Date   

Does Inky's blood work look good?

ksherbin@...
 

 

I don't know if this is permitted or not, but in case it is ....

 

My vet just emailed me the blood chemistry panel results from Cornell for Inky. She said they look great! I want to make sure that she isn't being sensitive enough to certain values that might affect a Cushings/IR horse more or differently. There were a couple of areas where I thought he might be on the high end or low end, and for a horse with his conditions that might mean we still had more work to do.

 

Inky has been very grouchy to the touch lately and his hair/skin very dry, so when the vet was out to check on his lameness I had her do the blood panel.

 

Do people here think the results look great? And I don't know whether to be happy about the glucose level going down: 

 

92,  the range being 71-113 mg/dL

 

In October 2015, the glucose was 103.  I'm sorry I didn't get the insulin tested too. But with just that value, does it look like we are making progress?

Karin & Inky

Forest, VA

IR/Cushing's

July 27, 2015

ECHistory8

 

 


Re: WAS: I don't know what else to do NOW: Soaking hay

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Nancy,

Bear with me as my brain is a tad scrambled following this hay soaking thread.  Are you saying that you do soak the hay for 12 hours and what you posted are the results of hay soaked for 12 hours?  So why the recommendation to soak in cold water for 1 hour or hot water for 30 minutes?   Going forward what is the hay soaking recommendation/s from the Board?

Thanks,

Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI  10/12




princess udate and new photos with ozone.

sue wolf <wolffarm4@...>
 

hello everyone,
this is a update on princess. I have been using the ozone on princess hoofs for some time. 2 weeks in IV and about 3 weeks soaking in a bag with ozone tube gassing it to kill and help healing.. I'm very very happy with the results. I would recommend it to anyone. the club hoof still has some oping in the front but it is not deep and is filling in from the inside out. you can't really see it from the photos. the bad hoof. well she has very little to no sole on that. the growth of the hoof wall is wonderful as you can see, compare it to her last photos. she has not had any abscess since the ozone. the infection is gone but we are having a hard time getting the connection on the bad hoof in the back were a abscess blew the heel apart. the diddgeal (sorry I know I spelled it wrong) cushion is dis connected.  the abscess went completely around the frog to the toe and in the heel bulb blew it all apart. we can tell by the track of were the abscess was.. if I would of knew about this ozone earlier I wouldn't of had this but cant go back in time..
that is the only problem we have now. everything is coming together but that. she is not on bute anymore. she standing better and is stepping normal but very slowly.  I'm waiting on daisy and Judith to get back to me about what I can do about the bad hoof heel. daisy does do the ozone iv on horses at her from. Judith's office does her farm.
princess is getting 1 hour ozone soak on each hoof daily and ozone IV daily. the iv daily just started this weekend.
will keep you updated.
sue & princess. oh 6/11


WAS: I don't know what else to do NOW: Soaking hay

Nancy C
 

Wanted to report my most recent experience with testing and feeding a year of soaked hay 2012-2013. 

This hay was grown under odd conditions for us.  Working with UNH, the fields had been fertilized in the fall (lime, potassium and phos) and after mud season (nitrogen) to soil specs. Dolomite lime to bring up Mag.  Can look up how much of what if anyone is interested.

Snow fall 2011-2012 was below normal. No rain for the month of April.  Heavy rains May and early June. As  result, all growth to first cut came in some 30 days.

Our normally low esc and starch hay came in at 9.2 esc and 0.1 starch. Started feeding it and then I got a clue and decided it really needed to be soaked - all winter long. 

I soaked this hay in a Cabela's 120 qt cooler on wheels.  Each feeding sat in cold water for the prior 12 hours. Was the only way I was going to be able to deal with doing this in the winter conditions we usually get: ice, snow, well-below zero temps with high winds contributing to even more fun.

Many of you know  the group recommends that for long term feeding  you should test the soaked hay and balance to those results. 

Pre and post results were interesting (to me anyway):

Esc went from 9.2 to 3.1.  As a side note, we use 30% as a number but that is really the average.  It can be much higher or lower depending on how much and temp water, length of time, etc.

Starch went from 0.1 to 1.2

Iron and manganese both went down. Fe 103 to 98.  Mn 54 to 29.  This could be sample differences, IMO.

