Date   

Re: Natural Foods

Michele Cameron
 

Thank you Nancy,
I will be saving this one to pass on!
Michele & Elijah Mustang, Everson, Wa, Jan.2015


Re: Long Distance Transport,Supplements or Gear?

janieclougher@...
 

Hi, Tori -

Jen McGeehan did the opposite trip to you with her 29 year old, PPID, recovered founder gelding Smoke - they loaded up and went to Hawaii.  There are a few good suggestions for traveling with compromised horses in the various posts to and from Jen. 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/157247

I am having a complete brain fart about the useful suggestions right now, but I know there was some good info.

Cheers,


Re: Natural Foods

corrine haffner
 


<<<Optimum EQ is primarily blue green algae. It is extremely dark green.
The tiny bits of dried veggies, fruits and nuts.>>>>

Hi Beverly 

I'v been following your post. Even just tiny bits of high sugar/starch fruits can be enough to set off a laminitis episode in an IR horse. That is what everyone on here is trying to point out to you, it doesn't have to be a huge amount for a sensitive horse.

Even that tablespoon a day of this supplement could have just enough tiny bits of fruits in it to keep your ginger laminatic or sore footed. 

I know from experience that jasper can't handle even a tiny amount of apple or carrot, just one tiny peice and he's sore footed next day. Something to think about,it took me a long time to come to the fact that my horse can't have treats loaded with sugar/starch not even a tiny little piece. 



Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014


Re: adding AAKG and ALCAR for laminitic mini?

chf1752@...
 

When I say I "put out 30lbs of hay", that doesn't mean they eat it all. They eat about 90% of what I put out. Also, my 250lb mini is very high maintenance since she's very active and high strung (its a battle to keep her body score a 5). The other two are very low maintenance.

When I did the trim pictured, I realized that things weren't going well. I was 2-3 trims in to experimenting with ELPO hoof mapping. I've since discarded that trim style and have gone back to a more barefoot style trim. I'll try to get pics tomorrow. 

Any tips for getting good hoof pics with an iPhone? The pics I'm getting look more distorted than the hoof I see in front of me. 

If she decides she wants to tear around the dry lot with her sister, is it ok to work her? Her pulses were normal last night and this afternoon.

How much work should she be getting? Will adding in some jumps help give her a more intense workout? Right now, I just don't have time to do the training I really want to do with her, so its free lunging for now. 

I have quite a bit of land, and also a lot of fence posts and fencing. If I make a paddock paradise setup, does it need to be a dry lot...or can there be grass and weeds? I have a 10 acre field and could fence off about 1/3 of it. The section I'm thinking about has a very steep hill, so she'd get quite a workout. This is just an idea...not at all saying I'd do this. It would be a cheaper option than expanding the dry lot, since I have all the materials and equipment. I really wish I lived in a desert, so I could give them as much room to run as possible. 

Can nibbling grass and weeds through the fence be enough of a trigger? The grass here is really stressed, since its been quite cold and we haven't gotten enough rain. Heck...I'm still blanketing my horses at night. I think the limited grass nibbling is a more likely trigger, since the hay I'm feeding is a rather low calorie hay. 

Would 10 grams of magnesium really be appropriate for a 300lb mini? 

Why is soaking the hooves in cold water appropriate? I thought that IR can cause poor circulation and putting the hooves in cold water would cause vasoconstriction. 

Erin
ME
2014


Re: How to find things in the ECIR Group. Save this post.

Suzanne Mansolilli
 

Hi--I'm just catching up reading yesterday's daily digest and came upon these posts about adding to the Pergolide database, Prascend experiences and navigating the website -- all things that are on my list of things to do -- and am trying to save the posts to my files, and for the life of me I can't figure out how to save a post.  Help, please!!

Thanks

Suzanne
Western Colorado 2014


Re: Jasper's Heaves keep flaring Up

corrine haffner
 

Hi 

Thank you Dr kellon, i had some Equi tussin for my mare,so i gave jasper a dose seems to help with coughing.
He is a little more better today,not coughing as much breathing is real close to normal. His temp was normal this  morning,will check again tonight at feeding time.

He's extremely sore footed and very stiff moving seems to help if i hand walk him for 5 minutes going his  pace very slow. 


Corrine & Jasper

MN 4/2014

ECHistory8

















Re: Natural Foods

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Beverly,

 

I would think with all the energy, time and conviction you have put into defending your supplementation of 1/2 oz. of Bio Star, which by your own description is a small amount of mostly blue green algae with peels and seeds in it to keep it from being blown away, you might consider putting the same effort into balancing Ginger's diet.

