Date   

update on princess sue

sue wolf <wolffarm4@...>
 

Hello everyone,
I had a new vet out to take a fresh look at princess. he also took new x-rays. I should have them today and will post as soon as I can. these are around 2 week after her trim.. he was very happy to see she was doing so good. he seen photos in oct before the good trim and after..  he was expecting to see a gooey. infected abscess hoofs. that is not the case, no infection or abscessing. you can see were there was one at one time/ abscess track. but no infections.. I credit it to the ozone I'm doing. he has another horse that is bad like princess and wants them to do the ozone on it. I would have to do it since he does not have a machine..
 sincerely,
Sue & princess
oh 6/11


Re: question on phyto quench and preicox

Nancy C
 

Hi Lj

Can you please refine your question? IME NSAIDs are sometimes needed because the issue has progressed too far. That was true of my very arthritic PPID Morgan who could not longer get up with out them.  IMO, NSAIDS and Previcox in particular is prescribed to early, too often and with the wrong dose, often ignoring how the correct trim and body work could also contribute to an alternative approach.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Group Mod


---In EquineCushings@..., <lj_friedman@...> wrote :

Dr. Kellon wrote this yesterday:

Phyto-Quench functions as an alternative to this class of drugs and should not be used at the same time.

My question is if Phyto quench is as good a substitute as previcox? Lj Friedman san diego


Re: serious weight loss

Maggie
 

Hi, is it Mary?

Do you have a case history on your Dutch warmblood?  How was he diagnosed as IR?  At the age of 16, he could also have PPID.  Recommend you do ACTH, insulin, glucose and leptin on him.  Should be drawn on a NON-fasting horse and sent to Cornell if you are in the USA.  More information on our website:  http://ecirhorse.org/ 

Sorry, but without more information, we have more questions than answers.  Go here and join ECHistory8 to fill out a case history on your boy:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/info  You need to join, but it shouldn't take long to get approved.  The instructions for filling out a CH are on the main page, and also in the files on the main ECIR group here:  https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/9%20Case%20Histories/ 


Let us know when you have your CH done!  Please sign your name, date of joining, and general location each time you post.  Thanks!

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response
ECHistory4

 


serious weight loss

Maryse S
 

My Dutch warmblood IR horse has been with me and healthy since he was 3.  I've been able to manage his diet and he's never had a problem.  He is now 16 and for the past year it's been impossible to keep weight on him.  He is ribby and I'm at a loss on how to deal with it.  He's been wormed, CBC normal, gets bermuda, some alfalfa, beet pulp, small rice bran.  All his normal foods and he's not being worked much and I can't seem to get any weight on him.  Any thoughts or test I should do would be greatly appreciated. 


Re: Need some help with my mare

tara sullivan
 

Thank you Dr. Kellon for the link on cold agglutinin disease.  Something interesting happened today...I don't know if it has anything to do with anything....yet!

Divina started out this morning with a temp of 101.  One thing I have noticed is that most of the time her temp will drop throughout the day and then creep back up in the afternoon and sometimes go up a degree plus by the time I night check at 9pm.  Today started out well because she was only at 101, eating well and bright.  By noontime her temp was just under 100...while she had her alfalfa lunch.  At 2:30pm it was up to 102 (we had a cold, low 20's, sunny but blustery day).  I decided to put on her fleece shipping boots (I have been blanketing her as needed).  At 4:30 her temp was down to 101 and at 8:30pm it was 100.6.  She will spending the night them!  (I have this great idea for equine feet pajamas!)

Her appetite was really strong today...and when I went out to the barn she was hanging her head out into the aisle....I can't remember the last time i saw her do that.

I will let you know what happens tomorrow.  Dr. G should be out to do the cold agglutinins test.

Tara and Divna
NY 2015


Re: Do these values indicate liver/kidney/infection issues?

ksherbin@...
 


Ah, thank you for the reassurance Dr. K! Will rest easier now.

 

 

Karin & Inky

Forest, VA

IR/Cushing's

July 27, 2015

ECHistory8

 

 


Re: question on phyto quench and preicox

lj friedman
 

Dr. Kellon wrote this yesterday:

Phyto-Quench functions as an alternative to this class of drugs and should not be used at the same time.

My question is if Phyto quench is as good a substitute as previcox? Lj Friedman san diego


Re: Update on Granite

 

Oh thank you so much, Lavinia!  I am really looking forward to making more strides on both of their improvements! 

Saphira's films are all of fronts only.

Granite's were of both rears, then the film that the vet did not split was of his right front. 

Would it have been helpful if I had cropped the xrays to isolate each hoof and label each separately?

Dee, Granite and Saphira
Aroostook County, ME - 9/06
Case History: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Dee%20in%20ME%20and%20Granite/
Photos:
Granite
Saphira

 





Re: New to this and need some help

Nancy C
 

Thanks for this clarification on the U-Balance, Dr Kellon.  Had seen the rec to another member for half serving so appreciate your post. Wondered about the B-Vits at half levels as well.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ECIR Group Inc.

