Date   

Re: EOTRH

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

EOTRH. was discussed in a recent double issue of Dr. Kellon's The Horse's Mouth, 10/20/15 in a very informative and detailed article on teeth.

Just want to take a sec to mention what an incredible source of information this  e-mag has been to me over the past four + years.  The magazine has its own Board so that subscribers can post questions to Dr. Kellon and there is the opportunity to request topics for future articles.  I recently requested an article on Levamisole and not  only did I receive excellent information on the history of Levamisole and its uses, I had the opportunity to ask follow up questions and got the answers I needed on the THM Board.

Dr. Kellon, Thank you for this publication. :-)

I apologize if I went a bit off topic.

Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI  01/08

www.drkellon.com






Re: EOTRH

Lorna Cane
 



>>Ok, what is EORTH?  I get it's something to do with teeth, but that's all.


There are over 77,000 hits if it is Googled.


Here's one:

https://www.acvs.org/files/proceedings/2012/data/papers/156.pdf




Lorna in Ontario,Canada

ECIR Moderator 2002

 

http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

 

 




Re: Holsteiner Mare/New PPID DX

Susi Gordon, MD
 

Hallo Lavinia:

Thank you for your prompt and informative reply.  It has been a good number of years since I had to deal with PPID.  Unfortunately, I am here again.

Thank you for the informative links and comments.

--I will discontinue the Mov-Ease since its addition was a knee jerk reaction on my part.  I never felt that there was an arthritic component to Teggi's lameness, but I felt a sense of urgency until I could get her to the veterinary lameness specialist.

--I neglected to put in her history that she IS on the recommended dose of Vit E gel caps from Swanson.

--The salt in her diet has been a long standing issue.  I have never been able to get to 1 oz daily without having her refuse her supplements altogether.  Yes, I have performed all of the standard "get them to eat" approaches as recommended by this group.

--Glucose and Leptin are pending, but if the assessment is that the glucose is not needed based upon the insulin value alone, then I will cancel the glucose draw for this coming Thursday.  Please confirm that I am reading your recommendations correctly.  I will not cancel the leptin.

--I do, at least, remember how to soak hay. Thank you for the reminder.

--I live in Southern California where alfalfa is the feed of choice.  Barn management will not provide other hay.  I will need to purchase this myself which is currently running at $23/bale.  Unfortunately, board fees are not reduced if one does not use the provided hay.  I realise that this is my issue and not yours. I will figure it out.

--I had already planned to start at 1 mg pergolide orally daily.  My biggest question was if it was better for a bid or a qd dosing.  That question has been answered with the response to Claire's question regarding dosing. My veterinarian is willing to write a prescription for compounded pergolide, but she is strongly recommending Prascend.  I do see that the Prascend is a scored tablet that only comes in 1 mg tablets.  I doubt that cutting that tablet further into smaller pieces would make for an accurate dose.  Therefore, it would seem that the compounded pergolide might be prescribed in the smaller doses. Is this a correct assumption with regard to the compounded pergolide?

--My flax is Nutraflax from Horsetech.  I kept her on 2 oz as she gained a fair amount of weight on the 4-6 oz dosing.

--I do have APF Pro on hand.  Contraindications noted.

--I do not have fotos to upload.

If you see any additional errors in management, please do not hesitate to let me know. 

Regards,
Susi Gordon, MD
ECHorsekeeping Moderator
California/United States
November 2003


---In EquineCushings@..., <shilohmom@...> wrote :


Hi Susie,

The link to Teggi's case history works fine:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Teggi/Equine%20History%20Form.doc





Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Holsteiner Mare/New PPID DX

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 


Hi Susie,

The link to Teggi's case history works fine:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Teggi/Equine%20History%20Form.doc

Until Dr. Kellon has a chance to chime in, here are a few links and some info that might help:

A recent post from Dr. Kellon regarding jiaogulan and Previcox:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/198621

Previcox will interfere with Mov-Ease as well.

