Date   

Cushings in a 19 year old gelding

Connie Hendrix
 

I am new to this group, but have just been advised that my MFT gelding has Cushing's - verified through blood work, etc.     He has the symptoms of hair not shedding out properly, loss of some weight but he has now developed patches of flaky skin and bald spots and has lost a lot of hair on his muzzle, etc.   Is this normal for a Cushing's horse, and if so, what can I do  besides pergolyde to treat him for symptoms such as these?


 Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions that you may have.



Re: Long Distance Transport,Supplements or Gear?

Tori Cullins
 

Thank you Kathy!

Tori and Orion, Hawaii (for now)
April 2015


Re: Jasper's Heaves keep flaring Up

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Corrine,

Triamcinolone is a long-acting glucocorticoid that can be used intra-muscularly and/or intra-articularly so good thing you didn't have the shot as that could have precipitated another laminitis episode. Wasn't that what the vet injected Jasper's joint with? Obviously, it's a delicate balance as steroids are some of the best meds to control breathing issues but causing laminits/founder is a pretty big negative side effect. More here:

http://equimed.com/drugs-and-medications/reference/triamcinolone

You shouldn't give vaccines to a compromised horse so giving a Strangles vaccine to Jasper wouldn't be a good idea. The neighbor's horses are a whole 'nuther story and they need to make an informed decision based on what is the best practice for their herd.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC support Team

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

ECHistory8






Re: Jasper's Heaves keep flaring Up

corrine haffner
 

Hi 

Vet came out no not dealing with strangles its a heave attack,no he didn't do a blood test for strangles. Did want to give triamcinolone,said it would keep jasper from having heave trouble for 3 months. 

No i didn't have the shot given, i don't know what it is or what side effects there are. So is the triamcinolone safe to use on a PPID horse.??  I never thought to ask vet what it was DUH..

We are only out 4 days on him being exposed to strangles,still no fever no swollen lymph nodes and no snotty nose. What about giving the intranasal vaccine?? would it stop a possible strangles outbreak,neighbors horses are at high risk,they share my fence line with my horses. 


Corrine & Jasper

MN 4/2014

ECHistory8






Re: Rectifying split Prascend dose

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Suzanne,

Given the current dosing situation, it doesn't sound like Monty has any pergolide veil issues. That test could have been run after he'd had a 2mg dose (or no dose) so with the unknown, and if he were here, I'd to just give him the 1.5mg, consistently once per day and retest in Aug to see how that was controlling things at the start of the seasonal rise. Make changes based on the info at that point. If he shows any veil issues once actually regularly on the drug then drop the dose back down to 1mg daily.

Need to make absolutely certain he is actually getting the meds reliably into him on a scheduled, daily basis. BO needs to understand not consuming the drug when administered is NOT an option and that his future health and soundness are at stake here.

Perfectly OK to leave 1/2 a pill overnight to use next day. Just store in a sealed container of some sort in the door of the fridge. I use an empty pill bottle when needed.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 

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CONTRIBUTING YOUR INFORMATION - HELP US TO HELP YOU

ThePitchforkPrincess@...
 

This is a very large group of horse owners with the potential for having a large database of information.  Well-documented scientific data (your case history) helps the ECIR Group gain the trust of science-based equine professionals and shows patterns that shape the protocols that helps so many PPID and IR horses and owners. Sharing your information is the best way to thank the ECIR Group's volunteers for their help. 


Please take the time to add or update your Case History.

 

 

HELP US TO HELP YOU:

For faster and more relevant answers, please include a link to your case history, photos etc, in your messages – to properly answer any questions the volunteers need to see a case history for your horse.

 

 

POSTING YOUR HORSE'S INFORMATION:

1. NEW Case Histories should now be posted in ECHistory8.

 

2. Full instructions and templates can be found in the main files folder 
9 Case Histories

 

3. Keep your case history safe! Avoid losing your information by following the simple instructions and tricks for posting and updating case histories in the document

“Warning for Naming Folders”.   

 

3. If you are updating an old Case History but there is no longer enough space on older history groups, feel free to move your information to ECHistory8.

 

<<< IMPORTANT >>>

4. Photos of any sort - this includes photos of text such as lab reports - should be posted in the PHOTOS SECTION of the ECHistory Group where your case history is posted.   Links to ECIR Case History Sites

 

If you had or have to move your Case History, you don't need to move your photos. Just be sure a link to them is posted in both your case history and your message signature.

