Date   

Re: Jasper's Lyme Results

Nancy C
 

IME, hungry all day is part of uncontrolled IR.

You need to do what you need to do to avoid choke. 

Some members have used large rocks in the feed pan/bucket to slow them down. Psyllium previously mentioned.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference, Georgetown TX, November 6-8, 2015
 
www.nolaminitis.com




---In EquineCushings@..., <sassafrass45@...> wrote :



With no hay in diet i feel like i need to give more then 22 lbs of cubes,i know i run the risk of him getting to fat,i don't know what else to do other then feed 30 lbs a day.He hungry all the time...


Re: Metabarol for IR?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

I'll try to get a dialogue going with Dr. Adams.  Time short this week though so please send me an e-mail next Monday and remind me.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: Jasper's Lyme Results

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 


---In EquineCushings@..., <sassafrass45@...> wrote :

I called cornell and blood for lyme test was more then likely missed handled to get the results jasper had. I then called vet clinic and talked to them,and the blood samples were not taken care of in a timely fashion.

= = = = = =

Could you be more specific?  Exactly how was the sample mishandled?  What is "taken care of in a timely fashion"?  What effect did these sample handling errors have on the results?

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: Metabarol for IR?

 

Sorry for the partial earlier post.


Dr Kellon, would you consider going direct with the president of the company, who responded to my questions this morning, to ask for the study data? I can provide his email address, and his phone is shown below. Or get the study data from the researchers? The lead researcher in the AQHA financed study was Amanda A. Adams, contact details at http://www2.ca.uky.edu/gluck/AdamsAA.asp   I’m out of my depth with the statistical details, recognizing only that this is a very small study of a short duration.


Answers: No, there were no diet changes, all horses were dry-lotted on hay, and no, neither metformin nor levothyroxine were administered. Control horses received only the yeast as a placebo. The study duration was 45 days in the autumn. The reduction in insulin levels in EMS horses administered Metabarol daily (45 day study duration), versus placebo, was statistically significant at the alpha = 0.05 level. 


In any event I'm unwilling to cut Satra's hay from 1 ¾ %/BW to 1 ½ %. Her grass hay diet hasn't changed significantly since I recognized she was PPID in 2012 or has only become more strict, so the doubling of her insulin within the past 6 months is independent of diet changes. We're working on getting new blood tests done at the same time of day as earlier tests to remove that variable  from the equation.


I take the liberty of copying the email.

----------------------------

Hello Cass,


Thank you for your interest in Metabarol. One thing I would like to point out is that the researchers performing this study used the Scientific Method in designing and executing this study. In keeping with the Scientific Method, the study was designed such that as few variables as possible were modified or changed before and during the study such that there is maximal statistical power in determining if there indeed is a significant effect of an independent variable, which in this case is whether or not an EMS horse received Metabarol or placebo. The dependent variable in this study is the insulin level of the horse or concentration of inflammatory mediators present in the blood. Please see answers to your specific questions below.


Were the diets of the two groups identical before & during the study? 


Yes, the diets of the horses were identical before and during the study. All horses were maintained on a dry lot and fed only hay. The control group also received placebo (yeast, Sacharromyces cerevisiae, carrier in Metabarol) daily, while the treatment group received Metabarol daily. 


Were there diet changes during the study? What time of year? Were Metformin or levothyroxine administered?


The diets were not changed during the study. Changing the diet during the study would introduce a confounding variable. Metformin NOR levoythyroxine were not administered to control or treatment group horses.  The study was designed to determine if Metabarol administration reduced insulin levels in EMS horses. Therefore, there would be no reason to administer Metformin or Levothyroxine. The study was performed in Autumn.


The demonstrated capability of Metabarol to reduce insulin levels in EMS horses IS INDEPENDENT OF DIET. The reduction in insulin levels in EMS horses administered Metabarol daily (45 day study duration), versus placebo, was statistically significant at the alpha = 0.05 level. 


Thanks again for your interest in Metabarol. Have a great day!



Patrick Lawless PhD

President

Biological Prospects LLC


Office

449 Lewis Hargett Circle, Suite 190

Lexington, Kentucky 40503

(P) 866.721.1412

(F) 866.415.6808


Laboratory

University of Kentucky

ASTeCC Building

Room A346

145 Graham Avenue

Lexington, KY 40506-0286


Re: Aleve / Naproxen Sodium dosage

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

I think I may be not seeing the big picture so let me just ask.....are you giving Naproxen  Sodium on a daily basis or just in special circumstances....i.e. farrier?  Short term for flare ups?  


Thank you,

Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI  10/12




Re: Jasper's Lyme Results

corrine haffner
 

HI Nancy,OOPS sorry i missed spelled your name, i missed that typo before i hit send.


Re: Jasper's Lyme Results

corrine haffner
 

Hi Nacy

His teeth were done last fall,vet checked his teeth while she was here last night his teeth are good. I checked cube consistency there are some hard dark green shinny ones in the bag. I didn't notice them last night but it was late. I haven't been soaking them he seems to do fine most of the time,i scatter them on the ground and put some in his feed bucket. 