 







---In EquineCushings@..., <drkellon@...> wrote :

The U Balance Foundation is designed for the common high iron and/or manganese hays, which is usually the case in ME.  It is very concentrated and often a good fit at half the usual dose. Chromium isn't on the guaranteed analysis but is in the ingredients list.

As for the three B vitamins Nanc mentioned, the research was actually in athletes and those three can push the muscle cell to depend heavily on glucose. Since IR horses may have low levels of glycogen (stored glucose), this isn't a good idea, especially with exercise, but I have used this particular supplement in IR horses with no obvious problems. It's always best to go from your own hay analysis when supplementing but in the meantime you could use this.


Re: New to this and need some help

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The U Balance Foundation is designed for the common high iron and/or manganese hays, which is usually the case in ME.  It is very concentrated and often a good fit at half the usual dose. Chromium isn't on the guaranteed analysis but is in the ingredients list.

As for the three B vitamins Nanc mentioned, the research was actually in athletes and those three can push the muscle cell to depend heavily on glucose. Since IR horses may have low levels of glycogen (stored glucose), this isn't a good idea, especially with exercise, but I have used this particular supplement in IR horses with no obvious problems. It's always best to go from your own hay analysis when supplementing but in the meantime you could use this.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com   2 for 1 continued until January 31

  EC Co-owner

Feb 2001

 


--


Re: Update on Granite

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Dee,

Are the xrays in Granite's album fronts or rears? Are the composite ones a left and right or ?

Same questions for Saphira's.

Sorry, the vet didn't label them so i want to be sure before commenting.

Thanks for the clarification.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support team

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Case History: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Dee%20in%20ME%20and%20Granite/
Photos:
Granite
Saphira




Re: Need some help with my mare

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

---In EquineCushings@..., <candace.costis@...> wrote :

I'll just throw in my two cents. My Airedale had FUO - fever of unknown origin. Apparently it is common. Instead of throwing money at a bunch of tests and losing the dog anyway, I kept him home and used homeopathics to keep him alive. You might search around and see if you can find some knowledgeable people in alternative medicine. They approach things differently and have excellent results in some areas where conventional medicine does not
=====================

This is an inappropriate post for this group. We are here specifically for issues pertaining to IR and PPID horses. Period. Tara's reply to you was right on the mark. What she is going through is anything but common. To suggest she should forget about trying to find the cause and could keep her mare alive using homeopathics is at the very least uninformed. Fortunately for Divina, Tara has obviously gone to great lengths to understand what may be going on with her mare and what the treatment options may be.

The 'us' vs 'them' or 'conventional' vs 'alternative' dynamic is not welcome here. It is divisive and counterproductive. Our approach is integrative. We don't automatically accept or reject something because of some arbitrary label that's hung on it. However, the same standards apply across the board. Any suggested therapy must be scientifically sound and proven to work or have a sound rationale behind why it could be beneficial. For unproven approaches, the owner should commit to careful and objective (e.g. lab results, radiographs, etc) monitoring to see if it actually does have a beneficial effect. Belief systems have no place - only facts.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com  2 for 1 continued until January 31
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: Update on Granite

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Dee,

Excellent news! After the fright to you wore off the episode was probably a bit humorous. Agree that traction is more important than tenderness in this instance.

I'm working on Granite and Saphira's mark-up's now so hope to have everything posted by days end (Yahoo willing and the creek don't rise).

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Case History: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Dee%20in%20ME%20and%20Granite/
Photos:
Granite
Saphira




Re: Need some help with my mare

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

There is a good detailed rundown of cold agglutinins here:

Cold Agglutinin Disease: Background, Pathophysiology, Etiology

 

That's human but the process also applies to dogs and horses. I've had two cases,one a horse with lymphoma and the other what used to be called "Colitis X" - probably a Clostridial colitis.  The lymphoma horse had a positive Coombs.  In both cases there was visible agglutination in the blood collection tubes that disappeared when they were put in a warming bath.  There were no outwardly visible signs and usually aren't. There is a syndrome in people with severe cold agglutinin disease where they can develop what looks like gangrene of their toes, fingers or ears.  The colitis horse did have laminitis but that's to be expected anyway with severe GI problems.

Obviously getting adequate calories into her is a primary concern right now so yes, give her alfalfa. You can also try brewing some alfalfa in boiling water to make alfalfa tea that can be poured on other things to hopefully make them tempting.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com   2 for 1 extended until January 31
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Divina/




---


Re: New to this and need some help

Nancy C
 

Hi Carolyn

Many members have used the emergency diet to start.  Some went on to add California Trace to give them Copper and Zinc until they can have their hay tested.

California Trace - Nutritional Support for Horses

 

It contains Selenium so I'd double check the selenium maps to make sure you are in a deficient area. Your University Cooperative Extension would likey have more info.


You may have done this but your source for hay may have tests already done. Some members have been able to work with their sellers or growers to hold hay side for them. Some times there has been an extra cost, sometimes not. it might be worth asking around if you have not done so. You may find the doc Hay- Finding and Storing, to be helpful.

