Date   

Re: Volunteers are Our Lifeblood

Shannon Krahenbuhl
 

Thank you thank your for all that you do for our beloved horses. --------------------------------------------


Re: Winter Weather=lighter workload=no oats=slow hoof growth?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

He's absolutely right that hoof growth slows in winter. It is a combination of less/no exercise and colder temperatures decreasing blood flow.  The oats have nothing to do with this.  You could try Jiaogulan to counteract it.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com   2 for 1 continued until January 31

EC Co-owner
Feb 2001




Re: CH Link / was Princess new x-rays. sue & princess

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Your most recent radiographs are darker (more exposed) but this does not necessarily mean "better".  The greater contrast can burn through and hide minor bone changes. Despite that, the bone changes are clearly more advanced.  The question is when they occurred and if they are ongoing.  I'm sure you know the significance of osteomyelitis.

For the benefit of new members, balanced diet has nothing to do with how much you feed. We have starting point feed recommendations especially for horses that need to lose weight but the balancing refers to mineral levels and ratios.  Hay analysis is used to determine those needs and also to check that the sugar and starch levels in the hay are not too high. Osteomyelitis can easily take center stage but if IR is not also controlled there will be ongoing laminar weakness/damage, circulatory compromise and pain from that.


Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com   2 for 1 continued until January 31

EC Co-owner
Feb 2001










Winter Weather=lighter workload=no oats=slow hoof growth?

lauramollrich
 

Can someone please answer a couple of questions I currently have.  Because of the El Nino rains here in Sunny Cal. I have had to cut back on P's workload because the dressage arena has been closed--it's a lake at times.  So, I am unable to feed oats.  His front feet aren't growing even after 6 weeks. Also, I had an excellent farrier we now call, "Mr. Hollywood--he will be travelling to the Olympics to shoe a couple of horses he does on a regular basis--so he started pawning off his 3rd rate replacement to our stable  He did some damage and caused flaring in P's fronts that caused him to be sore.


I have a new farrier that after 1 shoeing corrected a lot of it and also helped his way of going.  He told me yesterday that his feet don't grow much in the front but that is common in the winter?  Is there anything I can feed him to get more growth and better hoof quality since he isn't getting oats?


L Mollrich,CA

ECHistory5



Re: New to this and need some help

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 


---In EquineCushings@..., <angels0115@...> wrote :

I have noticed that U Balance make an IR blend. Is that better than the Foundation blend?
============

U Balance Foundation is a full spectrum vitamin and mineral supplement designed for high iron and/or manganese hays. U Balance IR is primarily an antioxidant supplement which also boosts levels of biotin, magnesium.  Although there are conflicting results regarding circulating inflammatory cytokine levels in IR horses, a recent study has confirmed high oxidative stress damage in the fat of IR horses:

Equine Metabolic Syndrome Affects Viability, Senescence, and Stress Factors of Equine Adipose-Derived Mesenchymal Stromal Stem Cells: New Insight into EqASCs Isolated from EMS Horses in the Context of Their Aging

 

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com   2 for 1 continued until January 31

EC Co-owner
Feb 2001
 


Re: Pergolide costs

bectonliterary
 

Thanks for the link! LOL I suppose historical numbers are better than nothing. I've been getting quotes from pharmacies, so now I have some current numbers too. :D

Jennifer and Darcy in SC
October 2011


Re: CH Link / was Princess new x-rays. sue & princess

Nancy C
 

Hi Sue

I’ve been following your case because as you may remember, I’ve gone through a time with osteomyelitis.  It is not as severe as Princess. I have however, been present at barns where horses have been as bad as Princess.

It is a really stressful time. Thanks for putting up more photos. You’ve brought the group a description of miraculous turn around and because the group is founded on asking for details, we hope you will be able to please help us with follow up questions going forward.

I am struck in the most recent rads that  her CB is far more upright than in the September.  That  will continue to add more bone loss, IME an can lead to  her going over at the knee from contraction. I notice she is lifting her RF in the photos. If she were here I’d want to know how the team might be addressing that.

You mention she is eating better.  Has she gained any weight? Can’t tell from the blanket.

