Date   

Re: Frequency of body clipping?

 

Hi LJ,

I happen to be online so ill offer this:

As long as you're willing and able to blanket as necessary come winter, then its perfectly fine to body clip now.  Our horses here in NY have already shed & have starting growing their winter coats, so a body clip now, once the winter coats begin, can alter the eventual heating efficiency that an unclipped horse might enjoy, but you being in south Cali prob lessens that possibility to almost nil  ;)

If you havent clipped in years past, be prepared for Jesse to possibly become a whole new...unusual...color, which may permeate thru til Spring (again, bc the tips of the developing winter coats are sheared off). But, since all of our horses on here are on balanced, healthy diets (presuming), you should still find a beautiful gleaming Jesse under the fluff--just possibly a different-colored Jesse!

Personally I keep both of my IRs body clipped year round; my PPID mare doesnt have hirsutism yet (thick wavy coat) but bc she's part draft with naturally longish, coarse hair I usually body clip the torso monthly from May thru Oct (meaning, wherever theres large muscle mass, for maximal heat dissipation). I use this example to show that frequent clipping does no damage to horse nor hide, though does incur aggravation to the poor person doing the clipping (ie, me). ;)

Best of luck, no doubt Jesse will relish his nakedness. How's he doing with his exercise regimen?

Kerry in NY
Sept 2014



Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 19, 2015, at 12:26 PM, lj_friedman@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

 

I read archives and it seems appropriate to clip at this time. thanks.


Re: Frequency of body clipping?

lj friedman
 

I read archives and it seems appropriate to clip at this time. thanks.


Frequency of body clipping?

lj friedman
 

Jesse was full bodclipped  on  June 06, 2015.. We are having some heat here.. 98 degrees, etc and I notice some light sweating.. Could be part of seasonal rise as well.   June 06 was his first body clip.. Is it fine to do another full clip now?  lj friedman san diego nov 2014


Re: Should I increase to 3.0mg now??

Nancy C
 

Hi LJ

Not going to make the decision for you.  Will tell you what I would do given his history:

Monitor his symptoms like a hawk and if your gut is telling you to go up, then do so. We are not there with you so you need to develop the skill necessary to keep careful control.

Here's a good message on monitoring symptoms you've probably seen before. Reading again may give you a new appreciation.  Posting also for new folks.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/111988

 

also....


Seasonal Rise When to Test ACTH Message by Eleanor


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/132334

 


Good info on ecirhorse.org.

Seasonal Rise

 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Group Moderator 2003

Why do herbal remedies not control PPID? To learn more about the understanding and diagnosing PPID and IR, nutrition, the foot, how it all comes together in the prevention of and rehab from laminitis, please join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference in Georgetown, Texas, November 6-8. 13 hours of continuing education credit available.

Guest Speakers

 








---In EquineCushings@..., <lj_friedman@...> wrote :

My feeling is that I should increase now to 3.0mg.. but I'd prefer if the experts here can make the decision for me.. thanks





Re: Ford: New hoof photos

 

Thank you, Lavinia, for your feedback. I'm glad we are on the right track. Ford is completely out of boots and moving much better, thanks to your guidance. Many thanks!

Fran, Ford and Tinker in Texas
7/2005

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Ford%20Case%20History/



ECHistory8

 


Re: Excessive drinking & Peeing

corrine haffner
 

Hi Kerry

Don't like hearing ppid might not be controlled, he's on 3 mg of pergolide now,he's improved in many ways except the excessive drinking & peeing. Won't being uncontrolled IR make them sensitive also?,i'am thinking so,he doesn't get depressed just sore footed after eating a bite or two of grass. Don't remember his numbers after i plugged them into IR calculator think he was considered IR. I'am also switching him over to ODTB cubes for main part of diet,so diet will be balanced. 

Today is day two of being on 3 mg of pergolide,maybe it will take a bit longer to get all under control?? that's what i'am thinking.

The salt/vinegar mix i'am using is same but salt is mortons table salt not epsom salt,just might be why its not killing grass off. Last time i did it jasper decided he likes the taste of the stuff so go figure,i'll try the epsom salt see if that works better. Have the big guns for killing grass if not.

I added another strand of hot fence so its two inch's off the ground,he just gets down on his knees and gets his head just far enough under to reach grass. He did get shocked this morning in his effort to get grass, gave up the grass snatching for now. Guess i'll have to take the bobcat out pull fence post and scrape up all the green stuff again go 5 feet beyond fence line. After i scrape grass down to dirt i'll try putting mulch down have like 20 bags of the stuff. Step dad had it and gave it to me for whatever reason.

Cant put boards along bottom of fence have metal fence post,had wooden ones but he and chardonnay took up wood eating,over winter and literally ate through a post a night. That was two winters ago by spring fence was barely standing up. Guess i need to move to the desert then i wouldn't have grass issues, out of two horses only one can go out on pasture.  Thanks Kerry for all the ideas i now have some good ideas to get rid of grass,still think moving to the desert is the best idea...