Equine Cushings and Insulin Resistance

 


Go to the above folder and scroll down. This is a compilation of member reports on getting this bump in the road smoothed out. 

Hang in there.  It takes a bit of time but does get easier.  I promise.  The results are worth it.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ECIR Group Inc.

 





---In EquineCushings@..., <angels0115@...> wrote :

 does anyone have a balanced nutrient source that would work for now. Until I can find a consistent source of tested hay (none in my area), I am forced to buy grass hay at the sale barn. I am trying to find a local farmer to work with for the future.


Carolyn Guttenfelder, 2016 Iowa

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Carolyn%20and%20Scout/ 


 

 


Re: Do these values indicate liver/kidney/infection issues?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

You can relax. Your blood work is all fine.  Anion gap is not reliable unless blood is immediately processed and tested.  Bicarb on a serum sample is not really bicarb, it's dissolved CO2.  Many things can change this - including air getting into the sample.  Acid-base testing should only be done with a blood gas analyzer.

High TIBC does not mean iron overload.  It may well mean the diet has high levels of iron but increasing the iron binding capacity [TIBC] is how the body efficiently deals with this.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com   2 for 1 extended until January 31
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


-

 

 

 

 


Re: New to this and need some help

Nancy C
 

Hi Dee

I may have missed a conversation about this earlier, if so, I apologize. While it's okay to have it, most horses don't need the chromium as it is abundant in most hays unless grown on alkaline soil.  Here in the Northeast our soils are usually acidic unless amended by the grower and in this case soils should be neutral.  IOW, setting up conditions where the crop can take up the chromium in the soil.

Is it okay to have chromium?  I believe so, but it is not usually needed.

Just worked with three hays, grown by three farmers, 30 miles part in New England.  All three totally different. 

The Uckele has really good copper and zinc and a good amount of magnesium.  You may or may not need that much.  Not sure I would use this as a general base long term though a compilation of hay tests over the long term will help you decide. Something to look forward to.  :-) None of these general balancers replaces the gobsmacking benefits of testing and balancing your hay, so glad you are working in that direction.

Hopefully Dr Kellon might comment as to any changes in this next bit I'm about to add:

We usually talk about not adding the B Vits -- niacin, thiamine and riboflavin -- for our IR horses. Most of them get adequate in their hays and/or can generate what they need in the hind gut. There is research that indicates these three can be problematic for the IR horse.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/99124

Thanks for showing us that dealing with our yahoo sites does get easier.  Takes little practice but one you have it down it is so worth it.

Really glad to her Granite is doing better.  Makes your heart sing.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ECIR Group Inc.


---In EquineCushings@..., <qhmare1994@...> wrote :

I've been looking at Uckele U-Balance Foundation and wondering if that would be a good plan as a base.  I'm waiting to hear back from the company to find out if there is chromium in it, and how much.  It's not listed in the ingredients, but in the description it says it's there.

Hang in there with navigation.... it does get easier!

Dee, Granite and Saphira
Aroostook County, ME - 9/06
Case History: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Dee%20in%20ME%20and%20Granite/
Photos:
Granite
Saphira

 


Re: Need some help with my mare

tara sullivan
 

Hi Candace,  I totally appreciate and always try to implement an integrative approach-most definitely  to preserve health.   And I am very happy that you are still enjoying the company of your doggy (and a BIG doggy!).  I surely wish that all my mare had was a FUO.

 But, I truly believe that for this crisis she has totally benefited from the use of modern pharmaceuticals...and that no homeopathic remedy, herb or other complimentary therapy (and I believe in all of these modalities!) could have pulled her thru the acute phase of infection.  I still have a sick horse. Just not one with an out of control infection.
There is alot we still don't know....and I can't express how frustrating this is...and the testing, I feel, is necessary.  She has a serious anemia...of unknown origin.  The biggest culprits for this condition, as I understand it, are: cancer, secondary condition to infection, and drug induced.  I need to know if the pergolide is involved in her sickness. 
 
And, yes, finding an alternative practitioner is quite challenging...but they are "out there"

Tara and Divina
NY 2015


Re: New to this and need some help

 

I've been looking at Uckele U-Balance Foundation and wondering if that would be a good plan as a base.  I'm waiting to hear back from the company to find out if there is chromium in it, and how much.  It's not listed in the ingredients, but in the description it says it's there.

Hang in there with navigation.... it does get easier!

Dee, Granite and Saphira
Aroostook County, ME - 9/06
Case History: 
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Dee%20in%20ME%20and%20Granite/
Photos:
Granite
Saphira

 


Re: Need some help with my mare

Candace Costis
 

HI
I'll just throw in my two cents. My Airedale had FUO - fever of unknown origin. Apparently it is common. Instead of throwing money at a bunch of tests and losing the dog anyway, I kept him home and used homeopathics to keep him alive. You might search around and see if you can find some knowledgeable people in alternative medicine. They approach things differently and have excellent results in some areas where conventional medicine does not. My dog and I are alive today because of that fact. And, fyi, it is really difficult to find reputable alternative practitioners. 
Candace
10/15
NE of AustinTx.

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