Date   

My horse has just been diagnosed with Cushings

Heidi.ann@...
 

My main performance man has just been diagnoised with cushings. I am wondering what time of feed plan he should be one. Right now he is on unlimited grass and performance grain.


Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.


Thank you,

Heidi


Help with Shawnee trim again

Melanie GEBERS <taxwizardsmel@...>
 

Shawnee was sound for almost 2 years. He has now has been suffering from Laminitis for over a month.

I have not changed his mineral balanced and low esc  diet, and he is too sore to exercise.  gave him a gram of bute this morning for the first time, and have his soft rides on and he is still not moving very well. I posted some hoof pics  at https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1154, thinking that maybe more toe needs to come off??? He has no raging pulse, no heat, no hard cresty neck. 

Not sure if I did this correctly but do not know where my folder is.

Thank you for any help you can give with his hooves


Melanie and Shawnee and Carrera 

Oregon July 2013


Re: Case History Form

Maggie
 

Hi Laurie,

Here's a link  to the Case History group:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory 

You need to join that group and then you'll find the CH form in the Instructions folder here:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/1%20Case%20History%20Form%20and%20Instructions 

Please sign your posts (in addition to your name) with your date of joining (May 22) and your general location, which helps us to source products for you.

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA 
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response



Re: Case History Form

Lorna Cane
 

Hi Laurie,


I just took the liberty of adding you to the Case Histories group.

Go here for further directions:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory


--

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002


http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf

 


Case History Form

 

Question:

Somewhere in one of the first emails to me, I was promised a case history form would be sent to me.  I haven't seen it yet.  Is it still coming?

 

Thanks,

 

Laurie Higgins

610-608-7864 (cell)

 


Re: Grazing muzzle

Karin Sherbin <ksherbin@...>
 

There are two other options that are not mainstream muzzles. Both are more expensive than the typical basket muzzle but presumably cheaper in the longer run because they don’t wear out as quickly.

 

https://www.greenguardequine.com/?gclid=CKGS0p_m8swCFdNahgodXCUOSg

 

http://www.harmanymuzzle.com/

 

I bought the Harmany muzzle and it does work. But I had a lot of trouble molding it; maybe because I am a klutz. I think now if you pay extra they will mold it for you.

 

Greenguard comes ready-made. Have to measure your waterer to make sure the muzzle will fit.

 

The benefit of either is that they are lighter and allow for unobstructed breathing.

 

 

 

Karin & Inky

Forest, VA

IR/Cushing's

July 27, 2015

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Inky

 

 

 

 

From: main@ECIR.groups.io [mailto:main@ECIR.groups.io] On Behalf Of Kelly Kathleen Daughtry
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 10:03 AM
To: main@ECIR.groups.io
Subject: [ECIR] Grazing muzzle

 

I swore I would never do it, but I'm going to have to put a grazing muzzle on Micah. We board at a wonderful facility but they do not offer a dry lot. There is not a tremendous amount of grass in her pasture but I understand from the group that stressed grass is even worse. 

Does anyone have a preference on the type of muzzle? 

Micah is a IR Arabian mare who is very thin and trying to gain weight.

 

Kelly Daughtry - April 2016

Clayton NC

 


Re: Jean and Deacon - new members

deacsrider <deacsrider@...>
 

 Hi LJ

Thanks for your reply!  Yes the dentist we are using is one of the top specialists in my area and the surgery will be at the local large animal hospital and not on farm.  This will allow them to better monitor his heart while under sedation as he's had sever reaction to sedation (his heart slows down to a dangerous level)  Currently they have advised 2 weeks of antibiotic and 5 days of pain meds.  I'm already dosing him with chlorhexidine at 60cc's chlorhexidine to 1 liter of water.  I'm doing this now because he has gum abscesses and we are trying to keep that under control until surgery.  Abscessing won't go away until the teeth do. 


Re: Jean and Deacon - new members

deacsrider <deacsrider@...>
 

 Hi Sherry,

Thanks so much for the information.  Yes it's overwhelming and I've already considered that he's not a true positive for Cushing's.  I'll treat him as I can until after the surgery.  Vet is telling me he won't heal otherwise.  He's been healing fine with all his other normal cuts and scrapes.  How long after the surgery should I stop the Prascend and have him re-tested?  How long does the Prascend stay in their system?

 As far as soaked hay - he refused to touch it.  He has always been super picky and does not adapt to changes very well.  I'm considering Purina Well Solve LS with 11 NSC for grain.  Still have 200lbs of the Nutrena Pro Force Fuel (sorry for leaving that out) that cannot be returned. Hopefully by slowly introducing with current grain he'll adapt.  Nothing else will matter if I can't get him to eat.