Cornell Blood Handling Instructions

 

This is what I found on Cornell's web site

https://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/docs/Equine_Cushings_Tests.pdf


Good Luck

Jean and Amber
in South Carolina
August 2004



Re: Excessive drinking & Peeing

 

Hi Corrine,

My mare was similarly sensitive to grass when her ppid was still undercontrolled. Even one or two bites of tall grass or "side shrubs" on a trail ride was enough to render her devastatingly depressed the next day. She would also be tender footed

Which vinegar recipe are you using?  I use this and it really does work to kill the grass!  

2 cups Epsom salts
1 gallon vinegar (i use white)
1/4 cup Dawn dishsoap (the blue original)

Salts dissolve easily and one application on a dry day kills most grass. Kills it, not just browns it.  I usually spray a second round the next day to be extra safe. Its been over a month on my geldings paddock and no grass has returned along the fenceline. 

Warning though, apparently *some* horses are not deterred by the foul vinegar taste and will still happily eat the freshly-sprayed grass stubs (my mare), while most are so offended by the smell they seek refuge in the farthest paddock corner & curl their lips (my gelding) 

Weeds I find need two good drenchings of the above...or Ive found its easiest to just pull them out by hand and be done with it

Other options:
-a second electric wire lower than current one?
-boards along bottom of fence?
-other barriers:  cinderblocks, large rocks?
-smothering methods:  weedcloth, tarps, etc?  I pile woodchips on outside of my fenceline abt 6" deep
-digging up grass by roots?  Not fun but will definitely end the problem!

Sorry if some are silly; i know youve been thru sooooo much and now even with light on the horizon youre still facing daily obstacles. Just brainstorming for ya!  :)

Give the vinegar concoction above a try--i was skeptical but it definitely works for me.  Im guessing ill have to do it weekly or so in spring when theres rampant grass growth but this time of year it seems one good soaking has killed the grass for 4+ weeks. 

Best of luck to you & the Jas man,
Kerry

Sept 2014, NY



Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 17, 2015, at 5:35 PM, sassafrass45@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

 

Hi 

Thank you,Bonnie for some reason jasper has become ultra sensitive to just small amounts of grass or weeds. So i have to kill all grass & weeds from corral and fence line in one time. He's comes up sore or short strided within 12 hours of grass in take, reason its critical i get the grass & weeds gone.

All's good till the rain come's tomorrow to wash away the salt vinegar mixture,which i find turns grass brown then it re greens within 4 to 5 days.All it does now is rain every other day so weeds and grass survive all attempts to kill it. 

I'll do the roundup, see if i can't clear other corral of grass & weeds then put jasper in there till his corral is weed & grass free. 


photos of 3 day with maggots. and question for anyone who's done this.. sue & princess

sue wolf <wolffarm4@...>
 

hello,
yes its me again,
Ive gotten a little use to the maggots, still don't like them. this is the 3 day and in her reg hoof I had a lot that came out, I would say 50 to 100 or maybe more.. club, maybe 25 max..
so I need to was them out in 5 days the hoof. what would be the best to use for that.. I have clean trax. but I hate to use the whole bottle if there's something Else I can use? what did everyone else use when they use the maggots. also should I pack the hoof with something after I do the washing out of the hoofs?
thanks for all your help and support..
sincerely,
Sue & princess
oh 6/11


Re: Excessive drinking & Peeing

corrine haffner
 

Hi 

Thank you,Bonnie for some reason jasper has become ultra sensitive to just small amounts of grass or weeds. So i have to kill all grass & weeds from corral and fence line in one time. He's comes up sore or short strided within 12 hours of grass in take, reason its critical i get the grass & weeds gone.

All's good till the rain come's tomorrow to wash away the salt vinegar mixture,which i find turns grass brown then it re greens within 4 to 5 days.All it does now is rain every other day so weeds and grass survive all attempts to kill it. 

I'll do the roundup, see if i can't clear other corral of grass & weeds then put jasper in there till his corral is weed & grass free. 


Re: Excessive drinking & Peeing

Bonnie
 

Hi Corrine,

After using salt and 10% vinegar, and finding the grass came back in 3 weeks, I resorted to Roundup. I roped off a section at a time, and kept Lad off treated areas for a week or 10 days. I am also using the wet shavings from his stall along under the fence line to (hopefully) smother emerging grass. I hired 2 guys with gas-powered weed-whackers to clear a strip outside the fence. It has been an expensive and difficult operation, with old cow pasture next to one side of Lad's track, and forest trying to take over from the other side.

 The Roundup has been the most effective, though previous experience showed that grass will creep back, though it takes 3 years to be as plentiful as at the beginning. Next time I will stock up on Roundup concentrate, as the little local hardware does not carry it.