 

You have been an active EC/IR Member since June, 2014.  You are obviously aware that Diet is key to Ginger's recovery and well being; enough so that, in fact, you signed up for the NRC + Course.  So what gives??  Why not just read the materials and balance her diet and quit burning up your time on defending this product. To use Bio Star or not is, of course, your choice, but it appears that you are now locked onto it as the key to Ginger’s future success regardless of the actual analysis/contribution and any other factors that may be at or come into play in Ginger's health.  I really hope I am wrong about my observation.

 

 

 

Kathy Brinkerhoff

 

SE/WI  10/12

 





Re: Natural Foods

Nancy C
 

Many points missed again, Beverly, but by all means, let's carry on.

As Dr Kellon pointed out yesterday one ounce of freeze dried can be a lot  more potent.  What is the total esc and starch in this product?

What is the WEIGHT of your Tablespoon please?

I've used spirulina for years.  It is very much more dense that other powders. So how MUCH spirulina - by weight - is in one freeze dried ounce, please?  I was feeding 20 grams twice a day.  Does your product have an equivalent amount for a pony?  Say 10 grams twice a day?

You put any amount of spirulina in anything, and it will turn very dark green.

My product was properly packaged.

Recommend you calculate just how much synergy you get in a 27 gram serving of these antioxidants.

Glutamine (min): 1.058%, Aspartic Acid (min): 0.793%, Alanine (min): 0.779%, Arginine (min): 0.615%, Threonine (min): 0.562%, Tyrosine (min): 0.536%, Valine (min): 0.535%, Lysine (min): 0.518%, Leucine (min): 0.515%, Isoleucine (min): 0.421%, Phenylalanine (min): 0.396%, Glycine (min): 0.379%, Serine (min): 0.238%, Proline (min): 0.238%, Histidine (min): 0.209%, Tryptophane (min): 0.178%, Methionine (min): 0.146%, Cystine (min): 0.125%

It is not much. For example it is recommended a full size horse gets 22 grams of  L-Glutamine a day, when needed. A powerful anti-oxidant but most horses do not need to go through the extra expense once teh diet is balanced.

Your product at a full 27 gram serving gives...let's see...27 X 1.058% = 0.28566. Really?

Not very much.  Would someone check my math please?

Dr Kellon, is there anything about synergy other than marketing, please?

Thanks. 

Happy Fourth everyone in the USA.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Group Moderator 2003


To learn more about the impact of fructan, understanding and diagnosing PPID and IR, nutrition, the foot, how it all comes together in the prevention of and rehab from laminitis, please join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference in Georgetown, Texas, November 6-8. 13 hours of continuing education credit available. http://www.nolaminitis.org/…/program-schedule/guest-speakers







---In EquineCushings@..., <bmeyer@...> wrote :

To answer the weight question:
Optimum EQ is primarily blue green algae. It is extremely dark green.
The tiny bits of dried veggies, fruits and nuts give it a blending base
and provide something you can lift with a little scoop without it
blowing away.


Re: Natural Foods

beverly meyer
 

To answer the weight question:
Optimum EQ is primarily blue green algae. It is extremely dark green.
The tiny bits of dried veggies, fruits and nuts give it a blending base and provide something you can lift with a little scoop without it blowing away.
The powder is extremely light weight, therefore by weight it is farther down the list than heavy foods such as seeds or orange peel.
The combo provides a synergistic antioxidants blend. One of the main reasons for MovEase and PhytoQuench are that they also are edible antioxidants with ingredients that don't list on the label as there are hundreds of micronutrients there.
A tablespoon a day is all... She is not getting cup fulls of orange peel and fat!
Thanks, and there's a bit more in the conversations history for blue green spirulina, but only buy it properly packaged.
Beverly 6/14


Re: adding AAKG and ALCAR for laminitic mini?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Erin,

Totally get the "life blowing up part" way toooo well. It happens. You can only do what you can do. Sometimes that works really ell, others times not so much.

At the combined weights of the three, total hay needed would be no more than 26lbs, so with 30lbs being available she is getting too much. This helps explain why she is carrying too much weight. Sounds like between the excess weight and suddenly not getting the exercise put her over the edge into mild laminitis. Finding a way to better control her food intake and increasing the exercise would be tops on my list. Instituting a paddock paradise is a great idea - says she who also has that on her bucket list.

When things settle down for you again, increasing her exercise time should be a priority. !0-20 min, 3 times per week is barely enough to make a dent, although is certainly better than nothing.

What a cutie :)

From the pix (thanks for those), the trim has gotten away from being optimal. Toes are quite long, heels run under. Likely, there is an overall excess amount of hoof height but would need laterals to confirm that. The frogs, heels and soles have migrated forward so are distorting the trimming landmarks. This means that the hoof form isn't as tight as it should be so any insults to the feet are likely to have greater impacts. Need to work on backing up the toes/heels to where they are at their structural strongest.