 I started on the Prascend on Friday the 20th and had given the half dose as instructed by my vet before getting your reply on starting with 1/4 dose.  In less than 12 hours after having half dose in his system he had diarrhea.  Thankful I had gotten your reply and the last 3 doses have been at 1/4.  Per your instructions I have 1 more day at this dose and I'll up to half and see how he is.  He's already getting suspicious of anything hand fed as we are giving him the dose that way.  I had to "up my game" last night with multiple non Prascend feedings before slipping the dose in.  He knew when he got the handful with the pill in it.  Any suggestions other than sticking it in a dosing tube? 

Blacksmith is coming Thursday and we will discuss his feet.  He's been working with Deacon since he was a baby and knows his feet well. He's shod in front only and has never had much of a heal.  I'll discuss options with my blacksmith on shortening the toe.

Thank you! 


Re: Emergency diet

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

The focus in the emergency diet is on sugar and starch.  That won't change.  The recommended additions are things that every horse will need.  To balance correctly further you need a hay analysis.  Continuing on is no better or worse than any other unbalanced diet.

The Empower Balance is too high in sugar and starch for many horses (14% average).  A Nutrena rep is never going to recommend anything but a Nutrena product.  I can all but guarantee you it also won't get the job done for your hay.  If you are going to try to use it you will have to ask the company for the iron, manganese and magnesium levels.
--

Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com

EC Owner 2001


Re: Reasons for hoof soreness

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

Could you post some photos of his feet?  It could be something as simple as the AAKG causing more rapid hoof growth so he needs more frequent trimming. Radiographs could be helpful too.
--

Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com

EC Owner 2001


Re: Reasons for hoof soreness

Stephanie Stout
 

Hi Dr. Kellon,

Thanks for replying! He went almost 100% sound in summer, 2015 and then became sore again this winter/spring. I figured it was because of the really cold temperatures(significantly below zero) so I put him on AAKG and ALCAR, and thought/hoped he would get better when it got warmer. Well, it's warmer and he's still quite sore. Exercise is just him limping around his paddock now because he's too sore to go on walks. No NSAIDS or any other drugs besides the Pergolide and his supplements/herbs. His feet don't feel abnormally warm(I check them all the time). You balanced my hay, and I got a custom mix from Uckele, which I'm trying to get him to eat...he absolutely hates it. I finally got him to eat a tiny bit this morning with much begging and mixing.

Regarding trim, his feet are tricky. He absolutely has to be in pads and shoes no matter what(it's been that way since he was young because of the work level and his previous owner whose farrier was the worst in the world!) so he gets them reset about every 6 weeks. He has very 'funky' feet regarding angles, they were whacked horribly with the previous owner, and while they have gotten better over the years before the laminitis, they are still not the ideal. Right now, he's in basic shoes, no clips, with a full-sole pad. Is there a different shoe you would recommend? Or do you think the Gel Impact Pads could possibly help? I know it's not the ideal situation with him having to be in shoes, so I'm trying to work with what he can do. 

Am I missing something else that could be causing the problems? 

Thank you!!

--
Stephanie & King
October 2014
Oregon
Case History 


Emergency diet

Amy
 

Can you tell me how long you recommend the emergency diet? I am awaiting hay test results and soaking in the meantime. My balancer recommended by Nutrena rep that came to my farm is Empower balance, fed at 1 lb split between 2 feedings. Trying to figure out how to get a case report on here..

Thank you.

Amy from Upstate NY


Re: Reasons for hoof soreness

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

What's been going on with him since 2014?  Did he become sound and just recently go sore again or ?????

You seem to have diagnosis and appropriate diet and drugs in place. Is your mineral mix balanced to your current hay? Any drugs beside the pergolide?  What about trim?  Exercise?


--

Eleanor in PA

www.drkellon.com

EC Owner 2001


new hoof photos uploaded for Lavinia's review

 

Hi Lavinia - took some better shots today - 3 days after trim - she is still very sore on front left.  Please let us know how we did - trim went well without any meds required.  How long should I expect her to be sore after this trim?

thanks a bunch -
--
Sharon, April 2016

Courtenay, BC Canada

Elsa,

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sharon%20and%20Elsa

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=987





Reasons for hoof soreness

Stephanie Stout
 

Howdy! 

