Date   

Re: NFC

janieclougher@...
 

NFC (non-fiber carbs) is not a measure we use with IR /PPID horses.  Instead, the combined ESC = Ethanol Soluble Sugar, and starch should be less than 10%.  Starch in particular can be problematic, so aim for starch less than 3%.

If you sign your name, year of joining and general location, we are better able to direct you to resources in your area.

Hope that helps!


Re: goopy eyes

palomino.1982@...
 

Goopy eyes may be a reaction to sensitivity  and/or the immune system is out of whack. This may be a result of PPID/IR  not being  controlled. 

A post from Dr. Kellon:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/131583


However, a horse with a perfectly normal immune system may have goopy 
eyes if the eyes are being constantly irritated by flies or dust, 
mold spores, etc.. , and just having clear eyes doesn't mean the 
immune system is up to par. In other words, it can be an indicator 
but it's not enough to diagnose anything one way or the other.

From several thousand cases we've seen goopy eyes clear up on many when diagnosed and cleared up when the correct diagnosis is addressed correctly. (That's not a typo.  I meant to say that.) 

Because the diseases can overlap, the symptoms can as well.
++++++++++++++++

Susan
EC Primary Response
SoCal 2007

------------------------------------------------------------------

Many of Jesses symptoms have improved.. ie frequent thirst/urination.   sweating  etc.. But the eyes remain goopy. Does a goopy eye tell us we arent tight enough with regard to acth level and  meds/ diet  etc?  lj friedman san diego nov 2014

ECHistory8



Re: Re Now Eating issues & loss of pasture mate.WAS: Testing ACTH & Doxycycline Question:

corrine haffner
 

Hi Cindy

I know he will move on after he morns his buddy being gone,just worried he'll relapse with lyme dease,still dealing with him being sore footed. Just don't want him to go backwards in progress that's my biggest worry with him and losing his buddy.

I'll deal with the loss of my lovely mare,iv been through worse lost my mom here in nov 2014. While i still have my mare i'll pamper her and spend as much time with her as i can. Taking lots of pictures so i'll have those to look back on and remember her and how beautiful she was.

Thank you,

Corrine and Jasper

MN 4/2014

ECHistory8


http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1622081710


goopy eyes

lj friedman
 

Many of Jesses symptoms have improved.. ie frequent thirst/urination.   sweating  etc.. But the eyes remain goopy. Does a goopy eye tell us we arent tight enough with regard to acth level and  meds/ diet  etc?  lj friedman san diego nov 2014

ECHistory8



Re: Re Now Eating issues & loss of pasture mate.

Cindy McGinley
 

     I want to add to the already wonderful post that Pauline wrote. When Alf, our equine patriarch, had to be put down, my other two horses screamed for him for a long time each and every time they went outside  -- for about a week. I realized suddenly on the second day that this is the way my horses chose to mourn, and when that came to me, instead of being something stressful I should try to alleviate, the screaming became something wonderfully heartfelt in honor of a fallen comrade. You have to let them handle it the way they do.
 
     They do move on.
 
     I am sorry you have to go through this.
 
- Cindy (with Alf's Entourage) in Central NY
ECIR Support
May 2006
www.blackhorseconsulting.com
 


Re: Re Now Eating issues & loss of pasture mate.WAS: Testing ACTH & Doxycycline Question:

corrine haffner
 

Hi Pauline 

I posted a photo of her in my album was from last summer,almost lost her to colic last summer. She looks kinda rough but she almost died of colic,spent 4 days walking and watching her plus a big vet bill. 

Will for sure start the rescue remedy 2 or 3 days before she's put down,unless it happens unplanned hopefully not.

Thank you,

Corrine and Jasper

MN 4/2014

ECHistory8


http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1622081710


Re: Re Now Eating issues & loss of pasture mate.WAS: Testing ACTH & Doxycycline Question:

takarri@...
 


When did you start the rescue remedy for you horse before the other was put down?? 

