Hi, Sue - thanks for the culture and sensitivity info.  Dr. Kellon's opinion is to repeat the regional limb perfusion; confer with your vet on the antibiotic.  My gut feeling is to go with baytril, especially for RLP (less systemic effect)  Did Princess get gentamicin last time?

I get the custom package of water soluble carbs and starch. It's $25.00.  That gives me the non-structured carb percentage.  It takes about a week to get the report back.  When it comes back you can verify the results by calling the lab tech, Chris.

Hi Barbara,

Know that Yahoo is not the most user-friendly (OK, it's miserably NOT user-friendly) since the Neo format was introduced so all of us need to just bite our collective lips, be patient and keep plugging away at it. It does become somewhat easier as you become more familiar with the ins and outs of navigating it.

Here is the link to your case history:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Barbara%20and%20Lily/

Really helps us to help you when you include it with all of your posts, esp if you have any questions.

The test was done using NIR protocols rather than wet chemistry, which means the results are an approximation of what is in the hay based on comparisons to similar types of hay. It is a less expensive method of testing that isn't the most reliable, esp for our IR/PPID compromised horses. The test only looked at some major minerals, no traces were done so you couldn't mineral balance from this test - would need to pull samples and send for complete testing in order to be able to mineral balance. Calcium is high. The results are listed based on dry matter content rather than AS Fed values so make the math a bit more challenging.

The sugar/starch number of 12.2% listed (ESC + Starch) would actually be somewhat lower than that as the hay contains 15% moisture but is still high for an IR/PPID mini. They incorrectly label this as NSC - NSC is WSC + Starch. As there is no value listed for WSC, there is no way to actually figure the NSC. Not a problem as we don't use that figure anyway.

Unless you are willing to soak, I'd be trying to find a hay with a lower ESC (ethanol soluble carbohydrates) + Starch number.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

Oh and I did read the file section on hay tests that talks about NIR vs Wet chem but I cannot tell that these two tests have a different way of testing all the components. Some are done the same way and maybe the important ones are?

Thanks Nancy, and thank you too Ferne, for your input.

I did see they had the treats tested, which is great, especially for this group.  :-) 

I guess we'll just have to give them a try!

Jessica & Mimi
NY June 2015
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Jessica%20and%20Mimi/
ECHistory8

 

  

Hi Jessica

My understanding is these have been tested on horses with PPID and /or IR.

Here is the link to the analysis

About Our Treats low sugar, low carbohydrate all natural horse treats

 

They test all their stuff at Equi-Analytical. Never say never but I will give these a try on my very IR gelding.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

FACT: With knowledge of the nutrient profile of the forage and the animal's weight and level of work, one can supplement only what is needed to target nutritional needs.

Hi Nancy C,

  If the hay analysis I loaded on my CH form over a week ago has be reviewed, I can't find it.
Is it in "Conversations?"  
  I have difficulty navigating this forum.
Barbara and Lily
Malvern, PA
March 2015

STANDING OVATION SALLY!!!!!!

I'm leaving your whole message intact on purpose.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Group Moderator 2003

Why do herbal remedies not control PPID? To learn more about the understanding, diagnosing and control of PPID and IR, nutrition, the foot, how it all comes together in the prevention of and rehab from laminitis, please join us at the 2015 NO Laminitis! Conference in Georgetown, Texas, November 6-8. 13 hours of continuing education credit


available.http://www.nolaminitis.org/index.php/program-schedule/guest-speakers

Hi, Sue - I do know that enrofloxacin (Baytril) can cause an insulin increase in rats, which means use with caution. On the other hand, if Baytril is the only thing that is going to work, then one has to weigh the risks and benefits.

Have you got a list of the bacteria and the antibiotics that work?

Need Dr. Kellon's input on this, too.

Glad I asked.  When I posted Jesse;s labs and my vets suggestion to start thyroid L, because of low thyroid,  Dr Kellon wrote that this is most likely eurothryoid sick syndrome and no need to use thyroid L.

Thanks so much for all the information and I will work on more photos!!

Thanks again,

Vicky Monen and Samson

Ga, Aug 2015

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Vicky%20and%20Samson/
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHoof/photos/albums/1698376942

 

So... before I order a batch, can I assume the ECIR group considers these treats safe for all Cushing's/IR horses?  (In small quantities, of course.) 

I'm concerned that there are ingredients like bits of carrots, when this group advocates zero carrots or apples for horses at very high risk of laminitis, as Mimi is at the moment. 

I sooo want these to be safe!

Jessica & Mimi
NY June 2015
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Jessica%20and%20Mimi/
ECHistory8

 

--

I wonder if the crumbles versions would help picky eaters eat their BP and custom minerals??  We're struggling with that now, big time!

Jessica & Mimi
NY June 2015
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Jessica%20and%20Mimi/
ECHistory8