

Don't think IR, PPID horses can have anything with yucca in it,buteless has yucca,i'am pretty sure i'v read that some where on the group. He has issues with ulcers reason i don't like giving bute or banamine for any amount of time,even once is a risk. 

If i'am wrong on PPID ,IR horses not being able to have yucca someone please correct me,i'am not totally sure,i do alot of reading on here,so might be mistaken.

Thanks,
Corrine and Jasper
MN 4/2014

ECHistory8


Re: Alternates to NSAIDS, vet is coming in 2 hours

kimgedckewagner
 

Renee,

The avoidance of NSAIDS has been based on what I've learned here that they can actually decrease healing after the first few days of an episode.

This one has been smoldering for weeks, and broke free last weekend so we're a week into this, so I had thought NSAIDS were a no-no at this point.

Agreed on the vet.  She's fabulous.  Trying to be careful all the way around.

Kim and CG
New Hill NC


Re: sue & princess Special care grain

 

I had my horse on the Special Care from TSC, and he got steadily worse on it. But he's severely IR. So if your horse is severe, too, I'd not use it. It's kind of false advertising on Nutrena's part to call that line of feed "Safe Choice". Even the Special Care. 

Coral & Po
Sept 2013
Corpus Christi


Re: Alternates to NSAIDS, vet is coming in 2 hours

ReneR
 

Sometimes it's ok to use NSAID's.  Do you have a particular reason not to?

Getting a horse comfortable again sometimes has to come first in the steps to recovery.

Also - I think it's important to note that if you have a vet you like and trust, follow their advice so that they don't give up on you.  If you try something outside of the recommendation of your veterinarian, they really do not have the obligation to help you if you get in trouble.  I learned that the hard way.


Here is one option if you really do need to avoid NSAID's:

http://www.statelinetack.com/item/absorbine-bute-less-solution/E011632%20032/?srccode=GPSLT&gclid=CKqW96S2y8UCFZY0aQodrFcAuw&kwid=productads-plaid^90402265408-sku^429659-adType^PLA-device^c-adid^40184828028


Renee' in Texas

Member since 2008

ECIR Primary Responder


Re: sue & princess Special care grain

ReneR
 

I do not trust the starch levels on feed bags.  At one time, I bought one bag of 5 different feeds that were being marketed as low starch.  I sent samples of each to Equi-Analytical for analysis.  Starch levels were all above the recommendations of this group and above the levels indicated on their feed labels.

The feed I like best is NuZu Stabul 1.  It's harder to acquire but worth it.

For flavorings - Beet Root Powder and Spearmint are big hits here.  Beet Root Powder even helps the Pergolide go down!

I also have good success with Uckele's Amino Fac 41 Protein.  I have it on hand for young, growing horses.  It smells so good that I thought about using it as a flavor enhancer.  It works well.  It is a high quality protein supplement that is beneficial to horses in all categories so I sometimes add it to feed to hide supplements.  It mixes well in water and the horses love it.

Renee' in Texas

Member since 2008

ECIR Primary Responder


Re: Pain relief for very painful horse) WAS Need Help ( Jasper's really sore 8 hours after joint injections)

corrine haffner
 

Hi 

Had vet out last night,jasper is in a laminatic attack he was given IV banamine didn't take all his pain away but helped. The laminitis was caused from the joint injections,jasper can't handle any kind of steroids so i found out as did vet. Waiting on an anwser on whether or not he can be given PQ while being treated for lyme dease.

I trimmed back his toes as much as i dared,had to do it while he was down not easy to do.  Jasper can not be on any kind of NSAIDS for any amount of time,will cause ulcer flare up.  He's eating just not as much,ate his cubes and pellet mix this morning. He's still shaking this morning but the temps have dropped 36 degrees since yesteday,and he totally shed out. Its 38 degrees after being 74 yesterday and humid.

He's also standing up this morning,sure that has to due with the banamine he was given late last night.Need a better alternative for pain that wont cause ulcer flare ups. I don't currently have any APF on hand.

Thanks,
Corrine and Jasper
MN 4/2014

ECHistory8


Alternates to NSAIDS, vet is coming in 2 hours

kimgedckewagner
 

All,


Thanks for any help you can give me.  Color Guard seems to be in more pain than the past 7 days, and is now skipping his fourth meal.


Vet is coming and wants to take radiographs and is suggesting NSAIDS.


In my search of the files, I've found Devil's Claw, phytoquench and micolactin as alternatives, but I don't understand how they work.


Any alternatives?  Any coaching?  I want to have a good discussion with my very helpful vet.