The majors were significant: Ca went down .51 to .33.  Phos went down from .20 to .080.  Mag from .24 to .11. Potassium from 1.59 to 0.37.

I was surprised as most  experiences previously reported on the group and then supported in research  by Longland, showed it was Potassium that was the affected, ie water-soluble, major.

In talking over with Dr Kellon and others, we posited  that the minerals in the first batch may have still been on the hay, rather than in it, due to lack of adequate rain. 

Your mileage may vary....

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ECIR Group Inc.

 







Re: I don't know what else to do

Nancy C
 

Hi Coral

Want to support Sally's comments. I looked over your CH.  Would love clarity on which hay you are feeding and what the ESC and Starch is.  As stated by others, you cannot soak out starch.  You stated that as of July you were on  fully balanced tested hay, less than 10% starch.

I haven't followed Po on ECHoof lately but recall the summer discussions about tightening the trim.  This can take time as you know.

When I first started on this journey, a "founder specialist" pulled shoes and trimmed Beau after  rotation in January 2003 or so. This was back in the day when you were supposed to keep them on Bute and in the stall for months on end.  I shudder to remember just how long we did this.  Just from shoe removal and that trim, Beau was bucking in place in the stall from the relief.  Should he have been?  Probably not. He certainly was not cured of the rotation.

When I subsequently started working with Dr Bowker on the trim and foot rehab, we made sure there was no running around.  None. He was outside but in an area where he could not get a full head of steam.  His rotation compared to some we see was not extreme. We had a tight trim, but a capsule with good connection was not grown out yet, and he could easily have hurt himself.  Do you need that level of caution?  Maybe not, but I have learned in subsequent years that they can easily overdo before they are ready and set themselves back, especially if the trim is not well balanced. 

It appears you were seeing "rotation" based on hoof capsule angles in November. This rotation could build up to the soreness you saw in December. His running around after the chiro appt on feet not yet tightly in the capsule could contribute. These guys need tight trims and good growth to become stable and to get over being sore. They can be set back easily by any combination of a diet that is not tight, seasonal rise or other Dx issues, poor hoof form, and movement beyond what they are ready for.

Probably not what you want to hear. I know. It's hard work.  Hang in there and above all give Po a hug.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ECIR Group Inc.

 




---In EquineCushings@..., <barehoof@...> wrote :



He went through 3 complete hoof growth cycles before his feet returned to normal and I needed to shoe him for 9 months




Re: I don't know what else to do

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Cass,

Could you please tell us by % of the sugar (ESC) that was reduced in the hay using your thorough soaking process as you describe in your post?  Was it 30% as posted here by other Members using the recommended soaking times or was it lower with your method?   Since you are using hot water I assume when you say you do a second soak you mean a soak in hot water for the remaining 15 minutes, is that correct?

"Such thorough soaking removes more than sugar: it also removes phosphorus."

Thank you,

Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI  10/12







Re: I don't know what else to do

 

Long (and short) soaking won't remove starch. In my several hay tests of soaked hay, starch wasn't affected at all. 

IME, two bad result of long-term soaking are significantly increased iron and decreased phosphorus. I cannot be sure if that varies regionally (based on different soils, different iron compounds, different grasses), but here, soaking makes balancing more difficult because large quantities of phosphorus must be added to the diet while iron ppm increases substantially.

I learned that the only way to keep iron levels near those of dry hay is to quickly but thoroughly rinse in cold water, then soak the rinsed hay  the shortest time possible with the hottest water available, say 15 minutes,  completely drain away that water and then to do a second soak for the balance of the time. Finally, a thorough, lengthy rinse was done.  That's a lot of water in a drought.

Such thorough soaking removes more than sugar: it also removes phosphorus. I had hays that, as a practical matter, couldn't be sufficiently supplemented with phosphorus because the amounts were so high that the supplements were not palatable.

Cass for Satra and Cayuse
Sonoma County, Calif Oct. '12
---In EquineCushings@..., <kathbrink@...> wrote :

"I have no idea why. His diet is balanced, his hay is being soaked for 12 hours, and he's on PQ"


The recommendation is to soak the hay for 1 hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water.  