Hi Corrine,

 

 Unfortunately, Jacks passing wasn’t planned- colic- so I didn’t get to start the RR for Spur until later in the day- a friend dropped some in. If I’d had the chance, I would have started it a few days beforehand - for both of us. I had always said that if Jack passed away Spur would need to be put down as well as he wouldn’t cope. I just couldn’t do it at that time. I totally underestimated his ability to cope. He yet again taught me another lesson.

 

It’s good that there’s another horse close by- they don’t have to be together- just within eyesight.  Would love to see a photo of her when you’re ready.

 

Pauline & Spur

Sth West Vic

Australia Aug 07

EC Primary Response




Re: Abnormal shedding??

janieclougher@...
 

HI, Kelly - Buddy is such beauty! And what a lot of character in his face.

Here is what I see, looking at the case history and photos: not enough groceries for the amount of work. You would be amazed at how common this is.  How many pounds is the 6 flakes of hay?  Is the hay tested? (might be protein deficient)  Also, he has no trace elements added (copper, zinc, manganese, iodine); and the vitamin E might not be being absorbed if it is a powder form and not touching some oil.  MSM also can interfere with copper uptake, so there is a double whammy regarding copper status. So he may well be missing the essential minerals, safe calories, proteins and vitamin E that will alllow him to build muscle.

The fact that last summer he came up lame after being out on grass, combined with a new trim, suggests that he is still IR at baseline; this is somewhat supported by his improvement after being off grass. This means you need to continue to treat him as IR.

IR horses in work need safe feed, but a lot more of it.  Free choice hay (if the hay is below 10% ESC + starch) is ideal, plus beet pulp rinsed/soaked/rinsed (or Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance Cubes, or Nuzu Stabul 1) to act as a carrier for the vitamin E, flax, salt, and minerals that are missing from the hay.  If you can't test the hay, please start getting some California Trace Plus http://californiatrace.com/catraceplus.html   into him.  You will still have to add a magnesium supplement; Remission is fine, but magnesium oxide is a whole lot cheaper.

Rather than Nutrena Safe Choice Senior (which is anything but safe: starch is 14%  http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/safe-choice/safechoice-senior-horse-feed/index.jsp  ) I would use hay cubes, beet pulp (r/s/r) etc as a carrier to get supps into him.

Short version: Ideally, test the hay, balance the minerals to the hay. Testing the hay will also let you know how much protein is in there, and the ESC and starch.

If you can't test the hay, (and you are okay taking the chance that it is below 10% ESC + starch), then do this:

Free choice hay - have hay in front of him all the time
Rinsed/soaked/rinsed beet pulp (or hay cubes, or Nuzu etc) to act as carrier for:
 -1 cup ground, stabilized flax
 -2 scoops California Trace Plus
 -2 tablespoons of iodized table salt
 -5 capsules of Vitamin E in soy oil (or you can mix a tsp of olive oil or flax oil in with your vitamin E powder,  but  then you are doubling up on the selenium with the California Trace Plus)
 -Magnesium oxide, or Remission
 -Uckele Tri Amino
 - 100 grams ( a scoop and a bit) of whey protein isolate

If he doesn't start putting weight on after 10 days, increase the beet pulp to just about as much as he will eat (he can have up to 5 lbs dry weight, which after soaking will fill a bathtub, so shoot for 3 or so lbs dry weight)

Because of the very high index of suspicion for IR: No pasture; no Safe Choice Senior; no MSM; no apples or carrots. (use hay cubes for treats); no added oil beyond what is in the flax, or a tsp olive or flax oil for vitamin E absorption.

For others reading, there is a file on Feeding Recovered Laminitics When Back in Work  in this folder: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Laminitis%2C%20Hoof%20Care%20%26%20Trimming/

 

but I am not sure if Buddy is a candidate for this - depends on his current status (case history is from Aug 2014)

Let me know how this sounds to you, Kelly -  I can't remember if Buddy turns his nose up at beet pulp or other feeds, or if your arrangement at home allows free choice hay. 

Hope this helps!