If she' mildly sore, yes adrenaline bursts can make her ignore mildly sore feet and take off. Cold hosing/icing, reducing total amount of food she ingests, getting rid of access to the greenies, realigning the trim are your goals here. Boots and pads if needed for now. Check the file here for things to do in an emergency when horse gets out on grass as it sounds as if she has had a similar type of trigger:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Emergency%20Protocols/

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team





Re: Tofurky mark-ups

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Lj,

I know it's a bit cumbersome to pop back and forth between the analysis and the pix, that's why I label each section of the narrative the same as the corresponding picture. It's also why I include the link to the album where the pictures are uploaded in the post, so it is readily available to anyone following that thread.

Sorry, I'm somewhat techie challenged so I don't know what "using a flicker photo" means. If it means adding an attachment to the narrative - that isn't allowed on the list so wouldn't be plausible. I am assuming you read messages from the Digest format and that Yahoo automatically includes any new photos in the digest? If so, do the labels not appear with the pictures? As I don't use the digest format I am unfamiliar with how it functions. Appreciate anyone who can enlighten me on this.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: wanted info on lysine. sue & princess / found a great abscess buster!!

sue wolf <wolffarm4@...>
 

Hi Lavinia,
I'm holding up so so. I'm seeing small improvement in princess so that's good.. its costing us lots but whats money compare to her life..
shes on a balance diet. the only thing that was added was more timothy cubes. I'm going to add the amo.. acid from horse tech to her diet this week I'm going to order it.  I'm watching her diet very closely. not mixing things that shouldn't be and over dosing her..
we are now getting ready to do new hay so things will be changes up some when we get the new hay balanced.
the vet was out yesterday again to did the leg infusion thing. I think that's what she called it.. she put a rubber band thing around her ankle and from the culture we got. the medican was but in the veins below  and she said it was pressurized thing to help force it in to all the veins in the bottom of her foot area and it could help open up some that could be closed and the rubber band stayed on for 20 minutes and then taken off.
when the vet was first out and took the x-rays she has lots of bone loss in her coffin bone from the infection. I'm still tiring to get them my computer is not comparable with her system.. still working on it. she was not rotated and had lots of sole. it is the abases that is  all the problems now. this new vet is from cleveland equine and shes  aggressive on this she but princess at a high risk and would not give me a % on if we could save her.. she said this is one of the worse cases she's seen. 
when she came out yesterday to do this stuff she was really impressed on how well she was and she said she was turning around really fast and if everything keeps going like it is she should be ok.. we took the bandage off her hoofs and the hoofs were a lot better. the spot were the hoof wall was taken off is dry and hard and the bottom front had a little soft tissue in it but she said I'll just do the cleantrx next week again and it will help keeping things going forward..
I have to pack them with iodine 10% nothing less.. I'll have photos when I change them tomorrow but there be a little purple..  
its been such a long road..
shes kinda funny on her back legs.. she not sure when she walks that the fronts not going to hurt like it did. I have to stretch out her back legs because shes been standing like that so long her muscles  are kinda messed up.. 
were get there. its only going to take a lot more time and tlc.. 
sincerely,
Sue & princess
oh 6/11



On Friday, July 3, 2015 11:56 AM, "shilohmom@... [EquineCushings]" wrote:


 

Hi Sue,

Vit C is not recommended for an IR horse as it increases absorption of iron and horses do produce their own. Adding lysine may be of benefit but will really depend on what is already in her diet - extra not always better. Have you worked with anyone on balancing her minerals until this most recent spate of setbacks? If so, the same person should be able to help in adjusting things for her to optimize her healing so you aren't wasting money by taking shots in the dark.

The CleanTrax is a great, safe, effective product when needed - glad it was recommended to you.

How is Princess doing today? How are you holding up?

Hugs to you both.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team




Re: Jasper's Heaves keep flaring Up

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 




I don't think this is Strangles related because the minimum time for symptoms to show after exposure is around 3 days and he had trouble before then **but** can't completely rule out that it isn't flared up because of fighting off Strangles.  He could also have a bronchitis from some other bacteria on top of the heaves. Keep taking his temperature and if not improving still by next week ask for a CBC.

If you can locate an "old timer" equine or cattle vet you could ask about the sodium iodide injection I mentioned before, and oil of camphor injection. Oldies but goodies!  Could also try 3 to 4 oz 2 to 3 times daily of:

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=e10c3252-6644-4467-862f-9f8b40722387

Give after eating.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001
 


ECIR FILES - SEARCH-AND-CLICK TABLE OF CONTENTS

ThePitchforkPrincess@...
 