Re: Need some help with my mare

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

SAA can't distinguish between infection and inflammation (or trauma, or malignancy).

http://www.cpl.med.miami.edu/acute-phase-protein/equine-serum-amyloid-a-testing

http://dx.doi.org/10.4236/ojvm.2013.31010

While there are very clear indicators of improvement here, she basically is not yet out of the woods. You should never ignore SAA. SAA above 20 (10 in some labs) always indicates a problem of some sort. When healing is complete, SAA will return to normal.

The Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction aka "Herx" is primarily limited to infections with spirocetes like Lyme or syphilis, is worse with chronic infections and has a sudden and usually dramatic onset within 1 to 2 hours of giving the antibiotics.  Otherwise, expected response to antibiotics is a clear reduction of fever and symptoms. Complete resolution of SAA may take up to 12 days with no complications.  Some authors have observed a second, short-lived peak during recovery but the overall trend should be downward.

The leg swelling could be related to the low albumin, viral vasculitis or antigen-antibody depostion vasculitis - even malignancy

Hematopoietic Neoplasias in Horses: Myeloproliferative and Lymphoproliferative Disorders

 

As for diet, you should make sure she is getting all nutrients she needs for a balanced immune response and antioxidant defenses including E, Se and other trace minerals especially zinc and copper with very tight Fe:Cu:Zn ratio.  If she is not eating enough to meet her daily protein needs (for her ideal weight, not current weight) supplement with whey protein isolate. I would increase L-glutamine to 30 g/day.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com    2 for 1

EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


 




-


Re: Polycystic Ovary Syndrome and Laminitis

Maggie
 

Hi Julia,

Welcome to the group!  You can never provide us with too much info, and you provided a nice summary of your mare's issues.  But in order to get the best help we ask that everyone fill out a case history on their horse.  To do that, you'll need to join one of our sister groups called ECHistory8.  It's a filing cabinet for storing case histories, and keeps all the CH's in one easily accessible place.  Here's a link to that group:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/info  It won't take long to get approved and then just follow the instructions for filling out a CH.  You can copy and paste a lot of the info that you have already provided in the free form "time line" section at the end of the CH form.

Meanwhile, I will explain our philosophy called DDT/E, which stands for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise, and point you in the right direction for some more reading.

Diagnosis:  Forgive me if I missed it, but I am not seeing any mention of lab work.  Is that right?  The first step in getting a good treatment plan underway is a good diagnosis.  To get that, we recommend these 4 tests:  ACTH, insulin, glucose, and leptin on a NON-fasting horse.  At the age of 10, Jazz is just at the cusp of the age that we recommend you do the ACTH to rule out (or in) PPID (Cushing's disease).  PPID is an enlargement or benign tumor in a part of the pituitary gland called the pars intermedia, not usually seen (though not unheard of) in horses under the age of 10.  It's treated with a medicine called pergolide.  IR is not a "disease", but a "metabolic type" of horse, normally, but not always, described as easy keepers with abnormal fat pads such as cresty necks, puffiness in the hollows of the eyes, excessive drinking and urinating, etc.  IR is treated with a low carb, low fat, mineral balanced diet.  A horse that has both PPID and IR would need both pergolide and a carefully managed diet for the rest of it's life.  Any horse can have just IR, just PPID, or both (or neither).  With regard to the labwork, the ACTH is to diagnose the PPID and the insulin and glucose for diagnosing IR.  The leptin helps to differentiate if the horse is IR at baseline or if an elevated insulin is being driven by a high ACTH.  Leptin is the hormone that says "stop eating", and insulin resistance and leptin resistance go hand in hand.  More information about leptin resistance can be found in the first file in this folder:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/Insulin%20Resistance/  The labwork does require special handling so please read more about that on our website here:  http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-diagnosis 

Additionally, you are going to want to read Dr. Kellon's  ECIR 2013 Proceedings on Reproductive Abnormalities in Mares with Diet Resistant Insulin Resistance.  Look here:  http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/conference-proceedings-recordings/2013-proceedings-recordings-table-of-contents  Scroll down to the free PDF's and it's the 4th one up from the bottom of the page.  This will give you another diagnostic tool to consider.