 




---In EquineCushings@..., <sincere121@...> wrote :

Hello,


I haven't posted for awhile as my horse has been sound (knock on wood).  My question is regarding his shedding both this spring and last.  It seems to me to be later than other horses in the neighborhood (I only have one horse) and a bit unusual.  I was reading about some of the early symptoms of PPID and I noticed that he has several:  fall laminitis out of the blue (2013), abscesses (several times), losing his topline/muscle (over this past winter), and this unusual shedding pattern I noticed both this spring and last.


Thanks for your advice,

Kelly & Buddy

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1539713942

ECHistory8



Re: Re Now Eating issues & loss of pasture mate.WAS: Testing ACTH & Doxycycline Question:

corrine haffner
 

Hi Pauline 

Yes he has another horse my daughters gelding,they are not buddy's never have been,jasper has been chased and put through the fence by the other gelding. 

Sounds like pacing and screaming is in the cards even if he see's and sniffs her after she's gone,i have be the one to hold her rope while she's being put down. I have two horses to deal with after, both will lose their minds,this mare holds the small herd of 3 together. 

When did you start the rescue remedy for you horse before the other was put down?? Have 2 to deal with plus i'am going to be a emotional mess. I know she will still be my heart horse,hard to say good by to such a beautiful sweet mare. Will put a picture of her in my album,she's palomino quarter horse her name is chardonnay.


Thank you,

Corrine and Jasper

MN 4/2014

ECHistory8


http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1622081710


Re: Re Now Eating issues & loss of pasture mate.WAS: Testing ACTH & Doxycycline Question:

takarri@...
 


So how do i get him through the loss of his best buddy? i don't want him pacing the fence and screaming for days looking for her. Hard enough to go through this then to have jasper screaming and looking for her will be heart breaking. 

Hi Corinne,

 

I recently had to deal with a similar situation when my heart horse Jack was euthanized. He had been Spurs constant companion for many years. Jack couldn’t go out of sight- ever- without Spur going nuts. Jack used to like playing hidey at midnight, in which I would then have to drag myself out of bed to “find” him as Spur would be screaming the neighborhood down.

 

Spur was there for the whole process, watched and sniffed Jack after the process. I certainly believed that helped. He did go nuts, screaming & running for about 30 minutes after Jack left. He continued to call out and pace for the next few days.  I slept in his stall for the first night and reassured him each time he called out. I put my 2 pet sheep in his yard overnight and Rescue remedy really helped … both of us… There’s not a lot more than you can do other than be there for Jasper. He will fret and pace- that’s a normal reaction for them. He will eventually stop and move on.  Spur called less and less, but it took a week. Make sure his feet are well protected and padded.- that would be my main concern.  My vet offered a sedative for Spur- I declined, again the rescue remedy worked so much better than I anticipated. There are safe calming herbs that can be used- but not sure how that would go with the doxy treatment. Is there another horse close by that he can see?

 

I’m so sorry for your impending loss- it’s a hard gut wrenching decision to make. Quality of life is very important and although it may not feel like it, we are lucky that we can alleviate any pain and suffering in a peaceful humane manner. She will always be your heart horse.  Take care & hugs to you.

 

Pauline & Spur

Sth West Vic

Australia Aug 07

EC Primary Response

http://tinyurl.com/7qbdyas

 





Re: Re Now Eating issues & loss of pasture mate.WAS: Testing ACTH & Doxycycline Question:

corrine haffner
 

Hi 

Yes he cleans up the cubes,and wants more. forgot to add that in last post.

Thank you,

Corrine and Jasper

MN 4/2014

ECHistory8


http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1622081710


Re: understanding ACTH test results

Michelle Riley
 

I had the same “normal” results using MSU.  Cornell testing confirmed my suspicions of PPID.  Use Cornell.
 
Michelle Riley
NW Indiana
Aug ‘09


Re: Re Now Eating issues & loss of pasture mate.WAS: Testing ACTH & Doxycycline Question:

corrine haffner
 

Hi 

He was back before all his trouble he got  24/7 hay round bale put in feeder and a handful of timothy pellets for supplements,that was 2 years ago.  He's been losing weight he was on the fat side about a month and a half ago. He went from 1,250 to 1,130 not skinny by any means can feel ribs can't see them. He isn't seeming to gain weight on current feedings.