When you plug the insulin value into the IR calculator, Teggi comes up severely IR:

http://ecirhorse.org/index.php/insulin-resistance/ir-calculator-leptin

Leptin will help differentiate whether this is only PPID driven or there is likely a baseline component as well. Either way, diet needs to be tight. Salt for her size should be at least 2 TBS (1oz) daily, flax 4-6oz, vit E 1000iu per 500lbs bodyweight - gelcaps with oil in them are the most economical. Until the hay analysis comes in showing a safe ESC+Starch should soak the hay before feeding - 1hour cold water or 1/2 hour in hot and drain the water here she cannot get to it. Many IR horses do not tolerate alfalfa without getting footsore so would recommend removing that as well, at least for now.

With the ACTH 58.4pg/ml, a starting dose of 1mg pergolide would seem a reasonable place to start. Titrating to the target dose is suggested to help prevent possible pergolide veil symptoms - start with .25mg for 3-4 days then raise by .25mg every 3-4 days until you reach your target does. Retest after 2-3 weeks at target dose to assess control. APF, manufactured by Auburn Labs, can be also be helpful in preventing the "pergolide veil" when first starting the drug. APF and Jiaogulan shouldn't be used together.

It would also be helpful if you could put any xrays and current hoof photos into an album in the PHOTOS section of ECHistory8.

HTH.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: EOTRH

lj friedman
 

why it's,equine odontoclastic tooth resorption and hypercementosis.., of course


Re: International Safe Feeds Sources Database

Shannon Chastain
 

I know I am a member I have been trying for weeks to get to that document, I have tried on one of the other ones too probably my old PC. Anyway you could send it to me email? My address is wagaman at rpt dot coop

wagaman@...

 

From: EquineCushings@... [mailto:EquineCushings@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 8:47 PM
To: EquineCushings@...
Subject: RE: [EquineCushings] International Safe Feeds Sources Database

 

 

HI Shannon -

you are a member of this group - the main ECIR yahoo outreach - and you should be able to access this link as it is part of this main group.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/3a%20Feeds/

Not sure why you are having a problem, but it may help to shut down/reboot your computer and try again.  You should be able t get to the info.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ECIR Group Inc.

image

ECIR Group Inc.

The ecirhorse.org website is complimentary to the Equine Cushing's and Insulin Resistance outreach group.

Preview by Yahoo

 






---In EquineCushings@..., <wagaman@...> wrote :

Guess my snip did not copy over, I get a message that says you must be a member before you can view the attachment.

 


Re: EOTRH

Chanda
 

Ok, what is EORTH?  I get it's something to do with teeth, but that's all.


Chanda
MT 9/04


EOTRH

lj friedman
 

Poor Jesse has EOTRH.  My research says Warmbloods are more likely to get this,,Jesse is a warmblood, a horse on pellets is more likely to get it, Jesse eats tim pellets and that ppid horses are also more likely to get it as well. Good thing I use a vet who specializes in teeth.  Poor horse. It is supposed to be painful and Jesse is stoic.. For the past 2 weeks he has been sticking his tongue out while riding , so I suspected something was wrong.. . On a brighter note, the vet didn't recognize Jesse as he was the vet to prescribe pergolide last year and hadn;t seen him since and this group did transform him to looking great ..I had 2 other vets look in his mouth between that time, but they didn't see any problems..I had xrays done today  and this seems to be classic EORTH,,  an adscess on x ray and a pustule on the gums,  ..lj friedman san diego nov 2014.


Re: International Safe Feeds Sources Database

Nancy C
 

HI Shannon -

you are a member of this group - the main ECIR yahoo outreach - and you should be able to access this link as it is part of this main group.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/3a%20Feeds/

Not sure why you are having a problem, but it may help to shut down/reboot your computer and try again.  You should be able t get to the info.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ECIR Group Inc.

 







---In EquineCushings@..., <wagaman@...> wrote :

Guess my snip did not copy over, I get a message that says you must be a member before you can view the attachment.

 


Re: International Safe Feeds Sources Database

Shannon Chastain
 

Guess my snip did not copy over, I get a message that says you must be a member before you can view the attachment.