Diet:   To provide a low carb, (less than 10% sugar+starch) low fat (4% or less), mineral balanced diet, we use grass hay, tested to be under 10% sugar + starch, with minerals added to balance the excesses and deficiencies in the hay, plus salt, and to replace the fragile ingredients that are lost when grass is cured into hay, we add ground flax seed and Vitamin E.  This diet is crucial for an IR horse, but also supports the delicate immune system of a PPID horse.  Until you can get your hay tested and balanced, we recommend that you use the Emergency Diet.    It does involve soaking your hay for an hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water to remove ~30 of the sugar content.  Make sure you dump the soaking water where the horse(s) can't get to it.  Though not intended for long term use, the emergency diet addresses some of the most common deficiencies.  More details about the emergency diet can be found on our website here:  http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-diet  Once you get your hay tested you can look in this file for a list of people who can help you with mineral balancing (first file in this folder):  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/7%20Help%20with%20Mineral%20Balancing/  Or since you are in the UK, you will probably want to continue to work with Sarah at Forageplus.

A very important part of the IR diet is what you DON'T feed. No pasture, no grain, no molasses containing products, no sugary treats including apples and carrots, no unsoaked hay with an either an unknown ESC+starch content or ESC+starch that is above 10%.  Plain white salt blocks only--the brown/red ones contain iron (and sometimes molasses) and unknown mineral amounts which interfere with mineral balancing.  As I read your note, I was really struck with the need to keep Jazz completely off the grass.  Many people struggle with this concept, but the fact is, many IR horse just cannot tolerate any grass at all.  

Trim:  A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot.  Though important for all horses, it's essential for an IR and/or PPID horse to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis.  Here are the links to our website on a proper trim.  Here:  http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/ddt-overview/ddt-trim   and here: http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/laminitis/realigning-trim  You are welcome to post pictures of your mare's feet so our hoof guru can help you to determine if you have an optimal trim in place.  Here's a site that explains how to take good hoof photos:  http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html   Please put any photos and/or xrays in the PHOTOS section of ECH8.  That's the group you join to fill out your CH.  The CH's are in the "files" section, pictures in the "photos" section.  

Exercise: This is the best IR buster there is, but only if the horse is comfortable and non-laminitic.  Once she is able to tolerate increased movement, we recommend hand walking in long straight lines with no tight turns, which puts increased stress on the new laminae as they grow in.  Boots and pads may be in order for comfort during the rehab period.

I hope you find some information in this that helps you, Julia.  There is TONS of great information on our website, in our files and also in the archived messages.  You can search for anything using the "search converstions" and "search files" boxes.  But don't hesitate to ask any further questions that you have!  Let us know when you have your case history done!  We ask all members to please sign each time you post with your name (first is fine), date of joining, and general location (which helps us to source products for you).  When you get your CH done, you will want to add a link to it in your signature as well so that we can find it faster and answer your questions faster!  See my signature below as an example.

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA



Re: Regional Members Database

ferne fedeli
 

Which link did you get an error on?  I just clicked on both the Click Here to Find Local Members and the Click Here to Add Yourself to the Listing and they worked just fine.  Try it again.  Perhaps you just happened to click on the link exactly when someone else did.  That sometimes causes the second one to be rejected temporarily...

Let me know what happens.
Ferne Fedeli​

On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 1:28 PM, Rachel r_sings@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:
 

I get an error message when I try to access this?

Rachel 
2014

Sent from my iPhone

On 8 Jan 2016, at 12:54 PM, Ferne Fedeli fedelif@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

 

THE REGIONAL MEMBERS DATABASE  

 

Find ECIR Members near you!  

 

The NEW Regional Members Database is a world-wide listing of members by location.  

 

Click here to Find Local Members offering PPID and IR-related equipment loans, resource leads, advice, shoulders to cry on and much more. 

 

 

Click here to add yourself to the listing NOTE:  This is a NEW database.  *If you entered your contact information before Oct 5, 2015, you need to re-enter your information.  

 

 

If you have any questions or need to change/edit previously entered information please email Ferne at  fedelif gmail com.   

​​

Please help fight PPID and IR by taking the time to contribute/update your information in the polls, databases and case histories.   What you share today will help tomorrow.   

 


- Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Team of the Equine Cushings List

 



--
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
Regional Members Database Coordinator
Add your contact information if you want to help out/meet ECIR members in your area.