Can't re test PPID IR till july he's on doxy for lyme dease,so yes out of control PPID, IR is possible. Heres post by DR Kellon back in march about re testing 192615

Thank you,

Corrine and Jasper

MN 4/2014

ECHistory8


http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1622081710


Re: Re Now Eating issues & loss of pasture mate.WAS: Testing ACTH & Doxycycline Question:

Lorna Cane
 


>So total amount is 28.5lbs a day,hay is gone by am feeding. He's drinking 25 gallons a day sometimes more.

How many pounds total feed was he eating before,in 'normal' times ?
Is he gaining weight on 28.5 pounds?
Is he cleaning up the cubes?

Have you ruled out out-of-control PPID/IR?

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup





Re: Re Now Eating issues & loss of pasture mate.WAS: Testing ACTH & Doxycycline Question:

corrine haffner
 

Hi Karen

He has another gelding,but they aren't buddy's, other gelding is very mean boss horse.

Thank you,

Corrine and Jasper

MN 4/2014

ECHistory8


http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1622081710


Re: Re Now Eating issues & loss of pasture mate.WAS: Testing ACTH & Doxycycline Question:

corrine haffner
 

Hi 

He gets 1.5 of ODTB cubes in AM and PM upping pms ODTB cubes to 2lbs tonight so 3.5 lbs of cubes a day, 25lbs of hay thats soaked. So total amount is 28.5lbs a day,hay is gone by am feeding. He's drinking 25 gallons a day sometimes more. Hay is in small hole hay net 1.5 inch holes he's eaten holes bigger in last day or so. Was chewing on net when i went out to feed this morning.

I'll let him see his buddy then after the deed is done,hopefully i can handle this it's going to be hard. Have had alot of losses this year already.

Thank you,

Corrine and Jasper

MN 4/2014

ECHistory8


http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/photos/albums/1622081710


Re: Re Now Eating issues & loss of pasture mate.WAS: Testing ACTH & Doxycycline Question:

kansteen5545@...
 

Hi Corinne -
Are you planning a replacement for your mare as a new buddy for Jasper? If you get the replacement now, Jasper could become used to it and not have as hard a time when your mare has to go.
Karen
ME/2014
---- "sassafrass45@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

Hi
(Re: Jasper)
Also his pasture mate of 11 years is going to be put down this fall or sooner,my mare who's 28 1/2 years old. Her health is declining and she gotten skinny despite all the hay and 15lbs of senior feed divided up into 4 feedings. She has heaves which is getting harder to control having more and more flare ups/even on Lung EQ. Also has DSLD on both front legs and fetlocks are dropping more and one leg has bowed a tendon.

So how do i get him through the loss of his best buddy? i don't want him pacing the fence and screaming for days looking for her. Hard enough to go through this then to have jasper screaming and looking for her will be heart breaking.


Re: Re Now Eating issues & loss of pasture mate.WAS: Testing ACTH & Doxycycline Question:

Lorna Cane
 


>Jasper is eating none stop do i let him eat all he want's? 

My first reply seems to have evaporated.

Horses in pain often require more than their normal amounts of feed in order to hold their weight.
How many pounds of hay a day is Jasper eating? How many pounds total feed?

Is he gaining weight,or holding?

Is he still drinking 25 gallons of water a day?

Sorry......questions.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup





Re: Re Now Eating issues & loss of pasture mate.WAS: Testing ACTH & Doxycycline Question:

Lorna Cane
 



>I always try to make sure that the horses here get to see their buddy after the deed is done.


Also Rescue Remedy helps.



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup





Re: Re Now Eating issues & loss of pasture mate.WAS: Testing ACTH & Doxycycline Question:

Lorna Cane
 



>So how do i get him through the loss of his best buddy?


I'm so sorry,Corrine.


I always try to make sure that the horses here get to see their buddy after the deed is done.

It helps .


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup




91661 - 91680 of 282204