He thinks he's starving when i give more cubes at 11 pm so takes huge mouthfuls,two mouthfuls into to it last night and i knew he was in trouble. If i don't do the 11 pm feeding he goes 9 to 10 hours with nothing to eat,so he getting close to 30 lbs a day in cubes.

With no hay in diet i feel like i need to give more then 22 lbs of cubes,i know i run the risk of him getting to fat,i don't know what else to do other then feed 30 lbs a day.He hungry all the time...


Re: Metabarol for IR?

 

I don't know that it makes sense for me to ask more questions because yours are so specific. I received a response this morning the president of the company that I am taking the liberty of copying below. 


Re: Aleve / Naproxen Sodium dosage

Nancy C
 

I did some syringing in to get started, then threw mine in mashed ODTB Cubes and  TCLite, for my gelding with no teeth. 

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Please join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference, Georgetown TX, November 6-8, 2015
EARLY BIRD EXPIRES Wednesday!
NO Laminitis!



---In EquineCushings@..., <windybriars@...> wrote :


I grind the tablets.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

 



Re: Jasper's Lyme Results

Nancy C
 

Hi Corrine

Please look at the consistency of the cubes when you feed them. My gelding with no teeth successfully ate them  very loose - a mash really -  and by adding psyllium which makes them more slimey and easier to swallow.   It took getting used to.  With slow transition and patience i finally won out and he did great on them.

Also review his dental needs.  The above gelding needed the dentist every six months to keep what he had left as good as possible.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
FACT: The VA Polytechnic Pony Study is the only study to look at IR and laminitis under natural conditions. Learn more at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference in Georgetown, Texas, November 6-8.
Guest Speakers

 








---In EquineCushings@..., <sassafrass45@...> wrote :


ECIR Group Inc. 2015 NO Laminitis! Conf - 3 days for Early Bird

Nancy C
 

Discounted registration expires Wednesday, September 23rd.

When: November 6-8, 2015

Where: Georgetown, TX ~ Just outside Austin

When: November 6-8, 2015

Where: Georgetown, TX ~ Just outside Austin
Featured
Speakers : Eleanor M. Kellon, VMD
   
    Robert M. Bowker, VMD, PhD
   
    Kathleen Gustafson, PhD
  
    Philip J. Johnson, BVSc, MS, DACVIM, DECEIM, MRCVS
   
    Lavinia Fiscaletti, BA
   
    Daisy A. Bicking, DEP, APF, CFGP, CLS
   
    Benjamin R. Buchanan, DVM, DACVIM, DACVECC

NO Laminitis!

 

Tickets must be purchased in advance, prior to October 22nd.

There is much work to do and volunteers are dedicating many hours to getting ready. Registering in advance helps organizers plan the best possible event. Thank you to those of you who have stepped up!

The NO Laminitis! conference offers three days of information dedicated to the welfare of the PPID/IR equine and is approved for veterinary continuing education credits by AAVSB/RACE*, as well as by the the United States Dressage Federation for USDF University accreditation.

http://www.usdf.org/calendar/course.asp?CoursePass=102649

A veterinary student discount is also available.

Student Discount
Thank you to our Benefactors for their generous donations for this major 2015 ECIR Group Inc. fund raising event. Please tell these companies you appreciate their support the next time you talk with them or visit their web site, which you can access while visiting ecirhorse.org or nolaminitis.org.

Diamond Benefactors


California Trace


Forage Plus


Uckele Health and Nutrition


Platinum Benefactors
Auburn Labs

APF


Soft Ride Boots


Emerald Valley Natural Health


Beet-E-Bites


Hay Chix


EponaShoe



Gold Benefactors


Black Horse Consulting


Horse Tech


My Best Horse


Anderson Feed - Nuzu Feed


Omega Fields


Equicast


Ontario Dehy


Triple Crown


Eco Nets


Brazos Valley Equine Hospital




Looking forward to seeing you!


The 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference Committee



*This program was reviewed and approved by the AAVSB RACE program for 13 hours of continuing education in jurisdictions that recognize AAVSB RACE approval. Please contact the AAVSB RACE program if you have any comments/concerns regarding this program's validity or relevancy to the veterinary profession. Participants should be aware that some boards have limitations on the number of hours accepted in certain categories and/or restrictions on certain methods of delivery of continuing education. Contact Nancy Collins ecirgroup1@... for further information.




Re: Aleve / Naproxen Sodium dosage

Lorna Cane
 


I grind the tablets.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

 



Re: Jasper's Lyme Results

corrine haffner
 

Hi 

I called cornell and blood for lyme test was more then likely missed handled to get the results jasper had. I then called vet clinic and talked to them,and the blood samples were not taken care of in a timely fashion.

 So test results are worthless and vet will come back beginning of october to draw blood, for multiplex lyme test free of charge. Was able to talk to him directly he has his cell phone with and had service where he was.