To quickly find information in the files use the ECIR Files Table of Content

Note: the above link takes you to a Dropbox document containing the latest PDF version of the TOC.

 

The ECIR Table of Contents (TOC) lists all documents in the all ECIR Groups Files sections. Case Histories, Hay Analysis, Member Work Sheets and Photos have been excluded.  In the TOC you will also find "Also See" sections linking to information that cannot be found in the files. 

Links to the ECIR files go to folders, not the exact documents.  Therefore after clicking you'll have to scroll through the folder to find and open the specific document you are looking for.


File inquiries, comments, suggestions, reports of broken links or missing documents can be sent to LeeAnne at ECIR.Archives <at> gmail <dot> com or posted in the ECIR Group.

Many of the ECIR Groups' files are in PDF format requiring Adobe Reader to view them. Get a free version here


Some files are in Microsoft Excel format. Get a free reader here

If you have difficulty opening files, contact the EquineCushings-owner@ yahoogroups.com 

Thank you for your cooperation.

Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Teams of the Equine Cushings Lists​​



Re: Jasper's Heaves keep flaring Up

Lorna Cane
 




>............if jasper could say thank you i'am sure he would. 


He's saying it,Corrine. He's fighting the good fight.






Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup














Re: Jasper's Heaves keep flaring Up

corrine haffner
 


<<<Spoken like a true warrior.

I can feel about 12,000 heads in the room, nodding in agreement .>>>


Lorna, you really made my day it sure helps to know i'v got so many people on here who truly care. I'v done nothing but ask for help the last few months.  

And i'll be asking for yet more advice still have lots going on with jasper...I'am truly grateful for all the help, if jasper could say thank you i'am sure he would. 


Corrine & Jasper

MN 4/2014

ECHistory8

















Re: Tofurky mark-ups

lj friedman
 

Have you ever tried using flicker photo right next to your analysis and corrections needed for each hoof?   I read all your posts but find it hard to follow which foot is which pic?   It seemed very smooth to click on the flickr photo included in the email?   lj friedman.. san diego


Re: adding AAKG and ALCAR for laminitic mini?

chf1752@...
 

I don't know exactly how much hay she eats every day, since she lives with my old pony and her sister. She's 300lbs, the pony is about 750lbs and her sister is about 250lbs. I put out about 30lbs of hay a day for them (half in the morning, half in the afternoon), and there's always some leftover the next day.

She was getting free lunged for 10-20 minutes 3 times a week. Then my personal life kinda blew up, and I haven't been able to work her for about 3 weeks. She and her sister do run and play in the dry lot, but I don't know how much time they spend playing. I was planning to expand their dry lot into a more Paddock Paradise type set up, but I'm behind on getting that done.

Yes, there is some grass she can get to through the fencing. I am planning to board up that section of fence, so she can't get to it. 

She's on CTB since she still has a little bit of her winter coat on her face that hasn't shed out. Everything else shed out fine. Though the weather here has been really nutty. Kinda cold at night. A couple weeks ago we went from 80 during the day to 37 at night. She also has some fattiness around her udder. 

She's driving me kinda crazy. She was standing in a bit of a founder stance, breathing fast, acting a little depressed with strong pulses before I fed her this afternoon. After I fed her, she ran off. Can she still feel good enough to run in very early stages of laminitis?

This is her from a couple days ago. 




I'll work on getting some more current pics of her and her hooves. Right now I'm off to track down some boot options.

Erin
ME
2014


Re: Jasper's Heaves keep flaring Up

Lorna Cane
 



>To be honest it hasn't been easy for me to make the necessary changes in diet and 

firing the farrier. Biggest one is speaking up when vet want's to give medicine that 

jasper shouldn't have.



Spoken like a true warrior.

I can feel about 12,000 heads in the room, nodding in agreement .




Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup








Re: Jasper's Heaves keep flaring Up

corrine haffner
 

Hi 

Thanks kerry for the help,i barrowed a fly sheet from a friend to see if it would help,before i go buying one. No never have used the absorbine ultrasheild in the black bottle,will have to give it a try.Not sure he'll keep on fly leg protectors though,loves to take his leg wraps off.

He has improved a bit more today not a heavey as he was,and he's been in barn over 24 hours. Do have a big fan to help move the air. 

I'am trying real hard here to get things right for him,but its slow to happen think were moving in the right direction. I read on here a lot trying to learn all i can then put it to use for jasper,then i ask a ton of questions.

Thank you again this group is great,i'v learned so much and i'am still learning. To be honest it hasn't been easy for me to make the necessary changes in diet and firing the farrier. Biggest one is speaking up when vet want's to give medicine that jasper shouldn't have.


 Corrine & Jasper
MN 4/2014

ECHistory8





90901 - 90920 of 282208