Date   

Re: Now: Jasper

Kerry Isherwood
 

Corrine,

Im so sorry you are dealing with so many horrible issues right now.  I have not had to -- and cannot begin to -- fathom what you are going through with two ailing horses.  I have lost many dogs and pets throughout my life, but I've never dealt with laminitis as severe as Jasper's nor have I lost a horse of my own. 

I have, however, been with friends recently who have faced catastrophic situations with their horses.  My heart broke each time each friend hugged me and cried on my shoulder when they received the grave prognoses.  I guess because their pain is still fresh for me I was moved to write.  I wanted to tell you that when confronted with an extreme situation regarding our horses, it is absolutely ok to consider euthanasia.  I hope with all of my heart that that statement is not offensive to you, most importantly, or to the list members & list owners.  I probably could have worded that more gently, but my sentiment is that no one will judge you for considering it and absolutely no one, including yourself, can make you feel guilty for making such a momentous decision.  The ability to alleviate all pain & suffering in a loved one is an enormous & powerful gift.  Again, gift may not be the word everyone might choose, but I do believe taking on another's pain so he or she may finally rest and be pain-free is a gift, in some form.

My sincerest apologies if this is inappropriate in any way.  It was not my intentions. 

I wish you the best of luck for Jasper & your mare, and of course, yourself & family.

Kerry in NY
Sept 2014


Re: Now: colick Trouble Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

Lorna Cane
 



>Sorry if i'am sounding snotty but my horse needs HELP with his PAIN.


What did the vet say was the cause of Jasper's pain?

What is he doing today,Jasper?
Is he down?
Is he eating?
Is he drinking?


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


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Re: Now: colick Trouble Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

Lorna Cane
 



> i still don't get why i can't give 3 scoops of PQ it says right in direction you can. He's a 4 1/2 pain wise. Yes dr kellon said 2 scoops but things have changed and in a big way. Jasper need to get some relief from his pain,and i don't see the big issue with 3 scoops of PQ. 

Corrine,what am I missing here?

Where did you see that giving 3 scoops of PQ is an issue?



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup





Re: Now: colick Trouble Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

corrine haffner
 

Hi 

Thank you lavinia, i still don't get why i can't give 3 scoops of PQ it says right in direction you can. He's a 4 1/2 pain wise. Yes dr kellon said 2 scoops but things have changed and in a big way. Jasper need to get some relief from his pain,and i don't see the big issue with 3 scoops of PQ. 

When pain starts causing ulcer issue think something needs to be done????

Sorry if i'am sounding snotty but my horse needs HELP with his PAIN.

Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014
ECHistory8


Re: Now: colick Trouble Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Corinne,

It may  interfere with the absorption of the pergolide so space them further apart from now on. Not a catastrophe for one dose. Give his next dose of pergolide whenever it would normally be given.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ECHistory8


Re: Now: colick Trouble Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

corrine haffner
 

Hi 

I read that message,and when Dr kellon said 2 scoops of PQ he wasn't as bad as he is now. Yes it was a typo mistake on ALCAR i haven't had any sleep in over 24 hours. I don't see how an extra scoop of PQ would make him pain free at a 4 1/2 pain level. 

His pain level is causing ulcers,so obviously something needs to be done here.Iv had the vet out 2 times can't afford another vet call right now,just spent 420$ on gastro guard.  Fact is i'am tired and stressed and my horse needs his pain level taken down to at least a 3 that isn't pain free. 

Thanks lavinia for that info on ulcer meds.

Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014
ECHistory8


Re: Hoof help, please

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Fran

Ford's a cutie. I think you were smart to have blood work drawn to check his current status.

Took a look at Ford's photos. You are correct, there are some areas of concern regarding the trim. When you get the xrays, it will be helpful to see them. Thanks for the clean, clear, labeled photos of the LF - helps so much when trying to see what may be happening.

The LF medial heel has a significant flare and the lateral wall is bulging. It is also laterally high. The heels have migrated forward but haven't collapsed under as so many of them do so that is working in his favor. Bars are leaning outward, which is contributing to the wall flares.The dorsal wall has a dished profile, which equals a too long toe. The original cause could have been mechanical (long toe), laminitis destabilizing the connections or a combination of these factors. Frog appears to have been trimmed to below the height of the walls. Rest of the feet show similar flaring issues.

Could use good pix of the other feet as well.

http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html

I can do some mark-ups if you'd like.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

>>>>>>>>>


Re: Now: colick Trouble Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

Lorna Cane
 


>he's getting 2 scoops of the PQ currently,plus 11,000 grams of ALCAR.


Recommended dose is 1 gram per 100 pounds body weight. You must mean 11 grams,I think.

Reread the ALCAR recommended dose in the Files to help clear up the 3 scoop question. 
I sent a link to the message I sent you a day or so ago  about it,but NEO ate it.Sorry.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup








Re: Now: colick Trouble Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

Lorna Cane
 


>Also his hoof pain is currently at a 4 to a 4 1/2 this morning,so still wondering if i can give him an extra scoop of PQ??

Reread this message:


I hope it helps clear up any confusion.


  Lorna in Ontario,Canada

ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup






Re: Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Corrine,

Just so you know, UlcerGard is the same medication (also made my Merial) as the GastroGard but is marketed as ulcer prevention. Contains the same amount of omeprazole per tube as GastroGard but doesn't require a prescription because for prevention you only dose 1/4 of the syringe. Valley Vet has it on sale right now for 28.70 per tube vs GastroGard at 32.50/tube.