And jasper choked again last night when i gave him extra cubes had stuff running out his nose coughing head stretched out and a panic look. Ended up have vet out a 1.30 am choke was clearing and jasper was becoming more agitated. Vet that came said 12 hours with no food of any kind,he doesn't seem to be hungry this morning any way.Took vet 45 minutes to get blockage passed with the tube.
Corrine & jasper
MN 4/2014


Re: Re Post Message196663: IR or PPID Symptoms?

Suzanne Mansolilli
 

Hi LJ, when I started Monty on Prascend last fall, my target dose was 2gm/day. I split the dose assuming it was better, mainly b/c he'd come off 'bute which was 2x/day and never even thought to ask the vet.  I think it was in one of your posts early last summer that you brought up the subject and through that I learned I'd been dosing wrong, so went to 2gm 1x/day.  

Although, in my recent searches through archives, I've learned that others give it more than once/day, some even 3x!  I also have to wonder if 2x/day didn't control Monty's seasonal rise last year better than same dose once/day this year, as he's teetering on the edge of full-blown laminitis.  Hope I can nip this in the bud by upping to 3gm.  I guess it's just the disease progressing.  At this rate, I'll be in the poor-house in a few years.

SuzanneM & Monty

Western Colorado — July 2014


-------------------
---In EquineCushings@..., <lj_friedman@...> wrote :

When ivread in this post I see that you were giving the pergolide two times a day. I thought I read from Dr. K that two times a day is never as good as one time a day. 


Re: Aleve / Naproxen Sodium dosage

Sharon Manning
 

Thanks I will sit down now and figure it out for my mare. How do you get the horse to take these? Can they be syringed? I tried one in a safe cookie but no go.
Sharon
E to
2005

Sent from my iPhone
Please forgive any errors


Reposting 196660 spring worming for Cushing/ir pony

sandie g-harries
 

196660Spring worming for Cushing/ir pony
sandiegharriesSep 17 7:27 AM
Hi.

My pony was recently diagnosed with above, therefore I need to review my wormers.

I've done some reading and I would like to know if I got it right.

As part of spring worming I want to target strongyles and tape worms. I used to use equest + but it has praziquantel and moxidectin :0(

Therefore, is it ok to do equimec (which has ivermectin), than 3 weeks later equimec + tape ( ivermectin and praziquantel), than after 3 weeks equimec again for small strongyles.

Yes or no?
Then, what do I rotate with? What do I do in autumn? I usually worm 2X / year and fec in between. If I need to worm more than that what is recommended to rotate with?

Sandie g harries
Victoria, Australia
Since June 2015


Re: Re Post Message196663: IR or PPID Symptoms?

lj friedman
 

When ivread in this post I see that you were giving the pergolide two times a day. I thought I read from Dr. K that two times a day is never as good as one time a day. So i am wondering why people give their meds two times a day when I'm thinking it should only be given one time a day? LJ Friedman San Diego


Re: Reposting(2nd try): ACTH Results Back

lj friedman
 

In reading this post, I was wondering if renal failure is associated with Cushing's or IR? LJ Friedman San Diego November 2014


Re: IR or PPID symptoms?

Suzanne Mansolilli
 

Thank you for your thoughts, Nancy. 

I just changed Monty's CH to .pdf format and uploaded it.  I'm not sure if what I did was right, please check it for me and let me know how to do it if it still doesn't open for you.

Thanks for clarifying that post of Dr Kellon's.  I totally missed the  reference to "non-pituitary cases".  Just paranoid of over-medicating if the sore feet is not PPID driven.  Is there a complete list of IR and PPID symptoms in the files?  I find partial lists of symptoms in various  posts and articles, but am still confused as to which symptoms go with which condition--hence my confusion on how to deal with his soreness.

 His feet are still warm with digital pulses -- not getting worse, but not better, either. Today I  soaked in ice water, then dried and put him in boots and pads.  He walks ok in the boots, but walks sort of stiff-legged and ouchy without them.  I had some bute on hand, so started it 2 days ago until I get Phyto Quench.  Is that the right course of action?  Is it OK for him to be on bute and still walk around in his paddock?  

I did trim him myself the day before I noticed heat,  Could taking his toes back too much have caused the heat and pulses?  I posted hoof photos to my folder and also wrote a post to Lavinia, (post 196671 on 9/18) with some questions concerning the trim. Hoping to hear back soon.

I'll be calling the vet in the morning to see if she can pull blood tomorrow, if not will ask her to raise to 3mg and test in 3 wks as suggested.

Thanks again,
--------------------

---In EquineCushings@..., <threecatfarm@...> wrote :

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/42876

There is absolutely no solid evidence at all to suggest that
pergolide is of use in treatment of insulin resistance related to
genetic predisposition, obesity, diet or any other nonpituitary cause.


Note the reference to" nonpituitary cause".






Re: Cushings & sedatives (dormasedan)

Lorna Cane
 

Here's the link:

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

 


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