--
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
Regional Members Database Coordinator
Add your contact information if you want to help out/meet ECIR members in your area.


Re: I don't know what else to do

sue wolf <wolffarm4@...>
 

Hello,
you live in tx? correct. maybe I can help you find someone that does the ozone on your horse it takes out the  inflammation in his hooves and in the rest of the body.. I don't think that anyone in the group knows much about it.  but I have studied it and have talked to vets that do it and has seen the results first hand. amazing.. its what you can call new cutting edge. look up princess file. I will be posting new photos this week end on her hoofs I have been giving it to her steady for 2 weeks every other day and starting this weekend she will get it everyday.. it stops abscess from forming and helps heal at rate its hard to explain.. example. princess had a sore that she had for months and months and I could not get it to heal it was from her laying down. now in 2 weeks its healed. not just scabbed over its healed with her skin. the hair has not grown back but you can see its starting. I know a person that does the ozone in tx he should be able to help.. you can call me if you want to if you have any questions.. it does really work.. the vet that does do this said it will help her get her ir in check better and make her body work like it should but I would have to still watch her diet and treat her as a ir horse but she should not be so sensitive to sugar like she is now.. 
time will tell.. read up on it. Judith shoemaker with always helpful veterinary.. she only touches on isome of the subjects..
sincerely,
Sue & princess
oh 6/11
number 440-422-3402


On Friday, January 8, 2016 6:08 PM, "windybriars@... [EquineCushings]" wrote:


 



>>The recommendation is to soak the hay for 1 hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water.  I wonder if the hay may be reabsorbing sugar from its "bath" water.


>>I ask other Members to weigh in on the hay soaking time recommendations.

I thought that the soaking time needed to be reduced,too,Kathy.





Re: Need some help with my mare

tara sullivan
 

Hi Dr. Kellon.  I have not administered any NSAID since 4am on 1/6.  She has been on Oxytet for 4 days.  Her temp was well controlled yesterday-never above 101.6 and falling to 99.9 in the middle of the day.  Her appetite is getting stronger and I am definitely in the presence of horse that feels better.  Her legs stock up over night but drain nicely after turnout-not completely tight.  But her SAA is stagnant at 762...this actually is 140 point increase from the last one taken 1/4 when she was on Baytril.  And her temp this am 102.3.
cbc/chem is not in yet.  And her HR has dropped a little to 44-46 bpm.
So....I now have a body that is clearly feeling better and one lab that suggests otherwise?  Dr. G is not bothered by the SAA.  She has tested many horses with numbers that high who were absolutely fine....again so are we testing infection or inflammation?

Also interesting was the how the blood acted in the tube-this draw it seemed completely normal.  With the last draw we could clearly see the clumping in the tube....we were tipping it up and down and watching how little clumps remained on the side of the tube as it ran back down.

We wondered that if the horse is reacting to organism die off and is clearly dealing with inflammation (stocking up)-is that represented in the test??  Waiting for cbc/chem-so curious.

But today-I have a horse that feels better!  I no longer have to syringe her supplements...thanks to TC30 and Senior.  And she is also eating more hay.  Trying not to go overboard  with the concentrates.  2 base meals of .5lb TC30 + .5lb senior  + 1lb soaked bp + 6oz soaked flax and topped with all her "stuff" -2x/day she gets 5000 iu vit.e in 2oz CS oil, 1 Tbs salt, 1 tsp. jherb, 1tsp moveease.  1x/day-1 Tsp. glutamine, 1Tsp A-carnatine, 1Tsp. equine generator.  half ration of AZ complete.

Do you have recommendations on Divina's diet at this point?? 

Also waiting for visit from Internist.
Thanks for all of your help.

Tara and Divina

NY 2015

ECHistory8

 




-


Re: How to find things in the ECIR Group. Save this post.

Colleen Heard
 

Hi LeeAnne,

Thank you, will give it another go.

Colleen, Brandy and Benny NSW Australia

On Wednesday, January 6, 2016, 9:34 AM, LeeAnne Bloye ThePitchforkPrincess@... [EquineCushings] wrote:

 

Hi Colleen,
I have an iPad now (Christmas present) but I used the word version of the case history form and OpenOffice to test the form on the iPad. It works great. 
If you need any help with either pc or iPad just email me at ECIR.Archives(at)gmail(dot)com
:-)

- ​LeeAnne, Newmarket, Ontario

ECIR Archivist 03/2004

 

Are you in the Pergolide Dosage Database?