 

As you can appreciate, there are just too many places information can be.  It is the responsibility of the uploader to note the urls and provide links whenever seeking advice from the volunteers. If you are unsure how to do this see the document "How to Make, Save and Post Signatures and Links". 

 

5.  Please check if you can add any information to the various Databases and Polls. Often overlooked, these tools gather the information Dr. Kellon needs to make and update the protocols that the group uses to help PPID and IR horses.   

For Neo Yahoo users, buttons/links to these locations can be found just under the any of the group's cover photos.

​​

For Classic Yahoo users these buttons/links are located in the top left-hand corner of the screen. Or you can click these links:

ECIR Pergolide Dosage Database

ECIR ​Databases

ECIR Polls

 

Thank you for your cooperation.

 

Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Team of the Equine Cushings List



Re: Jasper's Heaves keep flaring Up

Lesley Fraser
 

I think the incubation period for strangles is usually around 7 to 14 days, but apparently linked cases can have a gap of around 3 weeks between outbreaks. Has the vet carried out a strangles blood test on Jasper?

Good grief - you and Jasper are really going through it at the moment.

Hugs from us.

Lesley & Omar
2012, UK


Re: Rectifying split Prascend dose

Suzanne Mansolilli
 


---In EquineCushings@..., <shilohmom@...> wrote :
Also remember that the results are going to be a bit trickier to interpret as by the time you get to drawing the blood, there may be a seasonal rise influence coming into play.

---------------
Hi Lavinia,

Considering we'll be entering the seasonal rise by the time I get him titrated down to 1.5mg,  do you think I should just keep him at 2mg, but by gradually adding the afternoon dose to the morning dose as you described?

As far as the relation of time between his blood draw and his Prascend dose, I'm afraid I can't say.  We drew blood at 1pm.  His pill is given in a handful of Purina Wellsolve at 7am.  A few weeks back, I told the BO that it was ok to give both pills at once in the morning to save her time, not knowing the spacing was such a sensitive issue.  So now sometimes he eats one and leaves the other in the bowl until evening when they'll feed it by hand. Sometimes he'll eat both, sometimes they'll both sit til evening.  So he must be pretty screwed up now because of the inconsistency. I'll do my best to get him regulated.

If we go down to 1.5mg, I'll still have half a pill leftover overnight.  Is that ok? Or is it a reason to get compounded pills?

Thanks for the guidance,

SuzanneM & Monty

Western Colorado — July 2014

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Re: Long Distance Transport,Supplements or Gear?

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Tori,

I found an article from The Horse that came up in my search.  Hopefully, Members with first hand experience can you some suggestions with your flight preparation and timing for your horses upcoming move from Hawaii to Oregon.  

Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI  10/12

How to Reduce Transport Stress in Horses

 







Re: New Hay To high ESC + Starch

corrine haffner
 

Hay supplier has 22 bales of 8% ESC  so i'll have 18 10% ESC bales so looks like i'll soaking hay. I know nothing is carved in stone,i'll be soaking hay. Thanks lorna,i was just trying to find an easy way of doing things,i see now soaking is a must for jasper.

Being he's got heaves having his head stuck in a round bale is a bad idea.
Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014
ECHistory8



Natural Foods

Nancy C
 

A conversation concerning natural, whole foods came up on Dr Kellon's NRCPlus course, specifically concerning the use of one product being for an IR pony as a magic bullet. Senior ECIR member and ECIR nonprofit Research Director Kathleen wrote this great explanation that outlines this issues with many over-the-counter products and the marketing hype.
*********************
Horse People: What’s in that “Natural” Product?

A few years ago, I read the ingredients on a bag of Cheetos. One in particular caught my eye, “Ancient Sea Minerals.” OOOOOooo! That had to be good, right? Natural, ancient, from the sea. It turned out to be nothing more than calcium carbonate – the very same stuff our farm sits on – the ancient sea bed, complete with fossilized coral, mollusks, and other prehistoric sediment. I guess I could brag that our hay is grown on a “bed of an ancient sea” and that these “ancient sea minerals” enrich the grass naturally, yada-yada… you catch my drift. I mean, it is true. The analysis shows it, too. Hays in the Midwest are typically calcium rich – no surprise given where they’re grown.

