Date   

Re: Jiaogulan

Cleo Collins <cleo@...>
 

Maggie,

Thank you! Yes I searched and read those, it's just they all state "before" a meal ideally and I was not sure if this included hay given my have 24hrs a day access to hay this was a concern but if you say that it is ok and that all I do is increase the dose to compensate for their full stomachs then that's what I will do when/if the time comes that it is needed for Winnie 
--
Cleo

Dec 2016 - Kent, UK

Case History - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cleo%20and%20Winnie 


Re: Jiaogulan

Maggie
 

Hi Cleo,

Yes, you can still use J herb if you can't feed it on an empty stomach..  Using LeeAnn'e great wiki instructions on how to search the archives (https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/How-to-Search-the-Archives ) I found these to posts that will help you.

Here's a message from Dr Kellon (https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/151162 ) dosing Jiaogulan:  Gauge your Jiaogulan dose by how pink her gums and tongue are. When you are at an effective dose, there should be an obviously pinker color.


Start Jioagulan, ideally by syringe or hand feeding 20 minutes before meals 1 tsp twice a day or start with 2 teaspoons twice a day if must be fed with meals.  Make note of the color of his gums and tongue.  If not more pink by 24 hours after stopping Banamine, increase the dose. 

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response


Re: stevia, flavorings

 

My horse is hooked on Peppermint Oil extract! I put about a teaspoon into a sports water bottle of water. The top of these water bottles are just perfect for sprinkling the water/oil mix onto his soaked cubes. Shake and sprinkle, close the top. I found a good strong peppermint oil for sale at Walmart in the cake/candy making supplies (near the crafts area). the bottles are tiny so now I am switching to ordering large bottles on-line.

Also, many horses adore the taste of Apple Cider vinegar which is safe to feed.
--
- Bonnie 07-2016

Charles County, Maryland

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: Updated diet in Case History and a body picture for Majik

Lorna Cane
 

On Sat, Dec 31, 2016 at 11:06 pm, Shannon wrote:
I have updated Majik's case history on her hay/feed,

 Am I correct in thinking Majik is getting 18 pounds of hay, Himalayan salt block, and flax ?

Good that you've upped the hay.

How much flax?

When do you plan to dump the salt block and feed iodized salt?

Can you provide details of above in CH ?


--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002




Re: Pony suddenly won't eat beet pulp

Maggie
 

Hi Nerelie,

Yes, I saw the video.  Did he walked away from that bucket and never come back?  Is this consistent behavior?  Interestingly, my nonIR/nonPPID horse does this very behavior on a rare occasion.  Usually he licks his feed pan clean, but on these rare occasions he acts like there is poison in there.  Next feeding he's fine.

The depression and lack of appetite can be an and/or thing.  I would say mostly I see folks complaining about the lack of appetite for one thing or another. Frequently they will eat hay, but not supplements.  The APF, which would take you awhile to get, would be syringed in, so not a problem getting him to eat it.  Apple cider vinegar is safe.  One gram sugar in a cup:  http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/spices-and-herbs/217/2 


Did this start when he was on the 0.25mg?  Or not until you increased the dose to 0.5mg?  If he was OK on the 0.25mg, might think about decreasing the dose back to that for awhile again.

If only they could talk!

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA 
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response


Jiaogulan

Cleo Collins <cleo@...>
 

I still have a long way to go before I will know if this herb is needed for Winnie or not as I've only just started your diet advice with her and removed her from grass so I will see what improvement these two things give me but I did have a question about Jiaogulan in case I do need to use it in future.

All the information in the files section that relates to Jiaogulan specifically say to feed them on an empty stomach, I won't be able to do this given how my horses live. They have one big open barn (no stables) that they come into whenever they wish and the rest of the time they live on the track (as of today, before today they lived on grass also) the downside of this is that all their hay stations with slow feeder haynets are available to everyone 24/7 and so I cannot ensure that Winnie will have an empty stomach before I give her the Jiaogulan if she requires it. I therefore assume this will limit it's ability to do the job intended? If so then is there any way around this? I can't confine all 4 of them without food for hours it's just not practical with my set up the others do not need to fast for any medication so not sure what I would do here.