In reading this clinical review on Ozone, from 2011 I can see how external use might, perhaps, be good for  osteomyelitis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312702/

The disadvantages of internal use described in the above study would give me pause. A thrombosed vein would concern me especially since it sounds like it has happened before with this procedure.  I may not be understanding you correctly.

I would also be concerned about the increased proliferation Dr Kellon mentioned. I would encourage you to use the procedures Dr Kellon suggested for determining her infection status.  As you have heard you cannot know from external viewing. 

I now you are tired and stressed. Hope you can please continue to find your way to  help us with the details.

Many thanks.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ECIR Group Inc.

 




 

let me know  thanks sue & princess oh 6/11

ECHistory5

 



-





Volunteers are Our Lifeblood

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 


Everything you learn from the ECIR outreach groups is the result of many hardworking people from all backgrounds who share the passion for our special horses. The ECIR group is made up of veterinarians, farriers, nutritionists, and medical doctors. There are those of us who do not have scientific backgrounds, but are everyday horse owners who found our way to ECIR when we didn’t know where to turn.

ECIR Group is over 12,000 international members on Yahoo outreach alone.   By collecting histories and laboratory data from thousands of horses with PPID and IR, we have been able to carefully monitor responses to treatment and management changes, both good and bad. This is real life, in-the-barn, research at its best. It is also the largest field trial in the world.  No one else has what the ECIR Group has.

There is much more to come. This work can not be done without the help of a growing group of passionate volunteers, many of whom you have never seen. 

Our deepest thanks go to our 2015 army of volunteers who:

Review and summarize the latest research
Provide reports from personal barn experiences
Help us understand equine physiology
Help us understand our diagnosis, diet, trim and exercise plans
Guide newcomers in learning the ropes
Provide behind-the-scenes organization
Aid in conference planning
Assist with our web site and internet development
Help us with public relations
Help raise funds for nonprofit goals
Manage our administrative needs 
Provide ongoing online support
Guide us through their governance oversight.

We are all educators who make our world a better place by sharing the knowledge we gain from our experiences and our skill sets. Thanks to these generous volunteers:

2015 ECIR Group outreach volunteers

Susan, Web Support
Cassandra Bernstein, Tech Ambassador
George Brown, Tech Ambassador
LeeAnne Bloye, Archivist, Databases
Lorna Cane, Moderator
Nancy Collins, Moderator, Administration, Facebook
Claire Cox, Moderator
Jaini Clougher, BSc., BVSc., Moderator
Susie Cranney, Databases, Tech Ambassador
Ferne Fedeli, Databases
Amberlee Ficociello, Web Support
Lavinia Fiscaletti, Moderator
Lesley Fraser, Tech Ambassador
Ulrike Popkin-Gast, Databases
Susie Gordon, MD, Moderator
Kathleen Gustafson, PhD, Research, Databases
Carla Hawks, Databases, Web Support
Jennie Hollis, Moderator
Cheryl Hooper, Moderator
Casey James, Databases
Eleanor M. Kellon, VMD, Moderator, Chief Volunteer
Cheryl Kirkus, Moderator
Susie (Sita) Laurino - Databases
Fran Metzger, Databases, Facebook
Pauline Naudi, Primary Response
Teresa Palumbo, Moderator
Joan Plevich, Databases
Maggie Rodgers, Moderator, Primary Response
Valeree Smith, Moderator
Jannalee Smithey, EDO, Databases, Administration
Patty Sobel, Databases

2015 Conference organizers and helpers:

Judy and Bill Carson
Jaini Clougher, BSc., BVSc.
Nancy Collins
Ulrike Popkin-Gast
Kathleen Gustafson, PhD
Christi Humphrey
Barbara Kelly
Christina Kuenen
Jodie Jensen
Eleanor M. Kellon, VMD
Cindy McGinley
Maggie Rodgers
Jannalee Smithey, EDO

Extra special thanks to:

Fran and Paul Metzger, Conference Hosts
Natalie Washburn, Super Conference Volunteer
Allana Kereluk,Graphic Design