This brings me to a recent review of an equine product that is marketed as a Multi Vitamin-Mineral Nutrition, a “Complete Whole Food Supplement” that contains a lot of nuts, seeds, fruits, etc. that would cost about a dollar a day to supplement. Knowing what I know from the tens of thousands of hay samples in the Equi-Analytical database plus several hundred of my own, the first thing I looked for was whether this supplement would fill the most common mineral deficiencies for zinc and copper. The minimum RDA for copper for an 1100 lb horse is 100 milligrams per day and for zinc, 400 milligrams/day. If fed at 2% body weight in forage/day – 22 lbs or 10 kg – the majority of hays are deficient for these two minerals, providing on average 80 mg of copper and 250 mg of zinc. Over time, these chronic deficiencies show up as rough, sun-bleached hair coats, and notably poor hoof quality. Anyway, back to that whole food supplement. A check of the guaranteed analysis shows that it has 15 ppm cooper and 50 ppm zinc. Does that tell you whether or not it meets basic nutrition needs? Of course not, because most people can’t translate ppm (parts per million) to milligrams in their head.

A quick method is to understand the PPM is equal to milligrams per kilogram. If there are 15 ppm of copper, that’s 15 milligrams per kilogram. How much is a kilogram? 2.2 lbs. Let’s pretend your forage is average and provides 80 milligrams of copper a day. You’re still short 20 milligrams. If you were going to try to make up the difference, to reach the bare minimum to prevent a frank mineral deficiency, you would need to feed, not the recommended 1 ounce serving, but nearly THREE POUNDS of this product per day just to meet your copper needs.

So what are you getting in a 1 ounce, $1.00/day serving? Some bananas, apples, sunflower seeds, oranges, cabbage, and some feel-goodies from going natural. What aren’t you getting – well, more correctly – what isn’t your horse getting? They’re still not getting what they need to correct the chronic frank mineral deficiencies. A 1 ounce serving contains 0.43 milligrams of copper and 1.4 milligrams of zinc. Look again. You need 100, you get less than 1/2 milligram of copper. You need 400, you get 1.4 milligrams of zinc. It costs 4 cents/day to supplement the correct amount of copper and zinc that will benefit your horse tremendously. Don’t fall for ad claims and pretty buckets. If you want to feed your horse nuts and berries, then do it, but make sure they get the trace minerals they need!
*********************

In addition to not meeting the needs of the equine, most of you know  already that the  ingredients in the above product would not be appropriate for an IR equine.

I know Kathleen would love to answer any questions. 

Lots more like this is in the message archives, the files and will be discussed in depth at teh NO Laminitis! Conference, November 6-8, 2015, Georgetown, Texas. www.nolaminitis.org

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Group Moderator 2003


To learn more about how diagnosis, diet, trim and exercise all come together in the prevention of and rehab from laminitis, please join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference in Georgetown, Texas, November 6-8. 13 hours of continuing education credit available. http://www.nolaminitis.org/…/program-schedule/guest-speakers




Re: New Hay To high ESC + Starch

Lorna Cane
 



>Even at 10% ESC + Starch i should soak?? 

It's not carved in stone,Corrine. 
If he were here, and had all the issues that your boy has,I would definitely soak the hay.

All a person can do is use all the information available , and make the best decision for the horse in question. The decision is yours.



Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup




Re: Jasper's Heaves keep flaring Up

corrine haffner
 

He's having a tough time humidity is up tonight to 89%,did the vicks again he's had two doses of albuterol 10 ml each. still coughing a lot, breathing is close to normal,his coughing is making him lose interest in eating.

He sounds congested when he coughs, i called vet before they closed said he'd come out in morning if he wasn't better.My mare never sounded congested when she had heave flare ups,so i wonder if its something else other then heaves??  He's got thick white snot running out his nose tonight,maybe he's clearing out mucus?? 

When exposed to strangles how long is the incubation period?? Think its been like 3 days or so,he was in contact with these horses who got strangles. Shared fence line.


Corrine & Jasper

MN 4/2014

ECHistory8






Long Distance Transport,Supplements or Gear?

Tori Cullins
 

Suggestions for supplements and gear for long distance transport of IR pony? Chronic laminitis since Dec. 2014, foundered in May 2015. Gets around well in boots. Hard to keep diet adequate and get good care in my location (Hawaii) so moving to southern Oregon. 


Orion (pony) has Soft Ride boots with the blue pad for the fronts and i'm using Swiss Horse Boots for the backs. I usually use rope halters and yacht rope leads. 