Again I have not got Winnie on this herb yet as I'm taking your advice and trying the diet changes and removing her from grass to see the impact on her movement along with getting bloods for IR done. 

I just want to be prepared for how I would go about feeding this if this herb is something you might advise I use in future. 



--
Cleo

Dec 2016 - Kent, UK

Case History - https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cleo%20and%20Winnie 


Re: Rinsing hay to reduce IRON

 

Good, sounds like it would be worth doing. Yes, I rinse ALL of Mouse's hay. He lives here at home, I'm retired so I rinse his hay in multiple batches each day. My teff hay has a low sugar/starch content and high iron. Additionally this teff hay did develop some dust after sitting in my well ventilated hay loft. It had a pretty high moisture content (per hay analysis) swhen baled so the "dust" is no doubt actually mold spores. Just another lesson learned about what to look for when doing a hay analysis. Since I have several more months worth of this hay I guess I could send a rinsed/dried sample off for micro-mineral testing then rebalance his diet. May be able to reduce the minerals being added to balance the iron.

So all the teff hay gets well rinsed. Mouse does no coughing as long as I rinse this hay. Mouse his heavey on top of everything else!
--
- Bonnie 07-2016

Charles County, Maryland

Mouse Case History, Photo Album


Re: Pony suddenly won't eat beet pulp

Nerelie Waddell
 

Hi Maggie,

The thing is, he isn't depressed or lethargic and is still hungry - he's just decided beet is evil??!! So ill it confident that if even be able to get any other supplements into him right now! Obviously I can't use molasses, is apple cider vinegar safe for these guys? It's just really odd! In case you miss it, I added a link to a video of him picking at his feed tonight 


https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ar9WL4Xwf9uoileUqSTVtcOcisgX


Thank you for your kind words - he really is the most adorable little dude and brings me much joy! He has also turned out to be  good little lead rein pony for all my friends kids when they come to visit! 

--
Nerelie

December 2016 Victoria, Australia

Acorn's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nerelie%20and%20Acorn

Acorn's Photo Album https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=2209  

Ollie's Photo Album https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=2353&p=Created,,,20,1,0,0 

Ollie's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nerelie%20and%20Ollie 


Re: Pony suddenly won't eat beet pulp

Nerelie Waddell
 

He is still eating his hay luckily as he has no grass in his paddock - and he was desperately trying to eat a blade he could see through the gate tonight, so it's not as if he isn't hungry....

i took a video of him picking through the feed (I put a handful in the ground so you can see him fussing with it) 


https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ar9WL4Xwf9uoileUqSTVtcOcisgX



--
Nerelie

December 2016 Victoria, Australia

Acorn's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nerelie%20and%20Acorn

Acorn's Photo Album https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=2209  

Ollie's Photo Album https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=2353&p=Created,,,20,1,0,0 

Ollie's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nerelie%20and%20Ollie 


Re: Pony suddenly won't eat beet pulp

Maggie
 

Hi Nerelie,

It sounds like Acorn might be experiencing the "pergolide veil",(lack of appetite, depression) that some but not all horses experience when first starting on the drug.  I see where Pauline gave you some information about APF and the similar Aussie product here:   https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/203743  Were you able to get one of these products?  I can't speak specifically to the Aussie product, but we have found the APF to be very effective in avoiding the pergolide veil.

BTW, that little Acorn is pretty darn cute!  He is so lucky to have fallen into your care!

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA 
March 2011
EC moderator/Primary Response


Re: Pony suddenly won't eat beet pulp

Maxine McArthur
 

Hi Nerelle

A close friend of mine had a 22 year-old pony with PPID who would sometimes go off his bucket feed when she increased his dose of Prascend in the seasonal rise. She had a selection of feeds that she would try him with--beet pulp, maxi soy, lucerne chaff, with and without linseed/salt, and in various combinations. She used to say that after 4-5 days post-increase he would start eating again and, like you, often found he preferred plain chaff. He would always eat hay or grass, so she didn't stress too much about it. Is Acorn still eating his hay or has he gone off everything? 

Hope he feels better soon.

--

Maxine and Indy

Canberra, Australia 2010

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933



Re: My beautiful Omar is gone

Lesley Fraser
 

Yes, it looks like the site has had a bit of a hiccup, but it's always good to hear such kind words - thank you Donna.