2015 ECIR Group Inc. nonprofit volunteers:

Lorna Cane, Advisory Body
Nancy Collins, Treasurer, Director
Jaini Clougher, BSc., BVSc., President, Director, Veterinary Advisor
Claire Cox, Advisory Body, Nominating Committee
Kathleen Gustafson, PhD, Director, Research Advisor
Christi Humphrey, Governance, Organizational
Eleanor M. Kellon, VMD, Veterinary Advisor
Patti Kuvik, Advisory Body, Financial, Nominating Committee
Fan Metzger, Director, PR
Jannalee Smithey, EDO, Secretary, Director, Research 

Extra special thanks to:

Harry Vogel, Senior Biologist, Executive Director, Loon Preservation Committee, Governance, Research
Roberta McCollum, CPA, MBA, MST, Toscano, Ardito, and McCollum, PC, CPA, Financial 
VPGraphix, Web Support


Lastly, but by far the most important, thank you to the horses and their owners who have sought out and supported the ECIR Group by contributing their data.  It cannot be done without you.

Eleanor in PA



“You know those credit card commercials that run through a bunch of things with price tags and end with a moment that's "priceless"? That is truly how I feel every time a new member comes here frazzled or wired and strung out after being told their horse, pony, donkey or mule should be euthanized and then later tells us about the light coming back in their eyes, those first voluntary steps out of a stall, the first spontaneous trot, buck or canter or when the feet start to concave and a hundred other positive signs of getting well. Most of all, it's about the animals.”  

Eleanor M Kellon, VMD



Re: Pergolide Cost Comparison

Elena Knox
 

FYI: I bought a box of 60 pergolide 1 mg tablets (Prascend) for $111. at Valley Vet, an online pharmacy. 

 合掌 gasshou

Elena Knox
209.295.5101 home
209.256.2500 cell


Re: International Safe Feeds Sources Database

The Pitchfork Princess <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>
 

You are very welcome Melinda.  I know too well the frustration of not being able to do what seems to be standard for everyone else.  The answers to these questions ARE out there.  These "elementary"  (as you put it) user level questions have been asked and answered on line.  The hard part is finding the correct terms to use when using a search engine to find instructions on  how to do what it is you are trying to do.  Trial and error, doing searches, then skimming the results to find either the page with the information or picking out the terms to use that will lead to the answer you seek.  

I am glad that you can finally take advantage of all the information in the files!    
Cheers!
   
- ​LeeAnne, Newmarket, Ontario

ECIR Archivist 03/2004

 

Are you in the Pergolide Dosage Database?

​​
   
View the Database Stats 
Taken For Granite Art - Lightweight Cement Sculpture and Memorials


Re: Case History question

The Pitchfork Princess <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>
 

Hi Nancy,
In my opinion, a case history should absolutely include all food changes, but this isn't my decision. 
As I see it, a case history is akin to the kind of notes made in science experiments. Without which, we can't measure the merit of management changes.  With the full history intact, over time the case history shows, not just owners but other members and equine professionals how seemingly small dietary changes influence an equine's health/laminitis recovery.  The intact record is as valuable to the owner as it is to group.  Over the years I've often seen the volunteers refer to the changes that have brought about healthier horses when members need a little encouragement to keep with diet programs.  How many of us have looked back over our own case histories and shook our heads at our own old management practices?   

Keeping old recorded amounts does make for a long case history.  My mare's 10 year history is 42 pages - but I of course included a few blood chemistry panels in there.  To make finding information in a long case history a little easier, when updating the form last year,  I separated it with more tables and added the "quick links".  Members can further  ease finding current ration/supplement/ medication information by colouring the cells that contain the current information.  (I used green cell colour.) Colour-marking current amounts wasn't included in the case history instructions for fear of "micro managing" and further overloading new members. However, if the volunteers agree about the usefulness of the old information and want members to mark the current information  in a colour, that can be arranged and easily done when updating.  

 If volunteers don't want the case history cluttered with old feed information, the instructions can be amended.  The main purpose of the case history form is to get equines the help they need, not just a reference for management  changes.  If you think it is more important to have case histories uncluttered for ease of use that is what we will do.  Just let me know as I  have no experience using the case histories to answer member's questions but do think it is very important that they be the best tool they can be. 

- ​LeeAnne, Newmarket, Ontario

ECIR Archivist 03/2004

 

Are you in the Pergolide Dosage Database?