Both are on a mineral balanced diet (well, fairly balanced now, will be fully on next week), including flax, mag, and vit E. The vet has OK'd them for 2 tubes (4 days) of Ulcer Guard. No other recommendations given, I asked about ulcer prevention.  


They are flying out of Hawaii Aug 8. One hour trailering to airport, 2 hours before plane takes off, five hours in flight. Still unknown (I should call) how long they  will be on the ground in LA before they are commercially trailered to Oregon, maybe even be overnight or longer.However, once on the road again it will be about 12 hours to our new front door, if driving straight through. 


I also do not know , as of yet, what the plane or commercial trailer people will allow them to wear, ie shipping boots, etc. but it will be HOT outside.  


Maybe I should wait until September? It's hottest in Hawaii in Sept/Oct., humid, and doesn't cool off at night. Big temp differences between day and night in Oregon and should have cooled off quite a bit coming into fall (if I wait until Sept).  I'm thinking August,a s we're also likely to get hit by a hurricane this year and try get 'safe' food then... 


Tori and Orion, Hawaii

April 2015

ECHistory8



Re: New Hay To high ESC + Starch

corrine haffner
 

Even at 10% ESC + Starch i should soak?? Then i'll see if this hay supplier has hay that's 8% ESC + Starch really want to not have to soak hay,if possible. Then come winter i can just put out bales in hay feeder,well maybe, have the heave problem to deal with.

If he's like my mare was it shouldn't be an issue,that's a big IF. If i have to soak hay i will, i want whats best for him,if it means more work then i'll do what needs done.

Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014
ECHistory8



Re: New Hay To high ESC + Starch

Lorna Cane
 

> Going to be hard judge how sensitive he is when he's already very sore.

If he were my horse I'd be soaking it.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup





Re: New Hay To high ESC + Starch

corrine haffner
 

If i remember right he said it was 8% ESC and 2% starch. Going to be hard judge how sensitive he is when he's already very sore. It's got to be better then the alfalfa loaded hay i have now.
I'am just trying to find safe hay for him,sense he doesn't eat cubes reliably or any other feed for that matter. 

Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014
ECHistory8



Re: New Hay To high ESC + Starch

Lorna Cane
 

 

>So my question is,is 10% ESC + starch low enough to not soak?? 

It depends on how sensitive the horse is.
You should also be interested in the individual ESC and starch numbers.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup





Re: Grass Escapee

Michele Cameron
 

Thank you Maggie! Elijah seems fine today, we rode at 6am and he was happy...
I didn't have ice, so that is something to buy and put in the deep freeze, but I hosed him off several times
and his feet never felt warm or pulsey.. We are so blessed to have found this site before we had any lameness!
I keep him on a very tight diet, and although I can't bear to weigh out less hay, I have started taking a few handfuls out
of his daily ration to get him a bit leaner before I go on vacation as he will not have much exercise while I am gone. My scale is a bit heavy anyway, so it seems to work and he is looking a little leaner. My thought is that he will have room to gain a bit while I am gone rather than cut back his ration while I am gone.
BIG NEWS! MY VET HAS HAD A CHANGE OF HEART AND IS CALLING IN A SCRIPT FOR ME TO GET METFORMIN!
He must have been researching a bit, as he was not comfortable doing that so far! It will be nice to have that on hand in case we have a lengthier escape...
Gotta run, just wanted to let you all know that keeping on diet, exercise, & trim is fantastic. (I watched Pete Ramey's DVD's 3 x and now am filing him weekly as Elijah's feet are growing super fast, and I only like to file, not nip.) I have a trimmer who checks in on me monthly when she does our border's horse to make sure we are on the right track. The minerals from Horse Tec are working great... no muss, no fuss and he eats them with just 1 # OTBC & 4 oz. TC LITE. His feet are recovering from shoes and poor trim.
Thanks again & God bless you all,
 Michele & Elijah Mustang, Everson, Wa, Jan.2015


Re: hoof boots for tiny hooves?

chf1752@...
 

Thanks Bob.

None of my horses are stalled...the three of them share a dry lot with run-in. If I need to, I can divide off a section of the run-in if one of them needs it. Its a matter of making the area small enough for the horse to get to food/water....but large enough where they don't feel trapped. And most importantly, they can see/touch the other horses. I really don't like the way pea gravel gets into SoftRides, which is another part of the issue I have with them. 

Maybe if enough of us got together, EasyCare would start making their therapeutic boots in small sizes?

Erin
ME
2014

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