​​
   
View the Database Stats 
      
ECIR Files 
​​
Table of Contents   
​        
Dawn's 10 Year Case History

Taken For Granite Art - Lightweight Cement Sculpture and Memorials​​


Sent from my iPad


Polycystic Ovary Syndrome and Laminitis

Julia Cunniffe
 

Hello Everyone,


I have just joined the group and not yet had chance to read thru the previous conversations, so I apologise if this information is already here.


I have a miniature Shetland with EMS who I have been managing for several years, and on the whole is well and happy. I hope to find more information on improving his management when i read thru the information on this group.


My current concern tho is my 10 year old Selle Francais Mare, Jazz, who I have recently been told has Laminitis. I am still not totally convinced by the diagnosis, and I'm afraid I don't have a lot of faith in my vets, who have little interest in metabolic issues. 


Jazz has had intermittent lameness for over a month now. It has varied from looking footy, to shouldery, but has consistently been the right fore. She is rather a challenging character, having been an orphan, and lives out on a track, with a 4 year old gelding, around the track of my 2 mini's. Atm the track is deep in mud, wet and slippery, but since the Laminitis diagnosis I have not felt able to allow them on the grass of the other field, which is how I would normally manage them at this time of year.


During the summer months Jazz has bulges over her eyes and swelling between her jaw. She had a very muscular crest this year having been doing a lot of Straightness Training, and on the whole looked quite large, not helped by her low slung belly, but does not generally have other fat pads. I have erred towards assuming she is likely to be predisposed to Metabolic problems and managed her on a low sugar diet, lots of hay, minimal grass when sugars likely to be high, low sugar feeds, and on the track. She has never had any episodes of laminitis previously, has had event-lines on her hooves corresponding to those of my previous gelding who also did not experience laminitis, and has always been barefoot.


Her lameness started towards the end of November. mainly in trot and most obvious on the hard, wet sand surface of the round pen or the road. I had always struggled to feel pulses, so do not know her 'normal' pulse, but am getting good at finding them now. The vet looked for signs of an abscess,but Jazz was very reactive to hoof-testers on both front feet, inconsistently according to the vet, although to me she appeared to react to everything...she is very sensitive to touch generally, doesn't like it, and can be very uncooperative. In the light of palpable pulses both fronts, and looking slightly sensitive on a tight circle on the road on both fronts (surface of gravel on tarmac ad horses have been on soft wet surface of field now some many weeks...so again I'm not altogether convinced) and being unable to spot anything else, they diagnosed Laminitis. At her most sore she has stood with her right sore out in front of her, but only on one day, has not been lying down excessively. I kept her in stable with tiny yard area for 48 hours but she then began rearing so i let her back out on the track which is very soft atm.


The track has almost negligible grass on it, yet her pulses remain variable from unpalpable, to strong, sometimes on all 4 feet(never strong behind but sometimes easy to feel). The only day I allowed them access to the old grass of the back field, on a low Laminitis risk day, she later had stronger pulses and looked a little more footy again, so I have kept them off it since. 


She is unrugged, and not carrying any excess weight, looks very slim for her. We have not been having much sunshine, or much frost. What grass we have has continued to grow due to unseasonably warm weather. My vets tell me they are not getting lots of new cases of Laminitis at the moment.


While talking to Sarah Braithwaite at Forageplus earlier this week, about getting some Hay, Grass and Soil Analysis done she mentioned the possibility of PCOS. I had wondered whether hormones may have been playing a part in her symptoms, as she appears to have been in season much more visibly this year, and much more frequently. She was previously in with a older gelding, but after losing him has been with a vibrant 4 year old since May. She has always been a very dramatic, sensitive moody horse. During riding she often, ever since backing bites at my right leg where it rests against her side, and has had on ongoing back issue(tender lower back and wasting around trapezious) for a few years which has almost, but not absolutely resolved with Straightness Training which has created a lot more muscle and better carriage. We have more recently begun working on calmness,  and releasing muscle tensions and doing more ground work with softness again with less riding, and it is since beginning this that the lameness has come to the fore.