 
Lesley & over the bridge Omar

11-2012

Norfolk, UK



Pony suddenly won't eat beet pulp

Nerelie Waddell
 

So, since I started Acorn on Prascend (did 4 days at 0.25mg and am currently on 0.5mg), he suddenly wouldn't eat. At first I thought it was the linseed I had just started adding, so I stopped that. Still unhappy. So I took all supplements out and just gave him beet and Lucerne chaff (this is what he has been on for 18 months with no problems), still wouldn't eat. He isn't depressed, and is looking for food, but acts as though there is something I have put in that tastes funny - he picks at it, tosses around spits it out and curls his lip. Finally tonight in frustration I gave him just Lucerne chaff and lo and behold he ate it - so it's the beet. Has anyone experiences this? It's almost like when you take a medication that makes everything taste metallic?
--
Nerelie

December 2016 Victoria, Australia

Acorn's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nerelie%20and%20Acorn

Acorn's Photo Album https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=2209  

Ollie's Photo Album https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=2353&p=Created,,,20,1,0,0 

Ollie's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Nerelie%20and%20Ollie 


Updated diet in Case History and a body picture for Majik

Shannon
 

I have updated Majik's case history on her hay/feed, and I have added a body shot picture about 7 days after the new diet began.  I already see quite an improvement.  They increased her hay (no charge after all), and it may allow me to decrease the feed.  Just enough to add needed supplements.  I am still waiting to hear back on the hay analysis.  I will be doing my own per ECIR guidelines as soon as I can afford it.  (No income at all right now.)
--
Shannon and Majik (IR) and Rafiq (PPID/IR, over the rainbow bridge)
Houston 2009

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Shannon%20and%20Majik%20and%20Rafiq

Majik's Photo Album

Rafiq's Photo Album


Re: Pain relief for chronic laminitis

Pauline <takarri@...>
 
Edited


Hi Jade,

 

 Here is a guide to help wean her off the bute:

Start: 10 ml once a day

Day I to 3: 10ml every 36hrs

Day 4 to 6: 10ml every 48hrs

Day 7: 8ml every 48hrs

Day 8: 6ml every 48hrs

Day 9: 4ml every 48 hrs

Day 10: 2ml every 48hrs

Day 11: 1 ml ever 48 hrs

Day 12:  .5ml then stop

 

You can then start her on the Jiaogulan if you wanted. This is a good place to get it from. https://myhealthyhorse.com.au/product/jiao-gu-lan/

  

Keep in mind that Jiaogulan is not a bute substitute and if she has any abscesses brewing- this would help expediate them so she make look/feel worse before she gets better. Have a read of the files for further information,

 https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Pain%20Medication%20and%20Alternatives

 

Devils Claw may be a better option for her if you’re looking for pain relief, however  you can’t use the Jiaogulan and DC together.

 If you decide to go ahead with the Jiaogulan you would need to stop the ACP as well as they both have a vasodilating effect.


Another product you may want to consider is  Mov-Ease  http://balancedequine.com.au/theshop/product/mov-ease-450-g.html   This can be used with J herb if needed.


--
 

Pauline

Geelong. Vic

Australia Aug 07

ECIR Mod/Primary Response

http://tinyurl.com/7qbdyas


Message Posting Etiquette - Keeping ECIR User Friendly, Sunday, 1 January 2017 #cal-notice

main@ECIR.groups.io Calendar <noreply@...>
 

Message Posting Etiquette - Keeping ECIR User Friendly

When:
Sunday, 1 January 2017

Description:

This is a high volume list that can be difficult to follow. Help make it easier for everyone by following the Message Posting Guidelines below:
 
1) READ the Start Here Documents.  Unless you are in an emergency situation, before posting in the messages, please read the documents you were sent upon joining.  They are designed to speed you through the set up process so we can help you help your equine in the most efficient way possible. 
2) Check the Wiki for "How To" Pages (and more).  The ECIR has lots of information and finding your way around can be tricky. The Wiki is the place to start. 