 

From: EquineCushings@... [mailto:EquineCushings@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 6:16 PM
To: EquineCushings@...
Subject: RE: [EquineCushings] International Safe Feeds Sources Database

 

 

Yes that is the link I click on here is what I get:

From: EquineCushings@... [mailto:EquineCushings@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 5:15 PM
To: EquineCushings@...
Subject: RE: [EquineCushings] International Safe Feeds Sources Database

>>Again I am also a “member” of this yahoo group and again I cannot see the Safe Feed Database someone PLEASE help.

Do you mean you go here and cannot open it?

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/3a%20Feeds/

Lorna in Ontario,Canada

ECIR Moderator 2002

<http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf> http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Latest on pergolide dosing?

janieclougher@...
 

Hi, Claire -  Currently (but always subject to change as more data become available), the thought is to use one dose daily for a "main" dose. If there seems to be some breakthrough in ACTH  before the next dose, then add a supplemental dose. Many horses seem to do better at, for example, 2 mg once daily, than 1 mg twice daily. Some horses, when they get up to the higher doses, do better with the big dose once daily (say, 15 or 20 mg or whatever), then a supplemental dose of 5 mg or so 12 hours later.  As always, it depends on the horse.  It would be nice if we could do ACTH testing twice daily to check, not to mention a bunch more pharmacokinetic studies in horses,  (in my dreams!); til that time comes, I am sorry to say it will largely be a judgement call as to what works best for your crew.  If they are doing well on the current twice daily dosing, then stick with that. If ACTH shows you need to increase, then just increase one of the doses.

With regards to when to give the largest dose, normal horses have the highest cortisol in the morning, so theoretically it would make sense to give the pergolide at noon to allow a more normal rhythm.  However,  PPID horses, and lots of normal horses, may not have a clear rhythm at all:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8045104  (kind of a fun study!)

So, in the absence of other information, and since noon is usually a very inconvenient time to be dosing horses, give the main dose when it is most convenient, as long as it is at roughly the same time every day.

Clear as mud?  There are still just not enough hard data out there! (that I could find in my searches, anyway)

Dr. Kellon, if you have more information (which I am willing to bet you have), please jump in!


 



........What are the current pergolide dosing recommendations?  once a day? If so, what time is best? or twice a day?


Claire in AZ
Aug 2000


Re: International Safe Feeds Sources Database

Shannon Chastain
 

Yes that is the link I click on here is what I get:







From: EquineCushings@yahoogroups.com [mailto:EquineCushings@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2016 5:15 PM
To: EquineCushings@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [EquineCushings] International Safe Feeds Sources Database







Again I am also a “member” of this yahoo group and again I cannot see the Safe Feed Database someone PLEASE help.






Do you mean you go here and cannot open it?



https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/3a%20Feeds/







Lorna in Ontario,Canada

ECIR Moderator 2002



<http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf> http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Latest on pergolide dosing?

shotgun.ranch@...
 

Hello
I've been out of the loop for awhile, so need to update my protocol.
What are the current pergolide dosing recommendations?  once a day? If so, what time is best? or twice a day?

I've been looking at the files & past posts and can't seem to find an answer.

I have 2 horses on compounded pergolide from Pet Health Pharmacy, both are getting 1.25 mg a day. 0.75 mg in the morning & 0.50 mg at night. I will be testing ACTH levels in a week or two to see if I can decrease dosage now that we are over the seasonal high. Thinking this would be the best time to make any changes to dosing intervals, etc.
Any input is much appreciated.
Claire in AZ
Aug 2000


Re: International Safe Feeds Sources Database

Lorna Cane
 



>>Again I am also a “member” of this yahoo group and again I cannot see the Safe Feed Database someone PLEASE help.

 



Do you mean you go here and cannot open it?


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/files/3a%20Feeds/

 



Lorna in Ontario,Canada

ECIR Moderator 2002

 

http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

 

 


Re: International Safe Feeds Sources Database

Shannon Chastain
 

Again I am also a “member” of this yahoo group and again I cannot see the Safe Feed Database someone PLEASE help.