I'm trying to think of all the reasons why King's feet might be sore. He isn't actively 'foundering' but I think there's some inflammation in his hooves as he's very sore. He did founder severely back in 2014 when his ACTH was off the charts. His latest ACTH came back at 25 pg/mL and his Insulin came back at 35 uIU/mL from Cornell. He's currently on 14mg of Compounded Pergolide from Pet Health and a low s/s grain(just a handful with his Vitamin E, salt). I'm working on getting him to eat the mineral mix(Mr. Picky). The previous hay he was on all fall/winter had high Iron, 365 ppm, so could that of been making his feet sore? It was low s/s, but I just switched him to a different low s/s hay that has lower Iron and sugar(6.7% ESC + starch).

So, what is there that can cause foot soreness besides ACTH? Can mineral levels, specifically Iron, cause sore feet when it is unbalanced? 
-
Stephanie & King
October 2014
Oregon
Case History 


Re: Scout needs some tweaks

Maggie
 

Whoops!  I meant to add the file for the balancing folks if you need it:  


Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA 
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response


Re: Scout needs some tweaks

Maggie
 

Hi Natalie,

You are welcome!  I, and many others here, can feel your pain, having experienced at least some form of what you are going through.

Diagnosis:  As far as the leptin goes, it's good information, but certainly not vital.  If Cornell doesn't still have the blood and you are not drawing blood for anything else, I wouldn't worry about it.  It's good information to have for a baseline level to compare with later lab work, as it may help you to see your progress in getting the IR under control.  Also useful in differentiating if a PPID horse (which Scout is not at this time) has an elevated insulin due to being IR at baseline or if the ACTH is driving the insulin up.

Here's the iron overload file if you haven't found it:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Iron,%20Iron%20Testing,%20Iron%20Overload  The blood has to go to KSU.  The specifics are in the 2nd and 3rd from last files in that folder.  The treatment for iron overload is eliminating the excess iron from the diet, and tightly balancing the minerals.  You might want to contact one of the balancing folks to make sure your minerals are as tightly balanced as possible, OR if you took Dr Kellon's NRCplus class, you can ask on the grads list and someone can help you there.

Lyme can be acute or chronic.  Could be that he got it prior to being dry lotted?  Really the only way to know for sure is to test--worth the $40 IMO.  Lyme goes to Cornell. Here's a link so you can read up ahead of time:  https://ahdc.vet.cornell.edu/test/list.aspx?Species=7&Test_Name=lyme&TstTyp=&WebDisc=   
Click on the Lyme Disease option and a pop up box appears.  Make sure you click on the 2 blue links in the comment section at the top--"Lyme Disease Multiplex Testing for Horses"  and "Lyme Multiplex questions and answers".  


Diet:  Rinse/soak/rinsing (r/s/r) beet pulp washes off the dirt (iron), helps soak out remaining sugars, and final rinse washes all the dirty soaking water away.  It's a labor intensive chore indeed.  One of those things you do get used to, and worth it if your horse actually eats the BP!  I used this paint strainer bag to r/s/r BP when I was feeding it.  http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-1-gal-Elastic-Top-Strainers-2-Pack-11572-36WF/202061359  Some people use a colander.  A time saver is to r/s/r enough BP for a few feedings and store in frig/freezer in serving size amounts in baggies.

Alternatives to BP for supplement carriers are Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes (ODTB's), Nuzu Stabul 1, Soy hull pellets (but those are high in iron and require more balancing minerals).  The ODTB's are guaranteed to be under 10% sugar + starch and the minerals are balanced to Dr Kellon's specifications.  If you add warm water to them they fluff up to a nice soft mass of chopped hay to which the minerals stick.  Lots of us use them as a carrier.  Any place that carries Triple Crown products either carries them or can order them for you.  They have a lavender label sewn into the bottom of the bag.

Yes, that's a lovely tea that the soaked hay makes!  Make sure you dump all that sugary water where the horse(s) can't get to it!  You don't *have* to rinse the hay, but it wouldn't hurt either, as it rinses away additional iron and the sugary soaking water.  The only thing I can tell you about the wet hay hanging in the barn for 6 hours is you will just have to try it and see how it keeps.  I know some people soak and keep their soaked hay in a cooler.  If it's hot and humid, some ice in the cooler would help keep it from going off.  

If you don't need the Ration Plus and probiotics now, it's probably good to stop.  We recommend Ration Plus all the time and though it has a bit of molasses in it, it is considered "safe."  

