Date   

Re: Clippers for Cushings Coat

Dee Kenville <ndeewoods@...>
 


Re: Newly diagnosed pony, feeling overwhelmed....

janieclougher@...
 

Hi, Sarah - here is the long post as promised.  If you do nothing else this week, soak the pony's hay (Temporary Emergency Diet); carry on with her meds; and sit down with many cups of tea to read the files you were sent when you joined. It is normal to feel overwhelmed - the approach to all this information is the same approach one takes to eating an elephant: one bite at a time.

Also, since you are in the UK, check out the Laminitis Site  http://www.thelaminitissite.org/

 



To be double sure we are answering your questions correctly, we need a little more information. Please take a few minutes and join EC History 8:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/info
Follow the instructions to download a case history template; then fill it out, save it to your computer, and upload it into the EC History 8 files section (make a folder, first, with your name on it)

The list philosophy is Diagnosis, Diet, Trim, and Exercise.

Diagnosis is by blood tests: blood should be pulled from a non-fasting horse (or pony) in a quiet barn; blood spun, separated, and frozen or chilled asap, then sent to the lab on ice. Ask for insulin, glucose, leptin and ACTH (ACTH is to check for Cushings or PPID; insulin, glucose and leptin are to assess EMS status)

More information here:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/2%20%20Diagnosis %20Diet%20Trim/

and here:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Blood%20Testing %20for%20IR%20%26%20Cushings%20Disease/

Diet is supremely important, in some ways more for what is not fed: no pasture, sweet feeds, oats/grain, carrots, apples, iron-containing supplements.
Diet consists of grass hay or haylage, with ESC (soluble sugars) and starch of less than 10%, plus minerals balanced to the forage, plus vitamin E, salt, and flaxseed or flaxseed oil. One can use a carrier of beet pulp (rinsed, soaked, and rinsed) as a safe feed to get the supplements in.  
 The Temporary Emergency Diet uses hay soaked for 1 hour in cold water, or 30 minutes in hot water, with the water drained where the horses can't get at it; plus vitamin E, salt, and ground flaxseed in a safe carrier such as beet pulp (rinsed, soaked, rinsed).

More info on Temporary Emergency Diet here:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/%203%20%20CORE %20DIET%2C%20ANALYSIS%2C%20NUTRITIONAL%20NEEDS/Basic
%20Nutritional%20Needs/

Trim: This is a trim physiologically balanced to the internal shape of the coffin bone, with short toe and low heels. Trim is often a neglected or mis-understood piece of the puzzle.

Exercise: This is the best EMS buster there is, but only if the pony/horse is comfortable and non-laminitic. A horse that has suffered laminitis needs a good 6 to 9 months of correct hoof re-growth before any kind of serious exercise can begin. Obviously, your pony won't be exercising for a while.

There is also a ton of good information on the ecirhorse.org website.

Give us a little more information; ask any and all questions.

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC 09 ECIR mod/support https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C %20Smithers%20BC/





---In EquineCushings@..., <sarahlbennett@...> wrote :


Hiya,  

I have questions regarding the prognosis for my little made.

Following a first ever bout of laminitis my 27 year retired Shetland broodmare has this week been diagnosed with EMS/Cushings. 







Re: Escaped pony!

fionn@...
 

Sorry, forgot to trim! Dang it.

Michelle Peck Williams & Fionn
Lexington, Kentucky USA
Joined June 2012
fionn@...

Case history:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory5/files/Michelle%20Peck%20Williams/

Photo album: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/photos/album/867903845/pic/list

Foot Photo album: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHoof/photos/album/1767999070/pic/list


Re: Escaped pony!

fionn@...
 

Check out this file for my do-it-yourself ice boots that you can make with $5 worth of ice and some stuff you probably already have.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/search/files?query=ice%20boots%20diy

Icing can’t hurt…surely.  And getting the inflammation down will definitely help!  Good luck!


Michelle Peck Williams & Fionn
Lexington, Kentucky USA
Joined June 2012
fionn@...