​​
   
View the Database Stats 
Taken For Granite Art - Lightweight Cement Sculpture and Memorials


Re: Pergolide Cost Comparison

janieclougher@...
 

Hi, Jennifer -  I couldn't find anything in the files, but I did find this post from August 2012.  However, as you can see, it is now of historical interest only!


https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/EquineCushings/conversations/messages/170488


Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/

 




-
I am trying to research the costs of pergolide.....

Jennifer and Darcy in SC
October 2011



Re: worming protocol

janieclougher@...
 

Good work, Nancy - sounds like parasitism may have been the smoking gun. Enjoy the NRC Plus class - it is so worthwhile!




Jazzi finally began to gain weight and her coat softened within days of the first dose of ivermectin and Strongid (given several days apart)......
Nancy and Jazzi
March 2013
San Diego County


Re: CH Link / was Princess new x-rays. sue & princess

sue wolf <wolffarm4@...>
 

hello again,
I'm sorry i disagree on the x-rays in sept. there not as good as the ones I just posted this month. in sept we were still fighting infections in the hoof. this is after the first trim with Jeremiah. there was a lot of infection we did maggots for a month or longer and so much more. so I would think  that there could be more damage.  talking to Jeremiah and his referring to other vets and farriers they can believe that princess is doing so good.  they never saw a horse that bad up and eating ect.. its nothing to be proud.  this little girl has one hell of a fight in her and I will do everything in my power to help her help herself.
 the infection we plan to do another x-ray again but both the vet and farrier thinks its clear in the bad hoof but still some lingers in the club. the ozone will help with this both iv and ozone soak.
Sounds like her vein is becoming thrombosed (clotted). Be alert for facial swelling or prominent veins. I was assured that it was not that. its hard to explain, but I do know about it and will keep a eye out for that. this has happen to donna  when doing a high dose ozone.
on the testing. I have done it yearly but not last year just never posted it. the last ones she was a little high but not as bad as the last test. it was coming down but not in the normal range. we will not do more testing(blood) until we get her hoofs better.    the kinda balanced diet. she gets all the hay she wants 24/7 I don't weigh it I just make sure she has lots at all times. that's why I said kinda balanced. the balanced diet calls for 18 pounds of hay and shes getting much more that that plus all the balanced timothy cubes she wants. plus her vit and min's
if you have anything that can help please let me know but I have my hands full with her and a full time job and keeping things together here. so I don't have to much time to be on the computer.  don't want to sound bitchie but I have my hands full here at home and there's not enough time a day to take care of what I have to and its very stressful. my husband travels and I'm on my own most of the time so If I don't get back to you I will.  .
I did take photos and posted them the sight will be posted to this e-mail.
I was asked if she was down most of the time. NO shes up 65 to 75 % of 24 hours.
she showing signs of improving so that is what we are going to go by. the vet took and showed me a x-ray of a hoof that was so much worse than princess and he asked me if I thought the horse was in pain or dead. I would amuse that it was suffering or put down. I was wrong. this was a little pony that is running in a heard and enjoying life and no pain meds just trimmed regularly.. he said it depends on the animals will to live. its amazing what he has seen horses/pony's heal them self's if they were given the chance. so that what I'm tiring to do now..
I hope I addressed everything..
photos  on the same link above.. not sure if I did it correctly below.
let me know  thanks sue & princess oh 6/11




On Sunday, January 24, 2016 5:11 PM, "drkellon@... [EquineCushings]" wrote:


 
I don't see anything wrong with the quality of her previous radiographs. It's not just an issue of the bone loss. The proliferative changes indicating infection are much more severe. No way to tell if this has been stopped and can't tell from looking at the outside either. You will need to repeat at least one lateral radiograph in 4 to 6 weeks or could run a serum amyloid A level, sensitive indicator of infection and inflammation that would be normal by now if everything has really been corrected.

Please put up a photo of her so we can see her posture.

Sounds like her vein is becoming thrombosed (clotted). Be alert for facial swelling or prominent veins.