Kim and CG

New Hill NC


Re: sue & princess Special care grain

chf1752@...
 

Hi Sue,

NSC is WSC+starch. Sometimes you'll see sugar and starch on a feed label. I believe if you add up the two they add up to NSC. WSC is ESC+ fructans. The group recommends looking at ESC+starch, though some horses really need to account for fructans. For these, its WSC+starch (aka sugar+starch or NSC) to look at. Mine are hypersensitive, so I personally always look at NSC. If you have a less sensitive horse, ESC+starch should be fine. 

I have a couple ideas to share with you. The first is turmeric. My horses go crazy for the stuff, to the point where I have to lock my minis away when I syringe feed supplements to my metabolic pony. They absolutely love the stuff.

I've heard good things about fenugreek seed too. Haven't tried it yet, but I should get my first batch soon.

Another idea would be to look at the picky eater file and go through that, to make sure there's nothing else going on.

Hope this helps.

Erin
ME
2014


Re: Pain relief for very painful horse) WAS Need Help ( Jasper's really sore 8 hours after joint injections)

ReneR
 

Corrine,

Do you have APF to help with the Pergolide increase?

Group - will APF be ok along with the treatment for Lyme?


This sounds like a dire situation. Going off feed, laying down most of the time, and shaking is very serious. Do you have a local vet that you trust to help you?  It is time to stop guessing as we need to know what is going on with Jasmine.  By pinpointing the problems and setting a priority for treatment he will have a better chance of recovery.  Bottom line is that your horse is getting worse.


We must find out the condition of his feet.  Is he is foundering to the point of sinking?  If so, you do not enough time to wait any longer for hoof care.  He needs immediate attention from qualified professionals - both veterinarian and farrier.


Renee' In Texas

Member sine 2008

EC Moderator/Primary Response


Re: r/s/r BP

ThePitchforkPrincess@...
 

Hi Lj
The first rinse is to remove dirt and surface iron.  To understand why there is a concern about iron check out the articles in this folder:

- ​LeeAnne, Newmarket, Ontario

ECIR Archivist 03/2004

 

Are you in the Pergolide Dosage Database?

   ECIR Files Table of Contents

      Dawn's Case History

Taken For Granite Art - Lightweight Cement Sculpture and Memorials

 



Re: second request, warm rear hooves

ReneR
 

Of the concerns you've listed, the ones I've copied/pasted below make me suspicious for PPID.  How old is your mare?  I recommend you follow the protocol for ACTH testing.  The first signs of Cushings can be ouchy feet, exercise intolerance and skin issues.


(snip from your original post)

Her current symptoms are as follows:

2) Has less energy than normal.  No turbo walk, reluctant to move out.
3) New onset of skin flakiness, dandruff. 
4) New onset of skin reactivity.  
(snip) 

Renee' in Texas
Member since 2008
EC Moderator/Primary Response



Re: ACTH History on almost 34 yr old.

Kerry Isherwood
 

...."I really don't feel like going downstairs to dig up paperwork but whatever the normal range for insulin and sugar were, he was within those. I would think all labs post the normal ranges as well as test results. Even my own annual bloodwork does."....


FYI--every lab has different parameters of "normal" for insulin & glucose (ie, Cornell's cut-off for "normal" equine insulin is 40uU/mL whereas Antech, one of the most widely used veterinary labs used in the US, has a "normal" cut-off of 20uU/mL for insulin). This group believes a truly normal non-fasted insulin should be less than 10uU/mL. So, if you ever do 'feel like' digging up your supposedly "normal" results, it might in fact be to Chance's benefit & longevity to do so because dying of laminitis at 34 is as excruciatingly painful as it is at any other age.

Good luck,
Kerry, BS, LVT-VTS(ECC)
Board-certified Vet Tech Specialist,
Emergency & Critical Care
Sept 2014


Re: sue & princess Special care grain

ironic_acres@...
 

By adding 1/4 Cup split peas, my picky eater now licks his bucket clean.

Tracy
Ohio May 2013


Re: ACTH History on almost 34 yr old.

Lorna Cane
 



> Guess what? I ain't changin' a thing!!


I'm glad  your protocol is working for your horse,Eileen.

If things every change in that regard,we're always here for a chat.



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


ECIR Group - Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

 



Re: r/s/r BP

Lorna Cane
 



> If for some reason  the bp isnt r/s/r'd but just soaked then drained, how much of a catastrophe is this?  


It depends on the horse.




Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


ECIR Group - Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance


89861 - 89880 of 280098