Case history:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory5/files/Michelle%20Peck%20Williams/

Photo album: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/photos/album/867903845/pic/list

Foot Photo album: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHoof/photos/album/1767999070/pic/list






On Jun 11, 2015, at 5:55 PM, bmeyer@... [EquineCushings]

I read the Escape files and gave her extra magnesium for a total dose today of 5000mg.

I never felt pulses before.  I can feel her existing ouchy left fore pulse pretty easily but how soon after grass would it elevate or bound, and is there any way to tell if that's her normal ouchy pulse?

It doesn't feel hard and pushy, but like a good steady pulse should feel if I took it on myself.  I read they are often very faint though.

Her heart rate is 48 bpm, which is only a tad higher than her normal 42.

Should I tape some ice packs on anyway, or would that make her already present laminits worse??

Thanks! She was out for an hour. Grass and clover are very green but not tall. She has front teeth but no back teeth.  I guess I skip Jiagulan tonight too, right?

Beverly 6/14

Beverly Texas

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Beverly%20Texas/





Re: Newly diagnosed pony, feeling overwhelmed....

janieclougher@...
 

Hi, Sarah, and welcome to the list!

I am not surprised that you are overwhelmed.  It is tough to deal with a sick equine, and trying to assimilate the info on this list is a big job and steep learning curve.

I am going to reply in two posts (instead of one enormously long one).  First, to address your questions one at a time:



1. Once the meds work, will she feel better in herself? She's not been right for a few weeks now, no sparkle, etc but it was all a bit vague until the lameness and we thought she was feeling her age.


When her Cushing's is under control, and the triggers for the laminitis are removed (Cushing's, diet), and the trim is right then yes, she will feel much better.  If there is a lot of hoof damage, it can be a longish rehab, but still worth it (in my opinion). 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. Or is it the case now she'll always feel "not right" or suffer frequent bouts of illness?


If the meds and diet is right, she will feel well.  Cushing's disease and insulin resistance both affect  the immune system, resulting in not only laminitis but low resistance to infections, and generally feeling crappy.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3. Could it be that we get the meds right and she has a lot of years left, or is it just prolonging the inevitable at her age?


My gelding Merlin foundered pretty profoundly at age 28, due to being insulin resistant, being too fat, and grazing.  He recovered from that, and was diagnosed with Cushings when he was 30 (by blood work - he never got laminitis again).  Right now, at age 34, he is out there chowing down on his beet pulp and supplements, after having a great day chasing the girls and generally getting into trouble.  Merlin's story is not unique.  Cushing's horses can live full lives, and usually their eventual demise is not Cushing's related.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

4. I'm concerned about her care going forward as we have lots and lots of grass and a starvation paddock is not going to easy.


This is one that only you can answer.  The dry lot seems impossible at first, but we have lots of ideas on this list to help.  Alternatively, out on pasture with a grazing muzzle, holes taped shut so she can't get any grass, could work, too.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

....."I feel so bad for thinking it, but I can't help but wonder what is the right thing to do for a 27 year old pony with a chronic illness. Especially as she's not in pain as such."......


Don't feel bad - at age 27, it only makes sense to wonder what is the right thing to do.  She should be able to recover and carry on, feeling much better, but of course there is no guarantee.  The person to ask is your pony - not trying to be flippant, but have a look into her face and ask her if she is willing to try, or if she is just too tired and sore and is ready to be put to sleep.  I will say that if she is still eating and looking perky, things are looking good.  Is she eating her hay, and refusing her speedibeet, or just not eating much at all?


Hang in there - another post is to follow......



Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC 09
ECIR mod/support
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/












Re: Now: colick Trouble Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

Larks Tabatha
 

Hi Corrine...

Thought of you when I saw this video today.  Anything to help make things easier for you and Jasper...

How To Poultice Your Horse's Hoof

 



I am so sorry that you and Jasper are having to go through such a difficult time.  Sending you many encouraging thoughts.

Sally in N. AZ
April 2013


Re: The IR blues...

janieclougher@...
 