 

Shannon Chastain

Rock Port MO

 

From: EquineCushings@... [mailto:EquineCushings@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 8:28 PM
To: EquineCushings@...
Subject: [EquineCushings] International Safe Feeds Sources Database

 

 

****INTERNATIONAL SAFE FEED SOURCES DATABASE****

 

Looking for or know a retailer selling safe feeds in your area?

 

The International Safe Feed Sources Database (also known as the “Safe Feed List” is a listing of member-submitted retailers that sell safe feeds. While no feed is guaranteed safe, the database is sorted by country, state/province, and town to make it easy to find local stores selling ECIR suggested feeds: Unmolassed Beet Pulp, ODTB Cubes, Poulin Equi-Pro Carb Safe, Standlee Products, Stabul 1, Triple Crown products, Speedi-Beet and Maxisoy and more.

 

View the International Safe Feed Sources Database

 

Submit a retailer to the International Safe Feed Sources Database   

 

If you have any questions or need assistance changing previously submitted information, please email Susie at

Dogs.r.us@... 

 

Thank you for contributing your information and helping equines worldwide.  There is no better way to “give back” to the ECIR than by contributing your information

 

-Susie Cranney

Susie and Samson Jan 2012

Central California

International Safe Feeds List Database Coordinator

 


Re: Holsteiner Mare/New PPID DX

Susi Gordon, MD
 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/echistory8/files/Teggi/Equine%20History%20Form.doc

Dr. Kellon,

LeeAnne sent this link.  I believe it will get you to my history.  I see that it ends in ".doc" and not a backslash, but I hope this works.

Thank you.

Regards,
Susi Gordon, MD
ECHorsekeeping Moderator
California/United States
November 2003


Holsteiner Mare/New PPID DX

Susi Gordon, MD
 

Dear Dr. Kellon,

I have just uploaded my case history for my Holsteiner mare, Teggi, at EC8.  I've tried 2x to post the link, but I am not doing something correctly.  I will ask LeeAnne to help me or I will try again. 

Some labs, hay analysis, and hay fed in weight are still pending, but I think the critical values are there.

My questions:

--Should I discontinue the Mov-Ease (I've noted in the comment why I started it)
--Your thoughts on the Previcox (Dr. Hoge wanted it 2 weeks on; then off, then video gait again)
--What should be our starting dose of pergolide?
--How soon after starting should I check another ACTH again?

I am fortunate that I have two local and regional veterinarians who are excellent and who understand the issues.  They are also aware of you, your work, and this site. 

Teggi's lameness exam  provided objective and quantifiable data.  We also have videos for future comparison. 

Thank you again and

Kind regards,
Susi Gordon, MD
ECHorsekeeping Moderator
California/United States
November 2003



Re: CH Link / was Princess new x-rays. sue & princess

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 


---In EquineCushings@..., <windybriars@...> wrote :

Princess's CH:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/ECHistory5/files/princesslegacy/

 

==================

Thanks,Lorna. I found that one but it's 3.5 years old.  I was looking for a narrative of how her lameness has progressed because these current films are worse than September.

Well over 50% of her coffin bone is gone, more than in September. Her bone column is becoming upright and may progress to knuckling over soon. Calcification of the collateral cartilages is more pronounced although there are also areas where it looks like they may be degenerating.  The coffin bone and pastern bone both show "fuzziness" (proliferative changes) that are most consistent with osteomyelitis - infection of the bone. That is much worse than it was on the September films.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


 

 

 


Re: Fw: Icelandic gelding Numi

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Cindy,


>>Pergolide is at what I believe to be top end of dosing 20cc/day.


This is the liquid form,right?
How many mg are in 20cc?
Can you switch over to encapsulated compounded pergolide? The liquid isn't very stable, and *could* be part of the problem.

>>Wondered about switching to the other drug now available.

Remind me what this new drug is?

Anxious to see the CH when you can get to computer.

If you delete the old messages from your new one,it will save the people reading Digest format from sticking pins in their eyes,from rereading what they already have seen.
They have to scroll through it all to get to the next new message, unfortunately.





Re: CH Link / was Princess new x-rays. sue & princess

Lorna Cane
 

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