3) Sign your posts. This is a very large group.  Whenever posting a message, identify yourself and your equine by using your full ECIR Signature with your first name, location, the date you joined and the link to your Case History folder and Photo Album. The volunteers need all this information to provide quality responses and perhaps suggestions for local support, vendors, vets, hoof care, etc. Go here for directions on how to make and save your ECIR Signature
 
4) Be clear in your posts. If you need to quote a line from a message: BEFORE you hit the Reply button highlight the text you want quoted, then hit Reply.  The highlighted portion will appear as quote in your message. 
 
5)  Try not to hijack threads.  Start a New Message to discuss issues not covered by the subject line.    
 
6) Don't immediately re-post.  Give “missing” posts a few hours before reposting. For unanswered messages, be patient, a lack of response is not personal or a reflection on you in any way. With so many posts some do get missed. Unless in an emergency situation, wait roughly 48 hours before re-posting and edit the subject line with "2nd Post". 
 
7) Off-topic but horse-related discussions: ECHorsekeeping provides a place to discuss issues involving non-PPID/IR horses, general horse keeping practices, other equine health issues, alternative therapies and other equine related philosophical debates.

 
Thank you for your cooperation.
 
- Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Team of the Equine Cushings List


Re: Floss Blood Work

Tori & Floss
 

Thanks for all your replies :-)

I have spoken to the vet twice and he basically read out to me the above plus told me that he did not know where to send a blood sample to be tested for Leptin.

He does his blood test in house and the results he sent back where typed on a piece of Letterhead and said what I copied above The vet wrote * In-house Glucose test carried out on Accu-check Performa Unit and Glucose Score is 5.5mmol/l on 22/12/2016.

The normal range Glucose for Equine is 0.56 - 38.85mmol/l so Floss is within low to normal range*

There is no formal report at all and no chance of getting one.

I'm beginning to think more and more the vets around here have no clue :-(

I will download and copy off exactly what is needed and ring another vet.

Thanks again!

Tori

December, 2016

Adelaide Australia

Case History  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Tori%20and%20Floss  


Re: I fed zinc instead of calcium/best place to buy calcium

Patty
 

I have not done any bloodwork. I cannot afford it at this time.  He is no longer on Remission - only ca carbonate, zinc, and copper were recommended by balancer from hay analysis.  Hope this is correct, because I always thought Remission helped him.  No longer on TC 30%.

I cannot update CH on my own. I sent updates to LeeAnne before Christmas, but haven't heard from her.  Was waiting till after holidays to contact her again.  I don't have emergencies, so I feel I can wait till after holidays.  Unfortunately, I hit send before I finished all my updates, so don't want to be too much a bother to LeeAnne.  I am very thankful for all her help and trying not to be too difficult. 

I did briefly look at gram scales and if I can find an inexpensive one that weighs small enough amount, I should be able to get one. 

This is what was recommended to give him:

"Between 7.5 to 10  grams of elemental calcium
200 mg of zinc ( .9 grams of poly zinc 22%)

80 mg of copper ( .6 grams of poly copper 12.7%)"


--
Patty

Sept 2016

Kernersville, NC

Rated G Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Patty%20and%20Rated%20G

Rated G Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1908







Re: banamine for laminitic pain

 

Welcome to the list! I am glad you are here, so can be part of this conversation about Jesse.

Banamine is licensed for once-daily use; there are cases for giving banamine more frequently, such as during colic episodes to help with the effects of endotoxemia, but this is never more than a day or two. There are studies where flunixin is used at higher doses, and for a more prolonged period, but it is quite a risk.

I appreciate you are trying to do the best you can for Jesse, as are we all. As long as Jesse doesn't want to give up, and LJ doesn't want to give up, we will all keep trying. As LeeAnne says, finding the triggers is dependent on more details.

Thanks for joining!

--

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin (over the bridge) ,Maggie,Gypsy

BC 09
ECIR mod/support

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Jaini%20and%20Merlin-Maggie-Gypsy




Re: I fed zinc instead of calcium/best place to buy calcium

Lorna Cane
 

Patty, I don't see any bloodwork in the CH.Is it available, or maybe you haven't done any testing?

>> Hopefully finances will change in a couple months.

If you're using the Remission for its magnesium, it would be less expensive to use mag ox from your feed store.


--

Lorna in Eastern Ontario, Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002



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