I apologise if i have included too much information here, but tbh I am baffled by Jazzes condition atm. Part of me is thinking that she is releasing old tensions and pains from previous injury's(she had a right shoulder/neck injury in France before travelling to England age 4, and also had a fall and got stuck under the trailer partition, later presenting as if she had a right brachial plexus lesion a few years ago, but this resolved quickly and apparently fully with rest and bodywork). However,  if she does have Laminitis, obviously i need to try and find the root cause asap. I can't believe it can be purely sugar related in view of her lifestyle, and a hormonal link would make sense in view of other characteristics...so any advice on how to proceed from here would be enormously appreciated. 




Re: Jennifer and Darcy, back again

bectonliterary
 

Thank you, Nancy for pointing out those files. Darcy has been off the bute since Wednesday, and the vet is scheduled to do the blood draws on Tuesday.

Of course, the vet is still a work in progress. I am having trouble convincing him that Darcy does not need to fast before the glucose test. Even though I sent the DDT Diagnosis PDF and explained exactly what I wanted--blood drawn and sent to Cornell for the named tests--he still wants her to fast.

I repeated what I wanted, explained that I understood it's not his normal protocol, and took responsibility if I "waste money." It's so hard to walk the line between respecting their professional opinions but asking them to go against their protocols.

On the positive side, Darcy is doing much better. She is moving better, is less stiff, and even offered to canter.

Jennifer and Darcy in SC
2011


Re: I don't know what else to do

Lorna Cane
 




>>The recommendation is to soak the hay for 1 hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water.  I wonder if the hay may be reabsorbing sugar from its "bath" water.


<snip>


>>I ask other Members to weigh in on the hay soaking time recommendations.


I thought that the soaking time needed to be reduced,too,Kathy.




Re: I don't know what else to do

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Coral,

Are you currently feeding Henry's First Cut hay?  If so, the ESC is 5.9% and the Starch is 2.9%.  I know how difficult it was for you to source hay and when we reviewed this hay analysis we discussed  that if Po showed signs of being foot sore that you would try soaking this hay and this is what you currently doing. 

 This is from your post #198473

"I have no idea why. His diet is balanced, his hay is being soaked for 12 hours, and he's on PQ"


The recommendation is to soak the hay for 1 hour in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water.  I wonder if the hay may be reabsorbing sugar from its "bath" water.


Here is a link to a file on hay soaking and if you search the archives you will find numerous posts on the topic.


I ask other Members to weigh in on the hay soaking time recommendations.


Kathy Brinkerhoff


SE/WI  10/12

 

Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

 








Re: Regional Members Database

Rachel Chrismas
 

I get an error message when I try to access this?

Rachel 
2014

Sent from my iPhone

On 8 Jan 2016, at 12:54 PM, Ferne Fedeli fedelif@... [EquineCushings] <EquineCushings@...> wrote:

 

THE REGIONAL MEMBERS DATABASE  

 

Find ECIR Members near you!  

 

The NEW Regional Members Database is a world-wide listing of members by location.  

 

Click here to Find Local Members offering PPID and IR-related equipment loans, resource leads, advice, shoulders to cry on and much more. 

 

 

Click here to add yourself to the listing NOTE:  This is a NEW database.  *If you entered your contact information before Oct 5, 2015, you need to re-enter your information.  

 

 

If you have any questions or need to change/edit previously entered information please email Ferne at  fedelif gmail com.   

​​

Please help fight PPID and IR by taking the time to contribute/update your information in the polls, databases and case histories.   What you share today will help tomorrow.   

 


- Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Team of the Equine Cushings List

 



--
Ferne Fedeli
No. California
Regional Members Database Coordinator
Add your contact information if you want to help out/meet ECIR members in your area.


Re: Pergolide mesalate

Lorna Cane
 


Hi Jeannean,

Can you post his blood work in his case history form, in appropriate columns ?

Good news about the pergolide.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada

ECIR Moderator 2002

 

http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

 

 

 






 






Re: Pergolide mesalate

Lorna Cane
 


Hi Jeannean,

Can you post his blood work in his case history form, in appropriate columns ?

Good news about the pergolide.


Lorna in Ontario,Canada

ECIR Moderator 2002

 

http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

 

 

 






 





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