If I had to choose between the Jiaogulan and ALcar, I would start with the J.  You do want to start one thing at a time so you know what's working.  Here's a good place to buy both:  http://mybesthorse.com/ 

Trim:  Soaking is such pain--especially in the winter!   I usually used ichthammol ointment for poulticing, but I know that Lavinia and Nancy always recommend the Numotizine.  I haven't needed to poutice since joining this group, so haven't tried it.  I didn't have any luck with Animalintexpoutice pad, but maybe others have?  And no experience with the Epsom salt poultice.  Hopefully someone with more experience with that will chime in.  I did try the Magic Cushion and found it to be helpful at times, but a bit more labor intensive to apply.  Here's a little video with some helpful hints:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avY7HGFL6G8  Gloves are an absolute necessity!  I'm sure Lavinia will have an opinion when she gets a chance to reply. 

Yes!  TONS of reading!  You have very obviously been doing a lot of that!  The archived messages also contain a wealth of great information!  Make use of the "search" button to search for answers to your questions, but never hesitate to ask any questions that you have!

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA 
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response


Re: Cresty pony siezures

Lyn Ellis
 

Thanks Lisa. Ruby is looking better today, not doing the wobbly walk! And only day 3 of the emergency diet.

Did your friends horse have typical Cushings symptoms? Although always putting on weight easily, Ruby has always shed her coat normally in the spring, and her winter coat is dense as you would expect of a pony in our cold winters, but not excessively long like the typical Cushings look. Was he diagnosed with Cushings from blood tests before he was put onto the Pergolide? Ruby's turns are really like a faint. She just staggers briefly then drops like a stone but then straight back up as if there has been a lack of blood to the brain. I will talk to my vet about what you have said and it does raise my hopes!. I am hoping to have a telephone consult with an equine osteopath and am looking into the acupuncture possibility. Unfortunately I live in a rural area that seems to be hard to get those sort of professionals to visit. They are always reluctant to travel this far just for 1 horse.

Lyn and Ruby

Braidwood, Australia

2016


Re: Scout needs some tweaks

natalie zielinski
 

Thanks Maggie for the welcome and insight to this incredibly frustrating situation.  

I will have the Leptin tested.  The Vets were gone by the time I called so if Cornell does not still have the blood Monday morning, we will draw more Monday afternoon.  

I do worry about Iron overload and will search the threads for testing information.  I would be really surprised by lyme seeing as he is in a dry lot and the fields are kept short all around, but certainly worth the test.  Thank you! 


Diet- I will soak his hay.  How long weeks/months before we would know if this is helping?  Are there any good tips for this?  I put his hay in 2 freedom feeders and placed them in a giant trough for an hour.  The water turned brown red like a strong brewed iced tea.  I pulled them out and let then hang for 10 minutes for the water to run off.  Do I have to "rinse" it?  I have a pet sitter who feeds lunch everyday.  I can soak the hay from 6:30-7:30 am then it would sit in the barn until 1pm when the pet sitter comes to feed.  Is that going to cause problems, sitting in the barn for 6 hours?

I had misunderstood from a different site and thought you only had to rinse Beet pulp if it had molasses (which mine does not).  I was not previously soaking and rinsing.  I started last night.  Any tips for this, use a strainer?  I made a mess of my barn aisle :)

I was using Ration Plus and CSR gold probiotics due to all 3 horses having some diarrhea when we got to the last 2 rows of the hay in the barn last spring.  I saw they both had molasses but it is such a small amount I thought it was okay.  I will stop.  

Calculations- I just uploaded my excel calculation page. I add the minerals  below.  


Phosphorous  4.76g 

Calcium 0

Potassium 0

Magnesium 7.01g 

Sodium 2 ounces of iodine white salt

Copper 238.3 mg 

Iron 0

Zinc 751.3 mg

Manganese 0 

Selenium 1. 54

Trim- best news ever to stop soaking.  We both HATE it!  I use the Animalintex Poultice Pad or Epson Salt Poultice Flowable Formula by Kaeco.  I tried Magic Cushion and it used all my grace in one night.  I found it very difficult to apply, so I went back to the other products.  Do you find the products I use above to be sub par or effective.  I can switch if necessary


I will read up on the Jiaogulan and/or ALcar.  


Phew!  I have some reading to do.  Any suggestions on the logistics for soaking the feed would be really helpful. 

--
Natalie 02-2016

Milwaukee, WI USA

Scout Case History Photo Album


Re: mineral supplier - Vancouver Island

 

My hays etc was all balanced by Jaini C. - and the nutritionist at Top Shelf Feeds just followed her instructions of what my exact needs were and sourced from ZinPro products.
--
Sharon, April 2016

Courtenay, BC Canada

Elsa,

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sharon%20and%20Elsa

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=987




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