Gads, how frustrating!!!!!!  I don't have any answers for you - but I would try feeding the soaked hay (Temporary Emergency Diet) for a week and see if it helps.  Is there any chance he is getting fed some verboten foods - apples, carrots etc?

Phooey!

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC 09
ECIR mod/support
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/




---In EquineCushings@..., <kerry.isherwood@...> wrote :

Crap.  I get one IR stabillized and the other falls apart.  I have no idea why, but now my 8yo gelding's insulin is 70uU/mL, the highest its ever been.  I just dont understand....



Kerry in NY
Sept 2014


Re: Escaped pony!

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Beverly,

Are you referring to the definitions for Acute and Chronic in this document "Pain Relief Alternatives to Bute and Banamine"? 

When you read the document's sections on Acute Laminitis and Chronic Laminitis each gives you guidelines for supplementing with J-Herb and ALCar.  I would continue to use J-Herb and ALCar unless she has pounding pulses and heat in her hooves.   Since she has on-going hoof issues and probably some vascular damage from past episodes I would monitor her hooves for heat and ice accordingly.  You are the best judge of how to interpret the recommendations in the document as they apply to Ginger and adjust based on her responses.  

The additional Magnesium is a good thing to add to her diet regardless of acute or chronic.

This is how I understand the document and the recommendations.  The Moderators  may have other suggestions for you.

Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI  10/12



 Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

 

 






Re: Help with Jiaogulan?

Belinda Borders
 

Hi Maggie!

Thanks for the response. My horse's name is Junior - but everyone calls him Bug. I put him in a friend's soft ride boots yesterday with flat easy boot pads and today he seems much more comfortable. I am still feeling pretty overwhelmed trying to take care of all the business of my dad's passing along with taking care of Bug and many other things that are going on. So if I don't get back here to post often that is why.

So - here  is where we are at right now: pulses are much better. Left front feels normal, right front slightly elevated. I am keeping him in the soft ride boots. I didn't ice today, his feet felt normal temperature, but fairly pliable and I was getting worried about softening them up too much. I had iced him 2 hours 2x's a day for 3 days.  He is still on 1 gram of bute 2x's daily, 20 isox 2x's daily, 1 cc of Ace 1x daily. He will not eat the beet pulp, so I had to switch back to the prime glo to get him to eat the supplements. I am only giving him about 3 ozs 2x's a day. If you have another suggestion for supplement carrier that would be great. Other than that we are following the emergency diet - soaked hay, flax seed, salt, magnesium, selenium and vitamin e. My vet sent the blood work to Cornell and we are waiting for the results. She also ordered a  Lyme Test and EPM test.

The joke around the barn is that Bug does everything his own way - he didn't read the text book that tells him what symptoms he should have. 

I have a couple of questions that I could use some help on.

1. When should I start walking him? I got him out of the stall today for one trip up the aisle way. He's walking with a slight limp on the right front. I didn't want to push it, so I put him back in his stall.

2. We x-rayed his right front a month ago and everything looked really good. My vet advised we hold off on more x-rays until next week after we get blood work back. My concern is that if he is rotated and I try walking him, am I going to cause more damage?

3. Since I board, hay control is out of my hands. I did get hay analysis done a couple of times in 2011 and 2012, but not since then. The results were pretty similar. We use the same grower, he delivers hay every two weeks, and its fairly consistent in quality. I plan on getting an analysis done again now - I am taking my samples on Monday. If I post some of the older analysis along with the new one when I get it back, is there a way to mineral balance keeping in mind that there may be some slight variances in each load?

4. When should I switch from the bute to J-Herb? Do his pulses need to be completely normal? Does he need to be walking normally?

Sorry for such a long post - but I greatly appreciate all the help.