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=157b4484-3762-4ca5-bc09-a634ebf4e539

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

ECHistory8


Re: Now: colick Trouble Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

corrine haffner
 

Hi 

So i got gastro guard for jasper this morning he was having ulcer trouble again. Gave him the first tube and forgot he just had his pergolide.  Will the gastro guard render his dose of pergolide useless?? 

Also his hoof pain is currently at a 4 to a 4 1/2 this morning,so still wondering if i can give him an extra scoop of PQ?? I know he can't be pain free but i highly doubt an extra scoop of PQ will do that, with his current pain level. Think he needs a bit of a break from the pain, a 3 or a 2 1/2 would sure help him out,he's getting 2 scoops of the PQ currently,plus 11,000 grams of ALCAR.

Yes i'am doing the capaisin obviously its not enough.

Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014
ECHistory8


Re: poor fat digestion and shiny manure

Lorna Cane
 


>If mucus is suddenly causing a sheen on manure, what does that mean?

I Googled mucous manure. Here are a few sites:

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup







Re: Hard swollen sheath

Donna Powell
 

Me too....and I'm the one who has the horse with the hard swollen sheath....still reading and digesting info....


From: "Sharon Manning partnernaturally@... [EquineCushings]"
To: "EquineCushings@..."
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2015 8:27 PM
Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: Hard swollen sheath

Holly cow that just went so fast and far over my head I'm dizzy! :-)
Think I will save that and re read about ten plus times.
Sharon
E tn
2006







Re: poor fat digestion and shiny manure

beverly meyer
 

If mucus is suddenly causing a sheen on manure, what does that mean?
I know it's beneficial as part of the lining of the gut, but is she somehow overproducing or excreting it?
Thanks, Beverly
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Beverly%20Texas/


Re: poor fat digestion and shiny manure

Nancy C
 

Standlee is not balanced.  Standlee is the bulk of your diet.  NRCPlus will be teaching you how to calculate exactly how much copper, zinc and selenium she needs vs what she is currently getting.  ODTB Cubes are designed to feed as a complete diet.  Your diet is 25% ODTB Cubes.  She is not getting enough cubes to give her the required amount of SE.  Or copper or Zinc. The likely high iron and manganese in Standlee is throwing off Copper and Zinc ratios even further.

With knowledge of the nutrient profile of the forage and the animal's weight and level of work, one can supplement only what is needed to target nutritional needs.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Learn to manage IR and PPID equine at the NO Laminitis! Conference in Georgetown Texas, November 6-8, 2015   www.nolaminitis.org

 






Re: poor fat digestion and shiny manure

Lorna Cane
 

http://www.bigdweb.com/Biotin-Plus-Powder-20-Lb/productinfo/633P/

Remember to sign posts , please.


 

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup



 






Re: poor fat digestion and shiny manure

beverly meyer
 

I can't remember where I bought the bag of Biotin Plus but it doesn't list Yucca. I can't find a website with a different Biotin Plus either.
Maybe they took it out?


Re: Help with Jiaogulan?

Maggie
 

Hi Belinda,

The icing is great!  As are the anti-fatigue matting pads.  You may need to play around with that second frog shaped piece.  Some horses like that support, some don't. Just see what he's more comfortable with.  Another option for pads that may be more resilient than anti-fatigue matting are the gardening knee pads.

As for using the boots that you have, they may or may not work.  Right now the important part is the padding--the boot is for holding that in place essentially, though the boot itself does offer some support.  So it depends on how tightly they fit and if you can put padding in them comfortably.  Since riding boots generally are pretty tight fitting, you may not be able to use padding in them.  Try them and see if he gets more comfortable in them.  You may be able to use a piece of the anti-fatigue matting that is already compressed inside, but may be not.  

Easy boot does make a therapeutic boot, called Easy boot Rx.  Easy to get on and off and also supports the use of padding.  You can buy their pads or make your own.  You can buy them many places online, and maybe even locally.  May check with your trimmer if he knows a place. 

We also like Soft Rides.  https://www.softrideboots.com/   They come with a pad, but again, some horses do not like the frog support part on the pad that comes with them, and some members have found that their horse is more comfortable after slicing that part off of the pad (and keeping it for later use if needed).  

Make sure that the Vitamin E capsules that you buy contain oil (usually soy) in the ingredients list.  Vitamin E needs to be in contact with oil for proper absorption.  I get mine at Costco (Nature Made brand) or Swanson Vitamins.

How is he feeling today?  What's his name, BTW, so we know what to call him?
 
Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA



Re: Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

corrine haffner
 

Hi Jaini

It will have to be do able can't leave him untreated, how long after gastro guard is started before i see improvement??. I'am not going to get much sleep tonight he's very uncomfortable,and shaking now. 

I'll look online for the best price here,can get an RX from vet to order online.

Thank you very much Jaini 

Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014
ECHistory8


Re: Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

janieclougher@...
 

Hi Corrine - separate the GastroGard by 2 hours from the other medications.  It need be given only once per day so hopefully that is do-able.  I know he is getting a ton of stuff right now, between the doxycycline for Lyme and everything else.  If Dr. Kellon says it is okay to give at the same time as some of the other stuff, or at only an hour from other meds, then go with that.  I am just being uber-conservative because the effectiveness of the GastroGard can be affected by conditions in the stomach (ie other meds)  And yes, he will need to be treated for 30 days if it makes a difference.  I wish it wasn't so blasted expensive.



So how far apart from other supplements do i need to give Gastro guard??
Doesn't he need to be treated for 30 days,if it makes a difference ??

Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014
ECHistory8

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