Looks like her ACTH, insulin and glucose have not been checked for almost 4 years. Hay analysis? What do you mean by “so-called” balanced diet? She has hemorrhage visible through a white section of hoof wall just below the coronary band on one of her last hoof photos. The location high on the hoof indicates it is recent.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


-





Re: Case History question

Nancy C
 

This would include all food?

Thanks for clarification.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
Learn the facts about IR, PPID, equine nutrition, exercise and the foot.
www.ECIRhorse.org
Check out the FACTS on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/ECIRGroup
Support the ECIR Group Inc., the nonprofit arm of the ECIR Group
ECIR Group Inc.

 



---In EquineCushings@..., <ThePitchforkPrincess@...> wrote :


Previous data should not be taken out, written over or changed.  Newer data (updates) should be added below previous in each section or table.  

If you haven't already, members should read Guidelines for  Filling Out Case Histories, found here in the files:


 


Re: worming protocol

 

Many thanks for the response Jaini!  I will go with the ivermectin and double Strongid protocol to be as safe as possible. After all we have been through, I will do whatever is considered the most safe alternative.  I am sure many here have the same thoughts.

Jazzi finally began to gain weight and her coat softened within days of the first dose of ivermectin and Strongid (given several days apart).  This was the tip I was finally on the right tract. However, I am not sure I have another issue with the hay which only complicates things.  And that is why I am in the NRCplus class. Many thanks!
Nancy and Jazzi
March 2013
San Diego County


Pergolide Cost Comparison

bectonliterary
 

Hi everyone,

I am trying to research the costs of pergolide. I have found the links to compounding pharmacies. I have seen mentions of a "pergolide cost comparison" database (or something like that), but I can't find it. Could someone point me in the right direction?

Jennifer and Darcy in SC
October 2011



Re: Case History question

ThePitchforkPrincess@...
 

Hi all,
I just want to jump in here as a case history should have all your information in it, past,  current and in one single document.
Previous data should not be taken out, written over or changed.  Newer data (updates) should be added below previous in each section or table.  

If you haven't already, members should read Guidelines for  Filling Out Case Histories, found here in the files:

That folder also contains, if needed, directions for both Mac and PC users for adding rows and other editing processes. 

We need not only your current information but as time passes the history - it is this record that shows what works or doesn't for each horse.  It is what helps form protocols.  

- ​LeeAnne, Newmarket, Ontario

ECIR Archivist 03/2004

 

Are you in the Pergolide Dosage Database?

​​
   
View the Database Stats 

Taken For Granite Art - Lightweight Cement Sculpture and Memorials






Re: Holsteiner Mare/New PPID DX

Susi Gordon, MD
 

Thank you, Lavinia.

The leptin was ordered (via combo panel) and is pending.  Having balanced alfalfa hay for some time now, I am aware of the balancing issues. Thank you for reminding me of same.  Will inform vet that she can ask Cornell to run the glucose on the stored blood.  She felt that it was unable to be done.

Understand re salt requirements and its importance as I have been at this since 2003 (balancing) for my horses.  Will see what I can do.

Have appreciated your time and comments.

Regards,
S Gordon, MD
ECHorsekeeping Moderator
California/United States
November 2003


---In EquineCushings@..., <shilohmom@...> wrote :


Re: Feeding multiple horse in dry lot or paddock paradise together

Larks Tabatha
 

Sorry to be a bit late in weighing in on this thread.  I have a Paddock Paradise style dirt track around the perimeter of a half acre pasture where I keep my IR Mare and her companion donkey.  What works for me is to set up separate feed stations around the perimeter with hay nets or Porta Grazers.  When I feed in the morning, I put up a single strand, hot wire "gate" between the horse and donkey.  They horse eats faster, and when she is finished at her first station, she has no choice but to walk around the outside of the track rather than being able to push the donkey away from her food.  With this set up, my mare hits two more feed stations before she would get to the donkey's first feed station, so Maise the donkey gets more uninterrupted feed time and time to finish her supplements and the hay that I weigh out for her, and my mare gets more exercise.  This does require going back out to take down the hot wire gate, after Maisie has finished eating, to give them total access to the track without any barriers.  This seems to be what works best for my two and keeps them at a good weight.  All a grand experiment until you find out what works for yours...

Sally in AZ
April 2013