Bonnie Ivey, Ontario 12/08
Lad, IR/PPID


Re: Blood handling question

Deidre Allen
 

Dr. Kellon,

When shipping frozen serum cross country packed in ice overnight, it still might thaw some but still stay chilled. Would that be detrimental to any of these tests: KSU iron panel,  ACTH, insulin, and glucose? 

Is it better not to freeze glucose; just keep it chilled?

Like some of the others here, I'm needing to pull blood samples mid-week, hold them in the freezer over the weekend, then send on Mon.

Deidre
PNW 2002


The serum for KSU's iron panel has to be handled exactly the same way as samples for ACTH - separate ASAP, decant into plastic tube, freeze and keep frozen during shipping.


Eleanor in PA


Should I increase to 3.0mg now??

lj friedman
 

My feeling is that I should increase now to 3.0mg.. but I'd prefer if the experts here can make the decision for me.. thanks




Expand Messages
  • lj_friedman
    Jul 24

    Jesse's labs


                        3/02/15         5/04/15         7/2015

    acth          40.7                32.4                46.8

    insulin      35.89              31.92              55.64

    leptin         3.18                2.86                 4.26

    glucose     97                   86                  110


    Prascend  1.0 mg was started 01/02/15.  After the 5/04/15 labs, prascend was increased to 1.5 m and after 7/20 labs I am currently at 2.5mg.  Should I now increase to 3.0 mg and hold?  .  lj friedman san diego nov 2014

  • ECHistory8




Re: Blood handling question

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The serum for KSU's iron panel has to be handled exactly the same way as samples for ACTH - separate ASAP, decant into plastic tube, freeze and keep frozen during shipping.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: Excessive drinking & Peeing

corrine haffner
 

Hi 

Thank you Nancy, what does everyone here do to keep your IR, PPID horses from eating every blade of grass that pops up?? Jasper has the art of snaking his head under fence to eat every little bite of grass, and this is his cause of coming up short of stride.  Even with hot wire 5 inches off ground he still gets head under it and doesn't get shocked !

He got more green over night and is well walking like on egg shells today. I spent over 3 hours spraying with the salt, vinegar mix. Problem is it works for a short time then grass greens up, we keep getting rain so grass revives with in days. 

Got roundup to kill every thing green, has anyone used this?? it needs to stay dry for 24 hours after applying so can't do it till thursday. Also think i'll need to keep him away from treated area,so it means locked up in barn for i think 24 hours or maybe 48 hours got to look at label. 

Thank's
Corrine & Jasper 


Re: Blood handling question

 

Hi Patty,

The split shipment may be something as simple as they had a few more Lyme samples to draw for other clients and wanted to send everything together. There are multi-horse submission forms for this very purpose (think:  a barnful of Coggins' draws). It may have been a matter of simplifying paperwork. Another scenario might be that your vet submits to a local lab (ie, Antech, Idexx, etc) who then in turn handles the shipping to Cornell for them, which reduces much hassle. Usually depends on what type of contract pricing each individual clinic has with their local lab. Sometimes its cheaper to send to Cornell directly; other times its easier and possibly cheaper to just let the local lab handle it. 

Regardless, Cornell runs specific tests only on certain days of the week, so the split shipment of your samples probably wont matter in timeliness of results. 

Kerry in NY
Sept 2014

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 17, 2015, at 12:29 PM, Patty Sobel psobel_gen@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

 

Thank you, Kerry.  That puts my mind at ease.

I was most surprised by the delay - it's not typical for my vet's office.  No point in going through this and paying lots of money only to have inaccurate results.  They have now said that they did send the ACTH in last week, but for some reason not the Lyme and I don't know about the KSU.  Libby has been battling IR forever, and we're not having much luck getting her Lyme under control yet.

Patty and Libby
Laurel, MD 
May 2008


From: "Kerry Isherwood Twinoats@... [EquineCushings]" <EquineCushings@...>
To: "EquineCushings@..." <EquineCushings@...>
Sent: Monday, August 17, 2015 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: [EquineCushings] Blood handling question

 
Re:  acth
If sample was spun & separated correctly within four hours of drawing and then frozen since with no thaw, then it will be fine to send today but must be overnighted on ice packs, esp with extreme hot weather in NY

All other bloodwork should be fine if refrigerated since draw...glucose will likely be abnormally low, given length of time, though

I have had to draw blood on my ppid mare for ACTH late in the week when all was calm due to potentially "stressing events" on the weekend (shows, etc) and spun/separated & then froze sample for several days, mailed out Monday am -- same scenario as you describe -- and im confident my results are accurate (from handling standout) bc I've personally spoken to the endocrinology vets at Cornell's lab re this protocol. 