Belinda and Bug

June 2015 Ohio




Re: Escaped pony!

beverly meyer
 

And should I avoid Jherb and ALcar tonight?
Bottom line question is how do you know if going into acute mode, and when to stop or start supplements or meds suitable for chronic but not for acute.
I don't have Metformin which the files suggest. Would extra lysine help or just magnesium?
Thanks,
Beverly 6/14


Re: Escaped pony!

beverly meyer
 

She's been lame for months, or even years off and on.  The last 2 weeks she has been better although still very delicate with left fore.
So yes, chronic laminitis and uncontrolled insulin.
I taped ice above her hooves, but don't know how to tell if Ishould do acute mode stuff instead of Chronic mode.
Such as, stay on or go off JHerb or Alcar.  I don't have Phyto Quench which I read is for Acute.
I can find and feel pulses on both front but don't know what is an emergnecy pulse and what is an I'm already sore because I live this way kind of pulse.  I'm willing to stay up tonight if I knew what to do to be sure.
Also, if she's iced, but NOT emergnecy mode, would that harm her lack of circulaiton that I give Jherb for? And thus cause more laminitis?
Thanks!!
Beverly 6/14


Re: Escaped pony!

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Beverly,

Are you saying you don't know how to feel for pulses on a horse or you have never felt any pulses on Ginger before? "Normal ouchy pulse" I am a bit at a loss here with what you are describing.  Here is a link (below) which may help you sort this out.  

You write " Should I tape some ice packs on anyway, or would that make her already present laminits worse??"    Was she experiencing laminitis before she "escaped"?   


Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI  10/12



Equine Digital Pulses How and Why

 







Re: Clippers for Cushings Coat

Donna Powell
 

Dee,

Do you oil it every 3 minutes like the instructions say?   Is that a pain?



From: "Dee Kenville ndeewoods@... [EquineCushings]"
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:00 PM
Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: Clippers for Cushings Coat


We use these on icelandics, they are amazing!  A professional groomer turned me onto them.

Dee Kenville, Santa Cruz, CA






Re: Now: colick Trouble Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

corrine haffner
 

Vet said i could give Dormosedan,but don't think that is reccomended ?? I'v heard also ace won't work on an already excited horse,don't recall where though.  I know it's not doing much for jasper he's still all in a tizzy,he was very attached to chardonnay.


Thank's
Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014
ECHistory8


Re: Now: colick Trouble Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

ReneR
 

Regarding the Ace - Dr. K will know better than me - but I've been told it will not work well if the horse is already upset.  It can't attach properly as the horse is already excited.

Did your vet mention perhaps using something else to get him calm, then follow up with Ace as needed?

In my experience, if you can give the Ace when the horse is calm - you only need to 2 or 3cc to help a horse stay relaxed. 

Since Jasper is already upset, even 10cc might not be able to work.

Rene'


Escaped pony!

beverly meyer
 

I read the Escape files and gave her extra magnesium for a total dose today of 5000mg.

I never felt pulses before.  I can feel her existing ouchy left fore pulse pretty easily but how soon after grass would it elevate or bound, and is there any way to tell if that's her normal ouchy pulse?

It doesn't feel hard and pushy, but like a good steady pulse should feel if I took it on myself.  I read they are often very faint though.

Her heart rate is 48 bpm, which is only a tad higher than her normal 42.

Should I tape some ice packs on anyway, or would that make her already present laminits worse??

Thanks! She was out for an hour. Grass and clover are very green but not tall. She has front teeth but no back teeth.  I guess I skip Jiagulan tonight too, right?

Beverly 6/14

Beverly Texas

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Beverly%20Texas/



Re: Now: colick Trouble Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

Robyn Tucker <VenturesV@...>
 

Corrine, my horse Khartoon and I are praying for you and Jasper. Khartoon is a healer and could sense my distress today over your and Jasper's distress and We both want Jasper to get through this. 
I would never speak for this group but it seems from what I've read that everyone wants to be with you in spirit to support you and Jasper and we have Chardonnay in our hearts as she makes her way to the clouds in the sky to run with those who've gone before her.
Thinking of you and Jasper and hoping for recovery as fast as possible.
I'm not sure this is a an acceptable question, but I'm just wondering where you live? Perhaps someone who lives close by could help out a bit? If only to keep you company.
Robyn, Khartoon 
CA


Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 11, 2015, at 4:11 PM, sassafrass45@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

 

I meant ML not mg sorry me and my typos here,yes my vet reccomended 15ml.  The hole on LF front is 2 1/2 inchs  wide,RF has a hole that is close to 3 inchs. Hard to clean them he doesn't hold foot up but a second at a time. I can try 10 mls of the ace for tonight see how that goes. Wouldn't the DMSO like endup running into the holes? Don't know if that stuff would sting but if it does he'll have a fit,stomping and doing his i hurt dance.

I get the idea on the duct tape boot,duct tape i currently have is thin junk but can try and make it work.He's do for his bandage change here at 8pm. I'v got schedule for everything that gets done iv got a chalk board with all the times and what he gets.  Thank you lorna, i'am so greatfull for this group,more then anyone can know:)


Thank's
Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014
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ECHistory8


Re: Now: colick Trouble Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

corrine haffner
 

I meant ML not mg sorry me and my typos here,yes my vet reccomended 15ml.  The hole on LF front is 2 1/2 inchs  wide,RF has a hole that is close to 3 inchs. Hard to clean them he doesn't hold foot up but a second at a time. I can try 10 mls of the ace for tonight see how that goes. Wouldn't the DMSO like endup running into the holes? Don't know if that stuff would sting but if it does he'll have a fit,stomping and doing his i hurt dance.

I get the idea on the duct tape boot,duct tape i currently have is thin junk but can try and make it work.He's do for his bandage change here at 8pm. I'v got schedule for everything that gets done iv got a chalk board with all the times and what he gets.  Thank you lorna, i'am so greatfull for this group,more then anyone can know:)


Thank's
Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014
ECHistory8


Re: Now: colick Trouble Jasper's Journal of Pulse & lameness last 10 days.

Lorna Cane
 



>Just a few questions,is it ok to put DMSO on his sole when there are pretty good size holes from abcesses? 

What size is 'pretty good' ? Inches?
If he were here I would put DMSO on the sole,avoiding the holes.

>Also the acepromazine  5 mg didn't seem to do anything,would it be ok to give 10 mg ??

I think your vet recommended 15.........do you mean mgs? Or mls?

So 10 does not sound unreasonable to me to try.

>Without boots over the bandage they don't hold up to his pacing and abcess holes get full of manure.

You can make 'boots' out of duct tape.It is taped over the sole and up the sides,all around the hoof,covers the walls.You can have several layers that cover the sole. Also reinforce in the toe area.
Or you can start the 'boot' beforehand.Lay duct tape sticky side up,cut in strips,crossing each other to make an area that will cover the hoof,and leave enough length of tape to go up the wall.Place solid taped area on sole of hoof,and quickly fold remaining tape up the sides/front of the hoof.
I'm sorry - that was a terrible description.I hope it made some sense.
You might find a better description in the Archives.
I've done this many times - the duct tape boot thing.Works beautifully.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup




The IR blues...

Kerry Isherwood
 

Crap.  I get one IR stabillized and the other falls apart.  I have no idea why, but now my 8yo gelding's insulin is 70uU/mL, the highest its ever been.  I just dont understand....

I knew something was wrong when he started getting spooky a few days ago.  That's always the first sign.  Then we went on a trail ride and an hour in he suddenly reverted back to crazytown, seriously deranged behavior he hasn't exhibited in over two years.  The other riders were mortified; I was so embarrassed.  Hence the blood draw. 

I will update his case history so fresh eyes can look at it and check for holes.  Briefly, though, he's on 15 lbs/day ODTBC and soaked hay (tiny bit).  VItE/flax/salt.  Strictly drylotted.  Feet are the same as always.  I dont know what changed to cause this insulin surge.  Is 8yrs old too young for PPID?  What do I do, stop the cubes and just feed soaked hay?  The max ESC + starch he's getting is in the cubes (the hay was analyzed and is soaked).  ARGhhhhh!!! 

Please bear with me.  I'm just venting....so right now my 21yo PPID/IR mare is the most stable horse I own.  Unbelievable!

Kerry in NY
Sept 2014

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