Not as familiar with KSU's iron panel protocols, but its a simple serum sample which general is "hardy"

I think your samples are fine, but welcome others' input. 

Kerry in NY
Licensed vet tech
Sept 2014

Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 17, 2015, at 11:06 AM, Patty Sobel psobel_gen@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

 
Hi all,

My vet was out last Tuesday to draw blood for these tests:

 1) ACTH, Insulin and Glucose (Cornell)
 2) Lyme Multiples (Cornell)
 3) Iron panel (KSU)

I have just learned that the vet's office is only TODAY sending out the blood work.  I told them not to bother for the ACTH, because the sample won't, at this point, yield accurate results.  I'm assuming that it's the same for the Lyme and KSU tests?

Could someone please point me to a document with the blood handling instructions?  I tried to find it on Cornell's website but couldn't find anything that mentioned time frames.  Needless to say, I'm quite annoyed and have asked that they redraw the samples without charging me.  

Thanks!
Patty and Libby
Laurel, MD
May 2008


Libby's case history:




Re: Raised ACTH levels

Kath Slinger
 

Hi Lavinia,

Thanks for your reply. The lab is Liphook in the UK. 
Many thanks, 
Kath and Shannon (UK)


On 17 Aug 2015, at 18:01, shilohmom@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kath,

What lab is this? The ACTH result is above what the lab has as the high normal so no, it isn't OK. Best practice is to try to maintain the ACTH solidly within the normal range at all times. As the seasonal rise is just starting, this means that ACTH is going to continue to rise even higher thru Oct for PPID horses. I agree that raising the perg (Prascend) dose is in order. If this was one of mine, I'd be raising it to 2.5mg, then again up to 3mg to try to get on top of the rising ACTH. Ideally, would want to re-test in Oct to see how things were at that point. You don't want a laminitis flare to be the OOPS! signal that the pergolide dose wasn't high enough.


Would ask that you please add your general location to your future posts. Thanks.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Re: Ford: New hoof photos

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Fran,

Things are improving, so that's good. Toe length is much improved, heels are starting to move back to where they need to be. LF toe looks like it may need to come back a bit more but other three look OK at this point.

Overall, I'd be concentrating on getting those heel flares brought in even more aggressively. There appears to be a pattern that is left over from the original farrier: On the right feet, the lateral bar is more upright and appears a bit taller while the medial bar is rolled outward more and the flaring is worse medially. On the left feet, the medial bars are more upright and appear a tad taller while the lateral bars are rolled outward and the flaring is worse laterally.

Just continue keeping the toes backed up, heels buttresses moving backward and controlling the flaring until it has all grown out.

How does Ford feel about the changes?

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

ECHistory8

 


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Ford%20Case%20History/






Re: Raised ACTH levels

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Kath,

What lab is this? The ACTH result is above what the lab has as the high normal so no, it isn't OK. Best practice is to try to maintain the ACTH solidly within the normal range at all times. As the seasonal rise is just starting, this means that ACTH is going to continue to rise even higher thru Oct for PPID horses. I agree that raising the perg (Prascend) dose is in order. If this was one of mine, I'd be raising it to 2.5mg, then again up to 3mg to try to get on top of the rising ACTH. Ideally, would want to re-test in Oct to see how things were at that point. You don't want a laminitis flare to be the OOPS! signal that the pergolide dose wasn't high enough.

Would ask that you please add your general location to your future posts. Thanks.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Re: No carrots

ferne fedeli
 

For what it's worth, I also give my Magic his Pergolide in a small piece of carrot.  It also seems to be the only thing he will readily accept--after trying everything else on the planet (well, almost!).  I use a slice of a big carrot and punch a small hole in the center with the paring knife and stick the pill in the hole.  I then give it to him and follow with 3 pieces of half ODTB cubes... He gobbles it up and has been doing so for most of this year, so hope he continues...
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010​

On Sun, Aug 16, 2015 at 5:17 PM, lj_friedman@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
 

Jesse, severe IR has no carrots offered to him.. To give him his prascend, 2.5mg and 2.5 tablets I bake the flax treats many of us use.. cinnamon, unsweetened applesauce.. etc..  But. he will no longer accept this  treat.. My plan B is to toss the meds in with a small bunch of his timothy pellets.. Because he is a sloppy eater.. and some leave the bucket. I can no longer guarantee that he is getting all of his prascend. and he often wont eat all the tablets.   So, for the last few days I've used a small piece of carrot and shove the pills into the carrot. The size of the carrot is very small. about the size of one of those mini-carrot stubs  sold in the grocery stores. My question, is this ok?  He wont eat a grape, a prune, celery etc. and mixing with his pellets is no longer working either. He will eat this carrot and chew and eat it  completely with nothing dropping out of his mouth,  as I watch him.. which is what I want to see.  

lj friedman san diego nov 2014

 ECHistory8

ECHistory8
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--
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
4/2010

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